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Is it me or GW2 PAY 2 WIN game?

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Comments

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member

    er, I have not seen anything that supports what you're saying, the link does not either.... Do you have other sources or other information that would suggest Guild Wars 2 is what you suggest?

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

  • malilimamalilima ZagrebPosts: 6Member
    Originally posted by Sebber
    Originally posted by malilima
    Originally posted by Sebber
    Originally posted by malilima
    Originally posted by Sebber
    Originally posted by malilima

    I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
    The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

    If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

    As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
    So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

    There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

    You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

    You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

    And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

    As I said drop rate of mystic keys seems to be 1 key on 10 chests. so, you either:

    1. Grind for keys (random drop)

    2. Grind to gain gold to buy gems and then buy them from cash shop

    3. Buy them with money

    4. Get them in your personal story when you are done some of the quests.

    Oh, you got me. You can get couple through personal story, true.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by thedarkess

    Yes, you can buy anything in cash shop with gold, but there's nothing that will give you advantage and win.

     Define advantage as anything that makes your character more powerful in ANY aspect of the game.

    With this definition, do you honestly believe that nothing in the auction house could ever give your character an advantage?

    Except, advantage /= power. Hell, almost none of the advantages in the cashshop even last that long. The ones that do are things like extra storage, which are advantages but not power. Paying to lvl faster than the guy next to you is an advantage, but it doesn't make you more powerful than they are. Buying a portable bank golem is an advantage, but doesn't make you more powerful. This was all explained very plainly on page 1:

    Originally posted by Master10K

    I can link to. image

    This really comes down to how far people are trying to stretch the definition of 'pay 2 win' to encompass pretty much anything that can conceivably be called an advantage. That is NOT what it means. There's a huge difference from buying the best gear in the game via the cash shop and 'winning', and buying an extra character slot and calling that 'buying power'.

    Hell, even if you try and make the argument that the action of trading gems -> gold is 'pay to win', that falls flat on a number of points that have been beaten to death already.

    1) The gems -> gold exchange rate is dictated by the players, so trying to flood the market w/ selling gems will drive the price way, way down.

    2) Gold cannot buy you any of the best gear in the game. Period. In order to get any of that stuff, gold is of zero use aside from travel / repair costs, of which no one has trouble with anyway.

    3) Even if you use that to bankroll blueprints in WvW, they are still dictated by a secondary cost, supply, and you cannot buy supply with gems or gold. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that blue prints just don't cost that much compared to the amount of gold you make just by playing the game at later lvls. Which leads me to..

    4) Gold is insanely easy to get in this game. Arguably more so than any other MMO. It's not only easier to get, but it's less important.

    Probably the most extreme case of using gems to buy a significant advantage, would be to sell gems for gold, use that gold to bankroll a new character, and have them grinding all crafting professions. However, this is STILL dictated by the players, and unless you know exact where to get which items, you are at the mercy of the other players to find the items you need for higher lvl recipies. This means that you will have to wait a bit before this is even possible, and you will have to know enough about the game as to how to take advantage of such a shortcut. Again, doesn't buy power, but it does cheapen the experience for that one character.

    Reposted. Again, you can buy an 'advantage' sure, but not power. Can you buy slightly better equipment earlier in the game than grey trash weapons? Definitely. Are these weapons going to be better than the epics that people earn through karma, quest rewards? Nope.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    No it's not an advantage over anyone. You can get a boost for yourself and that's it. It won't affect anyone no matter what you say. It's like "buying" a dlc for a single  player game, is that an advantage to you? Seriously

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • VagabondLifeVagabondLife Grand Junction, COPosts: 91Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    But since gear/weapons are level rated you would only have an advantage if you reached that level ahead of someone else.........a very trivial advantage at best.

  • grimmlibertygrimmliberty Huber Heights, OHPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Sebber
    Originally posted by Master10K

    I can link to. image

    This is golden.

    Yes, yes it is! LOL

     

    Sincerely,
    Grimm Liberty

  • grimmlibertygrimmliberty Huber Heights, OHPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by VagabondLife
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    But since gear/weapons are level rated you would only have an advantage if you reached that level ahead of someone else.........a very trivial advantage at best.

    ... and I can MAKE gear that beats anything you might get from Gems... LOL 

    Sincerely,
    Grimm Liberty

  • AtriokkeAtriokke Puerto RicoPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by sgel

    heh this attrioke dude must be under the spell of the TERA PR deprtment.

    There is absolutely no other possiblity (without delving into personal insults) that his person has such faulty logic.

     

    Lol i had forgotten my profile was still with that TERA thing.   FIXED.  TERA now sells pay to win item called chronoscroll, or if you prefer, a purchasable item through wish you can have an advantage over other people.  Left as soon as that was announced.

    May the richest person win!!

  • travamarstravamars Dallas, TXPosts: 417Member Common
    Originally posted by seridan
     
  • travamarstravamars Dallas, TXPosts: 417Member Common

    This is hillarious to see all of the differant excuses people have used to justify the cash shop.

    If i purchase a million dollars worth of gold with real money but dont spend it, hows that P2W? LMAO!!!

  • AtriokkeAtriokke Puerto RicoPosts: 13Member
    Originally posted by MercAngel

    GW2 is not P2W i did a test last BEW to see how much the XP boost did for you so with char 1 i did all the heart and skill quest and any DE's i came by makeing a note of witch ones i did up to the Assault on Svanir's Dome at the end my char was lvl 18 about 3/4 of the way to lvl 19.

     

    Char 2 useing XP boost i did the same things as char 1 makeing sure to only do the DE'S the char 1 did all the way to Assault on Svanir's Dome that char was lvl 19 and the end of the event.

     

    so a player getting 1/4 more exp in more or less the same amout of play time and may get to max lvl 1-2 days before i do = P2W    NOT!!!!!

     

    P2W = you can not beat highend content with out useing items from cash shop.

    it works something like this. say you can not do dungeons with out upgraded rare armor and weapons now rare armor and weapons are hard to find and it may take time and gold to get them all as some players may sell them for a high price you can also get all the rest of the stuff you need to upgrade with but there is one thing your upgrade may fail and destory the item you are trying to upgrade but there is this cash shop item that keeps the item from getting destoryed if the upgrade fails note this item does not drop in game and has a 1 time use so the only way to get this item is from cash shop or other players that got it from the cash shop for a ton of gold.

     

    as there are no items in GW2 cash shop that are neede to play them game, beat highend content , or do dungeons  it is not P2W

     

    P2W = you can not beat highend content with out useing items from cash shop."

    Sorry to disturb your definition.  Its just so daunting to use 'have an advantage over others through cash'. So i just use P2W at face value.  I wonder what definition came first,

    (1) P2W = you can not beat highend content with out useing items from cash shop."

    or 

    (2)P2W = have an advantage over others through cash

    *shrug*

    Think its important to have the second definition because many of us dont play certain (2)P2W and by extension (1)P2W.

    May the richest person win!!

  • TrunksZTrunksZ PanamaPosts: 263Member

    I don't know if the game is Pay 2 Win or not, but why do people complaint about it, you have the same option that everybody else have, to earn money and to spend it on whatever you think its pay 2 win, if you choose not to spend the money cause in your opinion is not worth it, well thats your problem, but don't complaint about it.

  • bverjibverji Corpus Christi, TXPosts: 722Member Common
    Originally posted by Sebber
    Originally posted by Master10K

    I can link to. image

    This is golden.

    LOL enough said

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    I think the point is you can by better than what you have. 

  • aionixaionix Fremont, OHPosts: 292Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    snip

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    I think the point is you can by better than what you have. 

    I think the point related to the topic of this thread is that buying that gear will not effect OTHER players experience....thus it is not pay to win.

  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon

    Ok, can we end discussion here? We all agree that GW2 is clearly P2W. Don't. Buy. Game. At all. It's pay to win. Let us who bought game to enj... suffer from P2W.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    I think the point is you can by better than what you have. 

    I can't get better than lvl 80 gear.

    All the lvl 80 armors and weapons offer the same defense and damage.

    So wherever I'm, that other guy over there that buy gold with real money, and his the same level than me, he is doing the same damage.

    Not that it would be important since we aren't competing vs each other - we are in the same team, we aren't competing for mobs, drops, unique achievements or gear, spots in raids, etc.

    And now I have to look what happened when he bought gold with gems -> other people got gems so that they can acquire services and other shop items without paying a cent.

    That is why most people aren't bothered with the shop:

    - it sells time savers, not power; (In fact you are paying to lose game time, go figure, especially cause there is nothing at the end of the leveling);

    - when people trade gems for gold, people that don't want to spend real money can acquire things from the shop for free.

    Actual players are exchanging different currencies, one exchanged money for in game items; other exchange in game items for in game money; other exchanged in game money for real money that can only be used in Anet CS.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • dageezadageeza london, KYPosts: 578Member

    Yes it is P2W you pay $60 one time and then you win full access for the life of game!

     

    Playing GW2..

  • DeldorDeldor HusumPosts: 51Member Uncommon

    For WvW it's a mild form of P2W.

    If 2 people play the same amount of time, someone who spends cash can:

    - level slightly faster

    - spend much more gold on siege engines and keep upgrade

    So, technically it's P2W, but i hope that it's not game breaking.

    Personally, i would like to see an extra currency only for siege engines and keep upgrades. And the xp boost should get removed entirely.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by aionix
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    snip

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    I think the point is you can by better than what you have. 

    I think the point related to the topic of this thread is that buying that gear will not effect OTHER players experience....thus it is not pay to win.

    I know it's difficult to discern the different viewpoints in this thread, but I never argued that GW2 was P2W, simply because the definition of P2W is so nebulous.

    My only argument is that you can spend real money to get an advantage in GW2, with advantage being defined as anything that gives you some kind of quantifiable power in any part of the game.

    All I'm saying is that people arguing that the GW2 cash shop is completely innocuous and will have no effect on the game whatsoever are just as off-base as people arguing that the game is flat out pay to win.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by Morv
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

     See this post:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

    In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

     Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

    WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

    PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

    I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

    What advantage in PvE?

     


    I am curious too, what advantage?

     Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

    I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

    Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

    There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

    What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

    I think the point is you can by better than what you have. 

    I can't get better than lvl 80 gear.

    All the lvl 80 armors and weapons offer the same defense and damage.

    So wherever I'm, that other guy over there that buy gold with real money, and his the same level than me, he is doing the same damage.

    Not that it would be important since we aren't competing vs each other - we are in the same team, we aren't competing for mobs, drops, unique achievements or gear, spots in raids, etc.

    And now I have to look what happened when he bought gold with gems -> other people got gems so that they can acquire services and other shop items without paying a cent.

    That is why most people aren't bothered with the shop:

    - it sells time savers, not power; (In fact you are paying to lose game time, go figure, especially cause there is nothing at the end of the leveling);

    - when people trade gems for gold, people that don't want to spend real money can acquire things from the shop for free.

    Actual players are exchanging different currencies, one exchanged money for in game items; other exchange in game items for in game money; other exchanged in game money for real money that can only be used in Anet CS.

    Bingo.  Which is why I remain opposed to the cash shop.  I just don't like the idea of having people pay money to skip playing your game.  It seems like it takes advantage of erm...less enlightened consumers.

    I mean, I never thought a businessman would be able to say the following and be successful at it:

    "Hey guys, here is my new game.  It costs $60 initially, but the best part about it is that if you get it and find that you don't like part of it, then you can just pay extra money to skip that part!"

     

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

This discussion has been closed.