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World of Warcraft: Can Old Be New Again?

124

Comments

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    I recently had a fancy to play again after a long break and got as far as installing, but was faced with the question - what is the point?

    Issues:

    I'm a 1 character pve man, so all the new questing content is meaningless.

    I will never return to the hardcore raiding scene, however this means i will never be competitive against a similar skilled player.
    And this is the nub of the matter, the game is entirely gear centric. Being casual means being 2nd tier in terms of competitive edge, I may have x skill and make up some of the gap between the max tier of gear available to me and top of the game, and beat some players with better gear, but in balance I will mostly have a poor experience where I will be beaten because I have a gear disadvantage.

    An interesting comparison I make is with gw1 - in that game I am a newbie in relative terms to the core player base and yet because it is not gear centric I can compete and have fun.

    It's a pity I would enjoy playing wow casually for a few months.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • IndolIndol O''Fallon, MOPosts: 189Member

    I honestly can't imagine why someone would still play world of warcraft.

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 984Member Uncommon

    Haven't even considered playing WoW again, pandas or no.  It's like an ex-girlfriend - there's a reason you broke up to begin with.  It's best to not go back.

  • KniknaxKniknax LeicesterPosts: 567Member Uncommon

    Mentoring: SOE added this to EQ2 years before Rift (and Scott Hartsman from Rift was overseeing EQ2 when it came in). Credit where credits due and all that.

    "When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright

  • MueslinatorMueslinator AugsburgPosts: 78Member

    One of the most telling things, from my perspective, is their 'Dragon Soul was the last content patch' and then just letting players alone for about one year with this 'one week worth of content'. MoP can be as fresh as mountain dew, as virginal as Mary before the Angel, as seducing as a succubus crossed with a t-bone-steak and a new GRR Martin novel.

     

    I still won't play it.

     

    Heck, my entire guild consists of players that did not even play Cataclysm. Yes, we had purchased it. And we judged it sucking in almost every aspect imaginable. Bu we liked playing WoW in earlier iterations, and every other MMO out there sucked at least as much (well, it did back then, now we have TSW!) so we decided to stay in WoW. It did have Goblins, which was just about its only redeeming factor for us. And it had some great, old content, right?

    So we founded a level stop guild, and redid Classic. Even though it was pathetically easy, and had practically nothing left to but a few old raids. But we dropped from initially over 1,500 members (awful to organize, since guild sizes are limited to 1,000 members) to about 200 that are still playing BC at the moment.

    But I may have made a 'mistake' and told them about TSW. They're in the process of seriously considering moving over as a whole. Only problem are our youngsters (under 15). I don't know if they will handle TSW well.

     

    Anyhow: I don't think it's a question of MoP alone can redeem WoW. WoW's success is as much a question of the over-all nimbus of 'Blizzard' mysticism as it just was a perfect storm at the time. Many people playing WoW are not really gamers. They know just WoW, and that's what they play. Heck, even in my guild, about half the members don't know ANY game outside WoW and Angry Birds. Maybe Farmville.

    And that tells you a lot about why WoW is still so high in subs, even if it is, from a gamer's perspective, crashing and burning. And that will lead to MoP selling like shortbread, and 'high profile' magazines giving out 90%+ ratings.

     

    By the by: If TSW scores lower than any Blizzard title ever, this will be my indication that those 'high profile' magazines really are off the rocker and on the Blizzard fan train. You know, I used to work for such a magazine, and the handling of such scores (and also the matter of acquiring test samples) prompted me tro leave the industry.

  • rox52rox52 Gatesville, TXPosts: 5Member

    It had a good run. Time to move on.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Being casual means being 2nd tier in terms of competitive edge, I may have x skill and make up some of the gap between the max tier of gear available to me and top of the game, and beat some players with better gear, but in balance I will mostly have a poor experience where I will be beaten because I have a gear disadvantage.

    If that bothers you, then you're not "casual". You're an unsuccessful hardcore player.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Being casual means being 2nd tier in terms of competitive edge, I may have x skill and make up some of the gap between the max tier of gear available to me and top of the game, and beat some players with better gear, but in balance I will mostly have a poor experience where I will be beaten because I have a gear disadvantage.

    If that bothers you, then you're not "casual". You're an unsuccessful hardcore player.

    try reading the post.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Heinz130Heinz130 sao pauloPosts: 227Member

    If wow want get the old glorious days back again the game need to implement want the players of nowdays want...

    1st - huge single server

    2nd - sandbox contents and features

    3rd - no class no lvls

    IF, wow can implement hose primary 3 things than hw can think in get back the joy sensation for the players...by the way,why is it so hard for blizzard to change those things with the monthly cap they have? Entropia Universe did it about 3 times since the game was released

    WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
    FH1942 best tanker for 4years
    Playing WWII OL for some years untill now
    many other for some months

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Heinz130

    If wow want get the old glorious days back again the game need to implement want the players of nowdays want...

    1st - huge single server

    2nd - sandbox contents and features

    3rd - no class no lvls

    IF, wow can implement hose primary 3 things than hw can think in get back the joy sensation for the players...by the way,why is it so hard for blizzard to change those things with the monthly cap they have? Entropia Universe did it about 3 times since the game was released

    I think your idea of "the players" is a very specific, small group of people.  

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Being casual means being 2nd tier in terms of competitive edge, I may have x skill and make up some of the gap between the max tier of gear available to me and top of the game, and beat some players with better gear, but in balance I will mostly have a poor experience where I will be beaten because I have a gear disadvantage.

    If that bothers you, then you're not "casual". You're an unsuccessful hardcore player.

    try reading the post.

    Read it, all I could see was the whining of someone who finds it impossible to align his expectations of being #1 with the reality of being a time-limited gamer.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Banquetto
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Being casual means being 2nd tier in terms of competitive edge, I may have x skill and make up some of the gap between the max tier of gear available to me and top of the game, and beat some players with better gear, but in balance I will mostly have a poor experience where I will be beaten because I have a gear disadvantage.

    If that bothers you, then you're not "casual". You're an unsuccessful hardcore player.

    try reading the post.

    Read it, all I could see was the whining of someone who finds it impossible to align his expectations of being #1 with the reality of being a time-limited gamer.

    I think his definition of casual has more to do with the amount of time one wishes to dedicate to a game; whereas your definition of casual vs. hardcore has more to do with one's desire to be competitive, min/max, or succeed at the highest level of the game.  These aren't mutually exclusive.  One can--and indeed many do--desire to be competitive, desire to participate in the highest levels of the game, enjoy min/maxing characters, and yet do not want to play for 3 hours a day.  

    Many players have hardcore approaches toward success in a game but also have, you know, a thing called life to worry about and, thus, a casual time commitment to the game.  

    I agree with Bladestrom in that no game's model for player success should be founded first and foremost upon the pure amount of hours one can put into the game.  Thankfully, many game developers seem to agree, and MMOs are slowly adjusting accordingly.    

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    His post is typical. He didn't understand the intent of the post or the ref to gw1. 2 omg you are a noob posts in effect.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • SilverbranchSilverbranch Warren, MIPosts: 192Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I think Blizz would have to totally revamp the game to get those old players back and I doubt Blizz really are interested in such major workover as long as they still have millions of players.

    Instead I think they are starting a bit on Wow 2, which frankly makes more sense than reworking a 9 year old game. 

    MMOs don´t lastforever, at least not with a massive amount of players but sequels might bring back the old fans whille keeping the current, and a Wow 2 would take at least 5 years to make so using your talented people for that instead of fixing up Wow have a lot more potential.

    Even if Wow did all the changes Bill suggests I still doubt it would keep being big for more than 5 years more. Wow 2 on the other hand have the potential to make Blizzard rich the next 10 years after launch.

    To the best of my knowledge that would be their "Titan" project, which has been underway for some time, which is where one would presume their core WoW talent went.

     

    People do what they practice, and practice what they do.  Blizz always recycles available lore.  And why wouldn't they?  It's not inherently bad to do so, and oftentimes makes good / practical sense.

     

    Still, if we take Blizz's past history and the name "Titan", is the direction to let us play in Sargeras' time, encountering / conquering / banishing various Demon races pre-Sarg-going-nuts-and-becoming-worse?

     

    Sounds provocative, and assuming my guess is accurate at all will undoubtably be heralded with some amazing trailers and marketing hype per The Blizz Marketting Machine, funded by your current sub-dollars and (used to be) mine.

     

    The trick here that's most important to you and me, the Gamer, is what will it REALLY be all about?  Will it REALLY be something new as a Gaming Platform?  Will it represent a stepping forward of the genre, a broadening of value for dollar spent in both the short and long term? 

     

    Will it actually provide Participation (ability to Participate) and Competition (ability to Compete) with others across the board, or will it continue to be stunted and shackled by the disease called "Redirect to The Grind for (x) Time . . . and someday you can actually play for real", a condition that feeds and maximizes Player Attenuation from each other and absolutely minimizes the player him/her self from having the relevant impact in challenges because of course it's all about the gear ground up through farming The Grind.

     

    Redirection to The Grind.  Look back on games you've played and ask yourselves if that wasn't a CORE problem with the game.  That The Grind, a mechanism you do need to some degree in any persitent virtual world, metastasized into a Cancer taking over vast swaths of content and game time as a slave master gating access to playing the game, and playing with others.

     

    Jerioca's view is probably much more accurate than not:

     

    Originally Posted by Jerioca:

     

    The thing that's killed WoW for me is all the recycling. I fully realise that the guys making these games have only so much time and so much resources but come on. With cataclysm not one single 'new' boss mechanic or special attack was new. Everything used had been introduced in Burning Crusade or Lich king already. The way they were combined may have been different but that was it. Even the majority of monster models were rehashes of previous ones.

     

    It got to be like comparing the rebranding of packets of toilet paper. The pictures on the plastic packaging may be completely different and all bright and shiney and new but you're still going to use the contents to do exactly the same thing as last time. They're still using the same 4 or 5 cave maps that we're in vanilla WoW for pities sake. 'Blizzard' and 'New content' just can't be justified in the same sentence.

     
     

    Wherever you go, there you are.

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Mist will add a new component, a new chapter, so yes wow can be new again. In this day though, there are other great options, like Rift, GW2,... I'm going to play and continue to play them all. If there something I don't like I just won't do it, for me raiding and instances don't cut it, for one of my good friends that's all he does. The mmo community is diverse, that's all it comes down to.
  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member

    As a PVP player who doesn't raid, what I would need from WoW is a way for players to achieve the best PVP gear without having to do the arena grind with a sub-par internet ping.  Every split second counts in arena and if your internet has a tendency to lag, then you might as well stop wasting your time.  Throw in the fact that my favorite class spec doesn't have much arena love and it is just not possible to fully pimp my gear.  I would like more open world PVP and for Blizz to remove the barriers to soloing up your gear.  Those barriers are why I finally left.  The mechanics are great.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    Unfortunately, making 'Old be New" would involve more being added and a fresh mix being brought in, and its just being dumbed down more and more making anything new lose taste quickly. Dumbing down the system only makes things that much less impressive.

  • zephyr88zephyr88 novi ligurePosts: 9Member

    I'd probably never return to wow cause the game has taken a step towards a different generation of gamers and that's a matter of fact: they said they thought about pandas back when they were designing tbc,but they tossed the idea away pretty soon and nowdays they give you no real reason of why they decided so at the time,while the point is indeed very simple: when the pandas idea came out someone probably stepped up saying "jesus this game is intended for a mature audience and/or for grown teens no way pandas will fit into that".

     what i'd like to just have back in the game is everything that was designed till ToC, and just to keeping up with that style would be something amazing. 

    The game went pretty much perfect till ToC times then it got ruined by changes. in a year and a half or even less we got so many changes to the game like it never happened for what? 7 years? at the time when things were going as intended with a peak of players hitting 12m they started to change everything cause they started thinking about titan and getting blizzard young (11-15 yo) fans would have assured future subs for titans. 

    What i miss from the "old version" of wow? pretty much everything. from the struggle for getting keys to open dungeon doors,to raid attunement,40 men raids where the very fact of making 39 ppl do the right thing at the right time was the main challenge along with some simple but very effective boss abilities. I miss the exploration,the "safety dance" tactic,the old tbc lfg tool with which i got to know so many people that im still in touch with even nowdays,cause people were caring about their server reputation,i miss the feel i got the first time i took a step into blackrock mountains or the first time i took a step into the dark portal while on the stairs of destiny hellfire's peninsula music was filling my ears with greatness.

    i miss the endless wiping on the first day of a boss release and how our ventrilo was just exploding when that badass went down,i miss those days when there was no difference in killing a boss 24.50 seconds earlier than another guild,but actually taking the very boss down was indeed a challenge itself and the difference between guild kills were in days or weeks for making the server ranks,not seconds.

    apart from this all i miss tarren mill attacks and world pvp as well,such epic battles and i do still remember every inch of terrain in my favourite places,i know alterac mountains map better than my own house i think.

    sorry for taking this long. this is just another post from the next nostalgic guy who knows for a fact things like these won't come back,not in wow not in another game: some people just don't understand that it wasnt only a matter of the game itself and how it changed,the real point is those were different times,nowdays everyone calls himself a geek or a hardcore or whatever and pretty much everyone plays something.

    the really bad thing about this all is the thought that 7 years or so of marvelous exquisite entertainment are gone forever leaving only memories behind and that just because a bunch of kids sold their playstation and went for the pc instead and with wow also.  

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Jerioca

    The thing that's killed WoW for me is all the recycling. I fully realise that the guys making these games have only so much time and so much resources but come on. With cataclysm not one single 'new' boss mechanic or special attack was new. Everything used had been introduced in Burning Crusade or Lich king already. The way they were combined may have been different but that was it. Even the majority of monster models were rehashes of previous ones.

    It got to be like comparing the rebranding of packets of toilet paper. The pictures on the plastic packaging may be completely different and all bright and shiney and new but you're still going to use the contents to do exactly the same thing as last time. They're still using the same 4 or 5 cave maps that we're in vanilla WoW for pities sake. 'Blizzard' and 'New content' just can't be justified in the same sentence.

    You obviously never raided Firelands.....literaly every single boss had unique mechanics and a new never used before model.

    Its enough to not like the game, I personally stopped playing around Nov, but many folks on this site really need to stop spewing with emotion without ever fact checking their statement.s...just to complain...this is esp true with posts concerning WoW...

  • XiskoXisko Palma de MallorcaPosts: 50Member

    Remember the days of my first attemp to Dead Mines... absolutely amazing feeling of success when i got out from the other side of the cave... I used to have very good moments in those days. Now is all about getting things the easy way, easy, and now. Wow is a kids game .period.

    All those wow clones are heading the same way.

    There´s a kind of gamer, forged in the UO days, EQ1, early vanilla wow... waiting for a changeling new MMORPG, until today thats not happening... we still waiting.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 530Member Uncommon

    Blizzard seems to take features from other games and make them suck.  For example transmog, they took perfectly awesome standard appearance tabs and made them so you can't change on the fly, have to be in town, made it cost money everytime you wanna change clothes, and limited the gear.

     

    MoP scenarios, they really should have not made these instanced, they should be occur in the open world.

     

    For all the talk of put the war back in warcraft, blah blah.  If you look at it there isn't really anything they are doing to encourage world PvP over what we have now.  Dailies out in the world, just like we have now.  World bosses, if the battles last 15 to 20 minutes and boss kill goes to faction that did most DPS then maybe, but if they are short fights like most boss fights it is basically who gets there first.  If they are taggable most people probably won't be arsed to screw with the other faction for no rewards + repair bills(unless dieing to a world boss doesn't incur durability damage).

     
  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    Not a chance. That train left in 2010 for me. They would have to revamp the game mechanics, game engine, and graphics for me to return.

    Or have my personal panda character voiced by Jack Black with James Hong as my father.

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Revamping wow wouldn't work for the game.. Blizz realize that even if they made wow 2, and it played the same way with maybe a change in combat mechanic its still gonna be compare to past wow success wise and I fear they can't duplicate that because the way mmo fans play mmo nowadays..

    To this day I still play and love Wow, and won't stop, I'll take a month or 2 off but I'll be coming back until they close the game down..

    I think they are in no rush to release or announce a new mmo because that would steal from there own product.. I'm sure they are watching the market and seeing were all these new releases are failing, be it marketing, not getting the mmo feel right, not enough polish etc...

    No mmo can return to there glory days, because it seem in every mmo after an xpac is release and stuff change a bit from how they were, person keep claiming the old style was better.. The only thing I would keep from vanilla wow days are the unrestricted way things were, to this day I can't get why there is a weekly cap on completing a raid, on how much honor points I can really for the week etc.. who cares how fast one wanna consume content...


    ~~ Peace ~~
  • KalestonKaleston TrinecPosts: 173Member

    I don't think we can go back to old wow times. It's not really a game's fault. It's just we are somewhere different, much more experienced players and if somebody gave us WoW of old ages, we would think they are joking presenting such shallow and unfinished content.

    To be honest, your article says: "Add new features to WoW and make it completely diffefrent game and I'll try it." It's probably best for both you and game to simply try different game.

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    I think I just wore it out. I played from vanilla through every expansion for five years without a break until last year. Went back a couple times to see friends and my guild because of free weeks Blizz offered, and even accepted a scroll of resurrection for the free bump to 80 on a class I'd never rolled before.

     

    But once that toon hit the cap, the game just doesn't hold me anymore. There are lots of things I haven't done (like archaeology) but everything looks like a grind from here. I enjoy the game in small doses, a couple of hours at the most. But that's not enough to make me resub.

     

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