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No starter pistol? What do you think?

2

Comments

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,019Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Naral

    Well, I have been playing since launch of the pistoless era now, and it is a pain in the ass. Pretty much have to start on an almost unpopulated server. Even on servers with three people, I have found the other two people to be coast camping. 

    I don't want an easy life, but I do want to be able to fight back. No melee--and I appreciate that it is hard to add--makes you a sitting duck without a starter pistol, and it is not like that makarov was OP or anything. Without *some* way to fight either players or zombies, even in a limited capacity, this game just got a lot rougher for the new characters.

    Have a feeling they may be looking in to adding melee, they tweeted today that people that have axes are going to have a use for them and it's not chopping wood.

     

    I haven't tried the gunless era yet, I will install the latest patch tonight and hope that I die some time soon and get to try starting with a flashlight

    image
  • BrenelaelBrenelael MainePosts: 3,797Member Uncommon

    The sad truth of the matter is that the Bandit style of player is pretty much setting the direction this mod is heading in at the moment. These are all of the die hard players that are flooding the main forum right now making suggestions to make life for a survivor 10 times harder while making it 10 times easier for themselves. They also jump all over anyone who makes a pro survivor sugestion with crap like, "Go back to COD ya pansy!" and other equally well thought out replies. They like to come off like they are all die hard and want the "hard life" but the truth of the matter is I've tried the bandit approach to the game and it's a cake walk.

     

    You never even have to go into a town ever or deal with any zombies once you have any sort of rifle. You just sit outside of any larger town, wait for someone to come out, drop them without them even seeing you and then help yourself to all of the loot they just collected. Don't let these players fool you into thinking they are the 'Hardcores' as every time they get their way their lives become easier and easier.

     

    Since version 1.7 and the removal of the Bandit Skins (Something they whined about as being "unfair") this game has become a Bandit's paradise and forced a lot of good players to become Bandits themselves to survive. If Rocket keeps listening to these 'Die Hards' I fear this Mod will die off as anyone who wants to be a good or neutral player will either have to become a Bandit themselves or get frustrated and leave. The Mod is very one-sided at the moment giving a huge advantage to the Deathmatch kiddies(Bandits).

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,165Member Uncommon

    Thats the problem with any sanbox style game, asshole players are usually the death of it. Communities turn on each other and it just becomes a giant mess.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Olmsted Falls, OHPosts: 2,471Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    The sad truth of the matter is that the Bandit style of player is pretty much setting the direction this mod is heading in at the moment. These are all of the die hard players that are flooding the main forum right now making suggestions to make life for a survivor 10 times harder while making it 10 times easier for themselves. They also jump all over anyone who makes a pro survivor sugestion with crap like, "Go back to COD ya pansy!" and other equally well thought out replies. They like to come off like they are all die hard and want the "hard life" but the truth of the matter is I've tried the bandit approach to the game and it's a cake walk.

     

    You never even have to go into a town ever or deal with any zombies once you have any sort of rifle. You just sit outside of any larger town, wait for someone to come out, drop them without them even seeing you and then help yourself to all of the loot they just collected. Don't let these players fool you into thinking they are the 'Hardcores' as every time they get their way their lives become easier and easier.

     

    Since version 1.7 and the removal of the Bandit Skins (Something they whined about as being "unfair") this game has become a Bandit's paradise and forced a lot of good players to become Bandits themselves to survive. If Rocket keeps listening to these 'Die Hards' I fear this Mod will die off as anyone who wants to be a good or neutral player will either have to become a Bandit themselves or get frustrated and leave. The Mod is very one-sided at the moment giving a huge advantage to the Deathmatch kiddies(Bandits).

     

    Bren

    I voiced my opinions on the forums that bandit skins should have never been removed.  There should be ways to gain back humanity if you are forced to kill someone who isn't a bandit in self defense or because the situation was so dire that you had to.  In addition, it';s now harder to find food and water.  They added melee weapons, but don't spawn you with one.  Made zombies super cracked out uber-sensitive zombies, and don't spawn you with food.

     

    They really just smashed the entire appeal of the game and what made it a popular mod to begin with.  New players watched all the videos of great times.  Now they log in and see constant dying and the only real way of survival is to exploit game system flaws inside houses.  

     

    New patch is coming, I hope that fixes some things.  Most of those changes were in favor of bandits.  Something went wrong.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael MainePosts: 3,797Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DAS1337
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    The sad truth of the matter is that the Bandit style of player is pretty much setting the direction this mod is heading in at the moment. These are all of the die hard players that are flooding the main forum right now making suggestions to make life for a survivor 10 times harder while making it 10 times easier for themselves. They also jump all over anyone who makes a pro survivor sugestion with crap like, "Go back to COD ya pansy!" and other equally well thought out replies. They like to come off like they are all die hard and want the "hard life" but the truth of the matter is I've tried the bandit approach to the game and it's a cake walk.

     

    You never even have to go into a town ever or deal with any zombies once you have any sort of rifle. You just sit outside of any larger town, wait for someone to come out, drop them without them even seeing you and then help yourself to all of the loot they just collected. Don't let these players fool you into thinking they are the 'Hardcores' as every time they get their way their lives become easier and easier.

     

    Since version 1.7 and the removal of the Bandit Skins (Something they whined about as being "unfair") this game has become a Bandit's paradise and forced a lot of good players to become Bandits themselves to survive. If Rocket keeps listening to these 'Die Hards' I fear this Mod will die off as anyone who wants to be a good or neutral player will either have to become a Bandit themselves or get frustrated and leave. The Mod is very one-sided at the moment giving a huge advantage to the Deathmatch kiddies(Bandits).

     

    Bren

    I voiced my opinions on the forums that bandit skins should have never been removed.  There should be ways to gain back humanity if you are forced to kill someone who isn't a bandit in self defense or because the situation was so dire that you had to.  In addition, it';s now harder to find food and water.  They added melee weapons, but don't spawn you with one.  Made zombies super cracked out uber-sensitive zombies, and don't spawn you with food.

     

    They really just smashed the entire appeal of the game and what made it a popular mod to begin with.  New players watched all the videos of great times.  Now they log in and see constant dying and the only real way of survival is to exploit game system flaws inside houses.  

     

    New patch is coming, I hope that fixes some things.  Most of those changes were in favor of bandits.  Something went wrong.

    Yeah the good news is after watching the TotalBiscuit video I just posted with Rocket as his game partner I have a lot more confidence in the direction this mod is going in. He seems to be aware of the problem and is trying to come up with ways to add more cooperation in the mod. Right now player interaction has devolved into who can shoot first and he's working on ways to fix it. Watch the video if you haven't already.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    Not liking the new changes for 2 reasons.  No starter pistol makes it to hard starting out and secondly either the loot spawns were nerfed because now its hard as hell to find a weapon.  I went through all of Cherno last night and the best weapon I could find was a m1911.  I used to find great weapons there.

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  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,019Member Uncommon

    My week old character died last night and since then I have had a really rough time starting out. First town I hit I aggro'd a zombie and was only saved by a nice friendly guy that killed it for me. He had a pistol and an axe and seemed like a god at that moment haha

    Now I have been alive for two hours, I have looted a town, balota airfield and a deer stand, all I have to show for all that is ammo for various guns, bandages, a knife, food/water. I still have not found a single weapon! Also found two barns that were completely empty. I dunno if this is just a bad run of luck or what but it's getting annoying now not having any weapon at all yet. I logged out this morning near the deer stand in the vain hope that when I log in tonight there is a weapon in it!

    Another thing for me is that I don't have a group of friends or clan/guild that play this so I rely on the game for meeting people, with only direct chat it is pretty difficult to meet anyone, i get that the point of the game is not to meet people but to sruvive but there was more a sense of the game having a community when side chat was still enabled.

    image
  • Species5021Species5021 UtrechtPosts: 44Member

    First off in reply to an earlier comment, the m1911 is probably the best pistol ingame, sound isnt hard, one body hit kills a zombie. And not finding loot in Cherno isn't very strange as half the server starts near it and takes everything they find on the way trough.

    The 1.7.1.5 patch that was just released sets the game back to a decent level, the zombies are fixed, they are harder to ignore then before 1.7.1 but you can crouch run in town without pulling entire blocks of them. Escape a zombie works great now to, run into a house and walk out the other side while being silent and the zombie horde will start looking around where you are while you give them the slip.

    I tend to agree that the loot table needs a bit of tweaking, to much ammo spawns (in weird places) without any decent guns. I spend two hours searching for slugs for my winchester and no luck, because its ammo loot table now spawns almost 99% 2rnd slugs...

    Deer stands spawn empty again and most of those have ammo anyway. The little sheds in gardens in towns suddenly spawn tires... Which sucks because you used to find some decent loot drops from them.

    The double barreled shotgun is to loud for it to be of any use except to pull zombies for miles around, does a decent job at that. And the weird two shell ammo piles that drop for it really messed up the loot table.

    Melee is decent and provides a nice silent alternative, although the crowbar is utter crap, it takes 6 swings to drop a zombie. The axe does a better job and does it in one, the trade off for this one hit silent miracle weapon is that the zombies are badly optimized and they will hit you two or sometimes even three times on the way down after you 'killed' them.

    Morphine needs an up in the loot table aswell, or maybe a farm alternative to mend a broken bone that could be temporary like a splint. The way it works now is that eventually after running trough a couple of towns a zombie somewhere will eventually brake one of your bones and you will be well... Boned.

     

    To end my rant is I have to admit that removing the starter weapon was a harsh move for beginning players but it made it hardly impossible to get by. By doing it i have started to respect and fear the common zombie once again, the playing field between bandit players and rabid zombies might actually be level now.

  • DaezAsterDaezAster new york, NYPosts: 788Member Uncommon

    They could atleast leave you the pee shooter. This game is so appealing to me but I know that loose eveything sart over death would kill my vibe after I finally got some good gear. Bit to hardcore for me... 

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Originally posted by Brenelael

    Dean "Rocket" Hall is thinking about removing the starter pistol from the game. This would make your first survival priority finding a weapon or someone with a weapon to team up with. It's an interesting idea that does have some merit but it would also add some definite cons as well. The main one being bandits/griefers having an easier time camping new players. What do you think?

     

    Bren

     

    Bad idea IMHO, people who already have guns have too much advantage and easy pickings from those who do not and trying to use melee weapons would chew through your bandages lightning quick.

    Originally posted by DAS1337
    -SNIP-

    They don't have to be slow walkers.. Just slower than crazy sprinting runners that are faster than players.  The same speed of players would be cool.  some of them are way too fast and their movement is sometimes pretty ridiculous. These are zombies after all.. I doubt they have the knowledge to bob and weave to avoid your gun shots =P

     

    I'd be fine with one clip of ammo and a melee weapon to start off with, among the few other things.

     

    I think they should really work on night time additions.  It gets so dark that it's really frustrating to play.  There should be improved incentive to playing at night as well.  There are a few things I'd like changed.  And I haven't been playing long, so some of these may already be in the game.

     

    Vastly decreased zombie aggro radius.

    Flares SHOULD attract zombies near populated areas, just walk the radius to stay safe.

    Increased visuals, it's way too dark.  Not too light to make light sources meaningless though.  Slight adjustment.

    Do not force players to replace their pistol with a flash light.  Create duct tape loot, add flashlight, tape flash light to gun.  Or, hold flash light in the other hand.  

    Doing that could attract zombies, but it could have it's own aggro radius and LOS.  It would make travelling out in the wilderness much easier.  This also allows you to add batteries to the game, as well as some other items that could run off of batteries.

    There should be a way to light up cities.  Somehow through crafting, repairing breakers, power plants, etc.  This could also increase playability at night.  I don't know if you guys notice, but mostly only day time servers have a lot of people at night.  People just don't enjoy it in general.

    Increased chance to drop night vision goggles inside stores and military bases.  That should help this as well.

    Increased loot in general, not too significant, but increased none the less.

     

    Actually I like the fact that the runners are faster than the players, none of this backpedaling while firing stuff or just trying to straigh run for it because they catch you.

    handgun + flashlight in other hand is a good idea. NVG are rare at the best of times, I think the should be extremely rare.

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,019Member Uncommon

    Currently all you spawn with is a torch, a bandage and painkillers. For most bandits you are not even worth killing for those things so that is at least a deterrent, the only people that will be killing you on spawn are actual griefers.

    image
  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Species5021

    First off in reply to an earlier comment, the m1911 is probably the best pistol ingame, sound isnt hard, one body hit kills a zombie. And not finding loot in Cherno isn't very strange as half the server starts near it and takes everything they find on the way trough.

    The 1.7.1.5 patch that was just released sets the game back to a decent level, the zombies are fixed, they are harder to ignore then before 1.7.1 but you can crouch run in town without pulling entire blocks of them. Escape a zombie works great now to, run into a house and walk out the other side while being silent and the zombie horde will start looking around where you are while you give them the slip.

    I tend to agree that the loot table needs a bit of tweaking, to much ammo spawns (in weird places) without any decent guns. I spend two hours searching for slugs for my winchester and no luck, because its ammo loot table now spawns almost 99% 2rnd slugs...

    Deer stands spawn empty again and most of those have ammo anyway. The little sheds in gardens in towns suddenly spawn tires... Which sucks because you used to find some decent loot drops from them.

    The double barreled shotgun is to loud for it to be of any use except to pull zombies for miles around, does a decent job at that. And the weird two shell ammo piles that drop for it really messed up the loot table.

    Melee is decent and provides a nice silent alternative, although the crowbar is utter crap, it takes 6 swings to drop a zombie. The axe does a better job and does it in one, the trade off for this one hit silent miracle weapon is that the zombies are badly optimized and they will hit you two or sometimes even three times on the way down after you 'killed' them.

    Morphine needs an up in the loot table aswell, or maybe a farm alternative to mend a broken bone that could be temporary like a splint. The way it works now is that eventually after running trough a couple of towns a zombie somewhere will eventually brake one of your bones and you will be well... Boned.

     

    To end my rant is I have to admit that removing the starter weapon was a harsh move for beginning players but it made it hardly impossible to get by. By doing it i have started to respect and fear the common zombie once again, the playing field between bandit players and rabid zombies might actually be level now.

    Yea I agree with pretty much everything.

     

    Love the new Zombie AI but hate not spawning with any weapon.  I think starting with a Makarov and 1 clip 1, can of beans, 1 empty Water Canteen, 1 Pain killers, 1 bandage and 1 Morphine is the best alternative.

     

    I hate the loot spawns, everything is either ammo (mostly the 2 rd shotgun varitey which is a waste, those and the dbl barreled need to go or at the least drop the 2 rd clips and let the dbl barrled use the normal M10 variety) or empty cans/whiskey bottles.  Seriously Its hardly worth the effort any more for me because it takes on average for me 2-3 deaths and 2+ hours to find all the basic scavenging equipment that we used to start with.  Cherno and Elektro are either death traps (which they always were) for very little rewards.  I havnt found an Alice Pack or a tier 2 weapon in either of those cities since the 1.7.1.2 patch.

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  • StrangeEyesStrangeEyes vlaardingenPosts: 119Member

    Im in favor of starting out this way with no weapon and no drink or food you realy have to be carefull now and explore every inch find something to survive.

    Nomore carebear/casual gameplay DayZ is for HARDCORE!!!

     

    Who would ever predict that a mod this harcore would have 1million unique acounts?.... ill say NOBODY.

    Im loving it finally a smallgame with MOD that get its deserved attention from a wide audiance of gamers.

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  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,385Member Uncommon

    Hated it at first, but now I love it and would hate to have it put back. You can get around zombies without a weapon now that the AI has improved. It also causes less shoreline gankage and more player interaction and teamwork from my experience.

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  • ChrisboxChrisbox Posts: 1,722Member Uncommon

    I think its good, because once you get weapons your in game ego just shooots up insanely knowing that you can kill zombies.  That being said it is currently really, really hard to not shoot players on sight.  I mean they have so much supplies one would need, why wouldnt you?

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  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    The way I see it is this...

     

    Either you have people whining about getting shot on the coastal line as soon as they spawn, since everybody has a gun when starting out, or you have people whining about the game being too hard with no gun when starting out

     

    Either way you will have people whining

     

    Starting without a gun teaches players to use stealth early on. Sure it's unforgiving. Some may quit out of frustration but this isn't CoD. It's a survival game where finding resources to stay alive is the main focus. It also makes finding a gun something rewarding which changes the game for you then and there.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Starpower

    The way I see it is this...

     

    Either you have people whining about getting shot on the coastal line as soon as they spawn, since everybody has a gun when starting out, or you have people whining about the game being too hard with no gun when starting out

     

    Either way you will have people whining

     

    Starting without a gun teaches players to use stealth early on. Sure it's unforgiving. Some may quit out of frustration but this isn't CoD. It's a survival game where finding resources to stay alive is the main focus. It also makes finding a gun something rewarding which changes the game for you then and there.

    I disagree but only because of personal play experience.  As a newbie with no gun I am more prone to run toward the nearest barn without a care in the world and try and lose the zombies through stealth (run through a building and out the other side to lose zombies) if I find a gun or suicide if I dont and try again.  Before that patch I cared more because my equpiment meant somethign and even though it was starter equipment I didnt want to lose it so I would low crawl everywhere trying to get better equipment but the issue of treating my starter gear as lifesaving made me care about my character whereas now I do not care UNTILL I find a gun.

     

    Other issues are the low spawn of equipment, its been a week now since this patch went live and I ahvnt found an Alice pack or any kind of Tier 1 weapon way to many cans.  The last issue is broken bones are a common occurence and are pretty much a death with no starter morphine.  I still think starting with basic survival neccessities but a very small portion of it is more condusive to actually caring about your character.

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  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,019Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by remyburke

    Hated it at first, but now I love it and would hate to have it put back. You can get around zombies without a weapon now that the AI has improved. It also causes less shoreline gankage and more player interaction and teamwork from my experience.

    I like the change but for me its caused less player interaction, once I get a good gun new players without a gun just run away from me and experienced players just kill me on sight to take it.

    Currently the main problem with the game is that there is no co operation in game, people outside the game in clans are the only people really cooperating, everyone else is on there own and if you don't kill someone on sight then you are a fool because you will get shot about a minute later.

    The voice chat in game is flaky and the removal of a world chat has taken away the feeling of this being a multiplayer game for me, I know it wasn't realistic to have world chat but it certainly made treks across the countryside less dull and I had more player cooperation experiences through that.

    image
  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member Common

    Tried this for first time other day and didn't start with a gun.  the game was boring.  everyone ran from me even though I was unarmed and because I didn't have a weapon I spent most of my time moving slow.

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,019Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Starpower

    The way I see it is this...

     

    Either you have people whining about getting shot on the coastal line as soon as they spawn, since everybody has a gun when starting out, or you have people whining about the game being too hard with no gun when starting out

     

    Either way you will have people whining

     

    Starting without a gun teaches players to use stealth early on. Sure it's unforgiving. Some may quit out of frustration but this isn't CoD. It's a survival game where finding resources to stay alive is the main focus. It also makes finding a gun something rewarding which changes the game for you then and there.

    I disagree but only because of personal play experience.  As a newbie with no gun I am more prone to run toward the nearest barn without a care in the world and try and lose the zombies through stealth (run through a building and out the other side to lose zombies) if I find a gun or suicide if I dont and try again.  Before that patch I cared more because my equpiment meant somethign and even though it was starter equipment I didnt want to lose it so I would low crawl everywhere trying to get better equipment but the issue of treating my starter gear as lifesaving made me care about my character whereas now I do not care UNTILL I find a gun.

     

    Other issues are the low spawn of equipment, its been a week now since this patch went live and I ahvnt found an Alice pack or any kind of Tier 1 weapon way to many cans.  The last issue is broken bones are a common occurence and are pretty much a death with no starter morphine.  I still think starting with basic survival neccessities but a very small portion of it is more condusive to actually caring about your character.

    I agree with you about starting out haha, with a bit of experience you end up playing like this and it really does take away from the experience. I start with painkillers a bandage and a torch, if I die with those and have to start again, who cares? quick respawn and sprint to the local barn or decent house. 

    Also the zombies are hitting me once, ONE TIME and I start bleeding, really does my nut in, I would rather they hit harder than I start bleeding out after one hit.

    The loot is pretty wonky, I had an Alice backpack full of makarov mags the other day but I couldn't find a makarov anywhere, they are the worst gun so they should be all over the place.

    Also zombies spawning inside buildings now is a joke, so I stealth my way to this building with nothing since I have just spawned and as soon as I go in I am surrounded by 4 zombies that have just spawned out of nothing.

    image
  • BrenelaelBrenelael MainePosts: 3,797Member Uncommon

    Yeah... He should have at least got the Zombie AI nailed down and the Zombie glitches taken care of first and then removed the starter pistol. Trying to do both in the same patch wasn't the smartest move. In 1.7.1.1-1.7.1.4 you not only had to deal with no gun but you also had to deal with spastic super zombies with x-ray vision. It was a mess.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
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    }

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,505Member Uncommon

    ah well remember its still in alpha :) so bugs are to be expected and patches that course other bugs are also to be expected..

  • Z3R01Z3R01 NYC, NYPosts: 2,426Member
    Originally posted by Chrisbox

    I think its good, because once you get weapons your in game ego just shooots up insanely knowing that you can kill zombies.  That being said it is currently really, really hard to not shoot players on sight.  I mean they have so much supplies one would need, why wouldnt you?

    From my experience teaming up with players has you surviving much longer than just trying to kill everyone.

    The other day i hooked up with four complete strangers, instead of killing them for goods, we worked together, shared supplies and its the longest I've lasted in the game.

    Honestly was a much better experience. Imo Killing other players for no reason other than to upset them get sooo old. 

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  • TyrokiTyroki Wellington, FLPosts: 183Member Uncommon

    I kinda miss the pistol.

    Running in to a town is pretty common place in DayZ when you need supplies.

    Being unable to fight back against players when you find those supplies with anything more than a hatchet or crowbar? It sucks =

     

    Once he's sorted other things out first? Then he should have done this. Not at the same time only to find it wasn't working.

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  • RavenRaven LondonPosts: 1,962Member Uncommon

    I didnt read through the whole thread, but this is my opinion about the new changes:

    It is much much harder now to get up and running with the current equipment layout you start with, this is not necessarily a bad thing, I do enjoy a bit of challenge, but when I want to join up with some friends and we are trying to find eachother it gets much harder specially if you aggro a zombie, there is no way to shake it off, also I have noticed a bit more rubber banding on the zombies, so sometimes they hit you from really far away so you cant really effectively visually decide whether to stand your ground or run in most occasions. 

    Another thing not really related to the weapon but its the broken bones mechanic, that has to be broken at the moment, you basically get hit, even just a bad collision while moving about with another player and you end up with a broken bone, not only that but you ALWAYS break your legs it seems so once that happens your stuck crawling if you werent lucky enough to have some morphine, that needs to change maybe some whole body status rather than just broken bone means you have broken your legs, add to that the fact that melee weapons are pretty useless when combined with zombie rubber banding and your stuck trying to avoid zombies that aggro through walls until you get morphine and a weapon.

    Until all of this is fixed they need to give you a more effective weapon to begin with. 

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