Brian Wheeler Quote- PvP Lead

ZigZags · June 2012

At 5:01 when he says "Of course we're going to have battlegrounds......standard fare for any modern game out there....."

This just floored me....how out of touch and arrogant these people are. Taking my Elder Scrolls and trying to mainstream it for box sales by appealing to the same market dominated by WoW. This just proves to me that ZeniMax is not creative, not thinking outside the box and will be a failure on the scale of SWTOR. I am seriously sad about this.

Battlegrounds remove people from the world you've created and puts them into some mini game that ends of dominating most pvper's time. It totally DEFEATS the purpose of any world PvP whatsoever.

sirphobos · June 2012

You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Vesavius · June 2012

BGs are fine, even preferable in PvP games based on lvls/ class/ gear.

In games that rely on open world PvP though the rewards have to be better in the world then in an instance. Players always follow the path of least resistance.

hikaru77 · June 2012

Originally posted by ZigZags
At 5:01 when he says "Of course we're going to have battlegrounds......standard fare for any modern game out there....." This just floored me....how out of touch and arrogant these people are. Taking my Elder Scrolls and trying to mainstream it for box sales by appealing to the same market dominated by WoW. This just proves to me that ZeniMax is not creative, not thinking outside the box and will be a failure on the scale of SWTOR. I am seriously sad about this. Battlegrounds remove people from the world you've created and puts them into some mini game that ends of dominating most pvper's time. It totally DEFEATS the purpose of any world PvP whatsoever.

Your ES?, lol, I love the game but after warhammer online BGs are a must if you want to make a MMO. And again this is not a SRPG is a MMO, deal with it.

ZigZags · June 2012

Your ES?, lol, I love the game but after warhammer online BGs are a must if you want to make a MMO. And again this is not a SRPG is a MMO, deal with it.

Why would you say that? WAR was a disaster and would have been 10x better if they didn't have scenarios/bgs because that's what most would do when not city sieging and rather than taking forts, people would be loitering at camps qued for BGs........if you want to BG PvP why not play COD or Street Fighter? Battlegrounds have no place in any MMO that wants players to feel like they are part of something bigger.

ZigZags · June 2012

Originally posted by sirphobos

You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Thanks for reminding me, I've played GW2 for 2 Beta weekends....if it weren't free for me (already paid) I probably wouldn't play it at launch. It's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMO and I couldn't feel more detached.

SEANMCAD · June 2012

Originally posted by ZigZags
Originally posted by sirphobos
You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Thanks for reminding me, I've played GW2 for 2 Beta weekends....if it weren't free for me (already paid) I probably wouldn't play it at launch. It's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMO and I couldn't feel more detached.

well besides pointing out that GW2 has something that TES Online will have kind of prooves the point even more so, regardless of if the person making that observation plans to play the game or not.

kind of backfired on him that.

Vesavius · June 2012

Originally posted by ZigZags
Originally posted by sirphobos
You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Thanks for reminding me, I've played GW2 for 2 Beta weekends....if it weren't free for me (already paid) I probably wouldn't play it at launch. It's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMO and I couldn't feel more detached.

You 'already paid' for a game that is the 'exact opposite' of what you are looking for?

I guess you will be here to complain about it post launch though eh?

SEANMCAD · June 2012

Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by ZigZags
Originally posted by sirphobos
You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Thanks for reminding me, I've played GW2 for 2 Beta weekends....if it weren't free for me (already paid) I probably wouldn't play it at launch. It's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMO and I couldn't feel more detached.

You 'already paid' for a game that is the 'exact opposite' of what you are looking for?

I guess you will be here to complain about it post launch though eh?

A hole is being dug here. what many people do not understand is the difference between the message and the messenger. If what the person is saying is true it doesnt much matter about that persons conduct, past or even how he says what he says.

Pointing out that GW2 has the same feature that TES online has only further prooves that the game is venturing away from its core and into the mainstream of what already exists everywhere.

Entinerint · June 2012

I need like 20 more palms and 10 more faces to express what I feel about this quote.

ZigZags · June 2012

Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by ZigZags

Originally posted by sirphobos

You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

Thanks for reminding me, I've played GW2 for 2 Beta weekends....if it weren't free for me (already paid) I probably wouldn't play it at launch. It's the exact opposite of what I'm looking for in an MMO and I couldn't feel more detached.

You 'already paid' for a game that is the 'exact opposite' of what you are looking for?

I guess you will be here to complain about it post launch though eh?

Yes. If you look at my sig you'll notice I have played many MMOs over the years. It is a hobby of mine. Only a couple have stuck with me for many years. When my group of gaming friends moves to a new game, I try it even if I dont think ill like it. Then I quit or a stay a little while. I work hard and can afford it, its my right. Not something to feel bad about it anyway.

Chrisbox · June 2012

Cool story bro, you dont like it. Best example to give here is GW2, structured pvp for those who want to show off superior tactics in tournaments and free games, and WvW for those large scale fights and progression. Hopefully ESO can pull together a similar system with battlegrounds and 3 faction world pvp. Thats plenty of pvp for a hardcore pvper, and if there combat system is as good as described then im sure there will be a very happy pvp crowd.

Entinerint · June 2012

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Cool story bro, you dont like it. Best example to give here is GW2, structured pvp for those who want to show off superior tactics in tournaments and free games, and WvW for those large scale fights and progression. Hopefully ESO can pull together a similar system with battlegrounds and 3 faction world pvp. Thats plenty of pvp for a hardcore pvper, and if there combat system is as good as described then im sure there will be a very happy pvp crowd.

But wait, they haven't described a good combat system, they've described a mediocre one that is an unpolished mixture of GW2 and Neverwinter.

The hardcore PvP crowd have any number of other titles that will cater to them. If battlegrounds are the thing hardcore PvPers are into (strange, I always thought FFA was the hardest of the core) then why would they even bother with this game? The hardcore PvPers are also a small group within the MMO nomads. I doubt they'd stick with a game like this for more than a month or two.

ste2000 · June 2012

Originally posted by sirphobos
You are aware that GW2 has battlegrounds too, right? Just thought I'd mention that since your sig says you are going to play it.

GW2 is not TES

I expect GW2 to have all the thempark features and I am fine with it.

But I am not confortable with TESO having it, that is not what I was expecting from a TES MMO.............why play a TES online if it plays like GW2?

I won't buy TESO just because it is has the Elders Scroll brand on the box..........it also has to play and feel like a TES game

TES and battlegrounds are an awful idea, if I want that, I will keep playing GW2 which looks like a great Thempark

Let me put this straight.

If TESO doesn't offer anything significantly better than GW2, I will play GW2 even if I am a TES long term fan (I played all 5 of them since Arena in 1994)

I don't want WOW with the TES badge, I want Skyrim with a MMO build.......that's a huge difference in concept.

I hope Zenimax understand this tiny detail.............Bioware didn't understood what Star Wars fans expected from a MMO and we all can see the results (Let's not even talk about STO).

ShakyMo · June 2012

They've got the open dungeons, they got the rvr province.

I think it would be cool if they differentiated themselves by having a "no instances whatsoever" rule.

ZigZags · June 2012

Originally posted by ShakyMo
They've got the open dungeons, they got the rvr province.

I think it would be cool if they differentiated themselves by having a "no instances whatsoever" rule.

They never said that enemy faction could go in to the "Open dungeons" or even into the opposing faction territory. I totally agree with your last statement. It scares me to think the only pvp availale will be at acentral HUB and queing for BGs.

Chrisbox · June 2012

Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Cool story bro, you dont like it. Best example to give here is GW2, structured pvp for those who want to show off superior tactics in tournaments and free games, and WvW for those large scale fights and progression. Hopefully ESO can pull together a similar system with battlegrounds and 3 faction world pvp. Thats plenty of pvp for a hardcore pvper, and if there combat system is as good as described then im sure there will be a very happy pvp crowd.

But wait, they haven't described a good combat system, they've described a mediocre one that is an unpolished mixture of GW2 and Neverwinter.

The hardcore PvP crowd have any number of other titles that will cater to them. If battlegrounds are the thing hardcore PvPers are into (strange, I always thought FFA was the hardest of the core) then why would they even bother with this game? The hardcore PvPers are also a small group within the MMO nomads. I doubt they'd stick with a game like this for more than a month or two.

"There's a minimal UI in place, with the same three main stat pools we're used to from TES: stamina, health, and magic. Blocking attacks with your shield will use stamina, spells use magicka, and health, well... it's health. The blocking is an active ability: think of it like the Lancer mechanic from TERA. There's no auto-attack, and from the UI we saw, there's only about six skills available at any one time on the hotbar. Some will be tied to your weapon choice, while others will come from your ability choices while leveling up through the game's 50 levels." Sounds interesting enough to me, GW2 and TERA have the best combat I've played to date so combining the best of both worlds and throwing in their own little take, im down.

As for hardcore pvp I think you may have misunderstood me, I sort of leaned towards the definition of hardcore meaning one who solely pvps. Not the actual hardcore pvp crowd, but they're awesome too.

ste2000 · June 2012

Originally posted by ShakyMo
They've got the open dungeons, they got the rvr province.

I think it would be cool if they differentiated themselves by having a "no instances whatsoever" rule.

Not having the "plastic" instanced Battlegrounds would be a good start already...........Tamriel should be the only Battleground.

Zenimax needs to be bold and realise that they don't need to cram all the features of this world in their game just for the sake of it

Quantity doesn't always equal quality...............just stick with TES basics and leave WOW alone.

Entinerint · June 2012

Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Cool story bro, you dont like it. Best example to give here is GW2, structured pvp for those who want to show off superior tactics in tournaments and free games, and WvW for those large scale fights and progression. Hopefully ESO can pull together a similar system with battlegrounds and 3 faction world pvp. Thats plenty of pvp for a hardcore pvper, and if there combat system is as good as described then im sure there will be a very happy pvp crowd.

But wait, they haven't described a good combat system, they've described a mediocre one that is an unpolished mixture of GW2 and Neverwinter.

The hardcore PvP crowd have any number of other titles that will cater to them. If battlegrounds are the thing hardcore PvPers are into (strange, I always thought FFA was the hardest of the core) then why would they even bother with this game? The hardcore PvPers are also a small group within the MMO nomads. I doubt they'd stick with a game like this for more than a month or two.

"There's a minimal UI in place, with the same three main stat pools we're used to from TES: stamina, health, and magic. Blocking attacks with your shield will use stamina, spells use magicka, and health, well... it's health. The blocking is an active ability: think of it like the Lancer mechanic from TERA. There's no auto-attack, and from the UI we saw, there's only about six skills available at any one time on the hotbar. Some will be tied to your weapon choice, while others will come from your ability choices while leveling up through the game's 50 levels." Sounds interesting enough to me.

As for hardcore pvp I think you may have misunderstood me, I sort of leaned towards the definition of hardcore meaning one who solely pvps. Not the actual hardcore pvp crowd, but they're awesome too.

Ah okay, understood re: hardcore pvp.

I don't really see anything in that description that makes it like TES though. Tera, Neverwinter, GW2 all have similar systems. Where TES is concerned, interesting "enough" isn't what you want to hear.

TES combat is about one thing above all other things: aiming. You have to aim your spells, aim your arrows and aim your swings. You have to maneuver and use the environment to gain advantage. You can have abilities and hotbars and all that jazz, just like Mortal Online or Darkfall, but if you aren't aiming, it just isn't TES combat. Every TES game from Arena on up has required you to aim, even Morrowind which had a dice-roll skill-based to-hit system, it was still direct-action aimed combat.

Tab-targetting defeats that entirely. SWTOR doesn't have an auto-attack either but it is no more compelling combat-wise.

TES combat is also by no means perfect. Skyrim was a huge leap forward and Oblivion was fun, but at anything lower than master difficulty it wasn't great. But I will always argue that the floatiest aimed real-time combat is far more compelling than the most complex tab-targetting cooldown system.

The former is a mile deep and an inch wide. The latter is a mile wide and an inch deep. I prefer depth over width personally, but that doesn't mean you can't have something deep and wide, like Darkfall. (lol deep and wide )

solarine · June 2012

GW2 does have battlegrounds, but then GW2 is a disjointed game that feels as if made up of parts and not a coherent whole... Maybe that's alright because the Guild Wars legacy is more about fun combat, competition and beautiful art than about an uninterrupted coherent world.

The Elder Scrolls legacy, on the other hand, is all about the feeling of being in such a world, all about integrity, coherence, comprehensiveness and I'd even say authenticity (yeah, to something that doesn't even exist, I know. :P). So when you put in such a "gamey" thing as a battleground in it, you can't expect people to get a TES rush out of it.

Now, some of the design decisions of this game appeals to my tastes as an MMO gamer, but I can easily see why the TES fans are feeling so disappointed and let down by every new statement from the developers.

Terronte · June 2012

I hate to break it to everyone all excited about another IP being made into an MMO. It's not going to be what you want. It's going to be your favorite IP slathered over a WoW base..with some sort of twist so they can say it's innovative. You heard it here first.

Dominionlord · June 2012

Originally posted by ZigZags
Your ES?, lol, I love the game but after warhammer online BGs are a must if you want to make a MMO. And again this is not a SRPG is a MMO, deal with it.

Why would you say that? WAR was a disaster and would have been 10x better if they didn't have scenarios/bgs because that's what most would do when not city sieging and rather than taking forts, people would be loitering at camps qued for BGs........if you want to BG PvP why not play COD or Street Fighter? Battlegrounds have no place in any MMO that wants players to feel like they are part of something bigger.

This guy gets it. open world pvp is way more fun. Was fun in WAR but not utilized enough because of BG's

Wolvards · June 2012

@OP

thanks for that! That made me like the game much more, cause if you actually listen to all of what he said, and what he was asked, he gave some good info.

Not to mention the bringing back of true large scale warfare, not this under 100 person poop we get that's called, "large scale warfare." Nah, i'm talking a war, not a skirmish!

Chrisbox · June 2012

Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Cool story bro, you dont like it. Best example to give here is GW2, structured pvp for those who want to show off superior tactics in tournaments and free games, and WvW for those large scale fights and progression. Hopefully ESO can pull together a similar system with battlegrounds and 3 faction world pvp. Thats plenty of pvp for a hardcore pvper, and if there combat system is as good as described then im sure there will be a very happy pvp crowd.

But wait, they haven't described a good combat system, they've described a mediocre one that is an unpolished mixture of GW2 and Neverwinter.

The hardcore PvP crowd have any number of other titles that will cater to them. If battlegrounds are the thing hardcore PvPers are into (strange, I always thought FFA was the hardest of the core) then why would they even bother with this game? The hardcore PvPers are also a small group within the MMO nomads. I doubt they'd stick with a game like this for more than a month or two.

"There's a minimal UI in place, with the same three main stat pools we're used to from TES: stamina, health, and magic. Blocking attacks with your shield will use stamina, spells use magicka, and health, well... it's health. The blocking is an active ability: think of it like the Lancer mechanic from TERA. There's no auto-attack, and from the UI we saw, there's only about six skills available at any one time on the hotbar. Some will be tied to your weapon choice, while others will come from your ability choices while leveling up through the game's 50 levels." Sounds interesting enough to me.

As for hardcore pvp I think you may have misunderstood me, I sort of leaned towards the definition of hardcore meaning one who solely pvps. Not the actual hardcore pvp crowd, but they're awesome too.

Ah okay, understood re: hardcore pvp.

I don't really see anything in that description that makes it like TES though. Tera, Neverwinter, GW2 all have similar systems. Where TES is concerned, interesting "enough" isn't what you want to hear.

TES combat is about one thing above all other things: aiming. You have to aim your spells, aim your arrows and aim your swings. You have to maneuver and use the environment to gain advantage. You can have abilities and hotbars and all that jazz, just like Mortal Online or Darkfall, but if you aren't aiming, it just isn't TES combat. Every TES game from Arena on up has required you to aim, even Morrowind which had a dice-roll skill-based to-hit system, it was still direct-action aimed combat.

Tab-targetting defeats that entirely. SWTOR doesn't have an auto-attack either but it is no more compelling combat-wise.

TES combat is also by no means perfect. Skyrim was a huge leap forward and Oblivion was fun, but at anything lower than master difficulty it wasn't great. But I will always argue that the floatiest aimed real-time combat is far more compelling than the most complex tab-targetting cooldown system.

The former is a mile deep and an inch wide. The latter is a mile wide and an inch deep. I prefer depth over width personally, but that doesn't mean you can't have something deep and wide, like Darkfall. (lol deep and wide )

Yea theres been alot of talk about how much ES is getting put into ESO, and it bothers alot of players but theres still alot to be seen, and alot to be revealed besides a couple poorly worded sentences. From what I've gathered, they still want to have a heavy emphasis on open world gameplay, and exploration, and overall keep that ES feel you get when playing skyrim and such. They also seem to be encouraging social interaction within the world, which is something alot of games are doing and I like to see, its an MMO it should feel like one unlike some where the world means nothing. Im happy to see one of my favorite IP's being brought into the mmo space regardless, and I think before speculating any further I'd like to see some gameplay to confirm everything being thrown around now.

ste2000 · June 2012

Originally posted by Terronte
I hate to break it to everyone all excited about another IP being made into an MMO. It's not going to be what you want. It's going to be your favorite IP slathered over a WoW base..with some sort of twist so they can say it's innovative. You heard it here first.

I hate to break it to you but all MMO with Battlegrounds apart from WOW failed miserably, so it is not essential for any MMO, let alone a TES one.

TES has enough to stand on his own feet without copy/pasting all the features any other failed AAA MMO delivered so far.

It's not about what I want but what the market wants, and from the collapse of subscription rate of recent AAA MMOs, it is evident people don't want that crap.

Chrisbox · June 2012

Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Terronte

I hate to break it to everyone all excited about another IP being made into an MMO. It's not going to be what you want. It's going to be your favorite IP slathered over a WoW base..with some sort of twist so they can say it's innovative. You heard it here first.

I hate to break it to you but all MMO with Battlegrounds apart from WOW failed miserably, so it is not essential for any MMO, let alone a TES one.

TES has enough to stand on his own feet without copy/pasting all the features any other failed AAA MMO delivered so far.

It's not about what I want but what the market wants, and from the collapse of subscription rate of recent AAA MMOs, it is evident people don't want that crap.

Honestly though having something for the more tournament style pvp audience is a good decision, the problem with all of those MMO's is that they have based their entire pvp off of instanced battlegrounds.

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