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What justifies a subscription fee in your mind?

MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member

Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

(1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

(2) Competent, active GMs

(3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

(4) An active, responsive community team

 

I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

(5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

(6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

(7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

(8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

 

What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

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Comments

  • DaezAsterDaezAster new york, NYPosts: 803Member

    I am really against the triple down model. Either sell me the game, rent me the game, or sell me stuff in the game. I think the monthly fee needs to go. If I only game on weekends Im paying for a month for less than a weeks worth of time, a lower increment of time is needed. It made sense at a time but I dont think it will be around much longer as is atleast.  

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member

    Your points don't make much sense. What do they have to do with sub fees? If i pay any amount of money for an mmorpg, i expect all those things. When i don't give any money to the devs, then i can't ask much in return. But if i pay a box price, expansions packs, sub fee, cash shop items, i demand good service. I give them my money, they keep taking care of the game.

    In single players, i pay for the box, i expect a good, stable game, but it's not one that will keep getting taken cared of. I may pay for DLC, and the expectations are the same as the original game. An mmo on the other hand is a continuos experience without end (finite content i know, but still) so if i pay in any form, i want to se the results in-game.

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member

    Honestly i would agree we should have a flex-payment system as like with some people they do not play enouph to to warrant it; yet how many hours of fun does it take to warrant paying 15 dallors, when you can pay that at a movie or such sometimes, and that is for what one to three hours of enjoyment. To me being able to play the game in a enjoyable fashion, while getting basically free quality content (i mean even if it takes 6 months to make, at 15 dallors that is not that much money for it.), and also a balanced stable game is more than enouph. The issue with other off-line servises is that it is well off-line an most likely either not fully under their control or people that do not care about their jobs.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    I think the only way I'd justify sub fee is either the game doesn't require further fees (not even expansions) or the game has a heavy focus on GM run content/events P&P style.

    Everything else (1-4, 7, 8) I expect to see with box sales. Just like with any other software product.

    EDIT:

    DON'T YOU DARE LOWER YOUR STANDARDS REGARDING WHAT YOU GET FOR YOUR MONEY!

    Only last week I saw a game which listed "LAN Multiplayer as a separate feature." Or how some companies demand an extra payment to keep your personal information "more safe". Borderline illegal I say.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • kirak2009kirak2009 fredericton, NBPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    i would prfer monthly sub and access to all content over cash shop any day

    Asheron's Call had the best model IMHO, monthy updates and frequent events, made a sub fee worthwhile  for me

     

    "All expectation leads to suffering" Buhhda

  • blognorgblognorg Roseburg, ORPosts: 643Member
    Originally posted by DaezAster

    I am really against the triple down model. Either sell me the game, rent me the game, or sell me stuff in the game. I think the monthly fee needs to go. If I only game on weekends Im paying for a month for less than a weeks worth of time, a lower increment of time is needed. It made sense at a time but I dont think it will be around much longer as is atleast.  

    Isn't a sub fee kind of like renting?

  • fahadjafarfahadjafar ChittagongPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

    In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

    (1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

    (2) Competent, active GMs

    (3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

    (4) An active, responsive community team

     

    I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

    (5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

    (6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

    (7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

    (8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

     

    What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

    ok let me see, currently in USA average payment for an hr in a job is nearly 6$, i will consider 5$. one month sub of a p2p game is 15$, so that is like the payment for 3hrs time in a job, and u want all of those above u mentioned for 15$ a month. ok fine, but for the reocord at least total of 6 terms in ur condition are always fulfilled by most of the p2p game devspublishers out in market atm.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    EverQuest.

    image

  • Mennix1Mennix1 San Diego, CAPosts: 4Member

    Can you also please list all the other subs you pay in your life for comparison then contrast those to the costs of your current game sub? I believe you will find that the cost of your game is much cheaper yet you derive much more entertainment from it compared to those other subs.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

    In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

    (1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

    (2) Competent, active GMs

    (3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

    (4) An active, responsive community team

     

    I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

    (5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

    (6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

    (7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

    (8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

     

    What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

     

    Game needs to be Massively Multiplayer, not Single Player with co-op and Vs modes.

  • DragonantisDragonantis DublinPosts: 974Member

    Very regular updates and patches.

    Multiple community events.

    Fast and efficent customer service.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,423Member Uncommon

    I can sum it up with one word >>>EFFORT.

    I do know what developers can do and what is tough to pull off,so they are not going to fool me with excuses or try to convey some reasons for leaving out content.

    I think 90% of gamers actually know what games SHOULD contain for content and can spot a cheap effort from a good one.So knowing this why do developers keep  cutting corners and make excuses?

    Bored gamers and tons of them,we have all spent money foolishly because we are bored,this happens everywhere in life ,not just gaming.SO developers now are making games with a low enoguh budget that they can recoup it on sales alone.This way if everyoen quits,they still made a profit.

    I cannot make the whole list of what warrants a subscription fee ,there is too mcuch depth to explain.I would have to bascially write the script for an entire game to explain what a game should have.

    I can say that pvp will have absolutely no bearing on weather i pay or not.The SIMPLE part of character customization that is the  looks,facial,hair ect ect,has no bearing what so ever.I will soon be covering all that up with gear anyhow.

     

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member

    If GW2 can do what they do (which is already 99% more then any other MMO) then I can never jsutify me paying a monthly sub fee except in the rare circumstances Ive been looking forward to the game for a while (TSW and TESO are the only 2 games on my immediate radar I will fork over a sub fee for) or if heaven forbids someone makes an updated Asherons Call in which I would gladly fork over $50.00 a month to pay as long as the popualtion was high enough.  (population issues is the only reason why I quit AC in the first place).

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • ValuaValua LiverpoolPosts: 520Member

    Content. 

     

    That is all.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    I agree with the guy that said "no double/triple dipping, not even for expansions". Thusly, EVE is king.

    Otherwise, never running out of things to do - again, EVE is king.

     

    ~Yeah, I'd be playing EVE right now if the community wasn't a mongol horde of dickpunchers. If any game can come out with the sheer amount of options it has, but with a community I can actually gel with, I'd pay them what they ask for.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • obiiobii WienPosts: 779Member Uncommon

    1) I have to like the game :)

    2) GM service and game should bu up most of the time

    3) Development goes into a direction I agree upon

     

    But basically I just have to like the game and my money is theirs.

     

  • Chaos_AmunetChaos_Amunet Spokane, WAPosts: 9Member

    I don't have a lot of money to throw around, so I tend to shy away from games that require a monthly subscription. It takes me quite a while to decide whether or not I actually enjoy playing a game enough to invest in it, and I don't want to pay $10-$20+ a month on top of the cost of the software for something I'm not sure I'm going to like. On the few occasions where I -have- paid for a subscription to play a game, I've expected the following:

    • A lengthy trial period. Thirty days, at least!
    • An engaging game environment, with solid roleplay.
    • A variety of activities within the game. I get bored with nothing but raiding and grinding.
    • A quick server, and even quicker customer service.
    • Regular maintenance and development.
    I believe in supporting the companies that produce products I use, and I will gladly spend what meagre funds I may have in order to do so, but I feel that loyalty needs to be earned, first. They've really got to work to get my money!
  • Bama1267Bama1267 Waterloo, NYPosts: 1,847Member
    Originally posted by fahadjafar
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

    In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

    (1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

    (2) Competent, active GMs

    (3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

    (4) An active, responsive community team

     

    I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

    (5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

    (6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

    (7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

    (8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

     

    What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

    ok let me see, currently in USA average payment for an hr in a job is nearly 6$, i will consider 5$. one month sub of a p2p game is 15$, so that is like the payment for 3hrs time in a job, and u want all of those above u mentioned for 15$ a month. ok fine, but for the reocord at least total of 6 terms in ur condition are always fulfilled by most of the p2p game devspublishers out in market atm.


     That must be counting illegals, because the minimum wage itself is around 7.50 or so, lol. That and it doesnt count every job that pays more than that. So to strengthen your position, it really only takes about 2 hours or less to be able to pay for a subscription.

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon

    If I have to buy it then rent it on top of it it is not worth it. I pay for tons of services like Netflix and Block Buster home they cost me $8.99 for one and $10.99 for the other and do I feel I get my moneys worht yeah because my family uses them I even have dish network and it cost more then any of my other bills and we hardly use it but we use netflix and blockbuster home all the time. I dont go out to movies cause I have a 47" tv and home theater system and can buy a box of pop corn and red box a movie on dvd for way less then going to the theater. In fact me and my family have gone to a total of 6 movies in 5 yrs. We own a pool thats a walmart speaciel but its 18' by 4' and does better then going to the lake or local pool. We also have a half acre of property so dont need much more then that. We have BBQ's and family fun all the time and I still dont see a point on spending an extra $15 to $30 a month for subs that I could save for something better like buying my kids say some new school supplies or even maybe an outfit or 2.

    Yeah to some $15 isnt much to me it isnt ethier but if I dont get to play the game for the whole time I pay the fee to rent it it isnt worth it sorry but thats it you buy achsess to the game for $50 to $60 then rent it for another $15 dollers on top of that. I would rather watch my kids faces when we are sitting down watching a movie together or sitting on the back porch watching the sun set then pay to rent some character slots on a game.

     Oh and so most of you know I save on average a year by doing this about $300+ a year if I dont buy every new mmo which the last one I bought was Tera and I did get a refund for it because I never played more then 18 hrs in the first month I owned it. And before that It was Lotro I have not bought a game other wise because for every p2p there is 50+ f2p games and have been for 6 years before that it was 10 to 1 as in 10 f2p to 1 p2p and before Wow it was 15 to 1 and during EQ1 days it was 2 to 1. To me if the games where free to download then you rent it I could understand maybe but after some many games being f2p as is and going back to the time of EQ1 yeah alot of them might be P2W but heck some of us learned to get buy with less then $30 for a year worth of game play sometimes we would play a game for a year before we would even pay into it because we wanted to make sure it was worth it. Oh well thats the way I do with my gaming and Hope that GW2 brings a little change to the market this time.

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Arguing over what minimum wage is doesn't justify paying a sub if a game simply doesn't deserve one.

    If you are arguing that most games deserve a sub for the sake of... God knows what... /facepalm

    This is how class warfare starts - because one guy wants to flaunt his ability to pay more and blame everyone else for the standard of quality is dropping because of "cheapskates and freeloaders". You know damned well why the quality is dropping, and the fault at hand that you can place on the consumer is simply for *putting up with it*. /foolish

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • nolic1nolic1 Kingman, AZPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Arguing over what minimum wage is doesn't justify paying a sub if a game simply doesn't deserve one.

    If you are arguing that most games deserve a sub for the sake of... God knows what... /facepalm

    This is how class warfare starts - because one guy wants to flaunt his ability to pay more and blame everyone else for the standard of quality is dropping because of "cheapskates and freeloaders". You know damned well why the quality is dropping, and the fault at hand that you can place on the consumer is simply for *putting up with it*. /foolish

    I agree with you on that its almost no different then the F2P games where they say if you dont pay your a freeloader but if you dont pay what they do your a cheapskate it happens all the time in this genre and people dont see it.

    image
    To me I enjoy gaming I dont play to be uber I play to have fun. If a game is not fun to me guess what I move on and play something else till I find one that is. When I find that great game and not sure if in my life time there will be one I hope it has everything I want in an mmo.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by nolic1

    I agree with you on that its almost no different then the F2P games where they say if you dont pay your a freeloader but if you dont pay what they do your a cheapskate it happens all the time in this genre and people dont see it.

    The people saying all that have their nose too high in the air to even bother trying any F2P games.

    They haven't changed along with the genre, and are still carrying some curmudgeonly outlook from the late 90's. Bush era shit... papa-Bush.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • MalcanisMalcanis LondonPosts: 3,191Member
    Originally posted by TheCrow2k
    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Is merely keeping the server open and spending a buck or two on the bandwidth enough, or do you demand more for your $10-$15 a month?

    In my opinion, paying a subscription fee should entitle the MMO customer to expect at minimum the following:

    (1) Frequent, regular bug-fixing and exploit-patching

    (2) Competent, active GMs

    (3) A game that's in a fully working condition to play, and which fufills the promises made by advertising (or at the least, has the reasonable expectation of fulfilling those not currently delivered in the near future)

    (4) An active, responsive community team

     

    I think paying subscribers should also reasonably expect at least some of:

    (5) Access to all the content in the game without further payment

    (6) An expectation that the game will continue to be developed and expanded, and for that direction to be communicated

    (7) Some level of input or interaction with the Dev team as to the future direction of the game.

    (8) Proper game documentation and tutorials

     

    What are your thoughts? Which subscription MMOs actually deliver to your expectations for a subscription? Should subbed MMOs which don't deliver go F2P or should they raise their game, so to speak?

     

    Game needs to be Massively Multiplayer, not Single Player with co-op and Vs modes.

     

    Why? Couldn't an argument be made that paying for access to a gateway that allows you to easily and seamlessly integrate your "massively singleplayer" experience is something that people want, and will pay for and that costs money to provide?

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    I think monthly sub and access to all content is the best and only model MMORPGs should use I really hate all these f2p games with cash shops :( but sadly the companies have found a way to make more money so they are not gonna stop..

     

     

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 540Member Uncommon

    Nothing really justifies 15 a month, your average game takes 5 years to produce with a massive team all the bills during that period new technoligies etc etc and all it costs is 60 bucks, wheras a month is a month with a relatively miniscule costs but yet you pay one fourth of the price of a full game every single month. Not to mention you tend to need to buy said mmo for 60 bucks anyway.

     

    Being ok with paying it though is another thing and the game simply just have to be good(fun) enough no specific checklist, if it's the  best goddamn game in the entire world i'd pay a 15 sub even if it never gets any updates got no support yada yada.

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