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GW2 targetting

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

I have been loving games with FPS targetting... games like TSW, TERA and DCUAnd i just love the system.

Tough i must admit that the GW2 targetting system feels natural too, but....

 

Do you think GW2 would be a better game if they had true FPS targetting?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

Comments

  • IrusIrus Wichita, KSPosts: 774Member

    I don't believe games are made better or worse by different targeting systems. What GW2 has right now works for it.

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member

     

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Irus

    I don't believe games are made better or worse by different targeting systems. What GW2 has right now works for it.

    This ^.

    The whole debate over the targetting systems seems rather gimmicky tbh. I can honestly say that I find the combat in GW2 to be a lot more challenging than a game like TERA, even though TERA feels more skill based on face value, because you have the targetting reticle.

    The targetting system isn't what makes a game inherently better or worse, easy or more challenging. I've played games with FPS targetting that are painfully easy, and I've played games with tab targetting that are rage-inducing hard. It really comes down to how the targetting works with the combat as to whether or not it's good or not.

    GW2's targetting system isn't an auto-hit. It's both a guide and for some skills a gentle push in the right direction. However, there is so much more to whether or not you land an attack in this game, than the TAB targetting makes very little difference. FPS feels nice for some games, but for this one there is usually so much going on, that it is good to have a bit of notification as to what you're focusing on. Plus, without it it would be very difficult to tell what types of buffs / conditions a player has on him.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member

    You couldn't pay me to play Tera. It is the first game in awhile where I didn't get my moneys worth. I think I managed to force myself to get to level 12 before calling it quits.

    I personally think GW2 combat is far superior to Tera's combat.

    I think GW2 has some of the best mmo combat I have played. It keeps me on my toes, rather than putting me to sleep.

  • cyress8cyress8 Croatia, VTPosts: 832Member
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

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  • VagabondLifeVagabondLife Grand Junction, COPosts: 91Member
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    So does GW2 but you don't have to use it....you can just "center-aim" at a target and hit it. And even if you tab target, if your target moves too far you can still miss it. FPS's usually use a targeting reticle for shooting.

  • Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    Yeah I think that has to be a mistake, TSW doesn't have that.

     

    Also TERA is not FPS targeting.  Yes it has a reticle, but its not as targetted as you may think.  Also many spells are auto-hit and sorc have skills that have "target-lock".  The reticle is not used in anywhere near the way it would be in a FPS, yes you can fuck up and miss, but its not that hard to hit something in TERA.  You do need to pay attention and what not.

    The real skill in TERA  comes down to  timing/awareness not aiming.

    There is more than one reason Warriors are getting a block.  One of the reason is some things are only "dodgable" by timing your invulnerability frames just right whereas they are easily blockable.

     

    Anyway DDO's been doing this stuff for years but no one talks about it.  Of course it is far more clunky than TERA's.

  • Originally posted by VagabondLife
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    So does GW2 but you don't have to use it....you can just "center-aim" at a target and hit it. And even if you tab target, if your target moves too far you can still miss it. FPS's usually use a targeting reticle for shooting.

    It would be nice if GW2 had some sort of reticle like functionality for some ranged weapons.  Sometimes I have found the auto locking being frustrating and not-so functional in certain large group situations.

  • JupstoJupsto englandPosts: 2,087Member

    tera is not a true shooter/twitch like darkfall or planetside 2, but still its a huge improvement over tab targetting. gw2 would be WAY better with tera targeting, main put off is the no skill tab targeting. however I would still rather GW1's skill system with tab targetting ;(

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  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member
    Originally posted by VagabondLife
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    So does GW2 but you don't have to use it....you can just "center-aim" at a target and hit it. And even if you tab target, if your target moves too far you can still miss it. FPS's usually use a targeting reticle for shooting.

    Yeah, TSW is somewhat similar to that. But the different in both systems to an FPS is that, when you tab target, your attacks will bend in mid-air.

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 18,000Member Uncommon

    Not really, no.

    FPS targetting sadly gives meleee players a great advantages in a MMO and it is really hard to balance that.

    You could of course up the damage of ranged combat to compensate but it would be really hard to get it right.

    AoCs mix of ranged tab targetting and collision detection in melee would have worked though if you removed the silly movement arrows.

  • DaezAsterDaezAster new york, NYPosts: 803Member

    Well with GW2 it is more an option than a necessity. TSW is pretty much tha same in that regard.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Not really, no.

    FPS targetting sadly gives meleee players a great advantages in a MMO and it is really hard to balance that.

    You could of course up the damage of ranged combat to compensate but it would be really hard to get it right.

    AoCs mix of ranged tab targetting and collision detection in melee would have worked though if you removed the silly movement arrows.

    Collision detection was awesome in PvP in AoC.

    It meant you could have 2 or 3 melee hold choke points and hold off greater numbers. I remember our guild holding the steps that led to Thoth Amon's against larger zergs.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Not really, no.

    FPS targetting sadly gives meleee players a great advantages in a MMO and it is really hard to balance that.

     

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  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Not really, no.

    FPS targetting sadly gives meleee players a great advantages in a MMO and it is really hard to balance that.

    You could of course up the damage of ranged combat to compensate but it would be really hard to get it right.

    AoCs mix of ranged tab targetting and collision detection in melee would have worked though if you removed the silly movement arrows.

    Collision detection was awesome in PvP in AoC.

    It meant you could have 2 or 3 melee hold choke points and hold off greater numbers. I remember our guild holding the steps that led to Thoth Amon's against larger zergs.

    im glad that GW2 dont have that colision system. 

    destroy a gate.....enemy have 20 guardians inside ready to make a block line. 

    2 lines of 10 guardians pure defensive/support and you will take much more time to pass this line of guardians than to destroy a gate...

    add 1 element for each 5 guardian and 1 Necro for each 5 guardian and you would have a block line much better than a wall...

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon

    There is no need for an fps-style-targetting system unless you provide your models with more than one hitbox (at least one for the head, others for legs and arms). I haven't seen any skills that hamstring your foe by targetting your foe's legs in Tera, hence the whole targetting system in that game is an illusion.

    In GW2 you can pretty much kill everything without ever targeting something. That's pretty obvious for melee combat, and after BWE2 also for ranged combat. Watch this if you don't believe some words: http://youtu.be/UHc0k9s0Lk0?t=1m36s

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    I have been loving games with FPS targetting... games like TSW, TERA and DCUAnd i just love the system.

    Tough i must admit that the GW2 targetting system feels natural too, but....

     

    Do you think GW2 would be a better game if they had true FPS targetting?

     

    They all have their ups and downs.   Especially with AoE targeting uphill.   Unless I missed it in the configuration options,  GW2, like most games, has a real camera constraint with that concept.    I'm not sure how they could make it better unless they did something like a targeting sphere that became temporarily bound to the mouse wheel, or some other key, that would allow you to move it to and from you on a LOS basis...

     

    I didn't play Tera.    I did play about 12 hours (in total) the TSW beta.   I think the combat systems are more similar than different and function, to a great extent, the same.

  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    Yeah I think that has to be a mistake, TSW doesn't have that.

     

    Also TERA is not FPS targeting.  Yes it has a reticle, but its not as targetted as you may think.  Also many spells are auto-hit and sorc have skills that have "target-lock".  The reticle is not used in anywhere near the way it would be in a FPS, yes you can fuck up and miss, but its not that hard to hit something in TERA.  You do need to pay attention and what not.

    The real skill in TERA  comes down to  timing/awareness not aiming.

    There is more than one reason Warriors are getting a block.  One of the reason is some things are only "dodgable" by timing your invulnerability frames just right whereas they are easily blockable.

     

    Anyway DDO's been doing this stuff for years but no one talks about it.  Of course it is far more clunky than TERA's.

    DDO has won awards for its combat system.   I really liked it.   My issues with game really stem from the min/max cookie-cutter build system built into the DnD 3.5 rule set.   They just made it an 'exploit' game.

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    Yeah I think that has to be a mistake, TSW doesn't have that.

     

    Also TERA is not FPS targeting.  Yes it has a reticle, but its not as targetted as you may think.  Also many spells are auto-hit and sorc have skills that have "target-lock".  The reticle is not used in anywhere near the way it would be in a FPS, yes you can fuck up and miss, but its not that hard to hit something in TERA.  You do need to pay attention and what not.

    The real skill in TERA  comes down to  timing/awareness not aiming.

    There is more than one reason Warriors are getting a block.  One of the reason is some things are only "dodgable" by timing your invulnerability frames just right whereas they are easily blockable.

     

    Anyway DDO's been doing this stuff for years but no one talks about it.  Of course it is far more clunky than TERA's.

    DDO has won awards for its combat system.   I really liked it.   My issues with game really stem from the min/max cookie-cutter build system built into the DnD 3.5 rule set.   They just made it an 'exploit' game.

    D&D's been an exploit game since 2nd edition. Are you surprised?

     

    Back on topic, the target lock doesn't bother me for the most part since A) attacks can usually be intercepted by anotehr unfriendly/LOS'd/Dodged. The homing attacks are slightly annoying, but do'n't remove much of the challenge from the game.

     

    Mind you, if an MMO had Tera's complete lack of a target lock, but used GW2's skill philsophy (it's not about a rotation, it's about making clever decisions and timing) then I'd be all over it.

  • XssivXssiv Haskell, NJPosts: 359Member

    Personally, I enjoy tab-targeting in MMO's.  It's a nice break from FPS targeting for people like myself who play both types of game regularly.  

  • Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by gestalt11
    Originally posted by cyress8
    Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

    As a TSW fan i have to ask: What FPS targeting?

    Was wondering the same.  TSW and GW2 targetting are very similar.  TSW still has tab targetting. 

    Yeah I think that has to be a mistake, TSW doesn't have that.

     

    Also TERA is not FPS targeting.  Yes it has a reticle, but its not as targetted as you may think.  Also many spells are auto-hit and sorc have skills that have "target-lock".  The reticle is not used in anywhere near the way it would be in a FPS, yes you can fuck up and miss, but its not that hard to hit something in TERA.  You do need to pay attention and what not.

    The real skill in TERA  comes down to  timing/awareness not aiming.

    There is more than one reason Warriors are getting a block.  One of the reason is some things are only "dodgable" by timing your invulnerability frames just right whereas they are easily blockable.

     

    Anyway DDO's been doing this stuff for years but no one talks about it.  Of course it is far more clunky than TERA's.

    DDO has won awards for its combat system.   I really liked it.   My issues with game really stem from the min/max cookie-cutter build system built into the DnD 3.5 rule set.   They just made it an 'exploit' game.

    D&D's been an exploit game since 2nd edition. Are you surprised?

     

    Back on topic, the target lock doesn't bother me for the most part since A) attacks can usually be intercepted by anotehr unfriendly/LOS'd/Dodged. The homing attacks are slightly annoying, but do'n't remove much of the challenge from the game.

     

    Mind you, if an MMO had Tera's complete lack of a target lock, but used GW2's skill philsophy (it's not about a rotation, it's about making clever decisions and timing) then I'd be all over it.

    I'm confused.  TERA does have target lock.  There is no complete lack of target lock in TERA.

     

    In fact I would say that TERA is worse off than GW2 since in TERA HOW you mitigate things is locked in.  A block class (zerker/lancer) has an easy way to deal with target lock.  Dodge classes do not have a good way.

    In GW2 almsot every class has other means of mitigation in addtion to dodge, additionally the homing is not pure auto hit like the target lock in TERA which causes a fireball to do loop-de-loops to hit you no matter what you do.

     

    The only difference is rarity.  Target lock is somewhat rare in TERA.  But even so some bosses have major attacks that target locks and so do some player classes.

  • nyxxisnyxxis Independence, MOPosts: 62Member

    For ranged to be even semi effective in an mmo setting you almosst have to have tab targetting. Melee do not need it as much as keeping a target directly in front of you is a lot easier, not to mention basiclly staying on target. With ranged, in situations like DE's you would be pouring through targets and getting un-needed attention from a lot of different mobs. If I wanted to play a FPS I would play one.

    Even DDO has targeting for ranged/casters. You can focus on a target as long as you are facing them. I must say that any targetting system is better than WoW's when your ranged attack can make 90 degree turns and even boomarang if the situation is right. In GW2 your target falls or moves from screen your attack still aims where you were pointing.

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