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Themeparks are dead it's time to clarify the genre.

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

Too much confusion here, fortunately I'll set it straight.

Sandboxes died when WOW turned the industry down the theme park path.

Theme parks died when WOW implemented cross realm grouping.

What we have now is a bunch of dungeon crawlers posing as Theme Parks which are posing as MMORPGs which we all know are Sandboxes.

A true MMORPG is a Sandbox.

A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

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Comments

  • ZigZagsZigZags Modesto, CAPosts: 328Member

    Theme Parks are not dead just look at all the people clammoring to play GW2 and that game is the epitome of Theme Park. People think they want a Sandbox MMORPG, but once they get there, get ganked and lose their gear, they quit and go back to Disneyland.

    Now: Skyrim
    Later: ?
    Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
    BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  • thexratedthexrated OuluPosts: 1,368Member Common

    Themeparks are far from dead. People just change games more often than in the past, but today there is also more choice than few years back. I am not really expecting to stay with a themepark MMO for more than two to three months. Many of my gaming friends feel the same. Is it a bad thing? No, not really. I like the fact that there is choice. 

    Change in the social landscape in MMOs is also happening steadily. There are a lot more multigame and multiplatform guilds than there were few years back.

    The pricing for these games is changing as well. More and more games launch with various B2P to freemium concepts. This is partly because companies recognise that, amongst other things, gamers like to try out new titles and different type of games.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • EverSkellyEverSkelly AlytusPosts: 334Member

    What can i say... i agree with everything.

    But kids who can quit the game when they find any obstacle, they are probably 70-90% of all players. So mmorpgs will continue to be dumbed down games on rails. And sanboxes, unfortunately, will continue to be niche games.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    What devs seem to be missing is the game within a game. I don't play MMORPGs to play capture the flag in an instance in the game. I play it to capture the land mass and have an actual impact on the game world I live in. If I want to play capture the flag I can grab any generic FPS on the market and go to town.

  • MithrandolirMithrandolir The Deep Woods, NJPosts: 1,698Member Uncommon

    Although I am a big fan of sandboxes, themeparks are not dead, nor are they dying.

    What will not last, in my opinion, is this new wave of heavy story driven, single player feeling, personal storyline type of mechanic with heavy cut scenens and tons of voice overs, in a mmorpg. This is just my opinion but when you try to blend these two great genres (sp and mp), you muddy both to the point where it just does not work for a living, breathing world feel. What makes each great are things that just can not be merged.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member Common

    Get your cards ready, someone is going to bingo real quick in this one......

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Theme parks aren't dead they are just boring and overrated.

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    They arent dead, more like Zombies. Undead empty shells with no soul looking for fresh meat to tear apart

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,408Member Uncommon

    I played The Secret World for about 20 min. I had to turn it off. I just can't do the "Go here, go there" thing anymore.

     

    I want a sandbox. However, I don't want it to be some hardcore Darkfall-type first-person view sandbox. I want blend of SWG and EQ.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by mmoDAD
    I played The Secret World for about 20 min. I had to turn it off. I just can't do the "Go here, go there" thing anymore. I want a sandbox. However, I don't want it to be some hardcore Darkfall-type first-person view sandbox. I want blend of SWG and EQ.

    The first company to take what SWG had and combine it with park style PVE will be the next "One" imho

  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member

    The MMORPG genre is pretty awful in general.  Go here, kill these 10 guys, get yer fish biscuit.  Go do something else boring.  Combat is hit 1, hit 1, hit 1, hit 2, hit 1, hit 1, hit 3, blah blah blah.  Combat is the worst part of MMORPG's, like it is designed for a monkey or something to be successful at.  TERA had the right idea except they made the mobs so idiotic that action combat is still boring as all hell.  GW2 has some good ideas but the combat is almost as bad as the WoW clones. 

    Developers don't want to take risks so nothing good will come out unless it is some sort of MMOFPS type of thing like planetside2.  The future of the genre is in game mods like DayZ, not in these big budget Pavlovian nightmares.

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
    image
    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member

    So that leaves what, The Repopulation and Embers of Caerus? I give credit to the indie developers to try and create these games, I hope they have the tools to release a real quality product.

    I can only imagine what the could do with either title if they had a fraction of the cash big developers do, although when that cash is given it usually begins the death of the dream of most games.

    Once that cash partner is into you, they set the benchmarks and deadlines, it's a horrible model that is the current game developement, I just dont want to play card board cut outs sliding around a blocky world of pop up style art.

  • OBK1OBK1 BorPosts: 637Member

    Nah, you're wrong. WoW still has millions of players and a lot of people like to be shown what there is to do.

    Besides, I like both WoW and (for instance) Darkfall. Good games but in different ways.

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member
    Originally posted by Mephster

    Theme parks aren't dead they are just boring and overrated.

     

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    Theme Parks are not dead just look at all the people clammoring to play GW2 and that game is the epitome of Theme Park. People think they want a Sandbox MMORPG, but once they get there, get ganked and lose their gear, they quit and go back to Disneyland.

     

    yeah,look at all the people that clammered to play star wars the old republic.and look at where they are now,gone and playing another mmo

    id say the mmo genre itself took a turn for the worst when they changed it to become the casuals games instead of the grindy timesinks 

     

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    Theme Parks are not dead just look at all the people clammoring to play GW2 and that game is the epitome of Theme Park. People think they want a Sandbox MMORPG, but once they get there, get ganked and lose their gear, they quit and go back to Disneyland.

     If the game is truly a sandbox game then PVP is optional, so I see no reason why a sandbox gamer should be ganked and lose their gear, unless it's still a themepark that's heavy on the PVP which seems to be forced wich already eliminates the freedom to play how you want which in turn does not make it sandbox.

    Not sure when PVP became such a sandbox feature where people asume you need PVP in a sandbox game, while I do agree all sorts of playstyle's should be available in a sandbox MMORPG, but again everything should be optional.

    But then again it's us gamers that want to label something while it's the developers that actually create these games that are intitled to call their game what ever genre they want to call it. I mean we now see games like GTA being called sandbox, while I personaly feel it's not, but just a openworld game.

    OP: you didn't set anything straight, you just voiced your opinion like all of us do.

     

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by theJexster

    Too much confusion here, fortunately I'll set it straight.

    Sandboxes died when WOW turned the industry down the theme park path.

    Theme parks died when WOW implemented cross realm grouping.

    What we have now is a bunch of dungeon crawlers posing as Theme Parks which are posing as MMORPGs which we all know are Sandboxes.

    A true MMORPG is a Sandbox.

    A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

    The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

    Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

    And that is totally YOUR point of view. The RPG comes from the player, not the game. Sandbox or themepark, *I* am what makes the RPG with my character, not the game mechanics. Once you understand that these types of posts can go the way of the dodo.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • OBK1OBK1 BorPosts: 637Member
    Originally posted by Reklaw
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    Theme Parks are not dead just look at all the people clammoring to play GW2 and that game is the epitome of Theme Park. People think they want a Sandbox MMORPG, but once they get there, get ganked and lose their gear, they quit and go back to Disneyland.

     If the game is truly a sandbox game then PVP is optional, so I see no reason why a sandbox gamer should be ganked and lose their gear, unless it's still a themepark that's heavy on the PVP which seems to be forced wich already eliminates the freedom to play how you want which in turn does not make it sandbox.

    Not sure when PVP became such a sandbox feature where people asume you need PVP in a sandbox game, while I do agree all sorts of playstyle's should be available in a sandbox MMORPG, but again everything should be optional.

    But then again it's us gamers that want to label something while it's the developers that actually create these games that are intitled to call their game what ever genre they want to call it. I mean we now see games like GTA being called sandbox, while I personaly feel it's not, but just a openworld game.

    OP: you didn't set anything straight, you just voiced your opinion like all of us do.

     

    I wish someone would make a sandbox with FFA full loot pvp, but where killing other players actually had consequences. So far in such games you are pretty much only rewarded for being an asshole psychopatic killer machine. Instead I wish someone would make a game, give us lore and setting and then allow us to act as we want within the limits of that setting. That, to me, would be a great fantasy/SF world to live and play in instead of being MMO Quake.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by theJexster

    Too much confusion here, fortunately I'll set it straight.

    Sandboxes died when WOW turned the industry down the theme park path.

    Theme parks died when WOW implemented cross realm grouping.

    What we have now is a bunch of dungeon crawlers posing as Theme Parks which are posing as MMORPGs which we all know are Sandboxes.

    A true MMORPG is a Sandbox.

    A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

    The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

    Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

    nope you are wrong with some of this.

    Your first statement might very well be correct, your second statement might be your opinion but with the huge turnout at launch of themepark games it pretty much shows you are incorrect. What you can say is that in the last few years theme park games are wanted but the developers can't get it right at launch in order to keep the numbers of people buyng them.

    The rest is also opinion.

     

  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member

    I will agree that themeparks are not true MMORPG's, it is also my view.

    They simply can't be because they cannot provide the undefined Adventure, which constitutes the basis of an RP Experience.

    Themeparks are designed with a pre-defined experience, and that can be anything except a genuine Adventure. Which in my opinion accounts for the fact that people change games too often and do not stick with one for more than 3-6 months. And who can blame them? A themepark becomes boring after you seen the rides a couple of times, and it needs new attractions perriodically, something that Blizzard has done pretty well with WoW.

    I am not sure on the other hand that Themeparks are dead, too many people have been accustomed to the experience that themeparks offer and too many people expect to have such an experience and associate it with the genre.

    In order for it to change people need to be introduced to different experience, but herein lies the problem, not many (if any) will risk puting a product on the market without knowing if at least the investement will be covered.

    It has become too much of a money gamble nowdays. And the Themepark formula, seems to at least provide some security. many here knew in advance that TOR would not last for long, but that did not matter to the investors, all they wanted was their money back with a profit on launch day, after that point, it is no longer their problem, the Production Dev team is charged with keeping the game going.

    Of course, the markt is not only about Offer, it is also about Demand, and the Demand for change is slowly rising, it just has not reached a point where it would justify the risk of an investement yet.

    But eventually it will, sooner or later we will be all enjoying a good Sandbox.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member
    Originally posted by ZigZags

    Theme Parks are not dead just look at all the people clammoring to play GW2 and that game is the epitome of Theme Park. People think they want a Sandbox MMORPG, but once they get there, get ganked and lose their gear, they quit and go back to Disneyland.

    Just because the first sandbox MMORPG did this does not mean that sandboxes in general include looting of this kind. Further, the genre has not been evolved at all since 1997, and thus, there is plenty of room for improvement.

  • Heinz130Heinz130 sao pauloPosts: 227Member
    Originally posted by theJexster

     

    A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

    The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

    Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

    For ppl who still dont know,RPG means ROLLE PLAY GAME

    Since theres nothing to rolle in a themepark its not a RPG,cant receive the name of RPG

    OP is right

    WoW 4ys,EVE 4ys,EU 4ys
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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Heinz130
    Originally posted by theJexster

     

    A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

    The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

    Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

    For ppl who still dont know,RPG means ROLLE PLAY GAME

    Since theres nothing to rolle in a themepark its not a RPG,cant receive the name of RPG

    OP is right

    As far as I've seen, people do either "take the role" of someone or actually role play in Theme Park games. So he's not right.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Morv

    Just because the first sandbox MMORPG did this does not mean that sandboxes in general include looting of this kind. Further, the genre has not been evolved at all since 1997, and thus, there is plenty of room for improvement.

    i wouldnt go that far , there have been later sandbox mmos that were different

     

    Tale in Desert (2003)   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_in_the_Desert

    gave a sandbox mmo w no combat

  • MorvMorv Royal Oak, MIPosts: 331Member
    Originally posted by theJexster

    Too much confusion here, fortunately I'll set it straight.

    Sandboxes died when WOW turned the industry down the theme park path.

    No.

    Theme parks died when WOW implemented cross realm grouping.

    No.

    What we have now is a bunch of dungeon crawlers posing as Theme Parks which are posing as MMORPGs which we all know are Sandboxes.

    /Agreed

    A true MMORPG is a Sandbox.

    /Agreed

    A theme park is not and never was an MMORPG. They are a type of game unto themselves that have 0 to do with RPG. I shall call them a Massive Multiplayer Online Quest Grinders.

    I find this to be an appropriate term, MMOQG, I have been referring to them as just online games for years now.

    The genre fell even further into darkness with cross realms going from theme parks to Massive Multiplayer Online Dungeon Crawlers.

    I agree, developers are completely lacking perspective today... It's kind of funny. This is probably why we see such a huge influx of indie developers who are willing to give the middle finger to the status quo.

    Hopefully this clarifies things so people on this site, a MMORPG site, can stop talking about all these silly non MMORPGs.

     

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