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What does TSW combat really come down to? (keyboard input)

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,558Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
     

     That said which is very much off topic, I do understand what you are trying to say but I don't agree 100% afterall it is a game meant to be enjoyed my the masses not a select few. Most games you do the same, I played a Rogue in wow and for years it was SS times envis keep SnD up not a hard rotation. Same with Rift spam a few abilities and you are golden, here I found it to be a bit refreshing and there are passives that do grant extra builder points so there is a bit more though process,not much but a little more for me.

     

    Point taken - and that is a good one. I can see how you could look at TSW as sort of a "I just want to turn my brain off and shoot some stuff" game - I guess it does that very well. It's engaging just enough to keep you alrert and engaged but it doesn't go anywhere too involved as far as combat is concerned.

    I am a big fan of Rift, well to be more precise I am big fan of Trion as they know how to pump out content and constantly change the game to keep it fresh. But yeah, the combat system was straight forward and macroable (on purpose - gotta give it to Trion again!) - they have a good understanding of how to make it beneficial for the player. 

    More developers could learn from them....

     

     

  • SaxonbladeSaxonblade PHILADELPHIA, PAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
     

     That said which is very much off topic, I do understand what you are trying to say but I don't agree 100% afterall it is a game meant to be enjoyed my the masses not a select few. Most games you do the same, I played a Rogue in wow and for years it was SS times envis keep SnD up not a hard rotation. Same with Rift spam a few abilities and you are golden, here I found it to be a bit refreshing and there are passives that do grant extra builder points so there is a bit more though process,not much but a little more for me.

     

    Point taken - and that is a good one. I can see how you could look at TSW as sort of a "I just want to turn my brain off and shoot some stuff" game - I guess it does that very well. It's engaging just enough to keep you alrert and engaged but it doesn't go anywhere too involved as far as combat is concerned.

    I am a big fan of Rift, well to be more precise I am big fan of Trion as they know how to pump out content and constantly change the game to keep it fresh. But yeah, the combat system was straight forward and macroable (on purpose - gotta give it to Trion again!) - they have a good understanding of how to make it beneficial for the player. 

    More developers could learn from them....

     

     

    I think I had like 10 lines (some more some less) in my combat macros, it did make life easy lol

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,558Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tares

    For years we joked about class balance, to make every class balanced they would need to be the same and this is as close as you can get to that. Swapping one synergy to the next, one weapon to the next, one build to the next my killing power is + or - 15% at max.  I noticed this when swaped builds today and didn't pick up any passives.

     

     

    This was one of those "what if...." questions that I discussed with my friends the other day.

     

    Let's face it - the skill wheel is one of the most intrguing aspects of TSW - what if all of these different combinations lead to pretty much the same result?

    This is the question that came up - and it's interesting that you are bringing up the same point. If that is the case end game - then the whole 500 skills and all of those endless combinations - it just ends up being a bunch of the same thing, which would be really sad.

     

     

  • SaxonbladeSaxonblade PHILADELPHIA, PAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by steveys19

    I think the combat would be enjoyable if you could equip multiple "decks" at the same time and be able to swap through them on the fly.  You can obtain a large variety of skills, but when you finally select what you want, it is somewhat limited (active/passive).  That's the feeling I had anyways...

    You can, you save your builds and equipment and can change anytime you want with the click of a button. I don't know of any other game that allows so many builds available with the lcik of a button.

    i.e. I have a Hammer/Swords build saved for melee, I have a pistols/shottie build for ranged dps and snares, I have a blood pistols for healing soo many options

    image

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by rpgalon
     

    I'm playing the CB for almost 3 months, already pre-ordered, I love the combat, maybe it is because I'm using a build that not only is good, but also fun.

    your build probably sux if you think that it is all TSW is about, or you didn't even left Kingsmouth.

    Is there much difference from one build to the next? no

    You are going to get a single target builder, you are going to get a single target spender for one weapon, you are going to get some AoE, either builder or spender.  You are going to get a secondary weapon spender, which may be the AoE.

    So you have 3-4 free slots.  You are going to get some type of CC likely a stun.  You are also going to get a gap closer if melee or a snare if ranged.  All on long cooldown > 30 seconds.

    You have one or zero more abilities and I always get a 100 damage heal, it may take 40 casts to heal up but since AI is bad you can kite around spamming it on many mobs.

    After all of that most builds play the same.  I can kill 99% of content, with two buttons, most of the quests are go kill 10 mobs so I face roll those tiers with two buttons.

    After that, melee weapons are very boring compared to say world of warcraft, ranged weapons are a bit better.  However, combat AI and gameplay feels like a 13 year old game, everquest.  The mobs clump up and a the ranged run off and after that it is based on your stats more than anything else, while having the little animation of the NPCs.  I can't tell what the MoBs are doing half the time and only need to move when there is a white marker on the ground.

    For years we joked about class balance, to make every class balanced they would need to be the same and this is as close as you can get to that. Swapping one synergy to the next, one weapon to the next, one build to the next my killing power is + or - 15% at max.  I noticed this when swaped builds today and didn't pick up any passives.

     

    what you are saying isnt entirely right, some consumer skills burn all your combo points some dont, some of the consumers that consume all arent effected by the additional points, so there using your head does make a difference.

    granted you are right, I still wouldnt mind to have a bit more skill defining feel to the weapons and builds we pick.

  • steveys19steveys19 Doylestown, PAPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by steveys19

    I think the combat would be enjoyable if you could equip multiple "decks" at the same time and be able to swap through them on the fly.  You can obtain a large variety of skills, but when you finally select what you want, it is somewhat limited (active/passive).  That's the feeling I had anyways...

    You can, you save your builds and equipment and can change anytime you want with the click of a button. I don't know of any other game that allows so many builds available with the lcik of a button.

    i.e. I have a Hammer/Swords build saved for melee, I have a pistols/shottie build for ranged dps and snares, I have a blood pistols for healing soo many options

    oh cool, I'll have to mess around with that

  • SaxonbladeSaxonblade PHILADELPHIA, PAPosts: 275Member
    Originally posted by steveys19
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by steveys19

    I think the combat would be enjoyable if you could equip multiple "decks" at the same time and be able to swap through them on the fly.  You can obtain a large variety of skills, but when you finally select what you want, it is somewhat limited (active/passive).  That's the feeling I had anyways...

    You can, you save your builds and equipment and can change anytime you want with the click of a button. I don't know of any other game that allows so many builds available with the lcik of a button.

    i.e. I have a Hammer/Swords build saved for melee, I have a pistols/shottie build for ranged dps and snares, I have a blood pistols for healing soo many options

    oh cool, I'll have to mess around with that

    No problem I enjoy Illuminating people about what the game really has.

    image

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    If you keep track of your procs, you wont press the same button more than twice in a row. Unless your deck is crap.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Winston, PAPosts: 998Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    If you keep track of your procs, you wont press the same button more than twice in a row. Unless your deck is crap.

    So, for instance, you would suggest multipe single-target builders in your deck? Because there are plenty of places pressing your aoe is just silly suicide.

    Oh and single targets hit at least 30-50% harder than aoes. Appropriating more space to another single target builder is just taking away another slot for any fun tools you might want to have.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
    Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  • tarestares York, PAPosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by rpgalon
     

    I'm playing the CB for almost 3 months, already pre-ordered, I love the combat, maybe it is because I'm using a build that not only is good, but also fun.

    your build probably sux if you think that it is all TSW is about, or you didn't even left Kingsmouth.

    Is there much difference from one build to the next? no

    You are going to get a single target builder, you are going to get a single target spender for one weapon, you are going to get some AoE, either builder or spender.  You are going to get a secondary weapon spender, which may be the AoE.

    So you have 3-4 free slots.  You are going to get some type of CC likely a stun.  You are also going to get a gap closer if melee or a snare if ranged.  All on long cooldown > 30 seconds.

    You have one or zero more abilities and I always get a 100 damage heal, it may take 40 casts to heal up but since AI is bad you can kite around spamming it on many mobs.

    After all of that most builds play the same.  I can kill 99% of content, with two buttons, most of the quests are go kill 10 mobs so I face roll those tiers with two buttons.

    After that, melee weapons are very boring compared to say world of warcraft, ranged weapons are a bit better.  However, combat AI and gameplay feels like a 13 year old game, everquest.  The mobs clump up and a the ranged run off and after that it is based on your stats more than anything else, while having the little animation of the NPCs.  I can't tell what the MoBs are doing half the time and only need to move when there is a white marker on the ground.

    For years we joked about class balance, to make every class balanced they would need to be the same and this is as close as you can get to that. Swapping one synergy to the next, one weapon to the next, one build to the next my killing power is + or - 15% at max.  I noticed this when swaped builds today and didn't pick up any passives.

     

    what you are saying isnt entirely right, some consumer skills burn all your combo points some dont, some of the consumers that consume all arent effected by the additional points, so there using your head does make a difference.

    granted you are right, I still wouldnt mind to have a bit more skill defining feel to the weapons and builds we pick.

    Point taken but if compare a 2 or 3 point spender to a 5 point the two point will do less, like 2/5ths or 3/5ths.  The ones I see do even less but give some bonus like a synergy, adds a dot that does 30 damage (lol) but u can get more damage later by hiting a target with a dot from another skill. I am using DPS builds as a comparison because all weapons have them and tanking is almost the same idea, healing may not be as healers seem to be having issues.

    Yeah if you must have the 100% best DPS build, you will take a special starter which gives 2 resources if you have none, then a special builder that gives one resource and modifies an effect based from a passive, then use that debuff to use a special spender, then start over but this timeyou build to 5 and use a finisher that gets boosted by your debuffs.  However, after spending time to plan many of those builds, the good old 1,2 for single target or 1,3 for multi target builds kill as fast and then I can pick up CC, Stun, Self heal.

    Also, the hardest instance modes require a gimick, a purge or remove debuff will be the gimmick most of the time so for the combat you need more than two or 3 skills, you only have 6.

     

     

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by Deathofsage
    Originally posted by DannyGlover If you keep track of your procs, you wont press the same button more than twice in a row. Unless your deck is crap.
    So, for instance, you would suggest multipe single-target builders in your deck? Because there are plenty of places pressing your aoe is just silly suicide.

    Oh and single targets hit at least 30-50% harder than aoes. Appropriating more space to another single target builder is just taking away another slot for any fun tools you might want to have.



    not really.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • PanthienPanthien ZaandamPosts: 559Member
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by Panthien
    Originally posted by tares
    Originally posted by rpgalon
     

    I'm playing the CB for almost 3 months, already pre-ordered, I love the combat, maybe it is because I'm using a build that not only is good, but also fun.

    your build probably sux if you think that it is all TSW is about, or you didn't even left Kingsmouth.

    Is there much difference from one build to the next? no

    You are going to get a single target builder, you are going to get a single target spender for one weapon, you are going to get some AoE, either builder or spender.  You are going to get a secondary weapon spender, which may be the AoE.

    So you have 3-4 free slots.  You are going to get some type of CC likely a stun.  You are also going to get a gap closer if melee or a snare if ranged.  All on long cooldown > 30 seconds.

    You have one or zero more abilities and I always get a 100 damage heal, it may take 40 casts to heal up but since AI is bad you can kite around spamming it on many mobs.

    After all of that most builds play the same.  I can kill 99% of content, with two buttons, most of the quests are go kill 10 mobs so I face roll those tiers with two buttons.

    After that, melee weapons are very boring compared to say world of warcraft, ranged weapons are a bit better.  However, combat AI and gameplay feels like a 13 year old game, everquest.  The mobs clump up and a the ranged run off and after that it is based on your stats more than anything else, while having the little animation of the NPCs.  I can't tell what the MoBs are doing half the time and only need to move when there is a white marker on the ground.

    For years we joked about class balance, to make every class balanced they would need to be the same and this is as close as you can get to that. Swapping one synergy to the next, one weapon to the next, one build to the next my killing power is + or - 15% at max.  I noticed this when swaped builds today and didn't pick up any passives.

     

    what you are saying isnt entirely right, some consumer skills burn all your combo points some dont, some of the consumers that consume all arent effected by the additional points, so there using your head does make a difference.

    granted you are right, I still wouldnt mind to have a bit more skill defining feel to the weapons and builds we pick.

    Point taken but if compare a 2 or 3 point spender to a 5 point the two point will do less, like 2/5ths or 3/5ths.  The ones I see do even less but give some bonus like a synergy, adds a dot that does 30 damage (lol) but u can get more damage later by hiting a target with a dot from another skill. I am using DPS builds as a comparison because all weapons have them and tanking is almost the same idea, healing may not be as healers seem to be having issues.

    Yeah if you must have the 100% best DPS build, you will take a special starter which gives 2 resources if you have none, then a special builder that gives one resource and modifies an effect based from a passive, then use that debuff to use a special spender, then start over but this timeyou build to 5 and use a finisher that gets boosted by your debuffs.  However, after spending time to plan many of those builds, the good old 1,2 for single target or 1,3 for multi target builds kill as fast and then I can pick up CC, Stun, Self heal.

    Also, the hardest instance modes require a gimick, a purge or remove debuff will be the gimmick most of the time so for the combat you need more than two or 3 skills, you only have 6.

     

     

    I want to disagree with you but really cant.

    Granted picking dps as excample planning the best synergy and order to use your skills will net better results but right now, atleast for the ..leveling/solo play stuff, mobs die too fast and too easy to really notice, then again thats kinna a standard trade in mmo's in general.

    I actually do have the feeling there will be some tweaks in the future to give a larger accent on this, lets face it people like to have the feel their smarter planning on picking skills and traits makes a difference. This actually would be a great thing, since it gives people the feeling it rewards them for being smarter then the other guy and will actually end up contributing to giving a unique and defining feel to picking a weapon.

    Im sure Im not alone on this but I want to actually have the feeling there is a difference betwine using claws or swords or what ever. Right now it really does feel its mostly in the animations. I do appologise for not being able to bring it to words any better.

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member

    If you hit 1 button to build and another button to consume, even spread out to 2 weapon classes, youre gonna get kicked from nightmare modes for having pathetic dps and steamrolled in pvp.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • rdrpappyrdrpappy Hamilton, OHPosts: 325Member

    All the technicals aside, the pvp itself is a breath of fresh air, the large open, multi tierd environment to just throw down was awesome.

    I'm burnt on the rotating insert number of group size, pvp games, I like the war feel to it in TSW. I felt like I was back in Shadowbane, even more so when you look at all the different build potential.

    I'm really liking TSW so far.

  • tarestares York, PAPosts: 381Member
    Originally posted by DannyGlover

    If you hit 1 button to build and another button to consume, even spread out to 2 weapon classes, youre gonna get kicked from nightmare modes for having pathetic dps and steamrolled in pvp.

    not really, I blow people up in PvP with 2 buttons from max range often, I max out the DPS out score for my faction even when I think I was getting rolled, but I play a dragon and at times we are getting rolled because uneven 3 vs 3 is part of the game?

    You can tank 6 of 8 instances with 3 buttons, I have done it as it gets me groups faster and I have the gear, so 2 buttons should be more than enough for a DPS.

    I'm not lazy and get props even in this game but it is pretty optimal.  The mechanics and scripting don't change between difficulties, just HPs, damage out, and sometimes you need to cure DoTs or purge the mob but you could have done that anyway in easier modes.

     

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor AdelaidePosts: 549Member Uncommon

    I spent roughly 90 hours playing the game over the past 2 weekends, ended with a character in mostly QL6 gear with a 6 different weapons unlocked + a lot of early outer ring abilities as well.

    My skill set in the end was

    1 - Builder

    2 - Chaos attack

    3 - Blade attack

    4 - AoE builder

    5 - Charge

    6 - Defensive cooldown

    7 - Defensive cooldown

     

    My rotation was spam 1, then used 2 and 3 at five resource or against groups I would spam 4 until five resources then use 2 and 3. Sometimes I would use 6 and 7 if needed and I had 5 to start the attack or to provide mobility.

    This was enough to walk through pretty much any quest I encountered.

    This game does not have great combat, but that's ok for me.  I played Tera which was advertised as having great combat and didn't enjoy it so for me TSW level of combat suits me.  I was good at PvP in this game, very good and I think the basic combat system helps me out a lot.

    So I'm happy, but if you are looking for a great combat system this game isn't it.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

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