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Combat is terrible, worse beyond Kingsmouth

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  • tarestares York, PAPosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by Mephster

    This is what happens when the rest of the devs dumb down their combat system and when someone actually makes something different they freak out. I think a alot of people are just too lazy and spoiled because most mmos have been pretty easy. Now when actual effort is needed  it is labeled as bad combat. What a joke...

    Most MMOs are not close to being "pretty easy". Most MMO players will never be at the top of even a server ranking, such a member of raid that killed X first and most players will never be anywhere close to the top 10% of players in any PvP ranking.  Then it goes a step further and the top 1% of players in either PvP or PvE are leaps and bounds ahead of the players just below them, it is exponential progression.

    Secret world's combat was not well thought out or tested, abilities were not balanced against each other, most skills and passives, around half have no reason to ever be taken over something else.  Many of the bread and butter abilities are dupes of other weapons and that is why the two button players do so well when compared to someone with an experimental complex build that even if optimized will give little benifit.  Bringing me to my next point, the power curve of the skill wheel is so small it would be written off in many games. Perfect weapon synergy +10% dps, perfect skill strategy +5% DPS. The difference from one build to the next is close to nominal, find out what was overpowered in beta and avoid those builds as they were overnerfed, but even with those builds you should be able to tear the game up.

    Where are the in game DPS meters? DPS is the only class any of this matters for, the tank and healer classes are pretty leveled out, though life leach was nufed pretty hard between open beta 1 and open beta 2 so I wouldn't trust a healer with an AR.

    Your "game is to complex for anyone to fathom so it must be good" doesn't hold,  Warcraft has more game mechanics and classes play much differently from one another than one weapon to another in TSW and people figured that out. Starcraft 2 is very complex and has tons of players, eve is rumored to have a steep leveling curve and seems to have more players. SWTOR and Aion have different builds and mechanics for each class and those games have competitive PvP.

    Your point works as the skill wheel is very complex it just wasn't designed well, if it was designed well then players would break it down and study it and run parsers and have come up with the top 10 builds by now.  I spent a lot of time studying it in both open and closed beta and my conclusion is it is poorly throught out and boring. I mentioned the former but it is boring because the (ELITE) skills are so boring when compared to other games that have game changing skills. In other words (ELITE) skills should be the defining skills of a weapon, not another snare or stun. It would have mitigated the all builds play the same vibe we will hear about once people start working on multiple decks.

  • IkifalesIkifales tucson, AZPosts: 291Member Uncommon
    I love the combat. If you build a good deck with great synergy it can be almost OP at times. It's all about the build and decent gear helps a lot as well. I keep seeing people say its to hard for casual gamers and that's why they don't like it....nonsense. I am a very casual MMO gamer, I won't raid because it. I find the combat to be a lot of fun as you dig into deck building, it takes thought and trial and error. I love it!
  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I think Aoc fatalities would be great in tsw though.

     Mortal Kombat MMORPG, GO GO GO. I think fatalities should be put in every mature MMO. That and the sound effects from Unreal tournament. Imagine killing monsters and hearing " KILLING SPREE" or "UNSTOPABLLEEEEEE". Yeaahhhh I would never get bored of grinding.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,912Member Uncommon

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,763Member Rare
    Originally posted by dumpcat
    I love the combat. If you build a good deck with great synergy it can be almost OP at times. It's all about the build and decent gear helps a lot as well. I keep seeing people say its to hard for casual gamers and that's why they don't like it....nonsense. I am a very casual MMO gamer, I won't raid because it. I find the combat to be a lot of fun as you dig into deck building, it takes thought and trial and error. I love it!

    Then you run into the guy who wipes the floor with you everytime because his build hard counters your :) 

     

    I'm with you. The combat is great. The learning curve throws some people off though. Believe it or not TSW requiers you to learn /gasp

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,763Member Rare
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    All good bro. A lot of us are looking for a tough game. I hope you do hang on, because you will get better. At the same time if you frustration level is this high so soon, TSW might not be the game for you.

     

    Good luck regardless.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member Uncommon

    I haven't found any quests that I couldn't solo yet. One thing to keep in mind is how you make your build. You have a solo build, a group build, and a pvp build. You can save those builds in the gear manager (although I found it a bit buggy, but it does keep your build, just that it takes your gear off). You need a defensive skill or two, also a self healing skill is good to have in a solo build. Plus use consumables as a backup to all of that. I have used all of that and it has made the game fairly easy.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,912Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

    Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

    Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

    And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • xenptxenpt V.N de FamalicPosts: 430Member

    I agree with op, this game is really good in everything except gameplay , it is one of the worst gameplays i have ever seen in my live.

    image

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member Uncommon

    hmm, if you done all of those other areas twice through, the blue mountains should be normal to you. Although the mission ratings are based on your gear level and your AP/SP usage I believe.

  • RictisRictis UnknownPosts: 1,282Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

    Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

    Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

    And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

     I am not sure if this was listed however, I did play some TSW after launch on a friends PC. I noticed that mixing Sword with Blood magic worked really well. It felt kind of like a Paladin deck would if you compare it to the WoW Paladin class. You have bubbles for absorbing damage, healing capabilites and enhancement buffs. Look into it and see if that will help out your situation. If that doesnt help I would just open up the skill wheel and evaluate where your current weakness is, whether its damage output or survival. Just consider that most games require you to have a few "oh Sh$t" buttons.

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,635Member Uncommon

    I would not say it is terrible.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by xenpt

    I agree with op, this game is really good in everything except gameplay , it is one of the worst gameplays i have ever seen in my live.

    What is this a joke? Talk about pouring it on. You know what this tells me? You haven't played many mmos apparently.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

    Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

    Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

    And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

    odd I'm still in savage coast so can't really help much in blue mountain I also have yet to try AR or sword to help much with a good combo for those. If you are in a cabal and some people are up in higher zones you can have them give you some better equipment to help you out. In the MMORPG cabal people have been adding lots of stuff to the guild bank recently.

    Honestly if you are soloing mostly I would have gone for one for one of the pre-built DPS decks. Not sure what faction you are but magus deck in templar is pretty damn good

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • sr7olsnipersr7olsniper Alhambra, CAPosts: 206Member Uncommon
    Can we please stop it already with the "I really wanted to like/love this" it is retarded to no end. You either like something or u don't , if you "want" to like something you are pretty much forcing yourself by default.

    At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 622Member Uncommon

    Well Elikal,

    I don't play to "get to the top" first, my first aim in game was to get the Witch Hunter outfit (templar). For that, i followed the sword + hammer routine and the build sugested by the above deck i was following (with some modifications). The build focuses on exploiting the impaired state (one hammer builder, two single target spenders, one for sword one for hammer, 3 specials which set impaired state and one utility skill). My character is built in a more tanky-ish style (lots of defenses and self heals on impaired), i do not kill as fast as others but i can easily take 3 orange mobs in the 6th zone, thing i saw lots of people having problems with. The build has also a Very Strong AoE potential because of the skills you unlock on the way (yes you'll have to change the skills for when you encounter chain AoE packs and special situations)

     

    I also have an offspec which does not focus on impaired (was left with lots of extra AP) for the mobs which are immune to impaired or anything like that. Now i am in Transylvania, i'm wearing full QL10 green items, all being my drops, following the same pattern, going good. Almost finished the first zone.

     

    So far i did not find terrible problems with difficulty, especially in the third zone except for some quests (the "protect the sasquatch" one's lame difficulty is already in the game's own lore). I admit that i've also grouped a lot (well, only for one session in the 3rd zone where you are), but not because i felt it was "needed", just because i'm kinda social and i like that aspect, and things go smooth etc. Hope it helps.

  • BigCountryBigCountry Charlotte, NCPosts: 478Member

    Savage Coast is not too bad. Just do not rush in there (<3k hit points etc). Now fighting the "Bogeyman" was a challenge. He is actially pretty hard to kill. You cannot simply mindlessly hit him like you can other mobs. He is more like a single player boss. Was a lot of fun!

    BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by BigCountry

    Savage Coast is not too bad. Just do not rush in there (<3k hit points etc). Now fighting the "Bogeyman" was a challenge. He is actially pretty hard to kill. You cannot simply mindlessly hit him like you can other mobs. He is more like a single player boss. Was a lot of fun!

    bogeyman is great fight.. you gotta watch his AOE and hide behind something. It does play similar to bigger boss fights in dungeons

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,798Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Elikal

    UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

    Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

     

    Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

    what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

    Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

    Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

    And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

    AR can really stand on it's own as a single weapon build.  The only thing I use from another weapon is Big 44 from pistols as a pistol resource consumer.  

    Open with a AOE slow, fire off the resource builder to get 5 AR resources right away, use either a single target or AOE finisher depending on mobs, fire builder until 5 of each resources, finisher, finisher, repeat.  Throw in a heal or two as a option (although I will say that AR heals are weak if you don't use +heal items) and you can take on a lot.  If I wasn't obsessed with getting my Templar deck outfit for AR/Pistols I would probably swap out pistols for ele or blood.  That will come soon enough however.

    I do use energy drinks on tougher fights (they seem to drop a lot more starting in Blue Mountains) but I'm heaviliy DPS specced so I'm not really surprised.

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member Common

    proper deck,...

    didn't give it time,...

    not the right build...

    didn't get to the good content

    , ... and not to mention the length of the this thread. It's someones opinion guys, not everyones. I am not getting it due to the cash shop, but even I , a person that is not a fan nor a hater can tell the OP was just giving thoughts about the game as they see it. The excuses given in any MMO by the fan base as of late are just dumb.

    If someone needs to follow these reasons given by the fanbase to make the game fun, I would say those same reason (build your skills the way you want too! , have exciting engaging stories and combat right at the start! ) are all just a bunch of hog wash. You can't have it both ways.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • NavyJackalNavyJackal Halifax, NSPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by Kost

    Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

    Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

    I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

    Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

  • Poison_AdelePoison_Adele Seattle, WAPosts: 287Member Common
    I'm amazed how people continue to post telling OP what he did wrong when he has not described his combat experience as anything but "bad".
    I guess the psychic powers in TSW transfer to its players.

    image

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NavyJackal
    Originally posted by Kost

    Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

    Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

    I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

    Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

     

    I have seen some posters go from not liking the game to liking it in a span of a month or so and I find it strange because the game hasn't changed that much in the last month or two. I usually feel that way when I lie to myself about liking an MMO only to realize that......I lied to myself.

  • KostKost Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,975Member Common
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by NavyJackal
    Originally posted by Kost

    Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

    Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

    I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

    Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

     

    I have seen some posters go from not liking the game to liking it in a span of a month or so and I find it strange because the game hasn't changed that much in the last month or two. I usually feel that way when I lie to myself about liking an MMO only to realize that......I lied to myself.

    I'm glad someone gets it, really wasn't a hard premise to grasp.

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