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Yep, i used to do 4wheeling/rock crawling in the rocky mountains, just about every time you go up somethings is gonna happen, shear a centering pin off your leaf springs, bust a brake line, etc. You can drop 4+ grand a year on that hobby just keeping your rig up and runnin.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I guess the fact that a large chunk of AAA MMOs have adopted a F2P model, shows that $15 a month is not a very good value for the service or product.
It is all because we do not have that currency symbol on our keyboards! I am telling you that is it!!
Not saying you are wrong , but Im curious of which AAA mmos you talk about who adopted the f2p model.
Wow...that is extremely steep considering that is almost 1/3 the cost of a new game each month more or less...this will turn people off...
Ok, geniuses, riddle me this... if they will see a massive boom from going f2p, this assumes that F2P makes more money than Subscriptions... being that is the case, where do you think said money is going to come from? Thin air? The top 1% of earners in the country? Will it be donated by the red cross?
NO, it will come from YOUR pockets, YOU, THE CONSUMER.
Explain to me how F2P is a good thing. Its just flat NOT. Anybody who doesnt have their head firmly inserted in their rear end could see this. Yet you guys seem to continue to be willfully ignorant and assume that because F2P is the current option to your oh so hated subscription model, that it somehow makes it a good thing.
The average F2P player spends $27/mo on the game, explain to me how this is better than getting fleeced as you guys make it out, for paying $15/mo.
I'm trying to refrain from ad hominem attacks, but the only thing i can think of that explains it is either wilful igorance, or plain stupidity.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Sony got very good at putting items in the cash shop that people were willing to pay for. I bet they make more than double on EQ1 and 2 now then they did 2 years ago off pure subs.
The only AAA games that have adopted a F2P or quasi F2P model were games like LOTRO, and EQ2, and they did after being on a subscription model for 5+ years. So, your argument is bunk. F2P is something that companies use to save a failing game, or for some ultra POS that they spent almost nothing on and therefore even if they only make $5/mo per player they're still making profit because they spent all of $100k and 3 months "developing" the game.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You are absolutely right, people dont seem to understand the difference betwine a F2P game and a free game.
Thank you, that was kinna what I was getting at.
Typical individual from Minsk, incapable of reading a map.
Not a problem though. I will provide you with your first geography lesson:
The Netherlands, Lord.Bachus' listed home, is not a part of the United States.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Even four grand a year isn't bad at all! thats pretty good considering the gravity of your hobby! Might take that up myself haha
My old hobby ran me 15,000 and basicly 200-250 a day on weekends ( Some weekends ) was on a professional paintball team so we had all our own gear that we special ordered, played well tried to get a sponsor, but ditched that because it was getting alittle too costly, hell even my wife gets her hair done 75-80 bucks plus nails 65 bucks every month ( Is that a hobby ? haha ) but yet I have no issues even spending 50+ a month for good entertainment, I won't even TOUCH F2P stuff because I find alot of those games crap ( GW2 is not crap )but the majority of them are, thats why I like P2P games, because I know what I am getting and if it's not good meh I'm out 15 bucks and the cost of the game itself? Well I was gonna buy it anyways hahha :P
The reason gamers aren't as opposed to f2p as they once were is because the issue that comes from f2p's has been incorperated into pay to plays anyways. Most pay to plays have ever increasingly important cash shops.
You are also wrong on what the average f2p player spends. Most do not actually pay much of anything, most f2p games are suppoerted by a small percentage of it's player base that spend accessively. These same players are the types that would and do buy over priced mounts and such from games like WoW.
I'm glad you are refraining from attacks because you seem to not know much about whats been going on lol. I do not know if this is from willful ignorance or from plain stupidity though...........
I don't see myself making it past the first month. Did 2 out of 9 zones so figure 2 weeks to do the story content. Play with some builds and complete decks and some pvp.
Currently there is nothing about this game that entices me to stay past the first month. I imagine in the UK that is even more true.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Really? Just those two? How about DCUO, CO, STO, AoC, AO and DDO. EVE Online, while still maintaining a paid subscription, allows for purchase of gametime with in-game currency.
You are absolutely right though, LOTRO and EQ2 were subscription games and still are, they adopted a F2P model when it became obvious that they were losing subscriptions because the $15 a month was not a very good value for the product or service.
The money still is coming from someones pockets. And f2p games are no different, when they stop generating enough money, their content development slows downs and eventually stops till the game gets shutted down.
Keep in mind either you are the customer and the money is coming from you and/or others like you or YOU are the product, this about this for a bit.
Seems to me he is spot on, and what facts do you have or you can produce that justify the highlighted area?F2P market makes alot more money because of the items in cash shops, example, if a game is F2P meaning you can log in and play without buying the game or paying a subscription to the game then how the hell does the company of said game keep the servers up and running?Maybe they have other projects? True and just feed on that, but having played almost every mmo out there I can tell from what you know is actualy very little about how these markets work.
I remember one article in PC gamer mag that they mentioned this F2P Vs P2P and how much money they both bring in, in turn the F2P games make a killing because people believe that if it says " FREE" they'll jump all over it because they think they are getting a good deal, or just can't afford to buy the game.
just keep in mind that these companies exists for one purpose, to make money it's as simple as that, and if they can make more money on a product that they have, they'll do it, they don't give a shit about you, damn man all they want is your cash , and still the cheapest way to enjoy ( and the only true way ) a MMORPG is to pay a 15 buck a month fee, and I for one am more then happy to pay that.
DCUO - Launch Jan. 2011 - F2P Nov. 2011 50mil to develop......
Age of Conan - Launch May 2008 - F2P June 2011 around 40mil to develop......
As a matter of fact lets make this list shorter considering how many games I will have to find info on with so many making the f2p conversion...........
Why don't you list AAA games that still require a monthly fee considering that the vast majority have actually been converted over to free to play already or at least some version of f2p lol.
DCUO was circling the drain,CO was, STO.. definately was. DDO was. Im not 100% sure about eve but its a safe bet it was circling the drain. All of the mmo's you listed did convert to safe the game.
He can seem spot on but............. yeah reality and all that.
If you actually look into the issue numerous studies have been done on the matter. The fact of the matter is that most f2p gamers don't pay much if any. 90% of the revenue comes from a small percentage of dedicated players.
You don't have to believe me, I really don't care lol. He made some pretty false statements and then had the gaul to say he was refraining from insulting anyone so I simply corrected him.
My preffered meathod is B2P ala GW2 :P
But you are free to play what ever p2p with cash shop game you wish and be as happy as you want to be with that decision.
This! This right here explains it perfectly. Many wish a game to be F2P, so they can pay at low to no cost. The understanding is Mr. Moneybags will pay for them and they can get a free ride to enjoy the content. Most converted F2P gate content or restrict access and have you buy tiers of content. AoC another Funcom game is a great example of this.
This business model, while bringing in revenue only encourages players to NOT play at a level playing field. In games like LOL where tournaments rule, balance is more refined. MMORPGs are not MOBAs though and content is more important than balance. This leads to issues with PvP and PvE. I do see TSW in the future going F2P for the first zone or something like that, but I do not see them making the whole game F2P for a long time.
The subscription cost puts severe limits on what one can offer in the Cash Shop or the community will get upset really quick. Funcom knows this and already got a taste of it from the Gear Management fiasco. Which btw, Closed Beta testers know that Gear Management unlocks were already available through faction rank. I still don't like being able to buy a Gear Management slot through the cash shop, but you can get it in game too. If TSW was only F2P, I could see that and much more being offered in the store.
I wouldn't be too hard on the 'same players are the types that would and do buy over priced mounts and such from games like WoW.' Those players willing to ACTUALLY spend money on that stuff is what even makes F2P a viable business model for some companies. I wouldn't spend that amount of cash myself on mounts, but if someone else chooses to do so - that's their choice.
Edit - back on topic. The price is too much for our UK friends. The fact that GW2 is doing a similar thing with their box pricing is a disturbing trend.
I'm glad i didn't enjoy the closed beta so i don't have to pay so much every month.
Oh, you can also add Aion to that list.
The games were circling the drain because the product they offered did not warrant the subscription fee. Notice, however, that the games which adopted the F2P model are almost all AAA MMO that has been released in the past 4 years. All of them started as subscription games and adopted a F2P model when they realized that they were not making enough. Interestingly enough, most of those games are now thriving.
It's a prime example of why subscription is an outdated model.
Edit: to clarify a bit, I am not a supporter of F2P. I don't mind it if it's uninvasive, like what Sony is planning to do with Planetside 2. However, I do think that GW1 and GW2's B2P model with an uninvasive cash shop is the future of this genre.
Don't get me wrong, I am also waiting on GW2 :P
But in reality yes alot of the revenue is coming from people who are paying a monthly sub fee, I know because I used to work for a company that used a Subscription model for a certain product ( I can't say :P ) and let me tell you something,you might have say what 100,000 people paying 15 a month thats 1.5 m a month on a subscription based game and 18m yearly which is alot of money to begin with, also thats not taking into effect taxes and your overhead , maintenance , you get the drift, but however, if you take that same number and messure it to a cash shop game IE F2PModel, that game will make more money, hence why most game companies now are jumping on the bandwagon so to speak, because they see dollar signs and a massive increase in revenue so yeah shit if I had a game I would make it a hybrid F2P or P2P you choose, I hope that some of these companies will do that later on a NEW release title.
But GW1 and GW2 are not the same games. We haven't seen their business model put to the test in a MMORPG environment. Especially not when 3 million + people expected to buy it at launch and not with a larger company owning them with significantly higher overhead.
Regardless this isn't about GW2. Aion is the second largest MMORPG in the world. It failed in the west because of the culture gap between playstyles. DDO was actually successful when it went F2P. Many questioned why Turbine would convert its two properties, but the answer was clear. They needed new blood to get injected into the game.
EVE is a very successful game and has grown in subscriptions every year. I have no idea where anyone could think that game was actually faltering.
TSW will be wise to do what Trion Worlds has done. Minor to Medium size updates every month or so and make the first zone F2P with content unlocks that non subscribers can buy into like they have for Conan.