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F2P games are EXPENSIVE!

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  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Funny, I've never spent a cent in any F2P game.  Ever.  Never will either.  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.

    It only costs you if you CHOOSE to pay.  Otherwise, nobody is holding a gun to your head.

    Your like the guy that drives a piece of crap car around with a bumper sitcker that says dont laugh its paid for, well guess what were all laughing.  And there are plenty of people that drive around really nice cars that ARE paid for.

    F2P crowd bottom feeders

    P2P crowd the rest of us

  • Kykyryz-aKykyryz-a AlmatyPosts: 113Member

    Its always been this way  F2P games cost more to play to average player with money.  i personally dont see a problem here if its not Pay 2 win situation im always giving money to devs. even if its browser game like  Settlers  if somethg  is good  and keep you playing why not to spend $ you "saved"  while playing 1 game and not buying or trying others.

    and if game really good and you can resist some temptation  you can play free all the time. its just a bit hard for some people to  have  rare closed chest  in inventory  + credit card with money on it+ key in ingame shop :)

     

    Im always for cosmetic things in F2P B2P games  like weapon looks Costumes  maybe animation or emotes even if it will cost more than 15$ a month as if game keeps me at home on friday night well im "saving" 50+$  why not to rewards devs  with some hehe.

    But if i see mounts  armor weapon in shop   /quit. 

    image

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    F2P means you don't have to buy the game in the first place, you don't need to buy anything until you feel like you "need" to. You won't quit after a few weeks with a hole in your pocket. You can try it, usually they're quite easygoing in the beginning, and you get to decide when you spend money on something. Of course if you spend a LOT of time in the game you'll be tempted a lot and P2P may be the cheaper option. If you're more casual and  don't jump at every occassion to spend money, it can be enjoyable up to a point. The cash shop always around the corner with the potential of giving paying costumers and advantage over others.

    If you play a lot, get "hooked" and want to "win" the game and you can't control yourself in terms of spending, then yes, you should have stayed with P2P games, because you'll be spending a lot of money to make up for thaose players that can control themselves.

    imageimage
  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    Im not quite sure I follow the OP's opinion here really . Many games are doing well again with viabrant communities because they went to a free to play system. Most good free to play games out there , mentioned here at least are freemiums that used to be triple A titles and now you can either pay 15 bucks a month and sub for 30 days or buy perks and other junk. If you have half a brain and can withstand an addictive personality then you should just avoid games that you can see a mile away are for suckers to play. I personally wish games like DAOC and WAR would go free to play and sell content by the teir etc that way more players would come back to those games.

    Mentioning games to avoid is more like what should be done but you can see from populations on games which ones screw over players (IE look at Allods online population & any perfect world game or Gpotato) sometimes man you just gotta use your brain and do a little research before you get into a game. But saying that free to play in general is bad , yes maybe the asian versions of it but most american companies seem pretty fair to me.

    Also if you REALLY want to hate on something hate on greedy companies like blizzard and now Funcom for adding cash shops to sub fees and box fees.

  • Ashen_XAshen_X PLEASANT HILL, CAPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There are a huge number of different business models that call themselves "free to play", and they shouldn't all be lumped in together.

    ^^^This.

    When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.

  • hundejahrehundejahre Chicago, ILPosts: 339Member


    Originally posted by Ocenica
    If something is free your either going to wind up paying too much for it, or it's not worth anything.   I have been reading quite a lot about how F2P could replace traditional subs and I'm going to let you guys in on a little secret.  You really don't want that to happen.   It sounds like your going to get to play a game for free, never fork over any cash and just love every second of it.  Sorry, that is NOT going to happen.These companies can sometimes employ up to hundreds of people that have familes to support.  They don't work for free the same as you wouldn't work for free.  Someone has to pay up and eventually, if you do get hooked, that will be you.  Oh, and saying you won't get hooked doesn't work either.  If your reading something on MMORPG your probably already familiar with being hooked on some mmo at some point so don't even try that silly argument. You know it can happen.So lets say you do get hooked.  Well then instead of a measly $15 a month (if your cheap and only pay 1 month at a time / who does that?!) Your going to get nickle and dimed to death.  I'll give you an example. My best friend Steve (that's his real name too!) stoped playing WoW because he said it cost to much.  Blah blah blah $15 a month for those Aholes who are already rich Blah Blah Blah.  He went off to play some F2P game .  Well, after much nudging he came back after about a year, but he said the reason he came back was because when he figured up all the $2-$5 purchases he made, he was spending an average of $50 a month!!Don't buy into the F2P.  Avoid it, beat it off with a stick, it's a zombie irl.  Pony up $15 for a month and give it a shot.  If you love it, then great, the entertainment is cheap.  If you hate it, $15 for 30 days is still sooooo cheap.  You can't buy that kind of entertainment anywhere.  Not at a strip club, not at a movie theater.  Not driving around town because your bored since you don't have anything to do because you didn't want to spend a couple of bucks and enjoy your free time.STOP BEING SO DAMN CHEAP!  Your huring yourself. FYI, no i don't work for any game companies. 

    If your friend didn't realize he was making 17-25 micro transactions a month, he's an idiot. Most of the F2P games people are playing here USED TO BE P2P AND FAILED, that's not our fault. I played EQ for years, I played WoW for years. Both were good games, but I was done. Find me a game that doesn't suck and I might be willing to pony up and pay $15 a month, but then GW2 is the only game that interests me at the moment and it's B2P, a sub isn't even an option.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    Companies are out to make money and its as simple as that.. Anyone who thinks they are going to get everything for nothing should be locked away..

     

    On average people spend more on so called f2p games than they would on sub games.. either that or they play for a few weeks then realise they need to spend money and quit to go searching for the next free game lol... or come on here and complain about sub games..

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Another thread about people who do not understand that F2P does not mean "do not pay ever for anything"...

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hundejahre

     

    If your friend didn't realize he was making 17-25 micro transactions a month, he's an idiot. Most of the F2P games people are playing here USED TO BE P2P AND FAILED, that's not our fault. I played EQ for years, I played WoW for years. Both were good games, but I was done. Find me a game that doesn't suck and I might be willing to pony up and pay $15 a month, but then GW2 is the only game that interests me at the moment and it's B2P, a sub isn't even an option.

    You do realise GW2 will make most of its money from micro transactions in its cash shop right?

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    You do realise GW2 will make most of its money from micro transactions in its cash shop right?

    At least in Guild Wars 2 the Cash Shop isn't essential in order to play, you can avoid buying anything from there and still be competitive, there is no P2W. In other words for lots of people it is going to cost only the box price and nothing more, others can pay some more as they see fit

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,583Member Uncommon

    I think it would be more accurate to say that F2P games cost unkown amount of money than to say that they are expensive.

    With a P2P game you'll know how much money playing it would cost before you even buy the game. Box price + sub cost is easy to calculate, and you'll know of any coming expansion months before it's released.

    F2P game will likely cost around the same on average: The devs need the money and they couldn't run it if active players paid only a fraction of what those playing P2P games actively pay. But the price is not same for every player, depending on your playstyle, preferences, playing time, and how the game and cash shop is build you might end up playing comfortably if you pay only a few dollars each month, or be required to pay 50$/month to enjoy your playtime. There's no way to know in advance what you'll end up doing in the game, and any estimation of the game's costs you make is just a quess. You might be able to play hundreds of hours for very cheap, then hit a roadblock where you're forced to shell out 50$/month to continue playing, or abandon the character you love and the friends you liked playing with.

    Personally I prefer P2P without cash shop (or a cash shop with purely cosmetic items), or B2P because then I'll know in advance what I'll have to pay to see and experience everything in the game, and stay playing with my friends as long as I like.

  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member
    Originally posted by Ocenica

    If something is free your either going to wind up paying too much for it, or it's not worth anything.  

     

    I have been reading quite a lot about how F2P could replace traditional subs and I'm going to let you guys in on a little secret.  You really don't want that to happen.   It sounds like your going to get to play a game for free, never fork over any cash and just love every second of it.  Sorry, that is NOT going to happen.

    These companies can sometimes employ up to hundreds of people that have familes to support.  They don't work for free the same as you wouldn't work for free.  Someone has to pay up and eventually, if you do get hooked, that will be you.  Oh, and saying you won't get hooked doesn't work either.  If your reading something on MMORPG your probably already familiar with being hooked on some mmo at some point so don't even try that silly argument. You know it can happen.

    So lets say you do get hooked.  Well then instead of a measly $15 a month (if your cheap and only pay 1 month at a time / who does that?!) Your going to get nickle and dimed to death.  I'll give you an example. 

    My best friend Steve (that's his real name too!) stoped playing WoW because he said it cost to much.  Blah blah blah $15 a month for those Aholes who are already rich Blah Blah Blah.  He went off to play some F2P game .  Well, after much nudging he came back after about a year, but he said the reason he came back was because when he figured up all the $2-$5 purchases he made, he was spending an average of $50 a month!!

    Don't buy into the F2P.  Avoid it, beat it off with a stick, it's a zombie irl.  Pony up $15 for a month and give it a shot.  If you love it, then great, the entertainment is cheap.  If you hate it, $15 for 30 days is still sooooo cheap.  You can't buy that kind of entertainment anywhere.  Not at a strip club, not at a movie theater.  Not driving around town because your bored since you don't have anything to do because you didn't want to spend a couple of bucks and enjoy your free time.

    STOP BEING SO DAMN CHEAP!  Your huring yourself.

     

    FYI, no i don't work for any game companies.

     

    Your friend Steve is an idiot. He is the one that will pay for the rest of us. People like me MIGHT drop $50 in a YEAR. Stuff like inventory/bank space ect.

    Sure F2P can be really expensive. But only if you arent smart enough to avoid little traps like "Hey buy this shiney new toy that lets you talk to the whole server. Its only a dollar and has 10 uses!" Or buying cosmetic items when you cant sport that awesome looking pirates outfit anytime you want. Or that enhancement stone that just cost you $5 to get +1 to your weapon without a chance of failing. Wait that +1 really doesnt do much? Doesnt matter you cant controll yourself.

     

    Point is F2P survive off people who CANT controll themselves are are to stupid to pay attention to what they are spending every time they buy something.

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf LondonPosts: 2,269Member

    Here's the thing I don't get and this thread is a prime example of it. It's full of posts saying 2 things, "the devs have to make money for the game to continue running", I think we can all agree with this. Those posts are only outnumbered by those proclaiming that they have been playing f2p games for 2-5 years and in all that time have spend miniscule amounts of money or nothing at all. Now I'm no mathematician but we either have a very focused group of f2p players here at mmorpg.com and there is another forum somewhere with f2p gamers complaining about having spend millions on the game. Or people talk utter shit, I'm going to go with the latter (hey I'm a realist).

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • HurvartHurvart ystadPosts: 565Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Hurvart

    If I play a F2P game I will actually spend a fortune. I will want everything that can boost my character or help me progress faster. And I will use everything all the time. This is why I dont play F2P games. Because I know I will spend way to much if I get hooked and cant stop playing a game like that. And if I dont buy and use evrything I will not have fun. I guess it is my powergamer attitude. If there are advantages I can have I must get them and use them. And I cant stop thinking about them when I play. And very soon I will go to the CS and spend spend spend...

    So you have no self control.  Whose fault is that?

    I have self control. I use that to say no and avoid playing any cash shop games at all. Just like I am a former heavy smoker. If someone offers me one ciggarett and I say yes and smoke it it will be bad. Because a few days later I will smoke 3packs/day and will not be able to quit again without professional help. I use my self control to say no to the first cig. There are things I should never do. Because I know it will get out of control.

    And its a type of personality. Its not anyones fault. You are born with it. All you can do is to learn to live with it. And understand what sort of things you should never do.

  • JohnnymmoJohnnymmo Salt lake, UTPosts: 99Member
    Thing is with gw2 is the keys to unlock the boxes. Lot less key drops thr boxes. So you think you ll wait for a key to drop or buy it at the cash shop? You ll buy it of course Cause you Are dieing to find out whats inside. Very clever arenanet
  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon

    So if you play a Free2play and don't spend a penny are they still expensive? 

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by mrw0lf

    I'm no mathematician

    I think I found your problem...


    How F2P work:

    On average, the revenue per active player is lower than P2P games but the active player base is larger because the game is easier to access(no fee before hand).

    Example in numbers:

    P2P game has 100k subs with 15 USD monthly fee, generating 1.5M USD per month.
    F2P game has 300k active players with 5 USD revenue per active user, generating 1.5 USD per month.


    There are pros and cons for each model.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Hurvart

    I have self control. ...Just like I am a former heavy smoker. If someone offers me one ciggarett and I say yes and smoke it it will be bad. Because a few days later I will smoke 3packs/day and will not be able to quit again without professional help.

    I do not think you understand what self-control is...

  • mrw0lfmrw0lf LondonPosts: 2,269Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by mrw0lf

    I'm no mathematician


    I think I found your problem...
    How F2P work:

    On average, the revenue per active player is lower than P2P games but the active player base is larger because the game is easier to access(no fee before hand).

    Example in numbers:

    P2P game has 100k subs with 15 USD monthly fee, generating 1.5M USD per month.
    F2P game has 300k active players with 5 USD revenue per active user, generating 1.5 USD per month.


    There are pros and cons for each model.


    I think I may have found you're problem also, that arithmetic part is just too much for the literary. I went through the thread to find actual accounts of the amounts spent, averaged they weren't nearly $5 a month try $1.50 (that didn't include those saying 'you could pay nothing').

    Perhaps I am a mathematician afterall, you need to increase your population as shown in your example above in orders of magnitude greater than that of the difference between the sustained average monthly spend and sub value. After using the first hand examples given by posters in this thread that would mean to equate to a 100k population and $15 sub requireing a population around 1 million ($1.50 per month being the everage here). That's just to make the same money.

    No, sorry that's just not how it works. An elite margin at the top spending huge quantities keep these games afloat and they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

    -----
    “The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus

          The OP complains about it being too expensive then doesn't even list one f2p game where he/she paid too much money......I've been playing them since 2005 and have spent a total of 90 dollars....How many p2p players can say that?

    Then you must have been bored out of your tree! Because if you don't end up spending any kind of cash in a F2P game you are limited to the content you can enjoy or vice versa on how far you can get in the game.

    Yes I agree with the OP , P2P is way cheaper, and those of you who say that F2P games are, thats actualy really funny, LOTRO you have to pay per area , and also some other interesting things.

    The only F2P game I found that was half way decent was Fallen earth, but that game has issues LOL

  • JabasJabas Caldas da RainhaPosts: 1,207Member Common

    Nowadays the big diference between F2P and P2P is not the same it was 10years ago.

     

    10years ago:

    P2P = pay each monthh to have acess to ALL features/itens in-game.

    F2P = have free acess to the game and then some features/itens cost money in CC.

     

    Nowadays:

    P2P = pay each month to have acess to MOST features/itens in-game, then you have some in CC that cost money.

    F2P = Have free acess to the game and then some features/itens cost money in CC.

     

    I dont like nowadays P2P model of most games because its connected to a CC.

    I was a defender of the P2P model in the pass, but now the way it have changed, i defend F2P or B2P model. They both have CC but at least im not forced to give them 15 bucks per month to play the game.

    Im not a fan of GW2 but i hope it make a huge sucess so the other companys start thinking of the their payment model.

    Pay each month to play with CC most end, i really hope it dies soon.

     

    So, wich model can be more expensive again?

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Disdena
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky These threads usually put a smile on my face as the "I pay nothing!" players pipe in with their deeds of stinginess. They never think about if 90% of the gamers played the way they did? Well... F2P would become a model of the past. I do applaud those that can play F2P without spending a dollar. They must be in heaven. I just wish they would open their eyes and realize that someone is keeping their free game afloat. Players DO exist that spend quite a lot in the cash shops and that in turn supports the true free players.

    If you're claiming that you know a F2P game where fewer than 90% of the players play for free, cite your source, please.



    I tried to come up with a % that would make mathematical sense and not get into the absurd. I figured 90% was a good spot. Am I wrong? Are there games out there where 90% of the population do not pay a single cent? If there are, I am truly flabbergasted.

    Think about it. Someone used the example of 100K P2P players all paying $15 a month. 1.5 Million dollars a month for the gaming company. Now, take a F2P game and triple the population (since it is much more accessible) and the average a player has to spend in a month to make the same amount as the P2P model is $5 a month. That seems feasible. But you are telling me that 90% of these players (roughly 270K) are paying nothing? That leaves 1.5 Million dollars spread out among 30K players. THAT seems outrageously high to me. I guess it is possible.

    To answer your question, I cannot claim to know a F2P game where 90% of their playerbase spends nothing. Can you? Are these figures readily available? What I DID do, however, was deduce a percentage that made sense to me mathematically. I could very well be wrong. I gave a hypothetical situation (a game with 90% of the players paying nothing) and you took it quite literal.

    I hope you at least got my point. SOMEONE is paying the bills. Players who pay nothing to play seem so proud of their leeching that I just wanted them to realize that without those who pay, they would have no game to play. If everyone played as they do, there would be no F2P models in the marketplace. They seem quick to call down upon the stupidity of those who do pay to play, trying to belittle them at every turn with "purchases of pixels". They do not seem to realize these players make their beloved F2P possible. Maybe just ease up on those who support their habit.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ChilliesauceChilliesauce MelbournePosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Sameer1979

    Not all F2P MMOS work on same basis as LOTRO and DDO but even then best deal is to stick to monthly sub for F2P titles. F2P is just a gimmick and ends up hurting your pocket even more.

    If they compromise their gameplay for a dollar, they're not worth playing.  So don't play and don't pay.  Pretty simple.

    Stick with the quality F2P games which either don't compromise their gameplay at all (LoL, Tribes, SMNC) or compromise it only a teeny tiny amount (DDO, LOTRO, EQ2).

    All 6 of those examples only offer lateral unlocks and not pay2win power purchasing.  As a direct result, I've dumped a lot of money into most of those games.  The more gamers who follow suit, the better integrity you'll see in F2P games because companies will be concerned with quality and integrity first and not sell pay2win things (because it won't work.)

    I have tried playiing EQ2 on F2P model and it is very restrictive. And EQ2 is just one example. If people enjoy playing F2P with restrictions good for them but for those who don't sticking to monthly sub is best deal.

    When i want to play a MMO i want to enjoy it without restriction and want access to entire game without paying for classes, bag slots, dungeons unlocks. And for that 15 bucks a month is best deal. So does it matter for me if games is F2P? nope. 

    The only benefit for F2P is that it gives people access to game without purchasing the client, it is more like an elaborate and cleverly marketed free trial.

    image

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Originally posted by Jabas

    Nowadays the big diference between F2P and P2P is not the same it was 10years ago.

     

    10years ago:

    P2P = pay each monthh to have acess to ALL features/itens in-game.

    F2P = have free acess to the game and then some features/itens cost money in CC.

     

    Nowadays:

    P2P = pay each month to have acess to MOST features/itens in-game, then you have some in CC that cost money.

    F2P = Have free acess to the game and then some features/itens cost money in CC.

     

    I dont like nowadays P2P model of most games because its connected to a CC.

    I was a defender of the P2P model in the pass, but now the way it have changed, i defend F2P or B2P model. They both have CC but at least im not forced to give them 15 bucks per month to play the game.

    Im not a fan of GW2 but i hope it make a huge sucess so the other companys start thinking of the their payment model.

    Pay each month to play with CC most end, i really hope it dies soon.

     

    So, wich model can be more expensive again?

    The F2P is more costly. Why? Because SOME P2P games have a CS and with that CS and sub fee you get a number of coins if you will per month to spend in the CS, a Prime example of this is AOC, pay a sub fee, Funcom gives you points to spend in their store per month so you get:

     

    P2P = Access to ALL the game content + items+skills+ area's and a Bonus, if a CS is in game, get points per month!

    F2P= Free game, no need to buy it, SOME access to certain parts of the game, Some soso items you can use , basicly P2W model and most F2P games which is more costly then a P2P MMORPG and thus also defeating the purpose of grouping with others to raid high end areas or even do dungeons, Just buy it from the CS.

  • Jonnas13Jonnas13 PerthPosts: 76Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There are a huge number of different business models that call themselves "free to play", and they shouldn't all be lumped in together.

    This. Games with a 'premium' sub and a F2P alternative are often very different to games built on F2P from the start in terms of the packages offered.

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