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Do we even want mmorpg anymore

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  • yewsefyewsef KuwaitPosts: 335Member
    Originally posted by xDayx

                Personally I think there is room for everyone in the market. There are different kinds of people such as:

    -People who like themeparks and do some RP

    -People who like themeparks and dont play a role.

    -People who like sandboxes and RP

    -People who like sandboxes and dont play a role.

     

    The only absurdity to this thread is the OP acting like he is speaking for everyone. But I do hold the opinion that themeparks have turned into something which isnt condusive to playing a role playing game (even though I have seen heavy roleplayers even in the biggest themeparks).     

     

    Therempark... Sandbox.... This is STUPID.

    I don't want a Themepark or a Sandbox. I want a decent game.

     

    Themepark means restriction and Sandbox means complete freedom. These are very VAGUE and OPEN terms. While definetly don't want to play a "Themepark" I still am not sure if I want to play a Sandbox if the Sandbox game suck.

     

    Forget about THEMEPARK and SANDBOX. ERASE it from your brain.

    Create a WORLD with important elements, mechanics, feature that make the player feels they are in the world without it being TOO EMPTY (Too Sandboxy) or TOO restrictive (Quest Hubs, Themeparkish) and eliminate ANY retarded "Convenient" invention done by retarded game designers that when combined destroys what an MMROPG is all about (Auction Houses, Too Many Instances, Kill 10 Foozles, Items dropping like candy, and the list is just too long).

     

    I don't give a damn if you say Sandbox or Themepark. The MMORPG has too many variables and if too many of them were what I think a retarded game design decision; then the game would suck (for me).

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by yewsef

     

    If I ask you what an MMORPG is? and you answer me by saying "A game like World of Warcraft or Star Wars: The Old Republic" I will tell you "Oh, Then I don't like MMORPGs."

     

     

    So? I don't know about TOR. But clearly many like WOW.

    It is not required for everyone to like a game.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by BioNut
    To be honest I just want Multiplayer Online Rpgs, but not like we have now.More like GW1 or even the BioWare NeverWinter games.  If ESO was skyrim, but coop I would be in heaven.Hell, Games like DayZ are more interesting to me because they have low pop counts on servers.  I want to play with a few other people, not 1000s.  I guess I just want to feel isolated but have the chance of running into other humans or playing with friends. If there were more games like that I would likely never play MMORPGs.

    I can agree with these sentiments myself. It's not that I don't want to play any MMORPG, but some of the games being made as MMORPG seem like they would work better as single player games with the option for multi-player co-op.

    Actually, if I'm being honest, I'd like to see some of these games with all of the following options available; single player, player run personal server, multi-player co-op, and developer run massively multi-player.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    True, people don't want "an empty world they are tasked with filling", at least not most people.  However, I think most people do not want a script handed to them that they are compelled to follow.  Don't know about you, but the main theme in medieval fantasy to me is freedom; freedom to wander and explore, and to choose ones own adventuring paths.

    I think the Themepark vs Sandbox argument is truly off base and that the real debate is around Linear (Storyline) vs Free Range.

    Yeah, definitely. 

    Although I don't think players object too strongly to the magnitude of linearity present in something like WOW (which isn't anywhere near as linear as players paint it.)  They enjoy freedom, of course, but if the linear questlines are high quality players can look past their freedom being slightly reduced.

    For me there's no "main theme" to medieval fantasy.  I can enjoy a constrained very high quality experience just as well as I can enjoy a flat-but-free experience.  An example of linear-but-quality being Diablo 3, whereas flat-but-free would be more like Skyrim.  For me the downsides of broader game designs like Skyrim are very apparent (I hated the lack of depth behind nearly every game system in Skyrim, and it only survived because the world was beautiful to explore and because there were enough different shallow game systems to explore to hold my interest for a while.)

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
     

    Yeah, definitely. 

    Although I don't think players object too strongly to the magnitude of linearity present in something like WOW (which isn't anywhere near as linear as players paint it.)  They enjoy freedom, of course, but if the linear questlines are high quality players can look past their freedom being slightly reduced.

    For me there's no "main theme" to medieval fantasy.  I can enjoy a constrained very high quality experience just as well as I can enjoy a flat-but-free experience.  An example of linear-but-quality being Diablo 3, whereas flat-but-free would be more like Skyrim.  For me the downsides of broader game designs like Skyrim are very apparent (I hated the lack of depth behind nearly every game system in Skyrim, and it only survived because the world was beautiful to explore and because there were enough different shallow game systems to explore to hold my interest for a while.)

    I think it is about choices. In WOW, while there are many linear parts, you do have choices to quest, LFD, pvp, collect pets and what-not.

    To some extend, you have some (not as many) choices in D3 too .. like where to farm, and also in playing alts. Obviously the quality helps a lot. However, i don't see D3 to last as long as WOW. It would be amazing if it last for a few months.

    Personally i agree with you on SKYRIM. The combat system is not very fun. D3 does combat 100x better than Skyrim. That is why i never finish it.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by lizardbones


    I can agree with these sentiments myself. It's not that I don't want to play any MMORPG, but some of the games being made as MMORPG seem like they would work better as single player games with the option for multi-player co-op.

    Actually, if I'm being honest, I'd like to see some of these games with all of the following options available; single player, player run personal server, multi-player co-op, and developer run massively multi-player.

     

    I'm actually of the mind that most people would actually like to play a COORPG rather than a MMORPG. The games would be better for it too. You could have physics, projectile and bodyblocking, hitboxes and aiming, dodging, really profound map elements like downing entire buildings and forests (BF style), action combat...

    You can do all this when you don't need to think about handling potentially hundreds of players in the same area.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Asuran24

    I would say that the playerbase at large outside of mmorpg.com wants a rpg game in the spirit of rpg games like the diablos, final fantasy series, or other such heavy story use, while also having a aqquisition or achievement side line, compared to a more table top rpg set up that would be how mmos were prior to the influx of players. That is how many players play mmos now as a competition or collection game that like console rpgs are largely. Compare story heavy an also rigid of progression console rpgs havve largely to mmorpgs now, and it really just looks like they dropped a console rpg into the older mmorpg model setup really an slowly removed what really to the playerbase playing was worthles filler.

    Yeah basically.  People want a game with gameplay, not an empty world they're tasked with filling.

    Although your "console RPG" tangent seems wrong, considering PC RPGs over the years have been the exact same way.  Games like Ultima, Eye of the Beholder, Gold Box AD&D, Sword of Fargoal, and many others didn't exactly involve non-rigid progression systems which required a lot of thought.

    Well the fact that many console games are at their zinith for design as the technology really is not able to give much more to them yet, but pc rpgs still have a huge area they can expand into. The issue is more the fact that rpgs on both pc an consoles held back by one side's limitations (mostly console), yet many pc only rpgs broke away from the rigid progression that is a hallmark of console rpgs.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,758Member Uncommon

         I think alot of us would love a good MMORPG.....The problem has been that they're all copying WOW or putting out single player MMOs and we aren't getting much that is original anymore....... TSW is about the most original we are going to get for awhile, but it too feels like a single player story driven game......What alot of us want is a world we can explore and actually role play with others.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by lizardbones I can agree with these sentiments myself. It's not that I don't want to play any MMORPG, but some of the games being made as MMORPG seem like they would work better as single player games with the option for multi-player co-op. Actually, if I'm being honest, I'd like to see some of these games with all of the following options available; single player, player run personal server, multi-player co-op, and developer run massively multi-player.  
    I'm actually of the mind that most people would actually like to play a COORPG rather than a MMORPG. The games would be better for it too. You could have physics, projectile and bodyblocking, hitboxes and aiming, dodging, really profound map elements like downing entire buildings and forests (BF style), action combat...

    You can do all this when you don't need to think about handling potentially hundreds of players in the same area.




    Well, I suppose NeverWinter will sort of be a test of this. Cryptic had to relabel the game an MMO when Perfect World took over, but it seemed a lot more like a coorpg before then.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Originally posted by lizardbones I can agree with these sentiments myself. It's not that I don't want to play any MMORPG, but some of the games being made as MMORPG seem like they would work better as single player games with the option for multi-player co-op. Actually, if I'm being honest, I'd like to see some of these games with all of the following options available; single player, player run personal server, multi-player co-op, and developer run massively multi-player.  
    I'm actually of the mind that most people would actually like to play a COORPG rather than a MMORPG. The games would be better for it too. You could have physics, projectile and bodyblocking, hitboxes and aiming, dodging, really profound map elements like downing entire buildings and forests (BF style), action combat...

     

    You can do all this when you don't need to think about handling potentially hundreds of players in the same area.



    Well, I suppose NeverWinter will sort of be a test of this. Cryptic had to relabel the game an MMO when Perfect World took over, but it seemed a lot more like a coorpg before then.

     

    Cryptic, 4th edition ruleset, F2P... the game has to be f***king amazing to avoid crucifiction by the fans.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • AntharaAnthara CascaisPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by x5100

    People might look at me funny and stuff but I honestly think what we need is a new fantasy setting and such... Most of the modern day fantasies are rip-off tolkein's universe. A lot of people are porbably going to disagree with what I'm saying but like it or not, he was the father of the modern day fantasy setting. I think until someone puts out a new universe that's equally large and fantastic as his, we aren't going to get any good MMOs cause they dont have anything fresh to inspire their storylines, art designs and such. I'll be honest and say I couldn't care less about combat mechanics and such. Kingdoms of Amalur had amazing combat but it wasn't very good cause it lacked immersion and that's what modern day mmos seem to lack. Not cause they're poorly written(ok yea some are pretty shit), but the ideas grown kinda stale... to me at least. If an MMO is immersive enough I couldn't care less for combat or the quest hub or whatever. Guess what I'm saying is unless we find a new universive that's immersive enough, no MMO will hold the charm like older MMOs used. Even GW2 is kinda eh to me...

    Exactly my thoughts...

    For example SWTOR that used a diferent fantasy. But had Star Wars and we all know how future ends from the movies and wikis.

    And the complete lack of immersion on its world. Since no weather, no night and day, creatures just standing in their places. I believe I didnt even ear a waterfall noise while standing right next to it.

    Even WoW (ye, that boring old game) gave me an awsome moments from simple stuff like music and lights. Will never forget when I was walking around Durotar with a chill ambiance music, and then I enter Orgrimmar for the first time (no loading screens) and the sound of  drums invading my head. It was epic for me at the time.

    Tbh, I want a western MMO sandbox with a massive world (no loadings screens), people building citys, saloons, breeding horses, wild life (with wolves  actually hunting other creatures etc, bandits, indians, politics, civil war, conquest. Selling goods, transporting them around big distances. No lvls, open dungeons. Just shoot  to the legs if the enemy is running, shoot to the head and permakill the enemy and get a perma nasty bounty on you head. Or just be hanged in the nearest town while other players get drunk with whiskey  made by some player, while they watch the new permadead guy in the ropes.

    oh my. I should go sleep.

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by hercules
    Seriously let's look at the word massively multimrole playing game. We really do not care about role playing anymore.

    How about not  applying your personal feelings to every other MMORPG player in the world...

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