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Grouping issues

gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
I think it will be very difficult to find dungeon group for late comers. Most people will pass QL-5 content in first 3 weeks, anyone that starts afterward will find all the starters zone empty. Since there are very little incentive to roll an alt nobody will be doing Polaris, and other beginner instances

Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

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Comments

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

  • TheSedatedTheSedated WormsPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    That too.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    Guys, the OP has a point. And it's something I saw during the PvP beta as well. First beta event, easy as hell to find a Polaris group. Good luck finding an Inferno one (they happened, but it was rare). 2nd beta event, easy as hell to find an Inferno group, good luck finding a Polaris one.

    Are dungeons required to advance? Nope. However they give a VERY clear advantage, as the game very much caters to gear more than anything else. Furthermore, if you want to train up other weapon skills, repeating old dungeons is not the best way. Repeating the same dungeon you are currently on yields more AP / SP every time. Exp scales up every time, so repeating higher lvl stuff leads to more rewards. The general progression goes something like: start zone, complete main story / side story missions in order. Grind dungeon until you get the gear you need / get bored. Enter next zone. Rinse repeat.

    There isn't any real insentive to go back to earlier zones, other than nostalgia / curiosity. Maybe they'll add quests or something later, who knows. However, the way the game currently plays, this is how it is.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    Guys, the OP has a point. And it's something I saw during the PvP beta as well. First beta event, easy as hell to find a Polaris group. Good luck finding an Inferno one (they happened, but it was rare). 2nd beta event, easy as hell to find an Inferno group, good luck finding a Polaris one.

    Are dungeons required to advance? Nope. However they give a VERY clear advantage, as the game very much caters to gear more than anything else. Furthermore, if you want to train up other weapon skills, repeating old dungeons is not the best way. Repeating the same dungeon you are currently on yields more AP / SP every time. Exp scales up every time, so repeating higher lvl stuff leads to more rewards. The general progression goes something like: start zone, complete main story / side story missions in order. Grind dungeon until you get the gear you need / get bored. Enter next zone. Rinse repeat.

    There isn't any real insentive to go back to earlier zones, other than nostalgia / curiosity. Maybe they'll add quests or something later, who knows. However, the way the game currently plays, this is how it is.

    Noone is argueing it would be easy or not fun to do get to group for them.  But sadly even the more settled mmos that DO encourage alts suffer that problem.

    In every single mmo Ive played and still do play its normal for me to backtrack to lowby dungeons out to help out random strangers, graditude and (dont have a better word for this.. sorry) being needed is a great feeling.

    With the introduction of the region tokens you can very blues easy and fast, so they definately gave a way to get around it.

     

  • rusrecrusrec Fort Belvoir, VAPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    Guys, the OP has a point.

     No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    Guys, the OP has a point. And it's something I saw during the PvP beta as well. First beta event, easy as hell to find a Polaris group. Good luck finding an Inferno one (they happened, but it was rare). 2nd beta event, easy as hell to find an Inferno group, good luck finding a Polaris one.

    Are dungeons required to advance? Nope. However they give a VERY clear advantage, as the game very much caters to gear more than anything else. Furthermore, if you want to train up other weapon skills, repeating old dungeons is not the best way. Repeating the same dungeon you are currently on yields more AP / SP every time. Exp scales up every time, so repeating higher lvl stuff leads to more rewards. The general progression goes something like: start zone, complete main story / side story missions in order. Grind dungeon until you get the gear you need / get bored. Enter next zone. Rinse repeat.

    There isn't any real insentive to go back to earlier zones, other than nostalgia / curiosity. Maybe they'll add quests or something later, who knows. However, the way the game currently plays, this is how it is.

    Noone is argueing it would be easy or not fun to do get to group for them.  But sadly even the more settled mmos that DO encourage alts suffer that problem.

    In every single mmo Ive played and still do play its normal for me to backtrack to lowby dungeons out to help out random strangers, graditude and (dont have a better word for this.. sorry) being needed is a great feeling.

    With the introduction of the region tokens you can very blues easy and fast, so they definately gave a way to get around it.

    Well, I can say I have yet to play a single MMO prelaunch with this problem until TSW.

    Regardless, saying 'previous MMOs also have this problem, therefor it's okay' is a really bad argument. I was under the impression people wanted the genre to evolve, not stagnate. Furthermore, other MMOs usually didn't run into this problem this quickly, and many have implemented multiple ways to fast-track through older content to get to the latest & greatest, if not ofering solo-modes of the instances. What the OP is talking about also is a problem in SWTOR, yes, but is that really an example one wants to follow?

    Side note: I did really enjoy the dungeons I've played before, which is one of the reasons it sucks that there isn't a huge amount of incentive to go back. The nightmare modes are a nice way of dealing w/ this to an extent, but they are geared towards much more, well, geared players.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by TheSedated
    Originally posted by Panthien

    Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.

    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.

    Guys, the OP has a point. And it's something I saw during the PvP beta as well. First beta event, easy as hell to find a Polaris group. Good luck finding an Inferno one (they happened, but it was rare). 2nd beta event, easy as hell to find an Inferno group, good luck finding a Polaris one.

    Are dungeons required to advance? Nope. However they give a VERY clear advantage, as the game very much caters to gear more than anything else. Furthermore, if you want to train up other weapon skills, repeating old dungeons is not the best way. Repeating the same dungeon you are currently on yields more AP / SP every time. Exp scales up every time, so repeating higher lvl stuff leads to more rewards. The general progression goes something like: start zone, complete main story / side story missions in order. Grind dungeon until you get the gear you need / get bored. Enter next zone. Rinse repeat.

    There isn't any real insentive to go back to earlier zones, other than nostalgia / curiosity. Maybe they'll add quests or something later, who knows. However, the way the game currently plays, this is how it is.

    Noone is argueing it would be easy or not fun to do get to group for them.  But sadly even the more settled mmos that DO encourage alts suffer that problem.

    In every single mmo Ive played and still do play its normal for me to backtrack to lowby dungeons out to help out random strangers, graditude and (dont have a better word for this.. sorry) being needed is a great feeling.

    With the introduction of the region tokens you can very blues easy and fast, so they definately gave a way to get around it.

    Well, I can say I have yet to play a single MMO prelaunch with this problem until TSW.

    Regardless, saying 'previous MMOs also have this problem, therefor it's okay' is a really bad argument. I was under the impression people wanted the genre to evolve, not stagnate. Furthermore, other MMOs usually didn't run into this problem this quickly, and many have implemented multiple ways to fast-track through older content to get to the latest & greatest, if not ofering solo-modes of the instances. What the OP is talking about also is a problem in SWTOR, yes, but is that really an example one wants to follow?

    Side note: I did really enjoy the dungeons I've played before, which is one of the reasons it sucks that there isn't a huge amount of incentive to go back. The nightmare modes are a nice way of dealing w/ this to an extent, but they are geared towards much more, well, geared players.

    WoW had resolved this issue, though they moved the incentive to go elsewhere, rift had it, havent played that quite some time so cant vouch for it now. L2 has/had it, DCuo has it. I know this is a bad excample.. SwToR, Aion , just to pick a few better known or more recent excamples.

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by TheSedated Originally posted by Panthien Which is a non issue , those dungeons arent needed to advance.
    And can be redone for nice rewards when you want to train up some other weapon skills.
    That too.

    Plus, all item drops have end game value since they can all be disassembled and refined up to the pure quality.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    can't think of any similar type MMO that hasn't added some sort of dungeon finder into the game at some point.. only hope they are smart and add it sooner rather than later.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    can't think of any similar type MMO that hasn't added some sort of dungeon finder into the game at some point.. only hope they are smart and add it sooner rather than later.

    I fully agree

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    can't think of any similar type MMO that hasn't added some sort of dungeon finder into the game at some point.. only hope they are smart and add it sooner rather than later.

    That'd be good (especially w/ their single server architecture). Until then, maybe there will be cabals or something that are open to helping out newer dungeons.

  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Originally posted by rusrec
     No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

    Yes this ia an issue with every MMO, however this issue willl exacerbate in TSW (more then any other MMO) since people will not be rolling alts as they do in class based MMO. 

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by rusrec  No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

    Yes this ia an issue with every MMO, however this issue willl intensify in TSW more then any other MMO since people will not be rolling alts as they do in class based MMO. 

    again. xp and crafting materials are viable from the very first quest to the final final boss and everything inbetween. Polaris with still yield xp and crafting mats that people will find useful whether theyve played for three hours or three months and beyond

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by rusrec
     No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

    Yes this ia an issue with every MMO, however this issue willl intensify in TSW more then any other MMO since people will not be rolling alts as they do in class based MMO. 

    Which is probebly why they give arguebly the best way to get around the potentional drops through regional tokens.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by rusrec
     No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

    Yes this ia an issue with every MMO, however this issue willl intensify in TSW more then any other MMO since people will not be rolling alts as they do in class based MMO. 

    I agree I would expect to see a dungeon finder be added within the first few months if they are on the ball.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member

    Grouping issue is very likely. If they do some work, scale some content and make individual rewards--this won't be. 

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    hmm. I must be on ignore lol

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    hmm. I must be on ignore lol

    lol not by me...:) I agree there is lots of incentives to do dungeons but I still feel all these games need a dungeon finder and it should be a launch thing but unfortunatly usually isn't.... I honestly hate spamming chat for groups and hate nothing more than having general chat filled with nothing but LFG chat spam.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Originally posted by rusrec
     No, he has a general observation about most, if not all, MMO launches.  Beyond the points above, this is normal operations of a new launch and hasnt been the point that ruined a game yet

    Yes this ia an issue with every MMO, however this issue willl intensify in TSW more then any other MMO since people will not be rolling alts as they do in class based MMO. 

    I agree I would expect to see a dungeon finder be added within the first few months if they are on the ball.

    These days, things like this should either be added @ launch, or very shortly after. I don't know if anyone has realized this yet, but the mechanics that are causing these MMO issues are causing them at an exponentially faster rate, as more and more people get accustomed to them. With each new game, people are grinding to 'endgame' faster & faster. With each new game, populations are getting skewed more quickly to the central areas. These things used to take a year to happen. Post WoW it would take a matter of months. With the past few games it's been a matter of weeks. We are starting to see it happening in a matter of days.

     - And no, the crafting matts / exp gains aren't going to do a damned thing. From what I've tested so far (not including nightmare modes), dungeons do not yield equal rewards. Even if they did, it would devolve into the more popular dungeons being the only ones really ran (I know, happens with all MMOs). The increased gain from each dungeon just reinforced the trend of racing towards max lvl, (or in this case max QL / content completion).

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by DannyGlover hmm. I must be on ignore lol
    lol not by me...:) I agree there is lots of incentives to do dungeons but I still feel all these games need a dungeon finder and it should be a launch thing but unfortunatly usually isn't.... I honestly hate spamming chat for groups and hate nothing more than having general chat filled with nothing but LFG chat spam.

    I agree chat spam is never good in any form. But the op seems to think lfg will be rougher in this game because of no need to roll alts. When in fact, he couldnt be more wrong heh.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

     


    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by DannyGlover hmm. I must be on ignore lol
    lol not by me...:) I agree there is lots of incentives to do dungeons but I still feel all these games need a dungeon finder and it should be a launch thing but unfortunatly usually isn't.... I honestly hate spamming chat for groups and hate nothing more than having general chat filled with nothing but LFG chat spam.
    I agree chat spam is never good in any form. But the op seems to think lfg will be rougher in this game because of no need to roll alts. When in fact, he couldnt be more wrong heh.

     

    I dunno we will see on that one.. but overall i just can't stand the chat spam and can't believe people out there still believe its more "community building" to not have a LFD tool

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    hmm. I must be on ignore lol

    I agree with your other posts, just not with the ignore part :P

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by DannyGlover hmm. I must be on ignore lol
    I agree with your other posts, just not with the ignore part :P

    hehe thanks ;)

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • negativf4kknegativf4kk WorthingPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    Was thinking same thing. Tsw not promoting alts. But it got factions. And i am sure players will have chars of at list 2 of them.Other thing why TSW stands out for me is,that it does make me want to get to the end as fast as i can. There gonnabe lots of people who would get there q10 items in first couple of weeks. And then start posting how its no end game, and how TSW failed. But  i dont wanna get to the end game. Missing out on some content kind of spoiling the feal of the game. Ruins its atmosphere.Hope i`m not alone.

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