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Gems for gold and real money

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  • SoandsosoSoandsoso Richmond Hill, ONPosts: 533Member

    Hmm, how long before P2W items in store. Ya there is no sub but they will make alot more from people buying their ingame currency. Cant blame them though, why should a gold farming company reap the rewards of their efforts.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    please tell me what advantages you buy from shop??? 

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

    so where are the advantages against other players?

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Soandsoso

    Hmm, how long before P2W items in store. Ya there is no sub but they will make alot more from people buying their ingame currency. Cant blame them though, why should a gold farming company reap the rewards of their efforts.

    There's really no guarantee that there won't be P2W items in the future (I don't consider anything that's there right now as P2W, mainly because of the way PvE and PvP are separated).

    Personally, however, I don't think they'll add any P2W items in the future, first because they know it's something their player base feels strongly about and that they're playing a balance game of convenienve Vs. too many advantages in the gem store. They don't have subs but they do have expansions they want to sell in the future, and it's in their best interests not to drive the players away for them to sell.

    Second because of past experience with the company. Since we can't predict the future all we can do is look at how a company has behaved in the past. GW1 has had a cash shop for a long time already, and there's only one item I could consider semi P2W, and it's the unlocking of skills. However that was added to the cash shop when the game was already few years old, meant as a way to allow newcomers to compete on the same level than people that have been playing for years and that had unlocked all their skills long time ago while still keeping the game open for those that want to unlock them the old fashioned way.

    Even then unlocking skills isn't all that big of a thing for the game. The skills are unlocked only for PvP characters, can't be used for PvE unless you get them the old fashioned way, and without unlocking them you can even get a full set without PvP at all. By using the Zaishen Challenges (basically elimination battlegrounds with AI allies and opponents) you can get 2000 faction points a day in under 30 minutes. A full hotbar would be 9 skills (1000 each, 9000 total) and one elite skill (3000), which would need 12000 faction points to buy (assuming you're not using any of the default unlocked skills), so you could get a full one in 6 days assuming you only do the challenges (zaishen elite challenges can get you 6000 points a day and can be done in under an hour, regular PvP matches give more points and have no limit to how many points you can get).

    That was for GW1. Such an item wouldn't make sense in GW2, since all skills are unlocked for sPvP anyway, the game so far seems to be designed to be even more P2W items resistant than GW1 was.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • kostoslavkostoslav somborPosts: 459Member
    As long as its gw2 its ok!
  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    please tell me what advantages you buy from shop??? 

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

    so where are the advantages against other players?

    No idea I just posted what you can get from the Gem Store so anyone can see it

    I can't see anything gamebreaking in there to be honest :)

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa

    please tell me what advantages you buy from shop??? 

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

    so where are the advantages against other players?

    No idea I just posted what you can get from the Gem Store so anyone can see it

    I can't see anything gamebreaking in there to be honest :)

    The top hat is an obvious advantage!!! How can you attack a distinguished gentleman wearing one??? They'll be game breaking for sure unless they're nerfed!!!.. :)

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • MattVidMattVid Terre Haute, INPosts: 399Member

    It is funny to see people complain about this stuff.

    So, gold is going to be sold for real cash in game anyways (RMT traders/botters), and people think it is bad to implement a system where ArenaNet can get the proceeds while still offering the same service that RMT comapnies would offer? Gold selling and buying is ALWAYS there, you might as well design a system to help combat it.

    When it comes down to it, basically every game is "pay to win", as you can buy gold from 3rd party sites. Considering gear doesn't make a huge, huge difference in this game, and that the gem store doesn't really offer anyhting besides cosmetic and convenience items ... I fail to see how it is "pay to win".

    Overall, some people just suck, or are bad at games, and they like to blame people stomping their faces into the ground that they are cheating somehow. It is even more humorous when people are whining about this stuff, when the competitive PvP is everyone at level 80 with the same access to gear ... It is 100% skill/knowledge based.

    This model has worked in other games, and I don't see an issue with it.

  • Mors-SubitaMors-Subita montreal, QCPosts: 500Member
    Originally posted by Soandsoso

    Hmm, how long before P2W items in store. Ya there is no sub but they will make alot more from people buying their ingame currency. Cant blame them though, why should a gold farming company reap the rewards of their efforts.

    How long before p2w? Well, the first GW is 8 years old now, and their cash shop still has no P2W in it... So I would say at least 8 years...

    image

  • ChillwolfChillwolf West End, NCPosts: 33Member

    Karma and glory are the "money" that will make you the most powerful, you cannot buy any of them with gems or cash.  There are many forms of currency in GW2 the gem/cash loop is very closed and segregated from the items that have actual real impact on other players in both pvp and pve. 

    http://i.imgur.com/RCXX8.jpg   that pretty much explains it.  Why are we still having this conversation it has been beat to death already. 

     

  • ValkaernValkaern OxfordPosts: 512Member

    If there was any chance of someone buying an advantage that actually impacted me I wouldn't be interested. The systems been explained up and down dispelling any misconceptions and concerns.

    People still concerned about this before there's anything that's even slightly detrimental to game balance present are misinformed or sensationalizing the innocuous.

    If what's available in the shop is upsetting to you, I wouldn't blame you for staying away, but I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice. No matter how you spin it, there's simply no way to buy any real advantage over another player with real cash.

    I personally invite anyone interested to buy anything they like from the gem shop this wednesday then meet me in our own sPvP map for some duels. You'd better win them all if it truly is pay to win.

    We all know that's not the case though or there would have been a huge backlash months ago. 

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    There is only one problem with leveling to 80 only with crafting (and buying mats with rl money). There is no endgame. Therefore getting to 80 fast by any means necessary means absolutely nothing. That's why even the xp boosters aren't P2W. Unless you consider "win" getting to 80 as fast as possible in a game without an endgame.

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by seridan
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    There is only one problem with leveling to 80 only with crafting (and buying mats with rl money). There is no endgame. Therefore getting to 80 fast by any means necessary means absolutely nothing. That's why even the xp boosters aren't P2W. Unless you consider "win" getting to 80 as fast as possible in a game without an endgame.

     IMO, P2W never means anything.  People who want to pay money to "win" at any MMORPG kind of miss the point.  The point of an MMORPG is the journey, if you pay to win, you are paying to skip that journey.  This is stupid.  It's like paying to get max level, then realizing there is nothing to do and saying

    "Okay, looks like I'm done, that game sucked!"

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • MexorillaMexorilla Las Vegas, NVPosts: 313Member

    yes,  it's buying gold.  i thought we went over this in March.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    and how you reach lvl80 quick  and without play is a good thing???? isnt advantage is a big disadvantage.

    so for you is P2W because you reach lvl80? so for you "win" is reach lvl80?

    P2W for me is something i can buy that give me a real advantage against other players. gold? gold isnt even very important on this MMORPG compared with others, because you cant buy that amazing armour/weapon that will kill everyone easy. 

  • korat102korat102 Milton KeynesPosts: 313Member
    Originally posted by Mexorilla

    yes,  it's buying gold.  i thought we went over this in March.

    You can expect to see new threads raised about this every few days up to release, then for a few months, if not years, after that. It's all depressingly familiar as well as pointless but what can you do?

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    and how you reach lvl80 quick  and without play is a good thing???? isnt advantage is a big disadvantage.

    so for you is P2W because you reach lvl80? so for you "win" is reach lvl80?

    P2W for me is something i can buy that give me a real advantage against other players. gold? gold isnt even very important on this MMORPG compared with others, because you cant buy that amazing armour/weapon that will kill everyone easy. 

     I never said I thought buying your way to level 80 was a good idea...I am vehemently against P2W in all its incarnations.  I just said it is possible to buy your way to level 80, and then you could even buy your way to really good gear.

    So essentially, you can "buy" a max-level character with powerful gear.  Isn't this what most people would consider P2W?

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Creslin321. ...

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    ...

    And the only advantage you'd get doing this is to have a number 80 next to your name and your tradeskills maxed up (that still would take time even with the cash shop). You wouldn't have any skills because without going out to the world you can't get the skill points to unlock them. In PvE you don't have any advantage over a regular low level player in lower level area because while you do have the skill slots unlocked you'd now need to get the skill points to buy them, and you need to go and start unlocking your weapon skills as well. Your level 80 isn't stronger than the people playing at their level because he's downleveled for the area he's in and you'd actually be severely gimped in higher level areas because you wouldn't have the skills and weapon skills unlocked. On WvW you'd have no advantage over a level 2 player that also has no skills unlocked because he'll be upgraded to level 80, and on sPvP even less because everyone gets all skills unlocked.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by p_c_sousa
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    and how you reach lvl80 quick  and without play is a good thing???? isnt advantage is a big disadvantage.

    so for you is P2W because you reach lvl80? so for you "win" is reach lvl80?

    P2W for me is something i can buy that give me a real advantage against other players. gold? gold isnt even very important on this MMORPG compared with others, because you cant buy that amazing armour/weapon that will kill everyone easy. 

     I never said I thought buying your way to level 80 was a good idea...I am vehemently against P2W in all its incarnations.  I just said it is possible to buy your way to level 80, and then you could even buy your way to really good gear.

    So essentially, you can "buy" a max-level character with powerful gear.  Isn't this what most people would consider P2W?

    for me no, because you will not get any advantage against other lvl80 player .  reach quick lvl80 and craft powerfull armour anyone can do that

  • WolvardsWolvards grants pass, ORPosts: 650Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    Good argument on the crafting thing, but now let me ask you this...

    Where are your skills?

    You have 0 skill points, so you still have 0 skills. You have no weapon traits unlocked, you have 80 levels and traits over a level 0, but no skills, no abilities. 

    You still  have to get out there and get thsoe skill points. If you have 0 weapon skills and 0 abilities, you won't be going to the level 80 zone and getting skills, you will get steam rolled by any mob out there. Heck you couldn't even do the levle 20 ones,you'd be stuck trying to get the starter zone skill points.

    So while your point IS valid. I dare you to P2W level craft to 80, then instantaneously go to WvW. You might have cool armor, and some damn good traits. But you still have no 2-5 and 7-10 uses.

    You are still behind.

    The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nitth

     


    Originally posted by Psym0n
      5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only? Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items. 

     

    I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold? 

    I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.

    This is the article that features this topic:

    http://www.rpgamer.com/games/guildwars/guildwars2/guildwars2BWE2interview.html

    What is your opinion on this?

     

    Cheers


     

    It worked for eve online, why cant it work for this game?

    I never  liked the idea of gold buying, but you are right it seems to have worked for EVE.

     

    EVE is the exception to the rule more times than not though concerning a lot of things. We'll see how it goes in GW2.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by Wolvards
    Originally posted by Creslin321

    Yep, it more or less is the same as buying gold.  Folks can argue that the player economy won't be corrupted because you are buying gold from other players, and it is not just being "created," and this may be true.

    But the reality is that from YOUR, the player's, perspective, you are spending real money and getting gold.  So basically, GW2, the PvE part of it and partially WvW, is a bit P2W. 

    And if you don't think it is a bit P2W...consider this.  You can literally spend money to get max level without ever leaving your main city.  How is this possible you ask?  Simple.  We know that you can get to level 80 from crafting alone.  You simply get gold with real money, and then buy a crap ton of gathering materials for the AH and have at it.  If what we have heard is correct, you should be able to just craft your way to level 80 with 0 time spent outside of the city.

    All that said, while I'm not happy with the buying gold thing, I don't think it will ruin GW2.  I think that it will make gear and crafting more trivial though, and I can't imagine the economy will be all that exciting since it is essentially a huge item shop with optional gold purchases.  But other than that, the game will be fine.  Structured PvP will be 100% unaffected by gen purchases, and hopefully WvW won't be affected too much.

    In the end, I would have rather paid a sub...but I'm willing to deal with the gold buying.

     

    Good argument on the crafting thing, but now let me ask you this...

    Where are your skills?

    You have 0 skill points, so you still have 0 skills. You have no weapon traits unlocked, you have 80 levels and traits over a level 0, but no skills, no abilities. 

    You still  have to get out there and get thsoe skill points. If you have 0 weapon skills and 0 abilities, you won't be going to the level 80 zone and getting skills, you will get steam rolled by any mob out there. Heck you couldn't even do the levle 20 ones,you'd be stuck trying to get the starter zone skill points.

    So while your point IS valid. I dare you to P2W level craft to 80, then instantaneously go to WvW. You might have cool armor, and some damn good traits. But you still have no 2-5 and 7-10 uses.

    You are still behind.

    yap. as i say isnt an advantage, is a BIG DISADVANTAGE to lvl up that way. dont see why someone want to do that, maybe just to be the first lvl80 on server (like if anyone care about that...)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    What would a max level toon with "powerful" gear really accomplish though?

    PvE - content scales in level (up down) and difficulty based on # of players and there are no raids or anything for competitive PvE...

    WvW - you may have an advantage 1vs1 but how often do you find 1v1 in OWPVP? Never?

    sPvP - gear/level don't matter as all is equalized.

    Go ahead, give Anet your $ for no real advantage lol thanks for supporting the game!

  • DerpybirdDerpybird Boston, MAPosts: 991Member

    Has anyone checked the DPS of the cannon that comes with the pirate costume?

    Is there theorycrafting supporting the idea that certain dyes increase your damage output while others improve your mitigation but we don't yet know which ones so we need to collect them all?

    What if certain boss fights actually require you turn into a chair for 15 minutes as part of the fight dynamics, and without these potions from the lockboxes you cannot win?

    Does the mini Logan Thackeray actually cast heals on you while you do dynamic events?

    Maybe ANet is more nefarious than you all believe?

    "Loading screens" are not "instances".
    Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by Derpybird

    Has anyone checked the DPS of the cannon that comes with the pirate costume?

    Is there theorycrafting supporting the idea that certain dyes increase your damage output while others improve your mitigation but we don't yet know which ones so we need to collect them all?

    What if certain boss fights actually require you turn into a chair for 15 minutes as part of the fight dynamics, and without these potions from the lockboxes you cannot win?

    Does the mini Logan Thackeray actually cast heals on you while you do dynamic events?

    Maybe ANet is more nefarious than you all believe?

    xDDD

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