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Gear is actually dictating your level...

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

 

Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

 

But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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Comments

  • FaynthFaynth Neunkirchen-SeelscheidPosts: 237Member

    i have a QL 8 Hammer and a ql 1 shotgun. rest is a mix of 3 -8.

    What level am i?

  • plescureplescure leicesterPosts: 370Member Uncommon

    which is why i think an auction house in this game is a bad idea. as your lvl is dictated by gear, you can buy your way into skipping zones of the game. yes there is the skill point issue but unless you going for a double build there seems to be a fair surplus of SP's after the 1st zone.

     

    Buying gear in this game is the equivalent of buying yourself to ,say, lvl 40 in a traditional MMO

    If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by plescure

    which is why i think an auction house in this game is a bad idea. as your lvl is dictated by gear, you can buy your way into skipping zones of the game. yes there is the skill point issue but unless you going for a double build there seems to be a fair surplus of SP's after the 1st zone.

     

    Buying gear in this game is the equivalent of buying yourself to ,say, lvl 40 in a traditional MMO

    If you are not going for a dual skill build then you are gimping your character, the extra skill points you have left over are left over because you aren't levelling a second weapon skill.

    image
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.   Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared.  But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.

    This argument is getting tired.

    If it doesn't do everything that levels do in other games, then it's not levels.

    For instance, in WoW's end game, your power level is determined by your gear. That isn't level, that's how powerful your gear is. This is how TSW works (according to your post).

    Your Level in WoW determines whether or not you can walk into that raid to get more gear. TSW doesn't do this. You'll probably need help with that instance in TSW, but you're not stopped from walking in or completing the content.

    It is a progression system, but it's not "Levels".

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • VeldekarVeldekar Greeneville, TNPosts: 220Member

    Every (video) game I've played since 1975 has had some form of progression either through "levels" or some other form of "score" to achieve progression. TSW is just doing it a slightly different way.

  • BlackbrrdBlackbrrd KongsbergPosts: 811Member

    You call it leveling, Funcom called it vertical progression.

     

    Why did they bother with this? Well, I think they did it because the progression is a lot less linear than a regular game. I handled some mobs with mostly QL2 gear yesterday, but my skills where at Rank 4. Fights took some time, but I could beat them. This was fighting some mobs that drop QL4 and QL5 gear, so maybe their level was 5? In which case, I could beat them at level 2? This doesn't sound like how a traditonal level based game works and is probably the reason why they don't have any levels anywhere in the game.

     

    Btw, do you call it leveling when you get better gear in games like WoW after reaching level 85 as well or is that just getting better gear? ;)

     

    Anyway, I really like the progression in TSW works and I love tinkering with my builds as I go. There are soooo many options, which is really fun. Instead of just going on auto you can make your own build that is suited to your playstyle. :)

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

     

    Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

     

    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.

    So basically instead of removing the endless gear treadmill they actually found a way of making the gear treadmill worse?! didn't think that was possible but okay.

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member
    Originally posted by SlickShoes
    Originally posted by plescure

    which is why i think an auction house in this game is a bad idea. as your lvl is dictated by gear, you can buy your way into skipping zones of the game. yes there is the skill point issue but unless you going for a double build there seems to be a fair surplus of SP's after the 1st zone.

     

    Buying gear in this game is the equivalent of buying yourself to ,say, lvl 40 in a traditional MMO

    If you are not going for a dual skill build then you are gimping your character, the extra skill points you have left over are left over because you aren't levelling a second weapon skill.

    I  went straight to transylvania once I got my shotgun up to 10.  I only did a  few missions in Egypt but became pissed off when I found out one of the investigation missions was bugged. Once there AP and SP rained down on me like gold and diamonds.  Did you know that a good chunk of the missions give 500 -1 million xp each  and the mobs give 2-10k xp each?  That is buttloads of ap

    BOOYAKA!

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

     

    Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

     

    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.

    There is a progression system in the game in which as you progress thru the game, going from zone to zone you gain better gear from your activies as a way of rewarding you with better gear for the harder nature of the content you do (weither that be from having to deal with harder mobs, or complex puzzles, or such.). Most leveling systems like wow and such are more used as a method to yes determine where you can go, what gear you can wear (this is important as this makes the arguement of gear working as form of leveling somewhat wrong.), and also as a method of allocating abilties to the layer at fixed intervals of play. Where as progression which is what the gear based system in tsw is, just is there for the sake of gauging the power comparison of your character to another creature alone, and so i would say level based systems as above are much more complex in they proform several roles in the ggame, while a gear progression system is there only to be a gauge to measure the difficulty of content. At best you could call the system in tsw a freeform progression systeem as you determine how fast you gain access to gear, many powers, and content based on how you focus your sp/ap spending in the game, whiel in leveling systems it is pre-determined by the devs completelywith only the pace of leveling from one level to the next being at your choice.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,936Member Uncommon

    Does gear have requirements that need to be met before they can be equipped?


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    Does gear have requirements that need to be met before they can be equipped?

    Yep, need to raise your skill points up to use weapons at a higher tier.

    BOOYAKA!

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    whats the point in this thread...

     

     

  • ZhauricZhauric Houston, TXPosts: 293Member
    Originally posted by Blackbrrd

     

    Btw, do you call it leveling when you get better gear in games like WoW after reaching level 85 as well or is that just getting better gear? ;)

    Yes, I would. Leveling is progression from one tier to the next. WoW's handling of gear at endgame is exactly that as well. The gear has levels after all. So yes, I would say that is just another system of leveling. You sure as heck can't go to certain raids without the appropriate level of gear. 

    So basically what the OP stated is correct but it's just another approach to it. Nothing wrong with it if you ask me. I think it is pretty creative on Funcom's part so kudos on trying a different approach. Or at least a different direction down a similar path. Sometimes it's about how you paint the picture for those looking at it. They can always see something different than your intention...so to speak.  

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

     

    Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

     

    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.

    So basically instead of removing the endless gear treadmill they actually found a way of making the gear treadmill worse?! didn't think that was possible but okay.

    Except they also are going to give you how many ways of gaining that better gear compared to other treadmills? I mean most games you have pvp, crafting maybe for high end gear.), and raiding, while in tsw it looks like we will have all that plus instances, questing, world boss raiding, and faction items as well. To me they did away with one of the issues for many gamers which is the leveling in the game to get to end game grinding content, while alsso expanding on what you can do to gain more/better gear.

  • OrphesOrphes TrePosts: 3,048Member
    Originally posted by plescure

    which is why i think an auction house in this game is a bad idea. as your lvl is dictated by gear, you can buy your way into skipping zones of the game. yes there is the skill point issue but unless you going for a double build there seems to be a fair surplus of SP's after the 1st zone.

     

    Buying gear in this game is the equivalent of buying yourself to ,say, lvl 40 in a traditional MMO

    How come people buy a game for $50 and then choose to skip half of the game?

    Be it that it have its own "feeling" to be able to slaughter through mobs, it can be fun, but even so you are playing the content of the game.

    Skipping to the end, well then you simply did not play the game you bought.

     

    So buy your way to skipping zones, but why? Because one can?

    I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
    "You have the right not to be killed"

  • plescureplescure leicesterPosts: 370Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Orphes
    Originally posted by plescure

    which is why i think an auction house in this game is a bad idea. as your lvl is dictated by gear, you can buy your way into skipping zones of the game. yes there is the skill point issue but unless you going for a double build there seems to be a fair surplus of SP's after the 1st zone.

     

    Buying gear in this game is the equivalent of buying yourself to ,say, lvl 40 in a traditional MMO

    How come people buy a game for $50 and then choose to skip half of the game?

    Be it that it have its own "feeling" to be able to slaughter through mobs, it can be fun, but even so you are playing the content of the game.

    Skipping to the end, well then you simply did not play the game you bought.

     

    So buy your way to skipping zones, but why? Because one can?

    i agree. i wouldnt want to buy my way to the end of a game for sure.

     

    however modern days mmo's are founded on sense of competition between players (wow's fault ofc) for a lot of people its all about getting to the end quicker than every one else irrelvant of wether your missing half the content in a game you just spent £40 on.

    If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

     

     

    Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

     

    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.



    This argument is getting tired.

    If it doesn't do everything that levels do in other games, then it's not levels.

    For instance, in WoW's end game, your power level is determined by your gear. That isn't level, that's how powerful your gear is. This is how TSW works (according to your post).

    Your Level in WoW determines whether or not you can walk into that raid to get more gear. TSW doesn't do this. You'll probably need help with that instance in TSW, but you're not stopped from walking in or completing the content.

    It is a progression system, but it's not "Levels".

     


    A progression system is levels.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member

    People may call this "system" whatever they want, but it damn well feels pretty much the same as levels in other games, and it certainly was a dissapointment as I expected this game to have vastly different kind of a system.

     

    It's not a gamebreaker at all, just feels like I got promised something else/new, but ended up with the same stuff in different wrapping (considering this feature). It feels like the old system disguised as something else, the difference is that gear and levels are now combined into one, the result is very similar to the basic formulae, just imagine any basic mmorpg where you could actually equip/unequip levels.

     

    Good thing is, if a friend decides to try the game later, you can equip lower level for your self and go play with the friend without being overpowered by default / by level.

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by toddze
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.  

     

     

    Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared. 

     

    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.



    This argument is getting tired.

    If it doesn't do everything that levels do in other games, then it's not levels.

    For instance, in WoW's end game, your power level is determined by your gear. That isn't level, that's how powerful your gear is. This is how TSW works (according to your post).

    Your Level in WoW determines whether or not you can walk into that raid to get more gear. TSW doesn't do this. You'll probably need help with that instance in TSW, but you're not stopped from walking in or completing the content.

    It is a progression system, but it's not "Levels".

     


    A progression system is levels.

     

    I disagree, if the game would only have the ability unlocking/progression system but no QL system, it would still have progression but it would not feel like there's levels in the game. The QL system feels like there's concrete levels from 1 to 10, the ability progression has nothing to do with it.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    But you're kitted out in QL10 roughly half way through the quest content.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon

    It reminds me of gearscore. You don't have x minimum level of gear? Get outta here, scrub.

     

    I think the only way that I've seen people say this game has levels is by saying you need a certain number of skill points to wear gear. That does sound a lot like levels. It's just that they are spread out over ~220 skill points instead of 60 (or whatever the level cap is in a standard MMORPG these days).

     

    In WoW, you gain levels and gear has level requirements.

     

    In TSW, you gain skill points and gear has skillpoint requirements.

     

    That's as close as I can get to saying the game has a sort of level system in place. But really, who cares? You just have to decide if you like the system in place.

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by toddze
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
     
    It is a progression system, but it's not "Levels".

     


    A progression system is levels.

     

    I disagree, if the game would only have the ability unlocking/progression system but no QL system, it would still have progression but it would not feel like there's levels in the game. The QL system feels like there's concrete levels from 1 to 10, the ability progression has nothing to do with it.

    RPG of any shape of form has levels, it may not be so cut and dry that has a number assigned to it, but its still levels. A level-less game is a game like the sims. Developers may do a good job of disguising it, they do may do a bad job of disguising it, but none the less there is a level system.

    This argument that "insert game" doesnt have levels is an argument of posturing. Its basically fans acting like their turd doesnt stink. For some reason this argument has is some how justifacation that their game is better than other games because it doesnt have levels. Somehow admitting that it has levels is damnation for the game. Its all bogus, all MMORPGS are level based..... somehow, someway someshape. I am not ranting on you kuinn so please dont take it like that, as your response did not come off as arrogant as some posts that I have seen on this topic over the years.

    Last time I really got into this debate really hard was on FFXIV pre-launch, I was a huge fan, mainly because of XI. Other XIV fans were going around gloating that it wasnt going to have levels, they wore it as a badge, it made me sick reading that garbage. MMO's have levels, progression is levels. If it doesnt have levels I should be able to go into the game on day one and do anything I want, and be equal to anything a guy who has been playing for years can do. Zone based progression, gear based progression, level based progression, it doesnt matter its progression therfore its essentially levels, just not the old fashion cut and dry levels.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • CetraCetra SingaporePosts: 354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jesterftk

    i have a QL 8 Hammer and a ql 1 shotgun. rest is a mix of 3 -8.

    What level am i?

    can be taken as level 8 by yr highest QL. Because you need yr QL8 hammer to tackle the most current zone, dungeon and pvp. Switch to other weapons u are just level 1 like every other MMO with classes and levels except that you have the freedom to instant boost yr level up a few notches with your spare skill points. 

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by toddze

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus While there are no true levels, your gear is actually defining your level.       Not that this is a strange thing, as it is how games like WoW work in endgame, personally i think it might even be better this way for gear based power systems, You just cant go to a dungeon when undergeared.    But it is nonsense to say this game has no levels. Even worse, dont go to an area without the right level of gear, because the games becomes very hard and punishable by death for trying so.
    This argument is getting tired. If it doesn't do everything that levels do in other games, then it's not levels. For instance, in WoW's end game, your power level is determined by your gear. That isn't level, that's how powerful your gear is. This is how TSW works (according to your post). Your Level in WoW determines whether or not you can walk into that raid to get more gear. TSW doesn't do this. You'll probably need help with that instance in TSW, but you're not stopped from walking in or completing the content. It is a progression system, but it's not "Levels".  
    A progression system is levels.

    No. Levels are a form of progression system. Not all progression systems are levels.

    For instance, the gear a character gets in WoW, after reaching max level determines how powerful the character is, but it's not the character's "Level". The character's "Level" is 85. The "Level" determines what instances the character can walk in, how many points are available for the character's skill tree, and how far the character can progress in crafting. I'm reasonably sure that a character's gear doesn't stop a character from walking into any instances in TSW. I'm reasonably sure that a character's gear determines how many points a character can spend in the skill wheel. I'm also reasonably sure that a character's gear doesn't determine how far they can progress in crafting.

    So TSW certainly has a progression system, and there are certainly elements of the game that are similar to levels, but it's not levels. It's just not the same thing.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • BigRock411BigRock411 Barrington, ILPosts: 299Member

    There are a lot of dungeon groups who are doing gear checks...and often they are setting the requierment QL at or above what drops in the dungeon they are running...

    They want a super fast run, will skip all trash possible, and will probably run it again after.

    This doesnt mean you need QL 5 to run inferno...not even close, its just what they want to ensure a boringly easy run.

     

    Im not really sure why people so desperately want to find a level system in a game that has none.

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