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Feeling bad for some Kickstarter projects

DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

There is a lot of positive press going on with games getting funded with Kickstarter. Games that might have never got a fair shot otherwise.

 

ON the other side though are games that are not as far along or in the idea phase that kind of get left in the dust. I type "MMO"into the search feature sometimes just to see what else is out there.

 

Here are a couple examples:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554158022/mmorpg-quest-remnants-of-chaos?ref=live

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/323060752/shatter-of-stars?ref=live

 

The first one has been up there 2 other times and been pretty underfunded. They scaled back their expectations but now only have 1 dollar pledged with 7 days to go. Reading the history they have been working on the game for around 4 years or so and that might have been the last chance to get it funded.

 

The second one you can tell people put work into it but is mainly in the design phase and has about 815 dollars pledged.

 

I look at these guys and kind of feel bad that they put work into this and really have nothing to show for it whil other projects get 2-10x what they ask for. Then again most of those have a much better presentation.

 

I guess I just put them up because maybe at least a couple people can see them and help them out in some way. Many people that work in the industry read thes forums so maybe they could give them some advice to help them out.

 

The easy thing to say is they suck and move on but maybe someone reading will see something promising and work with them to help them out.

 

There are a few more like this on the site but didn't want to post every single link and these two kind of stood out for various reasons.

 

 

 

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Comments

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon

    I am happy that only the well presented projects that are often well into development are funded. A game needs to look as if there is a chance for it to be finished for people to believe in it. The mmo you linked "Quest". The team behind it may be ambitious but have little to know experiance. The first thing it says in the section about the guy...is that he played mmos from the begining, that is a terrible way to start. Just there I wanted to stop reading because I played X gamy for Y years...thats just pointless.

    Still the biggest problem they have is the video. Its plain bad and boring. It starts with webcam footage...The audio is terrible, the video quality is terrible, the video is just text with the game in the background. Why would I want to fund people who could not make an effort to present the game better. Get a better cam, a better mic and give commentary and not expect people to read dry boring text.

    The second game, the browser based rpg is presented better, the person behind it seems to have more experiance, the video has the guy explaining his vision. BUT all the video shows is pretty terrible art. There is nothing to show that the game is even started.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    YEah i would only back well prestented kickstarter pages as well, of coruse i would also research as much as i could about the game and people behind it.

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    I don't feel sorry for either of them, they both look truly terrible.

    The first one, is written in broken english, it sounds like a game that is being made by a bunch of russian 13 year olds. 

    And, now I have just looked and seen it's apparently made by a native english speaker from Boise ID. If my CV/Resume was that badly written I wouldn't even expect employment from McDonalds so why should anyone give money to this guy?

    image
  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    I also just noticed that if you pledge $1000 or more you get a "plague" hahahah no wonder no one wants to pledge.

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  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member

    Seriously, these two project, and specially the fist (quest think), look like a bunch of teenagers deciding to create a MMORPG without having a clue of what it takes to make one.

    Do people really give money to such "projects"???

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf LondonPosts: 2,269Member

    For me, a ks page really needs a 'who are we' section, even if they not well known it's incredibly important for me to know what experience the exponents have to fulfil their proposals.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DashiDMV

    There is a lot of positive press going on with games getting funded with Kickstarter. Games that might have never got a fair shot otherwise.

     

    ON the other side though are games that are not as far along or in the idea phase that kind of get left in the dust. I type "MMO"into the search feature sometimes just to see what else is out there.

     

    Here are a couple examples:

     

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554158022/mmorpg-quest-remnants-of-chaos?ref=live

     

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/323060752/shatter-of-stars?ref=live

     

    The first one has been up there 2 other times and been pretty underfunded. They scaled back their expectations but now only have 1 dollar pledged with 7 days to go. Reading the history they have been working on the game for around 4 years or so and that might have been the last chance to get it funded.

     

    The second one you can tell people put work into it but is mainly in the design phase and has about 815 dollars pledged.

     

    I look at these guys and kind of feel bad that they put work into this and really have nothing to show for it whil other projects get 2-10x what they ask for. Then again most of those have a much better presentation.

     

    I guess I just put them up because maybe at least a couple people can see them and help them out in some way. Many people that work in the industry read thes forums so maybe they could give them some advice to help them out.

     

    The easy thing to say is they suck and move on but maybe someone reading will see something promising and work with them to help them out.

     

    There are a few more like this on the site but didn't want to post every single link and these two kind of stood out for various reasons.


    Taking a look at the first link, it is obvious why they are not getting funding. All they have is a person running in a world, that stutters so badly, that one should have thought it impossible with so little graphics.

    Then they have a mailbox and some text where they brag about their industry connections - which is quite unbelievable in light of the poor quality of the game. The bragging sends a bad signal, as it looks like this is what they had to resort to, to gain credibility.

    They have no combat or other gameplay related implementations.

    I would never, ever pledge a penny either based on what they have presented.

  • RasputinRasputin gnaf, AKPosts: 604Member Uncommon

    Second game has a slideshow, that is all. In the background you hear the guy working with his mouse.

    With quality awareness like that, how are people going to believe in it?

     

    On top of that, both games have obviously bitten off more than they can chew. When you are at that level, don't start out with an MMO.

  • Hopscotch73Hopscotch73 DublinPosts: 971Member

    I understand the OP feeling sympathetic towards those projects, but it's important to realise that Kickstarter is a business proposition. Anyone looking for funding there has to be able to present to the general public just as well as they would present to investors. 

    Two recent examples of projects that exceeded their goal - for contrast.

    Embers of Caerus - who were seeking funding to make a prototype to show investors. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forsakenstudios/embers-of-caerus-investor-prototype

    The Repopulation - who were seeking money to add polish to a game that's already playable. Game has been developed as a labor of love on the devs own time for years. The team already has videos and a website where they engage with their community and post monthly updates on work done. 

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation?ref=live

    Personally, my money went to the Repopulation - not just because of their consistency and their dedication, but because they were asking us to help them make a game that already exists better. 

    Both of these projects had an evident plan and a presentation that was well thought out and professional looking. The others have passion...not that that's a bad thing...but they're lacking in other ways. "Quest" has a description that is slightly garbled and their presentation is more about what they want to do than what they have done. They don't seem to have a website either. Four years work and a pretty ropey video. OK, but all there is apart from that is game story text. What are the systems? The video says there's mail and an AH and crafting matters...er...whoopeee? See what I mean?

    "Shatter of Stars" is better presented but again there's little in the way of nuts and bolts. 

    They also both have very high targets - 50k and 40k. The unofficial rule on KIckstarter (from what I know of it) is to aim low and exceed your target to (a) guarantee funds pledged and (b) build buzz around your project.

    YMMV but  I want to know as much as I can about what the people behind these projects have been doing to make them a reality before coming to Kickstarter. Everyone can have a dream project, but I (just my opinion) am far more inclined to give financial backing to someone who has run with that dream and sussed out the business side, the web side (promotion, community building) and the nitty-gritty of the project itself. I'm also only inclined to spend on something I'd be interested in actually playing. The two you linked....not so much. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,675Member Uncommon

    That first one has all the trappings of the common "Making MMO, looking for volunteers" post

    • - backstory scrolls on 5 times longer than the substantial information does
    • - the belief that playing MMO for 10 years qualifies one as a network/3d modelling/gamedesign/marketing/animation/worldbuilding expert. 
    • - obvious lack of understnading of the scope of the project they are involved in
    • - a "demo" that consists of little more than texture changes and random objects in TGEA, RC or some other engine where the majority of the work being shown was actually already done for them. 

    I don't feel sorry for them at all. I feel sorry for the good projects that get overlooked because funders see this crap and it colors their view of indie MMO projects. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RuinalRuinal duhPosts: 195Member

    I think Kickstarters are now getting very little press if any.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70755535/dead-state-the-zombie-survival-rpg hasn't had much mention at all, but is very deserving. Brain Mitsoda was the guy behind Vampire : Bloodlines, was a lead at Troika and the game he is pitching should be kickass. I'd have expected this to be pulling in a million, but with 11 hours to go, I think hitting the 300k stretch goal will be a push. If a zombie rpg survival game which is more about managing the survivors than the zombies appeals, go pledge :)

    The initial kickstarter rush has died down and I don't think we'll see much of a resurgence until some high profile game projects deliver the goods. MMOs in particular will always be a hard sell on kickstarter because realistically they cost a lot, and there are so very many failure points where it could turn into a dud vs a regular game.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,675Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ruinal

    I think Kickstarters are now getting very little press if any.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70755535/dead-state-the-zombie-survival-rpg hasn't had much mention at all, but is very deserving. Brain Mitsoda was the guy behind Vampire : Bloodlines, was a lead at Troika and the game he is pitching should be kickass. I'd have expected this to be pulling in a million, but with 11 hours to go, I think hitting the 300k stretch goal will be a push. If a zombie rpg survival game which is more about managing the survivors than the zombies appeals, go pledge :)

    The initial kickstarter rush has died down and I don't think we'll see much of a resurgence until some high profile game projects deliver the goods. MMOs in particular will always be a hard sell on kickstarter because realistically they cost a lot, and there are so very many failure points where it could turn into a dud vs a regular game.

    A Kickstarter project's coverage/exposure is up to the person looking for funding, not Kickstarter. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SilverbarrSilverbarr AberdeenPosts: 306Member

    After seeing this post I actually went and backed Dead State, love the games the guy has worked on previously and fairly interested in this after watching the cover video.

     

    Half price games are always a great incentive ;)

     

    EDIT: Only 10 hours to go, so if anyone else is interested in zombie-survival RPG guess now is as good a time as any to back the project.

     

    M

    "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
    - Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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    Support the Indie Developers - Kickstarter

  • RuinalRuinal duhPosts: 195Member

    I'm talking all kickstarter game projects in general, not 'Kickstarter' itself. How many articles or even news snippets relating to kickstarter games have you seen over the past month on mainstream sites? Sweet fa over the past month.

    The OP should have said, 2 months ago there was a lot of positive press. There simply isn't anymore.

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Originally posted by Ruinal

    I'm talking all kickstarter game projects in general, not 'Kickstarter' itself. How many articles or even news snippets relating to kickstarter games have you seen over the past month on mainstream sites? Sweet fa over the past month.

    The OP should have said, 2 months ago there was a lot of positive press. There simply isn't anymore.

    Is it fault of the press or Kickstarter though?

    I back a few but nowadays there is a lot of copycats with little variations.

    Unless there is something unique I'm not going to back them.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • RuinalRuinal duhPosts: 195Member

    Dead State is pretty much as unique as it gets. I don't think I can name another proper rpg (not action rpg) based around survival, zombies, people and base management. Check it out :)

  • dauntSilverdauntSilver Huntsville, ALPosts: 146Member

    Why would I give money to amateurs trying to create a crap game? The first one looks like a spinoff of Runescape and the second one had nothing to show.. The artwork looked very unprofessional as well. I mean no offense, but I believe I would rather spend my 5 bucks on a happy kids meal than throw it out the window.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member

    If you can not put togeather a proper presentation AND show me something tangible (as in show me an idea thats in a working form, not just an idea on paper) I am not going to give you any money. Basically it comes down to put alittle effort into it or how am I going to trust you with my money that once I give you, I wont see again if if you take it and run. Truth is there have been scams on kickstarter that have had better presentations than the 2 you linked.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Why would i give money to a "hope"?

    I only spend money on games that i can play NOW. There is no point to fund kickstarter games. So many things can go wrong ..

    - the game may never be finished

    - design may change to something i dont like

    - it may be implemented badly

    Why would anyone pay for a game before there is even reviews? This is 10x worse than blindly buying into hype of a game without trying out a demo or read a review.

  • RuinalRuinal duhPosts: 195Member

    Well you miss the point of Kickstarter entirely ;) Namely, you fund the games *you* want to see made. Without kickstarter there would be few if any turn-based rpgs getting developed, now we have 3 potentially great ones on the horizon, being Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns and now Dead State. I funded all three of those (and a few more besides) because these kind of games just aren't being made anymore and *I* enjoy them and want to see more. If it takes a year to see the fruits of my investment, so be it. And heck, with the names behind those games it is nice just to back them simply to show my appreciation of their previous work.

    Dead State hit a little over 330k meeting all but 1 stretch goal. Pretty damn awesome and now I've another (potentially) great game to look forward to.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    Originally posted by SlickShoes

    I also just noticed that if you pledge $1000 or more you get a "plague" hahahah no wonder no one wants to pledge.

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  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

    Couple of replies from the devs behind the projects. Posted in order of the 2 links.

     

    Tim Vincent says:

    We ran for 60 days and then for 30 days, nobody is really interested in our project it seems.

     

    Stephen Ferjanec says:

    Thanks for the message. I really appreciate it. We are continuing to work on the game, even though the funding hasn't worked out. We can always restart the kickstarter campaign after it expires, and this next time we will be ready with screenshots and more information to share.

    You're right- people are looking for a finished game before they fund, especially for developers as unknown as us. But if we had a more finished game, we wouldn't need the kickstarter. A bit of a tricky situation.

    But no matter what, the game will get created. Its already something that has taken on a life of its own, with many different stories that have sprung up as we've worked on quests and mission design. Thanks for spreading the word for us, too. That's awesome, that helps us so much! If you have any ideas or suggestions, please let us know, too!

    Have a great weekend!

    Steve

     

    The first game the guy has sounded like he has given up. I do empathize with him but if he no longer has faith in his project, it's very hard for others to. Probably the last we will hear about of that game.

     

    The second guy is keeping a positive attitude and wanting to work to make the game more presentable. I hope he comes back with something more substantial. I will throw a few bucks in just in case. Right now it would seem like an empty gesture unless they have something amazing to show within the next few days.

     

    I think maybe if you guys have time send the Shatter of Stars game some messages on what they could do to garner your support. The person seems open and receptive to ideas so at least it doesn't seem like a waste of time to share your thoughts.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Ruinal

    Well you miss the point of Kickstarter entirely ;) Namely, you fund the games *you* want to see made. Without kickstarter there would be few if any turn-based rpgs getting developed, now we have 3 potentially great ones on the horizon, being Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns and now Dead State. I funded all three of those (and a few more besides) because these kind of games just aren't being made anymore and *I* enjoy them and want to see more. If it takes a year to see the fruits of my investment, so be it. And heck, with the names behind those games it is nice just to back them simply to show my appreciation of their previous work.

    Dead State hit a little over 330k meeting all but 1 stretch goal. Pretty damn awesome and now I've another (potentially) great game to look forward to.

    Well, what i want to see made are being made everyday without Kickstarter. Entertainment is in abundance in today's world and i have no interested in funding anything. I barely have enough time to play the games i like.

    Giving money to pipe dreams is not my cup of tea.

    I do enjoy turn-based strategy games. However, so what if they are not being made? I also enjoy FPS, and many other types of games which *are* being made. It is sad to resort to give money to wishful thinking. I have MUCH better use of my money. Plus, my $10 is not going to make any difference.

    If a kickstarter game is going to be made at the end, i will buy it then.

     

  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

    The person behind Quest put this update up.

     

    "I have to admit, when I first learned of this site, I was in awe of how it worked and how aamazing I found it to be that everyday folks could find funding to complete their projects. It seemed easy, put up your project, tell them about what your needs are, show them what you want to do, then be able to provide them with a product if they donate towards  your cause. I've personally seen many projects succeed of which I knew the people personally or through other connections. That being said, perhaps we are just not being taken seriously, or as my friend Tim put it, " all the money has dried up for ideas". I'd lke to think he was wrong. Perhaps we're just not being seen. We have taken our game to conventions, have showed people who have worked with EA games, pixar, Disney, Blizzard, and the list goes on, and they had nothing but good things to say, with a healthy dose of " you have to fix this, and or that" which is always good to hear feed back. Never have I seen something get so much praise, yet so little action. Our orginal goal was set at 500,000. Which seems like alot of money, it was however in line with other games goals and well within what we needed to have funding for. If we met our goal we were going to port the game over to an even better engine so those who donated could have that much more of a gaming experience. jWe could have hired local U.S. workers to help us complete the game and not take it over seas so 3 yr old chinese girls can work on it. we want to help our community by being able to give them jobs. It was not insane for us to ask for that amount, I was even told by people who worked on Skyrim that was kind of a low amount to shoot for, my response was, " well I didn't want to ask for too much, and I wanted people to know we were taking this very seriously.

    We showed game footage, introduced ourselves a little bit, tried a bit of humor but we have completely fallen on our face it would seem.

    By no means do I want to appear to be whining about not being funded, quite the contrary, I took the time, did research , watched other peoples videos, went over the list of do s and don'ts in the kickstarter advice section. After all that work and effort to find out exactly how to make the "perfect video" the only feed back we got was exactly the opposite of what was posted here online. *shrug*. So I will be saving up to produce a "professional video" produced by someone who is well versed in these things. perhaps my ugly mug scared off investors. We are serious and continue to work on the game with or without extra help. We are just a couple of poor guys, who taught themselves how to do this, so much connected to this game. So many hours, so much money already invested in it. Just to get a zero response... hard to take my friends hard to take...."

     

     

    Maybe you guys could send some of the concerns you had over to his box so he knows what to do next time. It sounded like he has given up but if he is going to reload and try again maybe he could use some tips to help make it more sucessful.

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