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With Bioware's repeated fails...will you buy from them at release?

13

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  • ChuzpahChuzpah Mission Viejo, CAPosts: 12Member

    I think that Bioware can still produce a good game, however, perhaps they will consider buying the company back from EA and running themselves again after thier recent problems with titles like Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR.

  • SouldrainerSouldrainer Elmer, NJPosts: 1,857Member
    List of Bioware failures:
    Well, that was a short list. YMMV, but I personally love all their games. Granted, DA1/2 and SWTOR have flaws, but to call them failures is quite a large stretch IMO.

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  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Don't like their games for years.

     

    I absolutely love BG2 one of best games in my life and I can still play it after all those years.

     

    Kotor - well was ok game. Not great but ok.

     

    DA1 - average, but they changed their approach to little bit better so I hoped that maybe this showed change (and return to BG ways) in how they make games.  God I was wrong.

     

    Bioware now makes interactive movies games like ME series ,  Swtor and sometimes interactive movies with addition of insane number of filler meaningless combat = DA2.   Bioware is just aiming at most mainstream of mainstream audience. (+ BW fans)

     

    Not my style of games. For me those games are seriously BAD.  Unless there is TOTALLY DRASTIC CHANGE in their game design - I don't think I'll ever buy their games again AT ALL.

     

    Not just not at release.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    Originally posted by Isasis
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by Isasis

    Mass Effect 3...Dragon Age 2...and now SWTOR.

     

    All have been heavily critizied. However, their older games...Mass Effect 1 and 2...Dragon Age 1...even before that...have been critically acclaimed. After they got bought by EA, it seems their games are no longer the quality they once were.

    And SWTOR is already talking about turning free and losing a good portion of their servers. It did much horribly than anticipated.

    Will you still buy Bioware games at release? Do you still enjoy Bioware's new games? Or are you disatisfied with their latest games they have made?

    You probably need to take Mass Effect 3 off that list.  With the exception of the ending, it was a pretty good game.  Many many people have very high praises for ME3.

    The metacritic user score says different

     While that metacritic score isn't everything, the ending did ruin the entire series for many even if the game wasn't bad at all. They created over the top expectations and underdelivered yet again. EA still has moneymakers, but they're not BW products.

    BW sin't on a winning streak, but to say I wouldn't play a BW game just because BW made it is a bit too much.

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  • xenogiasxenogias warsaw, INPosts: 1,926Member
    Originally posted by Isasis

    Mass Effect 3...Dragon Age 2...and now SWTOR.

     

    All have been heavily critizied. However, their older games...Mass Effect 1 and 2...Dragon Age 1...even before that...have been critically acclaimed. After they got bought by EA, it seems their games are no longer the quality they once were.

    And SWTOR is already talking about turning free and losing a good portion of their servers. It did much horribly than anticipated.

    Will you still buy Bioware games at release? Do you still enjoy Bioware's new games? Or are you disatisfied with their latest games they have made?

    I will for a single player, not an MMO. But I would take ME3 out of that. ME3 was actually a VERRY good game up untill the last 10min or so. And while the endings are still below average for what I would expect, the fact that they gave people a free update to extend the ending means alot to me as a consumer. I dont really like the extended endings. I think they are still poorly written. But the fact they did it in the first place was a big step in the right direction.  Fans demanded it, they delivered. I think my bigger issue isnt with Bioware but that EA really tries to ruin everything they get thier hands on.

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by Isasis
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by Isasis

    Mass Effect 3...Dragon Age 2...and now SWTOR.

     

    All have been heavily critizied. However, their older games...Mass Effect 1 and 2...Dragon Age 1...even before that...have been critically acclaimed. After they got bought by EA, it seems their games are no longer the quality they once were.

    And SWTOR is already talking about turning free and losing a good portion of their servers. It did much horribly than anticipated.

    Will you still buy Bioware games at release? Do you still enjoy Bioware's new games? Or are you disatisfied with their latest games they have made?

    You probably need to take Mass Effect 3 off that list.  With the exception of the ending, it was a pretty good game.  Many many people have very high praises for ME3.

    The metacritic user score says different

     While that metacritic score isn't everything, the ending did ruin the entire series for many even if the game wasn't bad at all. They created over the top expectations and underdelivered yet again. EA still has moneymakers, but they're not BW products.

    Many of the zeros and ones were also given when they included rather expensive first day DLC. The game itself was good and people differ in their opinions about the ending.

    I also don't think that SWTOR is that bad game. It depends what type of games you like. Most fun I had with SWTOR was not with the end-game, but levelling with friends. I was pretty happy with the game for the first few months. I also do not expect to get more out of any new MMOs these days.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    Mark me as a 'fanboy' but I can't recall regretting spending $60 on a game from Bioware.

    If it entertains me for more than 2 hours (cost of a movie) than I'm coming out ahead. :)

     

    The 'ME3 Extended End DLC' is seriously good stuff I feel. Then again, I had no issue with the original ending.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • The-MoebiusThe-Moebius Campbells CreekPosts: 2Member

    Yeah i think the fail charges are pretty trumped up.

    ME3 was a  great game, and continual free DLC since (multiplayer and Extended cut) provided. The whole ending debacle is way overblown by all of us who got wayyy overinvested in their story and as such had very high expectations of the finale, the EC amended the poor ending and is now a reasonable ending.

    DA2 was going in the wrong direction for my tastes but  was still a good game.

    SWTOR while not doing enarly as well as most hoped/projected brought some great elements to a very tough space, but suffering from a fairly universal MMORPG problem of development time/cycle was out of synch with player expectations/innovations. 

    Bioware produce great games still, admittedly i liked the spirit of their earlier productions better, but their later installments are still head and shoulders above most other games IMO.

    Something that Bioware get right which keeps me buying tickets is that their worlds are rich and immersive with great interactive stories.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by Isasis

    Mass Effect 3...Dragon Age 2...and now SWTOR.

     

    All have been heavily critizied. However, their older games...Mass Effect 1 and 2...Dragon Age 1...even before that...have been critically acclaimed. After they got bought by EA, it seems their games are no longer the quality they once were.

    And SWTOR is already talking about turning free and losing a good portion of their servers. It did much horribly than anticipated.

    Will you still buy Bioware games at release? Do you still enjoy Bioware's new games? Or are you disatisfied with their latest games they have made?

    You probably need to take Mass Effect 3 off that list.  With the exception of the ending, it was a pretty good game.  Many many people have very high praises for ME3.

    Some things they did were great.  The few genuine choices you could make in the game were amazing.  The decision over what to do with the quarian and the geth was very well done.  The genophage one, not as good, but still well done.  Hell, even a possibility to control the Reapers could've been epic, but they royally screwed it up.

    But there were realy criticisms.  The sidequests were annoying as hell the way they were designed.  The forced multiplayer.  The utter pointlessness of war assets (if you wanted the "best" ending, you had to play MP, that simple.)

    I honestly place it 3rd in the series.  ME2 was the height of the series.  Perfect mix of good action and a good story with meaningful characters.  (mostly.)  I honestly never thought the hidden diceroll stuff worked that well in ME1.

  • DarkmothDarkmoth Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 174Member

    Yeah, I would. I actually enjoyed DA2 and SWTOR (for a while). The Mass Effect series, except for 10ish minutes, is an unparalleled space opera. I seriously can't think of anything in the same league really, and that would include Star Wars, Halo, Wing Commander, FreeSpace, etc.

    Granted that DA2 was a shadow of DA1, and SWTOR was a commercial fail. However, while I can think of many flaws in their recent games, I can't think of many better games. If there's a company making better sci-fi/fantasy sagas, I'd ike to know their name so I can throw money at them.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by Isasis

    Mass Effect 3...Dragon Age 2...and now SWTOR.

     

    All have been heavily critizied. However, their older games...Mass Effect 1 and 2...Dragon Age 1...even before that...have been critically acclaimed. After they got bought by EA, it seems their games are no longer the quality they once were.

    And SWTOR is already talking about turning free and losing a good portion of their servers. It did much horribly than anticipated.

    Will you still buy Bioware games at release? Do you still enjoy Bioware's new games? Or are you disatisfied with their latest games they have made?

    I unfortunately haven't played it yet but almost the only complaint I heard about mass effect 3 was related to the ending of the story and nothing else so I don't see that as a big deal, I bought and enjoyed Dragon Age 2 (though I can say easily not as much as the first) and I love SWTOR so BW's rep hasn't taken any hit as far as I'm concerned.  And if I'm not mistaken EA owned them when they made Dragon Age 1 so I don't see why people are always so quick to blame EA for everything.

    At the end of the day they are still my favorite developer right now because more often than not I still find the elements that attracted me to BW games in the first place they tend to stick to roleplay type themes,more often than not they include parties of unique and different characters and always have me engaged in the content they deliver.

    My issue with alot of peoples complaints has to do with one of my only gaming friends told me way back after the first baldurs gate, "I'm tired of gaming because I'm sick of always having to start out with kill ten rat quests".  Soon after that he quit gaing all together until recently.

    While I understand that people want games that innovate I think folks have to understand every single game simply can't do that when the industry is as big as it is.  I would never say that a person shouldn't try any game they want but more often than not these same people know damn well that eight out of ten games they play they don't like yet they refuse to either move onto and accept another form of gaming or god forbid find things outside of gaming to occupy themselves with.

    I'm glad to see these type of people inflate the industry that I enjoy but I certainly wonder what the industry would be like if they just went and read some more as opposed to subjecting themselves to something they aren't as into as passionately as they used to be.

  • EmeraqEmeraq Medical Lake, WAPosts: 927Member Uncommon

    Yes.

     

    If there's a paid expansion for SWTOR with plenty of content, additional companions (which in my opinion each time you are eligible for a new companion, I think  you should have a choice between two companions, I would have told Quinn to get bent and gone with whatever other option I had), yes i would buy it.

    YesI will buy Dragon Age 3 at release.

     

  • MarXonMarXon StockholmPosts: 22Member

    If I'm sure I will love the game, absolutely. I find it foolish to condemn game-developing companies, since it's not a person. It's a name. For example, if every single person at Bioware got replaced by tomorrow, it would still be Bioware.

    The ending was disappointing, sure, but still Mass Effect 3 is one of the best games I've ever played. Did the people hating on ME3 actually think it was shit before the ending? If not, then give credit where credit is due.

    I thought that both Dragon Age 2 and SWTOR was ok games. I liked the first Dragon Age better, and felt disappointed about the fact that you spend 90% in the game in Kirkwall in the second, but still, it was an ok game. As for SWTOR, it was supposed to be a classical, wow-inspired mmo focused on story with fully voiced dialogues. And that is exactly what it was, so I have no problem with the game.

    I guess how I am different from alot of other people is that I can differentiate between games I do not like, and games that are bad. Just because I don't like a game, doesn't necessarily mean that it is bad.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon

    No thanks, I won't buy anything from Bioware again, mostly because of their attitudes, egos, and lack of respect for their customers.

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  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    If I like classical music, would I buy the 'greatest collection of music by Mozart'?

    I know fully well what Bioware puts out so it is a no-brainer for me to go 'here is my wallet, GIMMIE!'

     

    Also, do people really care about 'game makers'?

    I see 'boycott game XYZ because of 123!' all the time, (BF3/ Starcraft/COD / D3 etc) and those are always in the top 10 selling throughout the year from release.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • raistlinmraistlinm new orleans, LAPosts: 673Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    If I like classical music, would I buy the 'greatest collection of music by Mozart'?

    I know fully well what Bioware puts out so it is a no-brainer for me to go 'here is my wallet, GIMMIE!'

     

    Also, do people really care about 'game makers'?

    I see 'boycott game XYZ because of 123!' all the time, (BF3/ Starcraft/COD / D3 etc) and those are always in the top 10 selling throughout the year from release.

    And this is really how I see it I won't say that there aren't people who have been fans of BW's as long as me but I will say I've been riding with them since the first Baldur's Gate and they have consistently given me what I expect from them high quality development what I consider to be interesting stories and characters and I haven't seen a change in those asects of BW games.

    Also as you mention and the op ignores is none of the games he has mentioned have really "failed" Dragon Age 2 sold well despite having far more critics than DA1 ME3 sold well and is also critically acclaimed complaints are almost exclusively reserved for the ending and let's be real here we all know that gamers can tend toward rage more easily than the rest of us, atleast we will express it more than people not inclined to be plugged into technology.  And honestly for all the "fail" talk I haven't heard a single thing that suggests that SWTOR will not sustain profitability whether they keep it sub based or go free to play, for all we know the talk is simply because they know the game isn't performing to where they want it to and they would be a fool not to consider the possibility.

    If I have any problem with the BW/EA relationship it's that EA has shown they will take studios who have lost their luster and tag them with the BW name but if they continue to add the staples I mentioned above I too will always buy BW games which are one of the only companies I consistantly buy from at launch.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    I think you have a point. In fact after playing DA1 and ME1 etc.  Its no surprise how SWTOR turned out.  All of their games are very linear in form and have the illusion of space and free roam.  Really they are heavy on RPG with characters but the gameplay is very much stuck in connecting modules.

    Single player games aren't too bad like this but what they have done with SWTOR was just not MMO in playability.

    I don't think their single player games are failures but myself and most of my friends had enough after ME1 and DA1.  Skyrim (bethesda) just seem a cut above.

     

  • InfinityDInfinityD Long Beach, CAPosts: 33Member

    Yes. I've thoroughly enjoyed their games through and through. I havent let others ruin them for me.

  • kaguhoOkaguhoO brusselsPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by Chuzpah

    I think that Bioware can still produce a good game, however, perhaps they will consider buying the company back from EA and running themselves again after thier recent problems with titles like Mass Effect 3 and SWTOR.

    if EA stop breaking their balls to rush games then maybe they will

  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw JohannesburgPosts: 547Member

    I will still play and support Bioware games because they still entertain me. They are not at  the same level as Baldurs Gate but I don't always expect the same level of excellence, just entertainment. I never played  SWTOR so I can't comment

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by raistlinm

    I And if I'm not mistaken EA owned them when they made Dragon Age 1 so I don't see why people are always so quick to blame EA for everything.

    While I understand that people want games that innovate I think folks have to understand every single game simply can't do that when the industry is as big as it is.  I would never say that a person shouldn't try any game they want but more often than not these same people know damn well that eight out of ten games they play they don't like yet they refuse to either move onto and accept another form of gaming or god forbid find things outside of gaming to occupy themselves with.

    The first comment is true but sorta irrelevant.  Bioware was bought out near the end of 07.  The game was released in 09, however development started around the end of 03 - beginning 04.  The majority of the game, from concept to everything else, was firmly the work of Bioware.  At that point, EA really was just a publisher.

    By the time DA2 came around, the project was ENTIRELY EA-directed.  It was actually pretty typical EA:  sick visuals in the front-end, but peel it away and you see a ton of things recycled and the depth of the game is stripped pretty bare.  They basically tried merging Mass Effect 2 into Dragon Age and it didn't work.

    The last statement you have here is what is wrong with games.  Nobody is saying every game has to innovate.  What we are saying is that Bioware over the years had a status as one of the Kings.  Sure, not everyone innovates or keeps it fresh, but Bioware did.  If they want that title, they need to earn it.

    Also, do people pan Roger Ebert for reviewing a movie it is almost certain he will hate and unload upon with his classic wit/venom?  It isn't that we need to "move on."  We are just sick of an industry that is lazy.  We aren't "blaming EA for everything."  Pretty much all of EA's critics don't spare Bioware anymore either.  They are out there defending what they are doing.  The company, though still "led" by the same guys, that's about it.  Almost all the original star developers are gone, their business model has changed radically, and the majority of people who work in a "bioware" studio have nothing to do with the emphasis that Bioware was created with.

    But oh well, Bioware's loss is another companies gain.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    If I like classical music, would I buy the 'greatest collection of music by Mozart'?

    I know fully well what Bioware puts out so it is a no-brainer for me to go 'here is my wallet, GIMMIE!'

     

    Also, do people really care about 'game makers'?

    I see 'boycott game XYZ because of 123!' all the time, (BF3/ Starcraft/COD / D3 etc) and those are always in the top 10 selling throughout the year from release.

    Depends.  EA lost quite a bit of money over ME3.  It came in around 33% under projections.  Now maybe the projections were too rosy, or maybe the backlash damaged their bottom line.  I think it's a mix of  both personally.  And TOR, well EA's bottom line has become a bottomless pit thanks to all the cash TOR will continue to suck up.

    Do boycotts work?  Not really.  But does negative PR impact a company?  You bet.

  • iceman00iceman00 Westland, MIPosts: 1,363Member
    Originally posted by raistlinm

    Also as you mention and the op ignores is none of the games he has mentioned have really "failed" Dragon Age 2 sold well despite having far more critics than DA1 ME3 sold well and is also critically acclaimed complaints are almost exclusively reserved for the ending and let's be real here we all know that gamers can tend toward rage more easily than the rest of us, atleast we will express it more than people not inclined to be plugged into technology.  And honestly for all the "fail" talk I haven't heard a single thing that suggests that SWTOR will not sustain profitability whether they keep it sub based or go free to play, for all we know the talk is simply because they know the game isn't performing to where they want it to and they would be a fool not to consider the possibility.

    Actually, we know DA2 came in under projections.  Why?  not a single expansion pack, and DLC was cancelled on it not too long after release.

    And as far as Mass Effect 3, it sold 33% under projections.  (EA blames the bad economy, which is certainly partially true.) 

    And if you are talking about "breaking even" on something you spent 200 million and 8 years of development time on...... your doing it wrong.  With that kind of committment, "breaking even" is "losing money."  Hence why EA's stock price is in the crapper right now.  TOR isn't "sustaining profits" right now.  If they were profitable, they wouldn't be talking about Free 2 Play, something they swore off time and time again when their projections were rosier.

  • ompgamingompgaming Hometown, IAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by azmundai

    maybe, if they can detach themselves from ea

    Agree!

    Above all else... never ever piss off the penguin.

  • SumterSideSumterSide Chicago, ILPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by arche22

    Oh please, Metacritic user scores have more trolls than the WoW forums. ME3 was good wit hthe exception of the ending, DA2 was mediocre but hardly a failure. SWTOR, I will give you that one.

    ME3 was another victim of "broader appeal-itis"

    And DA2 was not mediocre. It was bad. 

    Battlefield 3 was mediocre.

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