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Originally posted by rakasan The big difference is EQ2 never stopped introducing new content and expanding the game. Vanguard has been dead for years, with not even bug fixes let alone content. Without serious work Vanguard cannot support a full priced subscription model of any kind. All this "fake" F2P shuffle and jive will do is to expose a dated and flawed game to tens of thousands of new gamers, thereby tarnishing it's reputation even more. It's too bad - I was really looking forward to an LOTRO type model and coming back to VG. But pay full price fort he same game everyone left years ago? SoE really does hold theri customer base in low esteem.
This is a legit point, although VG is in much better state than it was at launch (when most people left). When SoE took over and started fixing up VG, it was under 30k already. When they finally gave up it was much less. However, most people acknowledge the game is in pretty good shape and light years ahead of the release product. And SoE expanded the staff (well, added a staff would be more accurate) for the conversion. Anyone who didnt play at launch wont run out of content for a very long time, and the plan is to add content if the conversion is successful. I dont blame people for being skeptical about that.
The game is more dated than flawed at ths point, with some of the most atrocious looking characters ever put onto an MMORPG landscape. It will be interesting to see how it works out. If VG can somehow get over 50k subs I could see SoE supporting it more. We will see, its pretty awful timing with one very good (but niche) game released this month already and GW2 on the horizon.
Sony's F2P play model is broken basically you cant interact or get a full game experiance withought shelling out 14.99 a month so what's the point. Time to look for something else unless you just want to waste a few hours.
They removed silver membership in the itnerest of players.
Everything SOE F2P does is try to convert players intoo paying subscribers as fast as possible. In the case of SOE there just isnt any other possibilitie if you truely want to enjoy the game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by finnmacool1 Joy? Lol!!! By far the worse of $oe free to login offerings. No global chat,restricted to "common" gear,15 quests max,2 bags,25 bank slots,1p max,etc. You wont even be able to level crafting or diplo with green only gear, and you will need to be carried to level adventuring.
Are you kidding me?NO global chat ,i wish that was in ALL games.The global chat i see in games now a days turns me righjt off,it makes me feel like quitting.
I spent 8 years in FFXI and for the first 4 or so,global chats were EXTREMELY rare.They were also not really global but global as in your whole zone.It was ONLY used well 99% of the time to ask for a certain group or alliance to do some really tough content.
I do not want to see global chat used as an Auction House or people arguing over what game is better or what class is better.
Seriously any vet gamer knows that NOTHING good comes of global chat,nothing but venting and arguing.
15 quests max,again nothing painful there,i often wish i woudl only do one at a time,i get overwhelmed when i grab 100 and don't finish any.
games need restrictions,nobody is going to throw a gam e out there for yo uto play free,they NEED to create ways to get you to spend.The whole f2p thing does not exist,it is merely a gimmick to hook people in then get them to spend when they would have never stepped into the game if not for the initial f2p status.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
i read their customer service part and instantly im turned off from ever touching this game. even if it went 100% free to play (asian style f2p) i dont agree with narfed CSR. i think thats bias and stupid as fk.. as well as quite insulting... as if a free player's issues are any less important then those of a paying player.
on top of their hugely crippled account offers they made games like POTBS's freedium and LoTR's look like asian F2P systems @_@
CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHzEvga GeForce 670 FTW Evga P55 SLI
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by sapheroith No, I cant enjoy the game perfectly fine when i have to trash the quest gear because i cant wear them. Psychological issue, not a gameplay issue No, its not really free to play compare to Aion There is more content available for free in Vanguard than there is an Aion. This isnt really debateable, go check out the number of dungeons VG has. And no, EQ2 model failed hard thats why many complained it. EQ2s activity before f2p and after f2p speaks for itself. Its getting activity comparable to Rift, as posted earlier. Just because people complain, doesnt mean it failed. The vast majority of complainers are people that want to play the game for free as if they had a sub, but thats just not going to happen because there has to be an incentive to sub
When i cant use the rewards from my quest, it is obviously gameplay issue.
I am not talking about content, i am talking about free to play. Sure there might be more dungeons, but why would i do a dungeon why i cant use a thing dropped from it? A true free to play is unrestricted access. Period.
More activity after swtiching to "F2P" is very typical, especially from a quality mmo. So i dont know what is your point. And i dont know how u define fail, since you think complaints are not an indicator. i can understand races and classes locked for vips, but all the rest are purely comical.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
The matrix seems to be missing Premium. Usually, games have a Free, Premium, and VIP. Wonder if they're going to add that and that's why Free is so limited. Would make sense.
People should stop whining in threads like this and go post on their forums. It says right in the message that they will be listening to feedback. If you've got a problem with something they're doing, speak up or go bump one of the threads already talking about it.
Really annoying when I see tons of people complaining about something..then I go to the proper place to complain about it and there's crickets chirping...and people wonder why games keep coming out with shitty ideas.
Here's one of the threads discussing some of the issues: http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=57641
I never thought the freemium model could get worse, but SOE has managed to pull it off
great job SOE
Was looking forward to this but SOE messed it up again. Won't even consider downloading the client.
Originally posted by Kenze the Vanguard community is NOT going to be welcoming to f2p users. they should open a New server(no xfers) when the game goes F2P
haha i played Vanguard over 2 years and the community is just so ignorant it's sad. They don't want anything new, even if it's better. They want to sit in their old chairs, for what reason? Vanguard was my first mmo, but it's not good anymore. A revamp of Vanguard is the only way to revive it and SoE shouldn't own a game. Give it to another company that cares and if no one cares, throw the game into the trash and never let it be played again. SoE is a bunch of 12 year olds with a mustache and a cigar who doesn't give a fuck about any of their customers. They spit you in the face.
Originally posted by William12 Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by William12 Subscriptions can be paid for with station cash.
SOE removed that option for EQ2 a few weeks ago
I doubt Vanguard will have it
Its in every game they have , but EQ2. I would assume it will be in Vanguard also.
I am pretty sure they removed it from EQ as well, I just logged in and only saw the options for a normal sub, no station cash sub options. I really doubt vanguard will have a station cash based sub option.
Hmm I think even AoC has a better system. . a level limit would be better than restricted items. Common only is pretty crazy.
I was hoping this would help the game population but I only see that happening short term. I guess when you have an already existing game it is harder to port over to FTP but LOTRO did a good job. Not sure what the mind set is behind this. Did the EQ2 version work well? I thought it didn't.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by GTwander Originally posted by Mannish Let me repeat this again. I am talkign about TOTAL SUBS because thats how you measure the success of a mmo. Success in the North, South, East and West. What part of that you dont understand?
I don't think that is fair, considering the differing methodologies behind what constitutes a 'subscription' over there (active pay-by-hour accounts), nor how widespread the genre and product loyalty is in places like S. Korea.
It's just impossible to compare.
Here is what that guy doesnt understand:
The reason NCSoft is able to do the f2p model for Aion and L2 is because the games were so bad *to the NA/EU audience* that no one really played them anyway. Yes, the asians like them. So the asian market can support the NA/EU F2P gamble, and it is a gamble to see if they make more money off f2p + item shop. Most games could not afford that type of gamble because they arent supported by an asian player base.
Simply put, Aion/L2 model wouldnt work for any game but Aion and L2 (maybe FFXI). Youll notice that City of Heroes (also NCSoft) uses a f2p system thats based off of the SoE model.
. LMAO, you dont even know what content is but I am the one that does not understand.
Originally posted by remyburke Common gear = bad idea. So close to being acceptable otherwise. Shame.
Agreed. Also, they could have left fishing in and increase the limit for plat. 1 is just not enough once you get into the upper levels. At least they gave disc, sorc, necro, and clerics. Some of the best classes. Especially disc. I love my disc. Feel sorry for the tanks and the melee dps. Warriors and rogues are pretty hard to lvl solo once you get into the upper levels.
I dont get it.
Shouldnt there be more options? Not just free trial of sorts (extended one though, but also extremely limited one) or regular $15 sub? If people werent willing to pay $15 sub before, what makes them think that all out of sudden players will subscribe in masses?
Its basically a dead game, that had no updates whatsoever for ages, and has like 400 active players, if that many. And they are selling it as the bestest 'f2p' game ever, if its gold membership price is anything to go by. Where will all those people willing to pay $15 come from, and where were they before?
This is even worse f2p offering than EQ2, and that game had what 8-9 years of active developement behind it? SoE definitely sports the worst version of f2p, and it seems they are quite proud of it. just when you thought it couldnt get much worse than eq2 they come up with... this
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Mannish I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO
Name a single piece of CONTENT that is restricted in Vanguard to free to play?
There is a difference between features and content....
Completely agree with this guy. Everything is open to you, you just cant do it in your crappy gear. But you are free to watch others doing it though, or even chat with them while they are playing some of that content.
but yea, its really not that restrictive.
Sure, maybe you cant wear 90% of in game items, access most of higher tier dungeons because you are wearing quest rewards gear, and cant equip anything better, even if you manage to find some. So what if you cant use auction house, your gold is limited anyways. Fine, you cant even play all classes available, but you still can play some! Maybe you cant send mails either, or do fishing, own a house, etc etc but other than that everything else is free.
kudos soe for such a brilliant f2p model, this game, which you spent so much money on its developement in past few years, deserves to be more expensive than other f2p's.
This is just a greedy company that cares more about nickel and dimeing people then delivering them a great gaming experience.
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Mannish Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Mannish I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO
And I see you have no idea what content is. The first things on the Vanguard Matrix are clearly labled CONTENT. Not wasting anymore time talking to you. Just give it up because as you see everybody other then you thinks this is just a total fail.
I would never consider things like number of races, number of bags and amount of gold you can carry as 'content'. These are features, regardless of how they are labeled. Content is actual questing, mob killing, dungeons...what you actually spend your time doing. Vanguard model does *not* restrict any of that. Yeah, at 55 with the high end raiding, good luck finding someone willing to take you along, but if you find someone willing you can go. But then, if you are doing end game content you should be subbing anyway. And these restrictions will only come into play for raiding, youll be able to group for dungeons and do everything else from 1-55.
FACT: you can enjoy the game perfectly fine and see an insane amount of content as a free to play player in Vanguard. There is more content a f2p person will be able to enjoy than there is in Aion.
EQ2 is proof enough that the model works.
Its not about what you consider or what you think. This is like talking to a brick wall.
Originally posted by sapheroith
Sure there might be more dungeons, but why would i do a dungeon why i cant use a thing dropped from it?
This sums up the people that have complaints about the model. There are people that do content because they enjoy content, or people that do content to acquire gear. Most of the latter will be in for a shock when they see VG dungeons arent typical WoW instances anyway, they are places to explore, not linear affairs with a set goal. In other words, if you are the type that sees content as a means to get gear, VG isnt for you with or without f2p.
Originally posted by Mannish This is just a greedy company that cares more about nickel and dimeing people then delivering them a great gaming experience.
If they were about nickel and diming, why wouldnt they remove the sub option and make a system like Runes of Magic where you need to spend more than 15 a month to be competitive? I don't think you understand what nickel and diming is. While SoE may offer unlocks, the system isnt about getting people to spend a buck here and a buck there so they are veentually spending more than 15 a month, its about getting people into the game so they sub.
But they arent interested in getting 200,000 people playing for an average of 3 dollars a month off the occasional race/class unlock, they are looking to get 50,000 people paying 15 a month for a full subscription. They arent interested in being a charity for people like you that never intend to pay a cent and expect the same experience as those who pay for a sub. I actually find it funny that you are calling someone else greedy.
Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Mannish This is just a greedy company that cares more about nickel and dimeing people then delivering them a great gaming experience.
Because they want you to subscribe AND pay through the cash shop. DUH! Sony really doesn't get the cash shop model very well at all. If EQ/EQ2/Vangaurd were new then it might make sense, but they are gouging.
If you want to enjoy their games you have to pay at every turning point. They do lock content behind purchases in EQ2 and they will if they ever actually add another content patch to this game.
I dropped from Gold in EQ2, boom, all the gear I earned is now unequipped until I pay to haave each piece unlocked. You want to enjoy the new content or classes? You have to buy them.
When I play Aion or STO everything is available to me and I can to enhance my character or game experience if I want to. I can pay them if and when I want to, not when I progress to the next level and need to re-equip more gear.
I agree SOE isn't trying to nickle and dime people. Its more bait and switch, "Come play are game for free; you will love it.-- Oh you can't really do anything? Just sub and you get to play the actual game"
SoE is being dishonest. They have ignored this game for years. It has pleanty of bugs and little to no improvements in terms of content or gameplay. Now they go ftp and lock down just about everything so you are pretty much forced to sub.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by teakbois Originally posted by Mannish This is just a greedy company that cares more about nickel and dimeing people then delivering them a great gaming experience.
This game had (again I say had) so much potential but its been living on life support far too long. I could no longer stay in this game and support a skeleton crew and continue to deal with issues that existed still from beta. This type of model just makes no sense at all. I don't understand why at this point they just don't pull the plug all together. A proper f2p model (I don't support any of them by the way but that's my personal opinion) should have been done two years ago. It is far too late now....
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
Don't know wwat SOE's numbers are, but this is too be expected. It's not F2P, it's Freemium. If it gives them the money, that's all they care about.
Oh, and look. People on the internet are surprised by this.
This is not F2P at all so I'm not even going to bother with it.