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Blizzard has taken the "MMO" feel out of this game.

kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon

Ever since the creation of "LFR" or "LFG" it seems that noone does anything. I remember leveling back in vanilla always seeing people out in the world doing something, now days you'll maybe see someone leveling an alt. I made alot of friends during vanilla cause we all grped up and whent far to go to dungeons or reaking havoc on X-roads. Also while I like the conveniance of the LFR and LFG and even pvp tab, I just think it has taken away one of the most important things of an MMO exploration imo. And i find myself too used to these features myself, but I still like to go out in the world and do things that I did back then.

Comments

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 976Member Uncommon

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. These "Looking For" tools are the biggest contributor to destroying community on a server, particularly when they operate across servers.

     

    Are they convenient? Yes, but at what cost to the community?

     

    For a game like WoW which had been around for some 4-5 years before the LFD tool was introduced you can see the point. People levelling alts had a hard time getting to do dungeons so it made sense for Blizzard to create a way to help solve that. The problem is people demanding the same thing in new MMO's, before anyone has played through the PvE content and had some chance to actually form a community.

     

    I think they went too far with the LFR tool and the daily quests in raids. Raids were always something that you did as a guild not a PUG.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon

    I agree they whent to far with the LFR, all it has created is a bad raiding community I got mad everytime I whent into one losing gear to some jerk thats using it as a trading piece. It used to mean something to be wearing tier gear, Guilds now days have no clue what it's like to start at the bottom and work your way up to the endgame. I just really wish that blizzard didn't create these "Great" ideas and ruin dumbify the community cause of these tools. Ever since Activision stepped in the game just seems to be going downhill for me, and I hate that cause I loved the game back in the glory days now it's just an old game that's lost its roots.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    So? It makes the game better.

    I quit the game and only came back because of LFR. Finally i don't have to commit my life to raid. I was in a high end raiding guild and was sick of working at it like a job.

    Lastly, there is nothing wrong with trading pieces. That is part of the game. In any case, they are taking that away. Loot will be independently drawn for everyone, so no more loot drama in LFR.

    LFR is popular and here to stay. In fact, ALL future raids will have LFR .. and I like it.

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,219Member Uncommon

    LFG tools make the game easier and more accessible to the casual gamer, where most of the cash flow is. So while yes it seriously impacts the community, it also provides a larger source of income due to the in game options. Complain all you want, however it won't change the fact that hardcore gamers do not provide the same source of income as casual players do.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member

    Isn't a player's "true" community their guild and friends list? That has always been my experience. It's like living in a city. Sure there may be millions of other people, but really, you only interact with friends, neighbors and coworkers 99% of the time. The other 999k+ people are just background noise.

     

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    No its not.. When will person stop bashing choice option....

    1) The trinity system doesn't hold up well over the life of an mmo, blizz knew this and that the reason for putting in LFG & LFR choices
  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    @ nariusseldon

    Well said bro. I too was in the same category.. now I can do raid without the religious dedication of the past. I now leave that to the elitist.

    I do still pvp religiously but that's because most of my friends do that, as its more fun and spontaneous than beating and memorizing and silly npc attack patterns..
  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,944Member Uncommon

    WoW is now a lobby game.

    Everyone sits in their capital city and waits for ques. The open world is dead because of the lfg tool. Very close to no one ever quest after level 15.

    How do I know this :

    A few months ago I came back, un hacked my characters with Blizzards help.  I also researched for one of the most populated PvP servers and found Blackrock.  Sure tons of players but EVERYONE was in Stormwind.  NO ONE questing.

    I also made a few new characters on several others servers and did searches of all levels from level 15 to max levels. EVERYONE was in Stormwind or a Dungeon.

    Of all my many characters I joined MANY at random guilds, NO ONE EVER CHATS, with ten and fifteen players on line no one would even say a word with the exception of welcome of new players.  Sure their are sites such as guildportal.com to find the better guilds, but the average player should not have to do that........ITS THE DEVELOPERS RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THE PLAYERS THE TOOLS TO MAKE A COMMUNITY.  Thats the bottom line, and I don't care what anyone has to say about that !

    After 20 days of my 30 I could not take this now lobby game anymore with no community, I canceled my sub.  Guess what, the very next day I got hacked again.

     

    For the people sticking up for how World of Warcraft is now.............Just think of the millions that had stopped playing and never looked back to respond to how bad this mmo is now.

  • BereKinBereKin SplitPosts: 287Member

    There is truth in does words. I stop playing WOW 4 years ago, but one of the most fun part was going in to the world and meet people or fight with them, a real sense of adventure. Anyway, the world was alive and it felt like mmo. Nowdays, from what I hear thats all gone, its a shame but WOW become boring. But, after 8 years maybe thats normal, with or without LFR and LFG.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Seattle, WAPosts: 1,059Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kabitoshin

    Ever since the creation of "LFR" or "LFG" it seems that noone does anything. I remember leveling back in vanilla always seeing people out in the world doing something, now days you'll maybe see someone leveling an alt. I made alot of friends during vanilla cause we all grped up and whent far to go to dungeons or reaking havoc on X-roads. Also while I like the conveniance of the LFR and LFG and even pvp tab, I just think it has taken away one of the most important things of an MMO exploration imo. And i find myself too used to these features myself, but I still like to go out in the world and do things that I did back then.

    It's part of the MMO experiance, but it's still an MMO.


     

    Vanilla WoW was still new compared to it today where majority of the player base now are already level capped.

     

    It seems like folks just want to level cap as fast as they can and gear their alts as soon as possible.

     

    Is that really Blizzards fault? Sounds more like a player decision. Again, the game presents the players the option and many choose the fast way possible.

     

    image

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    It is blizzards fault. Even if some players asked for a quick levelling experience and the end game tier treadmill they should have had the talent and experience that they were devaluing 95% of the games existing content in the process. There are many ways of adding content that does not devalue old content (see gw1, eve, gw2). But it relies on integrity where the focus is not on producing addictive devices to maximise player base, instead of investing heavily to maintain a rich content base for all players.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    It is blizzards fault. Even if some players asked for a quick levelling experience and the end game tier treadmill they should have had the talent and experience that they were devaluing 95% of the games existing content in the process. There are many ways of adding content that does not devalue old content (see gw1, eve, gw2). But it relies on integrity where the focus is not on producing addictive devices to maximise player base, instead of investing heavily to maintain a rich content base for all players.

    This is just silly.  Blizzard is a business, their goal is to keep players happy and paying.  They occassionally find ways to get players back into old content ( guild achieves, transmorg etc), but for the most part they are fine with players abandoning old content and focusing on new content.

    It is funny you are including GW2, a game that is not out yet, and GW1, which apparently needed to be replaced with GW2.  When WOW has to completely shut down to be replaced by WOW2, then you can maybe say you were right, but I think Blizzard makes about a billion dollars every quarter which tells me that it would be absolutely stupid of them to change their current model to something like GW1.

    People pay for what they like.

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by kabitoshin

    Ever since the creation of "LFR" or "LFG" it seems that noone does anything. I remember leveling back in vanilla always seeing people out in the world doing something, now days you'll maybe see someone leveling an alt. I made alot of friends during vanilla cause we all grped up and whent far to go to dungeons or reaking havoc on X-roads. Also while I like the conveniance of the LFR and LFG and even pvp tab, I just think it has taken away one of the most important things of an MMO exploration imo. And i find myself too used to these features myself, but I still like to go out in the world and do things that I did back then.

    The issue is not that Blizz took the  mmo out of wow, but that the layers showed them they desire for much less of the mmo feel in wow. the gamers of mmos for the most part have shown that the focus of the game they want to play is going to be on the end game, and with as few tme sinks as is possible now.  This the issue is that the majority of the players that actually vocalize what they want are who games are marketed to, and than those in the non-vocal miniority are ignored as they are/can never be heardd by the devs at all. Look to the players for why wow lost much of the mmo feel over the devs that merely developed the game  towards what the people wanted in the game as they saw it. I actually find it funny that mmos might just shift back towards a more mmo feel if more gamers played wow and vocalized their desires for changes in the game, as you might see how much the precieved majority dwindles as the unheard/quiet minority sets forward showing they are trully the majority.

  • bestman22bestman22 live oak, FLPosts: 90Member

    The problem is not the LFG tool, its the rewards provided in addition to having an easier time finding a nice dungeon group.  If they stopped handing you a bag at the end with extra experience and a bag full of goodies  people would most likely do more questing or grinding to level.  

     

    That being said the tool itself is great... it gives those that hate questing and grinding a way to find a group without spamming a channel for hours.  It gives those that enjoy questing and the lore but also like dungeons a way to do both instead of sitting somewhere waiting and "shouting" for hours.  Honestly thats why I quit SWTOR, no way to find a group and had to sit in a station to find one... no way around it.

    I also agree with the addition of the LFR tool, I personally just dont have the time or inclination  to live eat and breathe guild or devote hours guaranteed certain nights of the week to run a raid... if you schedule hours and must show up or you lose your spot its a job and no longer fun, with LFR I get to see the nice cinematics and experience the fights and get some gear... you are still perfectly welcome to devote every tuesday and friday night for 3 hours  to your guilds... good for you that you have the desire to do that... that doesnt mean that I should either have to just watch youtube and have no part in the culmination of the entire story of the expansion so that you can preserve your "status" as a raider.

     

    My suggestion to help promote getting back into the world so to speak is to remove the extra rewards from the LFtools... the reward should be the dungeon/raid, not the bag of goodies and bonus exp.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    It is blizzards fault. Even if some players asked for a quick levelling experience and the end game tier treadmill they should have had the talent and experience that they were devaluing 95% of the games existing content in the process. There are many ways of adding content that does not devalue old content (see gw1, eve, gw2). But it relies on integrity where the focus is not on producing addictive devices to maximise player base, instead of investing heavily to maintain a rich content base for all players.

    This is just silly.  Blizzard is a business, their goal is to keep players happy and paying.  They occassionally find ways to get players back into old content ( guild achieves, transmorg etc), but for the most part they are fine with players abandoning old content and focusing on new content.

    It is funny you are including GW2, a game that is not out yet, and GW1, which apparently needed to be replaced with GW2.  When WOW has to completely shut down to be replaced by WOW2, then you can maybe say you were right, but I think Blizzard makes about a billion dollars every quarter which tells me that it would be absolutely stupid of them to change their current model to something like GW1.

    People pay for what they like.

    Its not 'silly' Blizzards goal is to make MAX profit, not max customer happiness, did you read the post or the first 4 words?  The issue is that they have no competition, and have abused that position (e.g not investing enough/greedy profiteering)  your arguing that its great that wow make billions of dollars profit instead of investing that in the game (and therefore provide fresh content)  A Gamer arguing for max profits over content, Blizzard will be pleased.  A couple dungeons a year and a bunch of dailies is plenty for the £100 a year in subs, really?

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon

    Blizzard is just doing what the majority of players want.  That's why they have millions of players.  Granted in today's playerbase, real MMO players are the minority...by alot.  I'd dare to say at least 95% of players who play MMOs today, are not real MMO players.

     

    Just ask yourself this question. Do I want to sit at my computer for the next hour to chop down a tree for wood?  If the answer is no, you're not an MMO player.  If you answered yes, then you might be.  Now, ask yourself: Do I want to take said wood and take another hour to turn into something useful?  If you answered no, you might be an MMO player, but want things done like in RTS, FPS games.  If you answered yes, you're a real MMO player for sure, you sadistic sob...welcome to the grind that is MMOs :)

     

    Real MMO players will tell you it's not the endgame that counts. In fact, most MMO players hate endgame.  Real MMO players know that an MMO is all about the journey.  It's not about how fast you can do something.

     

    Edit: In today's MMOs where everything is so fast, real MMO players will have a gazillion alts /guilty  as they would rather spend time leveling and reading lore, and making up stories, and running about "slaying" evil doers and pickpockets.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,004Member Uncommon
    • Battlegrounds
    • Arenas
    • Phasing
    • Instanced Dungeons
    • LFG & LFR tool
    • Flying Mounts
    • And the fact that everything is able to be solo'd to max level.

    All these contribute to the feeling of an empty world.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member

    Ever since launch the MMO feel has been out of this world. WoW has always been casual/solo oriented, in every piece of game design. It's gotten more so over time, but even at launch this game felt less like an MMO than any of the others. Instancing.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    Cross realming turned WOW into a MMO Dungeon Crawler. Vanilla WOW with the potential for meaningful open world PVP was amazing. The little bit we forced at S Short and T Mill was great. Blizz went in the wrong discretion with PVP.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Worcester, MAPosts: 2,898Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    Cross realming turned WOW into a MMO Dungeon Crawler. Vanilla WOW with the potential for meaningful open world PVP was amazing. The little bit we forced at S Short and T Mill was great. Blizz went in the wrong discretion with PVP.

    Cross realming was the natural progression of a game that, from its first day, was always trying to be a singleplayer game with optional coop. WoW never had good PvP. It had better PvP than it does now, but the game was NOT designed for it.

  • AzrileAzrile Houston, MDPosts: 2,582Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    It is blizzards fault. Even if some players asked for a quick levelling experience and the end game tier treadmill they should have had the talent and experience that they were devaluing 95% of the games existing content in the process. There are many ways of adding content that does not devalue old content (see gw1, eve, gw2). But it relies on integrity where the focus is not on producing addictive devices to maximise player base, instead of investing heavily to maintain a rich content base for all players.

    This is just silly.  Blizzard is a business, their goal is to keep players happy and paying.  They occassionally find ways to get players back into old content ( guild achieves, transmorg etc), but for the most part they are fine with players abandoning old content and focusing on new content.

    It is funny you are including GW2, a game that is not out yet, and GW1, which apparently needed to be replaced with GW2.  When WOW has to completely shut down to be replaced by WOW2, then you can maybe say you were right, but I think Blizzard makes about a billion dollars every quarter which tells me that it would be absolutely stupid of them to change their current model to something like GW1.

    People pay for what they like.

    Its not 'silly' Blizzards goal is to make MAX profit, not max customer happiness, did you read the post or the first 4 words?  The issue is that they have no competition, and have abused that position (e.g not investing enough/greedy profiteering)  your arguing that its great that wow make billions of dollars profit instead of investing that in the game (and therefore provide fresh content)  A Gamer arguing for max profits over content, Blizzard will be pleased.  A couple dungeons a year and a bunch of dailies is plenty for the £100 a year in subs, really?

     

    Blizzard has no competition?     AOC, WHO, DDO, LOTRO, DF, UO, EQ, EQ2,    etc etc etc.  My statement is that Blizzard is making a billion dollars because they are making players happy.   And the reason WOW has no ´real´ competition is because they made WOW more fun than the other games.

    LFG is terrible?  Why?  Because we no longer have to fly 5 minutes to a dungeon entrence?   Does nearly-AFK flying make a game fun?   Does it make it more fun that after you get there, your tank drops group and you have to fly back to town?   Was it fun to constatnly type  /2 looking for tank for Mana Tombs!!!  and sit in a city for hours trying to put together a group?  Are those things fun??

    If you are in a guild, or play with friends, then LFG doesn´t impact you at all.  I do mostly guild runs, but when there aren´t people online, it is nice to just LFG or LFR.   Seriously, beating a dungeon or raid boss is fun, sitting in town spamming /2 is not fun.  Flying to a dungeon is not fun.

    It is funny, because people here complain about the game now because ´all anyone does is sits in town waiting to do dungeons´.... well really, isn´t that what we did before?  Only now we don´t have to spam /2.

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Azrile
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    It is blizzards fault. Even if some players asked for a quick levelling experience and the end game tier treadmill they should have had the talent and experience that they were devaluing 95% of the games existing content in the process. There are many ways of adding content that does not devalue old content (see gw1, eve, gw2). But it relies on integrity where the focus is not on producing addictive devices to maximise player base, instead of investing heavily to maintain a rich content base for all players.

    This is just silly.  Blizzard is a business, their goal is to keep players happy and paying.  They occassionally find ways to get players back into old content ( guild achieves, transmorg etc), but for the most part they are fine with players abandoning old content and focusing on new content.

    It is funny you are including GW2, a game that is not out yet, and GW1, which apparently needed to be replaced with GW2.  When WOW has to completely shut down to be replaced by WOW2, then you can maybe say you were right, but I think Blizzard makes about a billion dollars every quarter which tells me that it would be absolutely stupid of them to change their current model to something like GW1.

    People pay for what they like.

    Its not 'silly' Blizzards goal is to make MAX profit, not max customer happiness, did you read the post or the first 4 words?  The issue is that they have no competition, and have abused that position (e.g not investing enough/greedy profiteering)  your arguing that its great that wow make billions of dollars profit instead of investing that in the game (and therefore provide fresh content)  A Gamer arguing for max profits over content, Blizzard will be pleased.  A couple dungeons a year and a bunch of dailies is plenty for the £100 a year in subs, really?

     

    Blizzard has no competition?     AOC, WHO, DDO, LOTRO, DF, UO, EQ, EQ2,    etc etc etc.  My statement is that Blizzard is making a billion dollars because they are making players happy.   And the reason WOW has no ´real´ competition is because they made WOW more fun than the other games.

    LFG is terrible?  Why?  Because we no longer have to fly 5 minutes to a dungeon entrence?   Does nearly-AFK flying make a game fun?   Does it make it more fun that after you get there, your tank drops group and you have to fly back to town?   Was it fun to constatnly type  /2 looking for tank for Mana Tombs!!!  and sit in a city for hours trying to put together a group?  Are those things fun??

    If you are in a guild, or play with friends, then LFG doesn´t impact you at all.  I do mostly guild runs, but when there aren´t people online, it is nice to just LFG or LFR.   Seriously, beating a dungeon or raid boss is fun, sitting in town spamming /2 is not fun.  Flying to a dungeon is not fun.

    It is funny, because people here complain about the game now because ´all anyone does is sits in town waiting to do dungeons´.... well really, isn´t that what we did before?  Only now we don´t have to spam /2.

    In early WOW, heck, pre-BC even, my fondest memories were traveling, exploring, and leveling.  Yes, WOW had its quests hubs back then, but they weren't so strung out in a linear fashion as todays MMO's (or Cataclysm).  Early WOW, even BC WOW was fantastic.

    But when I hit level cap, part of the game died for me.  I found myself running around in circles in Dalaran (or whatever the in-vogue capital city was) and truly missed the sense of wonder and that there was just one more area to explore over the horizon.

    The journey, to me, was much, much more than the destination.

    I think all games get old, and I know the nostalgia feeling all too well.  What Blizz could have done better with WOW was if they had a zone with, say, 6 quest hubs (A, B, C, D, E, F), they could allow players to hit those in any order (and within the player's character's capabilities).  This way you could have tons of iterations on how to approach this, making rolling alts a slightly different experience.

    But, in stringing them out in a line, with phasing mostly, you almost always have A->B->C->D->E->F.  Just one basic iteration.  This has far less replay value and makes some players feel trapped in on-rails gameplay.  This is a mistake many, many MMO's are making these days.

  • AWWREEAWNUHAWWREEAWNUH San Antonio, TXPosts: 15Member

    Join an RP server. Hear me out. I personally do not RP, it does not interest me. HOWEVER, creating a character on Moonguard is probably the best move i could have made towards the end of my WoW play time. 

    YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RP ON AN RP SERVER. 

    Upsides: People are effing EVERYWHERE. Max level characters in every damn zone jsut chillin, RP'ing, PvPing. 

    Downside: Goldshire, do not venture there unless you want to ERP of course :p

    As someone who did not get to experience Vanilla, Moonguard is the most active i have ever seen the WoW World and i wish every server was that way, especially PvP servers ;/

    Goodluck

     

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