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Guild Wars 2: Mixing PvP with the PvE

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,610MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

During the recent Guild Wars 2 stress test, players were treated to an awesome PvP event that took place in PvE zones. If that doesn't just smack of awesome, not much else does! Check out our thoughts on the event and then let us know what you think.

The best part about the event was that it occurred in the PvE area of the game. This was really interesting, and I think it’s a taste of things to come. Well, I hope anyways. Up till just recently in the BEW, all PvP action has happened on separated maps, either in a structured PvP format, or the massive WvW. One thing I really enjoyed in other MMOs was the ability to engage in some PvP while running around in the PvE area. Now that I have actually seen it in action in Guild Wars 2, I want it back!

Read more of David North's Guild Wars 2: Mixing PvP with the PvE.

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I can’t remember what my branded form actually looked like, but here is a quick sketch to show the basic idea. This character use to be a Charr.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • gobossgoboss WroclawPosts: 3Member

    Anet suprised us with many fun events in GW1 and I'm sure they will continue to do so in GW2 :) 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Gah I still haven't had a chance to participate in one of these events.

    Hopefully BWE3.

    I do like the idea of structured, objective driven PvP in the PvE world when tied to a big event like this. I hope these kinds of events are semi-regular once the game goes live.

    Was always one of my favorite times to be playing WoW was during the pre-expansion world events or pre-major patch events.

    Sadly, very under utilized by Blizzard - hopefully not the case with Arena net.

  • frogtownfrogtown Cedar Rapids, IAPosts: 59Member

    I missed the stress test, but the PvP event sounds like it was fun. And this is coming from somebody who doesn't PvP. I would like to see something like this in the coming BWE so I can eperience it first hand. Granted many will say this won't replace open world PvP.

  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,735Member Uncommon

    There were so many people complaining they can't pve without being bothered by this event even though it was only on 1 map so i doubt we will see it very ofthen after launch.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    Live events are always fun. PvP or PvE. Asherons Call was by far the best at this of any MMO I have played. It adds alot of "life" to the world.

  • cinoscinos LondonPosts: 963Member
    Originally posted by QSatu

    There were so many people complaining they can't pve without being bothered by this event even though it was only on 1 map so i doubt we will see it very ofthen after launch.

    I think with the giant dragon flying over head anyone should be able to tell when this event is about to start, so hopefully those who complained can go on one of the other many maps for the time being if they don't want to join in on the fun. :p

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    WTH people complained about this event?

    Goes to show can't please everyone all the time.. I hope they have more in store, but they can make the grand ones occur less often and maybe do a small scale one more often...

    loving the game so far...
  • barezzbarezz Granite City, ILPosts: 140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xstatic912
    WTH people complained about this event?

    Goes to show can't please everyone all the time.. I hope they have more in store, but they can make the grand ones occur less often and maybe do a small scale one more often...

    loving the game so far...

    Sure people complained, why would this surprise you?  PvP is a playstyle, and not everyone enjoys that playstyle.  There will be many players who will get upset if the zone they are trying to quest in becomes a massive PvP zone because they have zero interest in PvP.  I'm not sure why the attitude and idea that "if players just tried PvP they would LOVE it" persists.  I think it is safe to assume that most player have tried PvP in some form, at least enough to make an educated decision on their preferences.  Think of a food that you hate, that you know you hate the taste of.  Will forcing yourself to eat it make you like it?  probably not.

     

    Let's imagine that there was a dragon that would fly around zones and make your character sit in an inn and roleplay.  Or craft.  If you don't like those activities, those playstyles, it would not be fun.  Just being told to avoid the magic RP dragon zones for a bit would probably annoy you a bit.

    If that is the direction Guildwars 2 wants to go, fine that's their call.

  • jakinjakin somewhere, ONPosts: 243Member Common
    Originally posted by barezz

    Sure people complained, why would this surprise you?  PvP is a playstyle, and not everyone enjoys that playstyle.  There will be many players who will get upset if the zone they are trying to quest in becomes a massive PvP zone because they have zero interest in PvP.  I'm not sure why the attitude and idea that "if players just tried PvP they would LOVE it" persists.  I think it is safe to assume that most player have tried PvP in some form, at least enough to make an educated decision on their preferences.  Think of a food that you hate, that you know you hate the taste of.  Will forcing yourself to eat it make you like it?  probably not.

     Let's imagine that there was a dragon that would fly around zones and make your character sit in an inn and roleplay.  Or craft.  If you don't like those activities, those playstyles, it would not be fun.  Just being told to avoid the magic RP dragon zones for a bit would probably annoy you a bit.

    If that is the direction Guildwars 2 wants to go, fine that's their call.

    Here's the thing I don't get - how is this event different from a PvE open-world raid?

     

    According to the article it was "several" players that were transformed.  Not dozens, not hundreds, but a few players were given inflated stats, hitpoints, and damage abilities.  The rest of the zone was normal players tasked with gathering together and killing the big bad guys.  In what way is this a "massive PvP zone"?

     

    It sounds like this is a cooperative event where the role of the boss mob is taken on by other players (similar to older MMOs where GMs would fill the role of a boss in the open world).  The only difference I can see is that the bad guy won't be limited to scripted responses and may (depending on the player) actually act somewhat intelligently.  For a population that enjoys large-scale, epic, dynamic, challenging fights (presumably the PvE audience of GW2) - why in the world would this be a source of complaint?

  • Well on my server it was like 80% of us turned.  I found it confusing - but a lot of that was because I'd never been past the end of the tutorial in the Charr area (saving it for launch).  I also rarely enjoy jumping into someone else's body (in a way it was like session play in LOTRO).

     

    That said many people had a blast and that's great.  Content for everyone!  It's absolutely amazing that  Guild Wars 2 is thinking of all kinds of players. 

  • VagabondLifeVagabondLife Grand Junction, COPosts: 91Member

    It started with just a few, then as people died/were killed, they were converted until almost everyone was corrupted.....lots of fun!

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member

    Every new MMO that comes out has a pretty heavy hype-train behind it, but this is the first time I have actually felt like there is no way it could possibly be as awesome as people are making it sound.  If ArenaNet had PVE area events like this in addition to all of the other PVP stuff that is going on, it would just be ridiculously cool.  The closest thing that comes to mind is the zombie and invasion events that happened in WoW leading up to the Wrath of the Lich King.  Every time I went into town to use the auction house I had to dodge player-controlled zombies trying to infect and kill everyone they could.  It was a pain in the butt, but also pretty damn fun.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • CursedseiCursedsei Clarkston, MIPosts: 1,012Member

    I've ended up missing this event both times it has happened.

    I'll say this though, I have participated in the similarly styled Zombie event that occurred to hype up Wrath of the Lich King.

     

    People hate these events because it disrupts everything. You had people who intentionally got themselves infected just so they could "troll" the starting areas, and having several lvl 70 zombies killing all the NPCs and such in a Lvl 10 levelling zone is a dick move when that is all they are doing. If it isn't handled well, there will be people that just aren't going to enjoy it.

    As for me? I was a paladin, I LOVED the event. It let me flex my Undead-specialty slaying abilities. I was one of the people who'd actually go down to said starter zones and kill off the infected. And if I saw some lvl 70 waiting around there with the infection disease waiting to die, I'd cleanse them. They'd get ticked off of course because they wanted to become a zombie so they could kill the npcs, but that was far outweighed by the thanks of those who just wanted to level their alts or first characters.

     

    GW2 though, doesn't necessarily have to worry about "overleveling" NPCs in a zone. You're scaled down to a reasonable point in that area, and should these events occur in and past the release, I'd expect that when you are turned into one of the Crystal beasts, your level is adjusted to be fair in regards to the zone you are in. That solves a big issue from why people hate these events in WoW. They actually have a chance to fight back.

    I do see an issue in that once you are turned, you stay turned. Some people may wish to just not be turned or for a way to change back. Again I didn't play the events, but an option to revert back to normal, even if it means having to leave the area, would be nice. If they are wanting to avoid someone abusing this by switching back and forth to stay normal, they could perhaps create a "debuff" that changes you as soon as you enter a zone where the battles are taking place.

    Another issue is, if they do use this event post-release, is the frequency. It shouldn't occur a lot. People may wish that it does, but you have to make sure these kind of events don't intrude too heavily on other players. Perhaps it goes on once a month, at most a week or so each month, with it striking random areas every few hours. I'd think that would be a reasonable time both for those wanting to participate in it, and for those who wish to avoid it.

     

    That said, I do love these kind of events. It's like a zombie outbreak. You gotta last for as long as you can, either until you die or until you find a way to stop it. And once you're "bitten" and become one of them, you stay them until its all over. I'm a rather casual PvPer, but again I love these kinds of events.

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    I have not participated in any beta testing, but I have watched several videos and noticed how pve and pvp seem to blend together. After reading this article and watching the videos, I couldn't be more excited about what I am seeing, and really the people complaining are the " give me something free " culture. It's way more interesting fighting in pve and not just worrying about the ai, but also the threat of an enemy ambush at any given point in time at any given place, can this get any better? I'm stoked for this game and the comradery that will be built due to the nature of GW2, this is going to be a blast.
  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    This may have made my mind up for me, that sounds very fun.

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by Cursedsei

    As for me? I was a paladin, I LOVED the event. It let me flex my Undead-specialty slaying abilities. I was one of the people who'd actually go down to said starter zones and kill off the infected. And if I saw some lvl 70 waiting around there with the infection disease waiting to die, I'd cleanse them. They'd get ticked off of course because they wanted to become a zombie so they could kill the npcs, but that was far outweighed by the thanks of those who just wanted to level their alts or first characters.

    You are a gamer after my own heart.  I always save my wrath for the jerks that are killing lowbies, important NPCs, or camping.  Seriously, cleansing the players that are trying to kill friendly NPCs is frigging golden.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by Rockniss
    I have not participated in any beta testing, but I have watched several videos and noticed how pve and pvp seem to blend together. After reading this article and watching the videos, I couldn't be more excited about what I am seeing, and really the people complaining are the " give me something free " culture. It's way more interesting fighting in pve and not just worrying about the ai, but also the threat of an enemy ambush at any given point in time at any given place, can this get any better? I'm stoked for this game and the comradery that will be built due to the nature of GW2, this is going to be a blast.

    I completely agree.  Questing gets boring pretty fast, but occasional enemy players showing up keeps you on your toes and makes it fun, as long as there is something that discourages lowbie killing so you can at least fight back.  If not, then you can always jump on your high level PVP geared alt to deliver an attitude adjustment.  I almost always keep one logged near my lowbies for that reason. 

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • SebberSebber KoldingPosts: 221Member
    Here's the thing I don't get - how is this event different from a PvE open-world raid?

     

    According to the article it was "several" players that were transformed.  Not dozens, not hundreds, but a few players were given inflated stats, hitpoints, and damage abilities.  The rest of the zone was normal players tasked with gathering together and killing the big bad guys.  In what way is this a "massive PvP zone"?

     

    It sounds like this is a cooperative event where the role of the boss mob is taken on by other players (similar to older MMOs where GMs would fill the role of a boss in the open world).  The only difference I can see is that the bad guy won't be limited to scripted responses and may (depending on the player) actually act somewhat intelligently.  For a population that enjoys large-scale, epic, dynamic, challenging fights (presumably the PvE audience of GW2) - why in the world would this be a source of complaint?

    60-90 % of the population at the end were transformed.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon

    Ya I really loved the event. I hope there is lots of them come release.

     


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    OK easy fix to the me generation players that didn't like this. As said Dragon comes into frame a pop up says join this or leave now.

  • KaezKaez Nepean, ONPosts: 80Member
    If you want only to PvE then you might be playing the wrong game. Just sayin' ;)
  • ButeoRegalisButeoRegalis Tijeras, NMPosts: 505Member Uncommon

    How about a player-controlled "world boss"? In a zone one or a few players get a pop-up if they want to participate and take control of a boss. There could be certain goals set for this player, kill so many players, destroy some pumps, haystacks, while the rest of the population would try to kill the boss. Similar to DEs, the more people participate, the stronger the boss gets, more hom more and better skills.

    About the lore problem of open worls PvP, I would say you could always choose to become a brigand. Something like (I think Tera's?) outlaw system.

    In that case I would say we need a split of PvE and PvP worlds, though. Or, add a flagging mechanism, where only flagged players could be attacked. Maybe give a small bonus to entice people to flag themselves.

    image

  • aslan132aslan132 Tampa, FLPosts: 378Member Uncommon

    On the PVP side of it. I think it was great fun, and extremely well executed. As soon as i found out i could become "branded" i did so. You actually got deflated stats not inflated. Your skills were replaced with new ones, you did less damage as your own character, and had much less HP. It was more taking on the role of a normal mob, not a boss type mob. Players still had a huge advantage, including some hero NPCs like Rytlok that were invincible and could swipe 20 branded with a single swing. 

     

    On the PVE side, theres absolutely nothing wrong with a single zone being put in a temporary PVP state. The greatest thing about GW2 is that the game is HUGE. There are plenty of other zones to explore, even if youre just starting out, you can use any of the 5 races starting areas. The idea that a player "questing" couldnt be bothered to leave the zone for an hour is ludicrous. Mainly because there are no quests in the game, but more importantly the non-linear design of the game, which allows you to go to any zone at any time and never be penalized. In fact you will be rewarded more for your exploration.

     

    Anyone who had an issue with this event needs to take a step back and breathe. Even if it makes it to live, it will be very infrequent im sure, maybe a holiday type thing once or twice a year. And the impact on your gameplay is only as large as you allow it to be, get over yourself.

     
  • VelocinoxVelocinox Old Folks Home, CAPosts: 811Member Uncommon

    Actually I don't think the participate or leave idea is entirely necessary. They already have an overflow system in place, so they have the ability to spawn extra copy zones.

    So make an event district (district was a term for it used in GW1) and a normal district. Players that want the event go to the event district and those that want to finish that particular zone go to the normal district.

    This would also show Anet which of their events are drawing the most participants (not forcing them) and provide information on making future events.

    I played it and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Unfortunately I got stuck with a pretty terrible branded and died quickly. So it was zerg or get owned over and over, so i swapped back to my character and stood with the few against the hordes of branded, and THAT was fun. they outnumbered us 10:1 or better. We had to stick together and really plan out our spawn captures. It was tough.

    By the end though so many people wanted to be branded that it was about 500+ branded vs just 20 players. I thought it was fun being so outnumbered, but thats when I starting hearing the complaints. *shrug* whatever, its just a game.

     

    'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


    When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.


    No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.


    How to become a millionaire:
    Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    I actually ignored the game during the times when they had the open PvP events, not my thing. I don't mind if they have them for those that like it though, but if they do, it shouldn't be cross-server. That way people like me who aren't interested can just visit another server for a few hours until the event is over. There, everyone is happy.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

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