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I think Guild Wars 2 has made me realise I don't like large scale anything...

2

Comments

  • JohnnymmoJohnnymmo Salt lake, UTPosts: 99Member
    What annoys me is that pvp becomes so anonymous. You never know who you facing as they got no names. I used to relish facing the big names in wow eu like endbringer. You d build a rep for being skilled
  • ZeroxinZeroxin LondonPosts: 2,521Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Haha, unfortunately you did.

    This is not a game.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Johnnymmo
    What annoys me is that pvp becomes so anonymous. You never know who you facing as they got no names. I used to relish facing the big names in wow eu like endbringer. You d build a rep for being skilled

    Well, that is one of the bad things in massive PvP. You can always do like Manfred Von Richtoffen (who painted his plane red to install fear in his enemies) and have very specific gear and coloring so people will recognize you but it never will be the same as in smaller PvP.

    If you truly want a rep you should focus on 5 Vs 5 instead.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    If you truly don't like playing w/ a lot of other players, that's understandable. However, some of your points in the OP don't make a lot of sense.

    As others have touched on, GW2 actually does have a fair amount of solo content, or small-group content. You just need to get away from the zergs. Don't follow them if you don't like them. The world is more than large enough to avoid a zerg mob if you don't want to roll w/ them. This same thing applies to PvP as well w/ WvW. I see these complaints all the time (and not just with this game) of 'it's just the same old ranged zerg-fest we always get!'. Well, the thing is, it's not. You actually have pleanty of tools to deal w/ the standard 'range zerg' you find. You just have to use them. Hell, some of my best times in WvW were as a melee character. Rolling w/ a small group and intercepting / fighting around the zerg.

    Games like this shine when you exercise free thought, and try and come up w/ your own way of playing. Too many people only dig as deep as what's in front of them. They don't try and find an alternative, or see what's beyond. In PvE, a lot of the fun is going off on your own, discovering new things / events, and just exploring the world. You don't need a zerg to do that, and it's way more fun if you don't have one.

    I'm wondering if what the OP wants is basically another TOR. An MMO designed to spoon-feed heroic moments like a single player game does. Where instead of making your own moments, which are memorable because you made them that way, the game dictates it all for you. If this is the case, then I'd agree with some that MMOs may not be the right type of game for you.

  • austriacusaustriacus limaPosts: 611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Magnetia

    Sounds like you'd enjoy a lobby based action pvp game or MOBA. League of Legends? Dota2? 

    Small scale. All the time. Instant action. Make a HUGE difference in battle as 1/5. Skilled pvp. Easy to learn hard to master. 

     

    As for zergin in WvW that's boring and you don't make a difference because you are the zerg or fighting the zerg. What feels cool in WvW is when you take a small group maybe 7-10 people and take out smaller bases while the zerg moves on. Stop being a sheep and stop following the zerg if you want to stop feeling useless.

    Me I love the large scale everything in GW2. I want to be in a WORLD not a carefully constructed instance. 

    You really might want to look at lobby based action arena games. However if you are a noob then you will get yelled at. We all get yelled at. 

    MMOs really aren't for you XD

     

     

    The orange bit made me laugh out loud, 10,000 internetz if anyone can tell me why?

    Im guessins its because all MMOs are essentially exactly what he said, not matter how they try to hide it.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Johnnymmo
    What annoys me is that pvp becomes so anonymous. You never know who you facing as they got no names. I used to relish facing the big names in wow eu like endbringer. You d build a rep for being skilled

    Well, that is one of the bad things in massive PvP. You can always do like Manfred Von Richtoffen (who painted his plane red to install fear in his enemies) and have very specific gear and coloring so people will recognize you but it never will be the same as in smaller PvP.

    If you truly want a rep you should focus on 5 Vs 5 instead.

    I understand where he's coming from. There is something about seeing a person's name that just adds inherent meaning to the combat, even though it really doesn't matter. The regonition definitely does add something.

    However, Loke, you also have a good point. Even in the beta weekends if I did a decent amount of WvW I could pick out who was who from the enemy team. I knew who I'd killed, who killed me, which ele tended to play a certain way, etc. Sometimes it was based on their gear, but more often then not it was based off their actions. You can identify an enemy just by how they move / act on the battlefield. It really doesn't take much. The guild tags also help a ton w/ that identification, and the animosity that Johnny's talking about has basically been shifted from the individual, to the guild.

    So instead of 'look! It's crapburger40! kill him!' it's now 'goddamnit! not cheezeguild again!'. There were already a few rivalries in the BWEs, but I expect we'll see a lot more guild rivalries after launch.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    image

  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 454Member Uncommon

    I think it will evolve towards smallerscale combat over time.

    Was the same in DAoC, when it was new, it was just a huge fun zergball in Emain, but over time, it became more and more about group vs group and good fights.

    Even though there were always zergs, you still knew each and every good enemy or enemy group on your server and there was a lot of smallscale fun to be had.

    You knew where to go to find each, depending on what you were in the mood for. Fun for everyone.

    Not to mention that a good group could wreak havoc even against a midsize zerg.

  • MeowheadMeowhead New Carlisle, INPosts: 3,716Member
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    Just like the majority of modern MMORPGs, you don't actually need to talk to people to play.

    Unlike them, you're at least interacting with other people on some level, and you don't have to specifically try to stay out of their way.

    Also, I was in groups about 90%+ of the time in both betas and the stress test, so I had plenty of communication.  Play with other people!  You get to plan better tactics, and talk more.  You can even group with strangers, believe it or not.

  • JabasJabas Caldas da RainhaPosts: 1,207Member Common

    When i read ppl talking about "skills" around i bealive its "personal fighting skill", wich is a nice think for Skyrim for example.

    But when we are in a MMO i thought there is other type of "skills" involve:

    - The skill of organize a group.

    - The skill of knowing how to play in group.

    - The skill of organize a group bigger then the enemy to have a little advantage (not allways the bigger group wins)

    - The skill of knowing when to suport allies or attack enemys.

    - ...

     

    For me in a MMO, theres much more "skills" then only the "personal fighting skill".

    But maybe im outdated and dont know anymore what is a MMO.... image

     

  • VesaviusVesavius BristolPosts: 7,648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

     

    My advice is not to expect to make that many friends in the PvE side of things... like you say, there is no need for communication and the action orientated gameplay means hands are constantly busy. No global channel etc severely cuts down on the server community building as well.

     

    My advice though is get a guild (or two, or three)- it enrichens the game 100% and, once the intitial zerg has washed past them and you can see the full run of events clearly, the DEs become great small group (guild) content.

    This game will be about guild communities, not a wider community. How this will work out in the long run we shall see.

     

    As for the OP... Like I say, once the masses have moved past the DEs they become perfect small group content. That mixed with viable small group WvW and the BGs make it a great game if you choose to avoid the crowds. Don't judge the game on everyone being packed in to the same area in a beta. Our little group's plan, at launch, is to just go out and grind for crafting mats and loot for the first day or two to give the launch wave of players time to move on. Then we will settle down to play the events.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,045Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jabas

    When i read ppl talking about "skills" around i bealive its "personal fighting skill", wich is a nice think for Skyrim for example.

    But when we are in a MMO i thought there is other type of "skills" involve:

    - The skill of organize a group.

    - The skill of knowing how to play in group.

    - The skill of organize a group bigger then the enemy to have a little advantage (not allways the bigger group wins)

    - The skill of knowing when to suport allies or attack enemys.

    - ...

    For me in a MMO, theres much more "skills" then only the "personal fighting skill".

    But maybe im outdated and dont know anymore what is a MMO.... image

    Group dynamics is indeed still important but it is actually more important in games without trinity than in regular trinity games.

    However sounds OP like a person most of us here would call a "soloer", someone that usually play by himself, and they have their own way of seeing skills.

    Nothing wrong with soloers though, but TOR is a better game for players like that than GW2.

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    Just like the majority of modern MMORPGs, you don't actually need to talk to people to play.

    Unlike them, you're at least interacting with other people on some level, and you don't have to specifically try to stay out of their way.

    Also, I was in groups about 90%+ of the time in both betas and the stress test, so I had plenty of communication.  Play with other people!  You get to plan better tactics, and talk more.  You can even group with strangers, believe it or not.

    Considering how DE's are a step up from Rifts DE's, i was expecting a lot more communication from players. Also GW2' DE's are more complex in nature but somehow it made no difference. I was still playing with mute people who just wanted to get done with content and move on to the next one.

    And yes trust me i tried to talk a lot and communicate but people around me were not interested. I still have to give this game a try with my guildies but really disappointed on PVE sides of things in terms of communication and the feel that you are actually playing with others.

    image

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by Meowhead
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    Just like the majority of modern MMORPGs, you don't actually need to talk to people to play.

    Unlike them, you're at least interacting with other people on some level, and you don't have to specifically try to stay out of their way.

    Also, I was in groups about 90%+ of the time in both betas and the stress test, so I had plenty of communication.  Play with other people!  You get to plan better tactics, and talk more.  You can even group with strangers, believe it or not.

    Considering how DE's are a step up from Rifts DE's, i was expecting a lot more communication from players. Also GW2' DE's are more complex in nature but somehow it made no difference. I was still playing with mute people who just wanted to get done with content and move on to the next one.

    And yes trust me i tried to talk a lot and communicate but people around me were not interested. I still have to give this game a try with my guildies but really disappointed on PVE sides of things in terms of communication and the feel that you are actually playing with others.

    They are more complex but they do NOT require complex cooperation in order to complete them.

    You don't need to plan and because of game mechanics you also don't need to formally group - thus they don't require talking, planning and actual cooperation other than to be in same place smashing monsters head everyone by himself.

    So their complexity is more to make those DE appeal more for soloer, or rather "playing alonge together" type of gameplay.

     

    GW2 game and DE would have to be designed diffretnly and have certain mechanics diffrent to actual require more complex cooperation like i.e. talking before a fight, planning strategy, healing or protecting others, etc

     

    Almost all of open world GW2 content in made for 'non formal' 'playing alone together' grouping.

     

    If order for people to communicate content, game mechanics and DE would have to REQUIRE (so actually force) cooperation.

    It would have been more interesting (for me anyway), but it would decrease GW2 popularity propablty - since there would be cries about 'foced grouping'.

     

    GW2 in it's design is made for very casual and very mainsteram gameplay.

     

    GW2 is made to attract very big playerbase, so it is no surprise it made that way - even if it will disappoint more dedicated / hardcore mmorpg crowd. 

     

    For open world grouping that would require actual cooperation and communication frequently - well if you looking for that you need to find other game.

    I think it is important to realise that sooner than later.

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

    If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

  • JohnnymmoJohnnymmo Salt lake, UTPosts: 99Member
    Sorry but fighting the shadow behemoth was not very complex. It was boss mechanics at the most basic. Just a zerg. No communication at all between players. I understand they cant be complex because of the player base but this was extremely uninspiring
  • GaendricGaendric Posts: 454Member Uncommon

    I agree to what fenistil said.

    Developers are almost in a lose lose situation. Either people complain that there is forced grouping or they complain that it's too solo oriented and there is too little socializing and community.

    It would be interesting to have a game where different areas are played differently in this regard. Just to see where most people go. How many would prefer the more oldschool grouping over the solo stuff? Who knows.

    Personally, I prefer group play. I like socializing while leveling. But that's personal taste, wouldn't blame others for choosing to solo.

  • rwyanrwyan raleigh, NCPosts: 461Member

    I do think 'public quests' tend to succumb to the zerg factor.  They did in WAR and they did in Rift.  They can be extremely fun and challenging for a group of players though - kind of like an open world raid.

  • rwyanrwyan raleigh, NCPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by Gaendric

    I agree to what fenistil said.

    Developers are almost in a lose lose situation. Either people complain that there is forced grouping or they complain that it's too solo oriented and there is too little socializing and community.

    It would be interesting to have a game where different areas are played differently in this regard. Just to see where most people go. How many would prefer the more oldschool grouping over the solo stuff? Who knows.

    Personally, I prefer group play. I like socializing while leveling. But that's personal taste, wouldn't blame others for choosing to solo.

    The problem is that there is no inbetween really.  Its either pure solo content or end-game content designed for full groups of players.

    The fact that games now need to include a "content finder" is kind of sad.  I remember in the good ole days of EQ, you could party up with 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 more players and find fun, engaging content to do.  It didn't matter what your party size was, there was always something there for you.

    Now, a bulk of the MMO is "solo" content with the ridiculous grindy end-game.  Devs need to find a way to strike a balance.

  • BenkestokBenkestok kjellerupPosts: 17Member

    OP, dont bother with all the sheeps, they just enjoy finding comfort in the zerg-blob, so that their obvious lack of "skills" aint put in display.

    Anyways, i do understand what your saying, but on the other hand, im sure you would enjoy large scale pvp, if they made players make a diffrence. The thing, that the companies does theese days, kinda kills it though. There is no penality to the zerg,   basicly the mechanics the companies introduces enforces zerg play, forexample being able to run back/die with no form on penality. You dont get zerg games in hon, why? Cause dying matters, if you die to many times, its a free win to the other team. In a mmo, its kinda like, "oh i died? Guess ill just rofl back and join the zerg again, and take part in this awsome pvp, which basicly is turned into a gear grind, where time spent in the zerg is what matters". 

    So yeah, the sheep-mentality is what is killing games, its not the large scale nature of the batttles.  The sheeps doesnt like the fact though, that they are sheeps, so they will generally rage and say, you should go back to whatever game, so they can live happyli in their sheep-bubble. Sad thing is, RL doesnt reward sheeps, so yeah, i kinda pity them.

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Cromica

    Pretty sure mmos are not for you.

    Seconded.

    Super Mario Bros. pairs you with one of two brothers where you alone get to conquor a hostile environment and save a Princess.

    Stick to that OP.

    a yo ho ho

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

    If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

    I would say it is 50 / 50 fault. Players won't bother communicating unless the game incorporates that level of team work and involvement where players have to cummunicate and progress further. It can be done without forcing it on players. Atleast that is what i think.

    If everyone just stick to RL friends and guildies what fun it would be? the real appeal of GW2 DE's is to play with 100's of other players, just rush in in with random strangers and work towards common objective. Now  if only felt that you are actually playing with others it would be perfect.

    image

  • 3-4thElf3-4thElf Elftown, MEPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ
    Originally posted by Chilliesauce
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

    If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

    Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

    Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

    That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

    If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

    I would say it is 5 / 50 fault. Players won't bother communicating unless the game incorporates that level of team work and involvement where players have to cummunicate and progress further. It can be done without forcing it on players. Atleast that is what i think.

    Well it was done before.

    UO had some great moments where players had to communicate in a large scale to either successfully tear down or defend various points.

    Shadowbane and a few other games like that also had large scale battles that wasn't forced into a 1 v 1 or 1 v 1 v 1 even situation. I remember plenty of times when rune spawn points would become pvp battles with at the least 5 factions fighting  and upwards to many dozen. 

    Safe gamers want more control than that tho'. Game companies have more control by limiting it as well.

    Overall it's just how humans are split.

    There are those that like to lead, those that like to follow, and those who think it's better to just get the hell out of the way.

    I'd like to see more freedom in MMOs to where large scale battles meant a bit more than timed scenarios. But we're where we're at because most players can't handle freedom.

    a yo ho ho

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    One thing I take from the OP's post is that he still thinks there are separate ranged and melee professions in GW2. I think it's possible that some of what you're experiencing can be summed up in a meme... You're doing it wrong.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Johnnymmo
    Sorry but fighting the shadow behemoth was not very complex. It was boss mechanics at the most basic. Just a zerg. No communication at all between players. I understand they cant be complex because of the player base but this was extremely uninspiring

    Yeah... I definitely expected more from a level 15 boss just outside the starting areas. image

     

    ANet's made it clear that the complexity ramps up as you progress in the game. The Behemoth is your basic "Introduction to World Bosses 101" training boss. You see him emerge, crap your pants and have fun taking him down as you learn basic mechanics, such as the importance of getting out of the red circles, knowing when to change to the appropriate targets at the right time, etc.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

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