Please, this isn't WoW or its clones where you can always get better gear no matter how awesome your current level gear is. Buying gold would at best give you a marginal advantage over the casual player, and most likely be used to just buy better looking stuff.
Pissed off that the other guy bought his awesome looking gear while you spend hours working for it? That's about as productive as being pissed off at the guy who had way more time than you and thus grinded all the cool stuff way before you did. Either way it's just a question of how much resources you're willing to spend on the game. And this may be difficult to understand, but time is far more valuable than money.
how EXP boost is a P2W item? even on games where lvl is very important like LOTRO, lvl fast to reach max lvl dont give any advantage against other max lvl players, is just to reduce time nothing more nothing less.
if EXP boost was the only item sell on shops every F2P game was a dream for most of players. problem of F2P games is that most of them have really P2W item, like great gear/armour, great buffs, upgrade gear, etc.
this is what P2W item are, item that you pay and give advantage agaisnt any other player that dont spend money on shop.
seriously, if people think EXP boost is any kind of P2W item, is because never saw a really P2W shop
Because unless the game is completely instanced and/or noone ever competes in pvp against each other where gear matters, there will be a major advantage in getting to the higher content first. Now, if the server already has many max level players and you just started, then that's a whole different scenario. I am refering to cases where the server is new and people are still not at max level.
Have you played the game yet man?
There are multiple ways to get 'good gear', each sectioned off to their own areas.
sPvP puts you right at 80, and gives you lvl 80 sPvP-only items.
WvW gives you conquest gear (which is lvl specific), but you're character is also scaled to 80.
PvE rewards you for doing a lot more than grinding. You can rush to max lvl, but as has been shown multiple times, you won't have seen most of the content. You may be slightly more experienced when it comes to dungeons, but that's about it. (However, once you get to max lvl, you do have maximum freedom over which zones you can fight in).
Originally posted by ZenonSeth Please, this isn't WoW or its clones where you can always get better gear no matter how awesome your current level gear is. Buying gold would at best give you a marginal advantage over the casual player, and most likely be used to just buy better looking stuff.
Pissed off that the other guy bought his awesome looking gear while you spend hours working for it? That's about as productive as being pissed off at the guy who had way more time than you and thus grinded all the cool stuff way before you did. Either way it's just a question of how much resources you're willing to spend on the game. And this may be difficult to understand, but time is far more valuable than money.
Which happens to be as productive as playing a game and typing in a forum: not productive at all.
how EXP boost is a P2W item? even on games where lvl is very important like LOTRO, lvl fast to reach max lvl dont give any advantage against other max lvl players, is just to reduce time nothing more nothing less.
if EXP boost was the only item sell on shops every F2P game was a dream for most of players. problem of F2P games is that most of them have really P2W item, like great gear/armour, great buffs, upgrade gear, etc.
this is what P2W item are, item that you pay and give advantage agaisnt any other player that dont spend money on shop.
seriously, if people think EXP boost is any kind of P2W item, is because never saw a really P2W shop
Because unless the game is completely instanced and/or noone ever competes in pvp against each other where gear matters, there will be a major advantage in getting to the higher content first. Now, if the server already has many max level players and you just started, then that's a whole different scenario. I am refering to cases where the server is new and people are still not at max level.
Have you played the game yet man?
There are multiple ways to get 'good gear', each sectioned off to their own areas.
sPvP puts you right at 80, and gives you lvl 80 sPvP-only items.
WvW gives you conquest gear (which is lvl specific), but you're character is also scaled to 80.
PvE rewards you for doing a lot more than grinding. You can rush to max lvl, but as has been shown multiple times, you won't have seen most of the content. You may be slightly more experienced when it comes to dungeons, but that's about it. (However, once you get to max lvl, you do have maximum freedom over which zones you can fight in).
I guessed that his implication regarding "xp boosts" was a general one that extended outside GW2 and I replied to that implication. I've already clarified my position about GW2 itself: which is that I have reason to believe that xp and karma boosts will not give a significant advantage in PvP.
Why would anybody need gold if it is insignificant?
Who said its insignificant?
It's pretty insignificant. Anyone w/ half a brain can make gold insanely easy in this game. Not to mention that there are so many ways to get viable gear, that gold isn't your only option either. The primary use for gold is repair bills, waypoints, and siege blueprints / upgrades. All of which are pretty cheap (especially once you start getting passed lvl 10).
Hate to state the obvious, but this alot like how GW1 played out. And to this day you don't see gold farmers spamming the chat.
Someone already said it, but just list a few:
1. Craft
2.. Tele.
3. Repair.
4. W v W.
5. Gear.
6. Alts (which start the cycle again).
etc.
Just to list a few? That's everything. (and is also a list I already pointed out earlier in the thread)
1) Crafting actually generates gold, unless you are throwing everything out.
2) Tele = cheap (like.. dirt cheap, we are talking coppers - a few silver max)
3) Repair = also cheap. Again, copper or a few silver max.
4) WvW = this comes down to siege blueprints. Again, also cheap.
5) Gear = again, cheap. Also, there are multiple ways to buy good gear. The best gear is actually not bought w/ gold at all.
6) Alts do not cost money (unless you are talking about buying extra character slots).
This all ties back into the point of when I originally made that list, of:
Gold is insanely easy to get in this game. Stuff is cheap, and anyone w/ half a brain can earn money very quickly in this game. Hell, if you are familiar w/ Team Legacy, their leader managed to (by himself) generate ~100gold by lvl 7. Not silver, gold. They've changed how the market works a bit ot prevent it form getting that outrageous, but that should tell you something right there.
Not only is gold insanely easy to get, but there are just not many things of value to purchase with it. It's mostly utility / convenience costs. All of the best gear is purchased with tokens, karma, or badges of some kind, that you can only get for actively participating in the game.
Originally posted by ZenonSeth Please, this isn't WoW or its clones where you can always get better gear no matter how awesome your current level gear is. Buying gold would at best give you a marginal advantage over the casual player, and most likely be used to just buy better looking stuff.
Pissed off that the other guy bought his awesome looking gear while you spend hours working for it? That's about as productive as being pissed off at the guy who had way more time than you and thus grinded all the cool stuff way before you did. Either way it's just a question of how much resources you're willing to spend on the game. And this may be difficult to understand, but time is far more valuable than money.
Which happens to be as productive as playing a game and typing in a forum: not productive at all.
I honestly don't know how your point relates to the question of whether buying gold gives you a significant advantage.
I'm saying it won't give an advantage in fighting, only in looks, and that complaining about someone buying gold is no different than complaining about someone spending way more time in a game than you, in order to get the cool looking stuff.
Gem For Gold and real money...?? k so what abouth it of course its not going to destroy economy and really not going to afect nothing its just a way we can do rmt by anet from theryrs only lol nothing bad about it
Originally posted by ZenonSeth Please, this isn't WoW or its clones where you can always get better gear no matter how awesome your current level gear is. Buying gold would at best give you a marginal advantage over the casual player, and most likely be used to just buy better looking stuff.
Pissed off that the other guy bought his awesome looking gear while you spend hours working for it? That's about as productive as being pissed off at the guy who had way more time than you and thus grinded all the cool stuff way before you did. Either way it's just a question of how much resources you're willing to spend on the game. And this may be difficult to understand, but time is far more valuable than money.
Which happens to be as productive as playing a game and typing in a forum: not productive at all.
I honestly don't know how your point relates to the question of whether buying gold gives you a significant advantage.
I'm saying it won't give an advantage in fighting, only in looks, and that complaining about someone buying gold is no different than complaining about someone spending way more time in a game than you, in order to get the cool looking stuff.
My point related to your point regarding how productive someone is.
Furthermore, I don't think a majority of the complainers have complained about the persons per se, but the company choices to introduce certain systems.
Also, the concept of "To progress in a game, you should play the game" favors the act of of playing a game to achieve progress compared to obtaining the progress through outside means. I will though point out that I mean "progress" in very loose terms, so that even the acquisition of an item is considered a form of progress.
Furthermore, I don't think a majority of the complainers have complained about the persons per se, but the company choices to introduce certain systems.
Also, the concept of "To progress in a game, you should play the game" favors the act of of playing a game to achieve progress compared to obtaining the progress through outside means. I will though point out that I mean "progress" in very loose terms, so that even the acquisition of an item is considered a form of progress.
Eh... if one of your aims is to find cool gear, you might feel bad that someone can just buy it. At the end, none of us are equal - some have more money to spend on a game, some have more time (and I don't have that much time, so I feel at a disadvantage there).
However, I still don't think buying gold has that huge of an impact. (which is what this thread is about). You can earn gold, so you have the same access to items as players do.
Conversly, exchanging gold for gems means you can buy stuff with gems without actually having to pay the real-life money to get the gems.
I think the gold/gems trade actually gives you *more* freedom, not less.
5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only?
Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items.
I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold?
I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.
One thing that some people seem to be ignoring and is painfully obvious after just a few hours with GW2. Gems are going to be the main currency of the game. Gold has its uses ingame but there are not a ton of major gold sinks like in other games. Except for maybe crafting. You could argue that means gems will be extreemly expensive then and this wont work out the way Anet is hoping. I disagree though. Everyone wants to be rich ingame. You may not realise it right away, but there is soemthing wired in our brain that says having a billion gold is important even if its not. In WOW gold was pretty much useless and people still hoarded it.
My biggest worry is how the community will deal with it. Is it going to turn out like EVE or Hellgate London where gold=specific dollar value that is reasonable? That depends on both the sellers, buyers, and how Anet handles gold drops/rewards ingame.
As far as gold sellers go. They are always going to be there. The question is how will Anet handle it. Is gold going to be harder to obtain because there arent the major gold sinks? Or will they make it easy, thus making it easier for gold farmers which in turn will quickly ruin the gem economy in the game.
In game economies are not very robust. So GW2's economy gets borked because gold is no longer a medium of exchange because of gems. And what, the game crashes? Players leave in droves? No, I don't think so.
What will happen is that players won't care about the economy. Which is fine because the economy is going to go to cr@p at some point anyway, with or without the ability to buy and sell gems. Players will continue to play the game.
I just don't think it's going to be a big deal.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only?
Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items.
I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold?
I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.
One thing that some people seem to be ignoring and is painfully obvious after just a few hours with GW2. Gems are going to be the main currency of the game. Gold has its uses ingame but there are not a ton of major gold sinks like in other games. Except for maybe crafting. You could argue that means gems will be extreemly expensive then and this wont work out the way Anet is hoping. I disagree though. Everyone wants to be rich ingame. You may not realise it right away, but there is soemthing wired in our brain that says having a billion gold is important even if its not. In WOW gold was pretty much useless and people still hoarded it.
My biggest worry is how the community will deal with it. Is it going to turn out like EVE or Hellgate London where gold=specific dollar value that is reasonable? That depends on both the sellers, buyers, and how Anet handles gold drops/rewards ingame.
As far as gold sellers go. They are always going to be there. The question is how will Anet handle it. Is gold going to be harder to obtain because there arent the major gold sinks? Or will they make it easy, thus making it easier for gold farmers which in turn will quickly ruin the gem economy in the game.
very true. i know lot of guys that have lot and lot of gold and they just dont want spend it. if they need something they will not spend money on AH.
that have a name....GREED. no matter how much gold they have they want more.
any game where you can trade real money for gold will always have a good playerbase that will use shop, dont matter if they cant do much with Gold, they just like to collect it.
The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers. People buy gold, a lot of people. Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.
Originally posted by uidCaustic The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers. People buy gold, a lot of people. Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.
No...I could afford to buy gold. I could also afford to buy gems from Anet. I probably won't though. Unless the purchase increases my personal enjoyment of the game, there's no reason to spend the money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Gems for gold, gold for gems. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. For the most part gold is insignificant.
What will you buy with gold once you hit 80?. You will max out your gear, fill out your bagspace, buy the commander upgrade, buy character upgrades if you haven't already. All of these things shouldn't dent your money reserves when you reach max level. So what will you buy with your gold then? Vanity items.
Vanity items come in 2 forms. Personal vanity items, which are items you personally find appealing. Epeen vanity items, Items that are mainly meant to show of how much money you have. Most of the time this will be the most rare items ingame. Most notable vanity items will be rare skins and mini pets.
Now for vanity items gold isn't insignificant. This is also the place where gems can have a negative effect on the ingame economy. If gems aren't widely available than they can be used to drive up prices significantly, but the fact that the economy is global and not just server wide should help prevent this somewhat.
Gold will be the main trading currency as it is the only currency usable in the Trading Post. Now if there is a finite amount of gold that you can have than Gems will be used as a form of gold storage. Though due to the lack of direct player -> player trading it can't be used as a form of currency other than what it is designed for.
So gems can affect the economy, but I don't feel it will make to much of an impact as the things you will buy will not be able to affect gameplay.
I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.
The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.
Weren't Arenanet brilliant with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.
The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.
Weren't Arenanet brilliant with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
I sell that to players for lots and lots of gold, because they decide gems are worth a bajillion gold to them.
I use that gold to buy the best crafted armor in the AH.
I have a small but noticeable numeric advantage over someone with crappier gear.
I still lose fights, because that advantage is not enough to offset differences in skill or situational advantages in combat.
Or, I use it to buy millions of plans for WvW.
I can't build millions of seige, because my side doens't contorl that much supply.
Even ifI CAN build lots of siege, the plans are so cheap I didn't need bought gold to do it! That guy on the other side was able to buy 20 treb plans without a problem. More than he's reasonably going to use, certainly more than there's supply for. And never bought a gem in his life.
Or, I use it to buy all the (insert valuable item here) on the market.
Now that I control that item, players buy it from me, giving me MORE gold.
The process repeats.
Oh wait, it doesn't. Other players realize what I'm doing and undersell me.
Wait, I can buy their auctions and resell them. All I have to do it be on 24 hrs a day and snatch up every purchase. Then I can have all the gold! Muahahahahaha
Wait, back to the first situation.
They haven't made Scrooge McDuck money bins yet, so even if I do have 10x the gold as anyone else, what the hell am I going to do with it?
I'm not saying gold is useless. Far from it. I'm saying that all gold/gems buy you is time. You get something a little easier, a little faster, than someone else. You might always have a few more gold than that person, but there are several baffles in place that can/should/hopefully will keep this in balance:
Supply limits the usefulness of hoarding plans.
Gear stats don't vary enough that you are garaunteeed any decent victory rate with better gear that other people.
Everything that touches the market is dependant on every player in it. If people don't buy from/sell to you, your riches mean nothing.
That last, sadly, is the closest thing to a real problem. Other players are just as likely to realize time=money too, and will be willing to throw extra gold your way to save themselves a little farming. Yes there are people that will pay out the nose for a 1% advantage. And in some cases, that might give them the edge they need, because they were already top flight, winning 99% of their fights from sheer skill. This just cements the deal. That means a lot to some people. if it means a lot to you, if you HAVE to have that absolute highest advantage...well...it's up to you how you'd respond. You could play the market by turning your gold into gems (the rerverse of the RMT user), and beat them at their own game. You could rely on your own gathering/questing to keep you sufficiently supplied. It doens't seem that tough to do, just takes longer. Or you could just not care and enjoy the game.
I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.
The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.
Weren't Arenanet brilliant with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
Can you see the difference?
LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.
I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."
Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.
I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.
The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.
Weren't Arenanet brilliant with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
Can you see the difference?
LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.
I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."
Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.
An advantage, yes. I will not deny that. The problem is people's tend to run to extremes. An advantage suddenly=anyone that uses the cash shop "wins" the game, and people that don't can't even come close, so the kids with the credit cards win.
The only serious impact this has is on player time. And I'm not discounting that, I just want it to be clear that's the only location it matters. A player with gems cannot rule over others with an iron fist; not in WvW, not in sPVP, not in PVE, not even in the economy (unless everyone else playing the market is a complete idiot).
I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.
The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.
Weren't Arenanet brilliant with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
Can you see the difference?
LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.
I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."
Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.
An advantage, yes. I will not deny that. The problem is people's tend to run to extremes. An advantage suddenly=anyone that uses the cash shop "wins" the game, and people that don't can't even come close, so the kids with the credit cards win.
The only serious impact this has is on player time. And I'm not discounting that, I just want it to be clear that's the only location it matters. A player with gems cannot rule over others with an iron fist; not in WvW, not in sPVP, not in PVE, not even in the economy (unless everyone else playing the market is a complete idiot).
These discussions get all loopy. Cause I though Mary had the advantage because she actually played the game. I guess fun isn't an advantage to many. Now if Mary had to distastefully grind for gold then yes Bob may have the advantage unless he had to do something more distasteful to earn the money.
Comments
Sad to see you drop your balls, i mean the conversation balls.
WOW: The Most Well Known Non-Free Non-Browser Client-Based 3D Fantasy MMORPG In Some Parts of the World.
Buying gold would at best give you a marginal advantage over the casual player, and most likely be used to just buy better looking stuff.
Pissed off that the other guy bought his awesome looking gear while you spend hours working for it? That's about as productive as being pissed off at the guy who had way more time than you and thus grinded all the cool stuff way before you did. Either way it's just a question of how much resources you're willing to spend on the game. And this may be difficult to understand, but time is far more valuable than money.
Have you played the game yet man?
There are multiple ways to get 'good gear', each sectioned off to their own areas.
sPvP puts you right at 80, and gives you lvl 80 sPvP-only items.
WvW gives you conquest gear (which is lvl specific), but you're character is also scaled to 80.
PvE rewards you for doing a lot more than grinding. You can rush to max lvl, but as has been shown multiple times, you won't have seen most of the content. You may be slightly more experienced when it comes to dungeons, but that's about it. (However, once you get to max lvl, you do have maximum freedom over which zones you can fight in).
Which happens to be as productive as playing a game and typing in a forum: not productive at all.
I guessed that his implication regarding "xp boosts" was a general one that extended outside GW2 and I replied to that implication. I've already clarified my position about GW2 itself: which is that I have reason to believe that xp and karma boosts will not give a significant advantage in PvP.
Just to list a few? That's everything. (and is also a list I already pointed out earlier in the thread)
1) Crafting actually generates gold, unless you are throwing everything out.
2) Tele = cheap (like.. dirt cheap, we are talking coppers - a few silver max)
3) Repair = also cheap. Again, copper or a few silver max.
4) WvW = this comes down to siege blueprints. Again, also cheap.
5) Gear = again, cheap. Also, there are multiple ways to buy good gear. The best gear is actually not bought w/ gold at all.
6) Alts do not cost money (unless you are talking about buying extra character slots).
This all ties back into the point of when I originally made that list, of:
Gold is insanely easy to get in this game. Stuff is cheap, and anyone w/ half a brain can earn money very quickly in this game. Hell, if you are familiar w/ Team Legacy, their leader managed to (by himself) generate ~100gold by lvl 7. Not silver, gold. They've changed how the market works a bit ot prevent it form getting that outrageous, but that should tell you something right there.
Not only is gold insanely easy to get, but there are just not many things of value to purchase with it. It's mostly utility / convenience costs. All of the best gear is purchased with tokens, karma, or badges of some kind, that you can only get for actively participating in the game.
I honestly don't know how your point relates to the question of whether buying gold gives you a significant advantage.
I'm saying it won't give an advantage in fighting, only in looks, and that complaining about someone buying gold is no different than complaining about someone spending way more time in a game than you, in order to get the cool looking stuff.
Gem For Gold and real money...?? k so what abouth it of course its not going to destroy economy and really not going to afect nothing its just a way we can do rmt by anet from theryrs only lol nothing bad about it
My point related to your point regarding how productive someone is.
Furthermore, I don't think a majority of the complainers have complained about the persons per se, but the company choices to introduce certain systems.
Also, the concept of "To progress in a game, you should play the game" favors the act of of playing a game to achieve progress compared to obtaining the progress through outside means. I will though point out that I mean "progress" in very loose terms, so that even the acquisition of an item is considered a form of progress.
Eh... if one of your aims is to find cool gear, you might feel bad that someone can just buy it. At the end, none of us are equal - some have more money to spend on a game, some have more time (and I don't have that much time, so I feel at a disadvantage there).
However, I still don't think buying gold has that huge of an impact. (which is what this thread is about). You can earn gold, so you have the same access to items as players do.
Conversly, exchanging gold for gems means you can buy stuff with gems without actually having to pay the real-life money to get the gems.
I think the gold/gems trade actually gives you *more* freedom, not less.
One thing that some people seem to be ignoring and is painfully obvious after just a few hours with GW2. Gems are going to be the main currency of the game. Gold has its uses ingame but there are not a ton of major gold sinks like in other games. Except for maybe crafting. You could argue that means gems will be extreemly expensive then and this wont work out the way Anet is hoping. I disagree though. Everyone wants to be rich ingame. You may not realise it right away, but there is soemthing wired in our brain that says having a billion gold is important even if its not. In WOW gold was pretty much useless and people still hoarded it.
My biggest worry is how the community will deal with it. Is it going to turn out like EVE or Hellgate London where gold=specific dollar value that is reasonable? That depends on both the sellers, buyers, and how Anet handles gold drops/rewards ingame.
As far as gold sellers go. They are always going to be there. The question is how will Anet handle it. Is gold going to be harder to obtain because there arent the major gold sinks? Or will they make it easy, thus making it easier for gold farmers which in turn will quickly ruin the gem economy in the game.
In game economies are not very robust. So GW2's economy gets borked because gold is no longer a medium of exchange because of gems. And what, the game crashes? Players leave in droves? No, I don't think so.
What will happen is that players won't care about the economy. Which is fine because the economy is going to go to cr@p at some point anyway, with or without the ability to buy and sell gems. Players will continue to play the game.
I just don't think it's going to be a big deal.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
very true. i know lot of guys that have lot and lot of gold and they just dont want spend it. if they need something they will not spend money on AH.
that have a name....GREED. no matter how much gold they have they want more.
any game where you can trade real money for gold will always have a good playerbase that will use shop, dont matter if they cant do much with Gold, they just like to collect it.
The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers. People buy gold, a lot of people. Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.
No...I could afford to buy gold. I could also afford to buy gems from Anet. I probably won't though. Unless the purchase increases my personal enjoyment of the game, there's no reason to spend the money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
What is the problem of players buying gold in this game?
You can't buy power.
Also, you can't trade gems directly with other players - it all goes through the exchange post.
I'm planning on buying character slots, bank panes and bag slots.
If I can do so without spending real world money it is a win for me - in GW1 I had to buy the stuff with real money.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Gems for gold, gold for gems. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. For the most part gold is insignificant.
What will you buy with gold once you hit 80?. You will max out your gear, fill out your bagspace, buy the commander upgrade, buy character upgrades if you haven't already. All of these things shouldn't dent your money reserves when you reach max level. So what will you buy with your gold then? Vanity items.
Vanity items come in 2 forms. Personal vanity items, which are items you personally find appealing. Epeen vanity items, Items that are mainly meant to show of how much money you have. Most of the time this will be the most rare items ingame. Most notable vanity items will be rare skins and mini pets.
Now for vanity items gold isn't insignificant. This is also the place where gems can have a negative effect on the ingame economy. If gems aren't widely available than they can be used to drive up prices significantly, but the fact that the economy is global and not just server wide should help prevent this somewhat.
Gold will be the main trading currency as it is the only currency usable in the Trading Post. Now if there is a finite amount of gold that you can have than Gems will be used as a form of gold storage. Though due to the lack of direct player -> player trading it can't be used as a form of currency other than what it is designed for.
So gems can affect the economy, but I don't feel it will make to much of an impact as the things you will buy will not be able to affect gameplay.
It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".
Oderint, dum metuant.
Can you see the difference?
OK, hypothetical.
LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.
I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop. I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."
Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
An advantage, yes. I will not deny that. The problem is people's tend to run to extremes. An advantage suddenly=anyone that uses the cash shop "wins" the game, and people that don't can't even come close, so the kids with the credit cards win.
The only serious impact this has is on player time. And I'm not discounting that, I just want it to be clear that's the only location it matters. A player with gems cannot rule over others with an iron fist; not in WvW, not in sPVP, not in PVE, not even in the economy (unless everyone else playing the market is a complete idiot).
If I wanted to pay my little brother in gems to level my toon for me while I am out that would be ok?
Yes. That would be fine. If you want to send me your username and password, I'd be happy to do this for you as well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
These discussions get all loopy. Cause I though Mary had the advantage because she actually played the game. I guess fun isn't an advantage to many. Now if Mary had to distastefully grind for gold then yes Bob may have the advantage unless he had to do something more distasteful to earn the money.