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Star Wars: The Old Republic: SWTOR at E3 2012

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Comments

  • cutthecrapcutthecrap nobusinessofyoursPosts: 600Member
    Originally posted by starwarsnut

    even if they launched the game today with 1.1-1.3 the facts still remain you have an incompetent dev team.James ohlen is very stupid and arrogant. To come out and say your company has the best pvp team then to present the your customer the most god aweful botched broken pvp system ive ever seen really says a lot to me as a customer. 

     

    The problem lies with james ohlen and that pos dev team. Until there gone your not going have anything but carebear pve and pvp lol look at the warhammer online forums its a clone of the swtor ones gabe couldnt fix the same issues there. Now if he couldnt fix the same issue there and that game went to hell how can james ohlen think gabe is the best pvp designer? LMAO seriously you tell me.

    From what I understand, many of those that were on Warhammer Online were also the ones that were behind DAoC, which is still considered as one of the best PvP in MMO's. Besides that, from what I recall, WAR's PvP wasn' considered by most in that time as horrible at all but very enjoyable with some nifty mechanics. The problem was that with emptying servers it became a lot less fun, especially in a 2-faction system.

  • starwarsnutstarwarsnut oceanside, CAPosts: 189Member
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by starwarsnut

    even if they launched the game today with 1.1-1.3 the facts still remain you have an incompetent dev team.James ohlen is very stupid and arrogant. To come out and say your company has the best pvp team then to present the your customer the most god aweful botched broken pvp system ive ever seen really says a lot to me as a customer. 

     

    The problem lies with james ohlen and that pos dev team. Until there gone your not going have anything but carebear pve and pvp lol look at the warhammer online forums its a clone of the swtor ones gabe couldnt fix the same issues there. Now if he couldnt fix the same issue there and that game went to hell how can james ohlen think gabe is the best pvp designer? LMAO seriously you tell me.

    From what I understand, many of those that were on Warhammer Online were also the ones that were behind DAoC, which is still considered as one of the best PvP in MMO's. Besides that, from what I recall, WAR's PvP wasn' considered by most in that time as horrible at all but very enjoyable with some nifty mechanics. The problem was that with emptying servers it became a lot less fun, especially in a 2-faction system.

    yeah i remember hearing that and gabes response to that was lol oh people heard mythic and daoc this isnt daoc.Well he was right there i dont understand it either. Like seriously you have the daoc crew why is this pvp so god aweful and bad

  • cutthecrapcutthecrap nobusinessofyoursPosts: 600Member
    Originally posted by starwarsnut
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by starwarsnut

    even if they launched the game today with 1.1-1.3 the facts still remain you have an incompetent dev team.James ohlen is very stupid and arrogant. To come out and say your company has the best pvp team then to present the your customer the most god aweful botched broken pvp system ive ever seen really says a lot to me as a customer. 

     

    The problem lies with james ohlen and that pos dev team. Until there gone your not going have anything but carebear pve and pvp lol look at the warhammer online forums its a clone of the swtor ones gabe couldnt fix the same issues there. Now if he couldnt fix the same issue there and that game went to hell how can james ohlen think gabe is the best pvp designer? LMAO seriously you tell me.

    From what I understand, many of those that were on Warhammer Online were also the ones that were behind DAoC, which is still considered as one of the best PvP in MMO's. Besides that, from what I recall, WAR's PvP wasn' considered by most in that time as horrible at all but very enjoyable with some nifty mechanics. The problem was that with emptying servers it became a lot less fun, especially in a 2-faction system.

    yeah i remember hearing that and gabes response to that was lol oh people heard mythic and daoc this isnt daoc.Well he was right there i dont understand it either. Like seriously you have the daoc crew why is this pvp so god aweful and bad

    Can't help you there. I mean, look at other examples, George Lucas, the man behind the great Star Wars trilogy also made the meh prequels, Richard Garriott, the guy behind the awesome Ultima series and UO also created the failed Tabula Rasa. Smedley, Roper, Brad McQuaid, after great achievements they all came up with mediocre and disappointing products later on. Molyneux, the man behind games like Dungeon Keeper and Populous and such was nowhere near as good in later years.

     

    So many examples of people who did great stuff only to deliver disappointing results later on in their career, from moviemakers to music artists to game designers to authors. However, that doesn't negate the fact that they're still accountable and praiseworthy for those achievements in their past.

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member


    Originally posted by MikeB


    Anyone wanting to give BioWare flak for basically just not having Open World PvP at the moment would be in the right to do so, but to expect them to abandon or re-prioritize their entire production schedule to shift to Ilum is a bit unreasonable and largely pointless. Development takes time, that's just the reality of the situation. I, for one, hope BioWare takes that time this time around to get their Open World PvP content right.


    This is excatly SWTORs downfall, you can keep on walking your "content" road post release if what you have is worth building onto. But even 7 months after release we still have just___

    [rushed] barebone features.

    Full customizeable companions with class, gear, and appearance (similar to character creation)?
    - No a 6 skin placeholder system which was rushed and has beyond stupid weapon and stat choices. AIM BASED SNIPERS ANYONE?! Hell more than half the companions can only wear blaster pistols, seriously. If this does not scream pathetic i don't know.

    And heres the most obvious catch, the companion systems stops the moment you stop doing quest to level up. Ops, instances, nothing cooperates with the companion system.

    - Space combat, (im not asking for a full freespace but at least a GOOD railshooter with more than 5 maps rehashed)? You can't even explode small frigate class ships, just shoot turrets.

    - Open world PVP Illum? teh hehehe...no it's not funny anymore.

    - Legacy? Even the current state it's not worth being called like that, it's a moneysink shop with a legacy name slapped over it. Nothing there is remotely worth called legacy or respembles in spirit and implementation a "legacy" system as described.

    - Orange gear, social gear, augments? It's now the fourth "change" now with 1.3? Back in BETA everyone told them scrap the whole idea or lift any restrictions. It took them 7 Months to implement them even worth considering a basic functional system?
    .
    .
    I could go on and on, you name it, i will tell you why it's an obvious placeholder system with no initial play value, dare to speak of re-play value lol.

    WoW, Rift, most MMOs got secondary features which can keep you busy between the one RAID LOCK A WEEK for the only INTERESTING RAID. SWTOR doesn't. Yet they only add another layer and expect anyone who's bored of the old raids to keep playing those for 3 months once or twice a week.

    It's funny you can't see it and obviously EAware can't. But here's the catch, another Batman outfit with a purple disco light worm will not fix this issue, but guess what has priority.

    Many wouldn't disagree with EAwares "priority" brabling if they had a decent core game...*IF*.

    I couldn't blame them initially, they rushed out had only poor implemented systems to meet the dead line, OK. But this "priority" brabling? This is where the blame comes in.

    "Oh we just rammed another iceberg? Keep full speed ahead(!)"

    Failed in concept implementation, failed in proper reaction, another Batman Sith Warrior is not going to help.


  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jonoku

    I don't understand why they add content when they know they need to fix the current issues in the game. Adding content won't make people return. People will just assume that it will be crappy like llum. Fix the current issues first before you add new content k cool.

    Hurbis. Out of sheer hubris. It is actually a quite frequent plague among those who at one time were *very* successful, to think they are immune to critique and can not err. Napoleon-syndrome. After his many great successes, he thought "What can go possibly wrong in Russia?" Chewing off more than one can bite, same here.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zinger71
    Batman...lol. I had to see for myself. Sure as heck. There he is. The caped crusader at 0:50...SWTOR is DCUO.

    Gosh it IS Batman! ;)

    But really. I am not sure what to think. SWTORs greatest issue is IMVPO the sterile museum feeling. As long as they don't tackle that, I am not sure I am really interested.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • cutthecrapcutthecrap nobusinessofyoursPosts: 600Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Jonoku

    I don't understand why they add content when they know they need to fix the current issues in the game. Adding content won't make people return. People will just assume that it will be crappy like llum. Fix the current issues first before you add new content k cool.

    Hurbis. Out of sheer hubris. It is actually a quite frequent plague among those who at one time were *very* successful, to think they are immune to critique and can not err. Napoleon-syndrome. After his many great successes, he thought "What can go possibly wrong in Russia?" Chewing off more than one can bite, same here.

    Sorry, but this is sheer and utter nonsense. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. At every step he could've thought with himself 'why should I take that risk, why should I do that venture?', every step could have gone wrong. Yet if he didn't do it, sure, it also wouldn't have gone wrong but he also wouldn't have gained what he did. He lost with Russia, but if those guys like Caesar, Napoleon should have let themselves be stopped thinking 'oh, it might go wrong', then they'd never have achieved the things they did.

    It's exactly because they followed their guts and went their own way that they achieved the things they did and are remembered in history instead of fading away like so many other generals and politicians who didn't dare to or lacked the skills.

    Sure, those historic people suffered losses too, but you win some, you lose some. However, when you venture nothing, you also gain nothing.

    'Chewing off more than one can bite' is a beautiful comment to make in hindsight, but lame because of it. If those same people'd have refused to do their things bc of the risk of chewing off more than they could bite, they never would have achieved the things they did or become the persons remembered in history in the first place image

  • scrabbyscrabby greecePosts: 5Member

    Your Rating of the game : 8.7 !!

    ... Seriously now :D

    ( wonder why ??? )

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member

    Not a bad game at all. I will check it out once again in couple of months. But it did open with way too many servers. It is impossible to keep so many servers full. Mergers were inevitable.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by skydiver12

     


    Originally posted by MikeB

     


    Anyone wanting to give BioWare flak for basically just not having Open World PvP at the moment would be in the right to do so, but to expect them to abandon or re-prioritize their entire production schedule to shift to Ilum is a bit unreasonable and largely pointless. Development takes time, that's just the reality of the situation. I, for one, hope BioWare takes that time this time around to get their Open World PvP content right.


     

    This is excatly SWTORs downfall, you can keep on walking your "content" road post release if what you have is worth building onto. But even 7 months after release we still have just___

    [rushed] barebone features.

    Full customizeable companions with class, gear, and appearance (similar to character creation)?
    - No a 6 skin placeholder system which was rushed and has beyond stupid weapon and stat choices. AIM BASED SNIPERS ANYONE?! Hell more than half the companions can only wear blaster pistols, seriously. If this does not scream pathetic i don't know.

    And heres the most obvious catch, the companion systems stops the moment you stop doing quest to level up. Ops, instances, nothing cooperates with the companion system.

    - Space combat, (im not asking for a full freespace but at least a GOOD railshooter with more than 5 maps rehashed)? You can't even explode small frigate class ships, just shoot turrets.

    - Open world PVP Illum? teh hehehe...no it's not funny anymore.

    - Legacy? Even the current state it's not worth being called like that, it's a moneysink shop with a legacy name slapped over it. Nothing there is remotely worth called legacy or respembles in spirit and implementation a "legacy" system as described.

    - Orange gear, social gear, augments? It's now the fourth "change" now with 1.3? Back in BETA everyone told them scrap the whole idea or lift any restrictions. It took them 7 Months to implement them even worth considering a basic functional system?
    .
    .
    I could go on and on, you name it, i will tell you why it's an obvious placeholder system with no initial play value, dare to speak of re-play value lol.

    WoW, Rift, most MMOs got secondary features which can keep you busy between the one RAID LOCK A WEEK for the only INTERESTING RAID. SWTOR doesn't. Yet they only add another layer and expect anyone who's bored of the old raids to keep playing those for 3 months once or twice a week.

    It's funny you can't see it and obviously EAware can't. But here's the catch, another Batman outfit with a purple disco light worm will not fix this issue, but guess what has priority.

    Many wouldn't disagree with EAwares "priority" brabling if they had a decent core game...*IF*.

    I couldn't blame them initially, they rushed out had only poor implemented systems to meet the dead line, OK. But this "priority" brabling? This is where the blame comes in.

    "Oh we just rammed another iceberg? Keep full speed ahead(!)"

    Failed in concept implementation, failed in proper reaction, another Batman Sith Warrior is not going to help.

     

     

    You are absolutely right, but it is fixable.

    The game was fun and I enjoyed it quite a bit. But just like with Warhammer Online (and basically any other MMO to be honest) it depends on healthy server populations!

    When the servers I played on were heavy populated, the game was actually a total blast! I had tons of fun!

    The problem is that the servers started emptying really quick (inevitable) and then the game starts to suck... bad!  Just like WAR did.

    When you log in each day and are basically alone on an entire planet, with maybe 1-3 other people... it stops being fun, as the only thing you can do is your own char storyline mission and the solo missions, day after day!  No flashpoints, no group missions, hell... even WZ's didn't pop anymore.

    Then it became borefest real quick.

  • starwarsnutstarwarsnut oceanside, CAPosts: 189Member

    like i been saying there biggest problem is they have the most incompetent dev team in history. Look how they prioritized things legacy was put before everything else. Seriously that legacy is a pos tool and its goal is to get you to reroll more. Well whats the point of constant rerolling when they dont fix the end game? Server transfers should have been number 1 priority but nope it was legacy. They say oh were making this game for you and we listen. Well EVERYONE was bitching for server transfers more then anything.

     

    The server transfers are bieng micro managed like ive never seen before its ridiculus you can go here or there but not where you want to go..

     

    I hope the game dies more to be honest so they get the point that we didnt ask for kotor 3 with multiplayer options we asked for an mmo.

    James and gabe need to go for this game to be successful they have done serious damage to swtors creditability and subscribers. James ohlen doesnt know game content from game features tells people were on technology to do open world pvp yet every other game has the "technology" to do it for years. Gabe screwed up with ilum and everything after pretty much has been crap. They lose big amounts of players evry content update due to incompetence.

    They needed server forums from the get go. They can talk server community all they want but they totally blew it went it came to community though.

    This attitude of were gonna just take our time with everything and give you very little doesnt fly in the mmo business. You need to crank content timely and not screw around

    PR fest - I have never seen a game spend more money on PR then the game itself. All pr does is get peoples attention to things the game doesnt have. Look at all the free trials the numbers have not gone back up all theyve done is invite people to play on empty servers no one is gonna subscribe to that.

    This game should have destroyed wow instead they settled for 1 million subs and decling instead of 10 mil subs.

    Arogance - They say this game was made for the fans huh. Well show me the fan who asked for a very linear game with no open world pvp very little mmo features and cartoon graphics? Who are these fans?

    Coming soon - we dont need coming soon the game is in 7 months now what do we have? Very little This is the time to pop out something special while it still counts.

    F2p - this game is not worth 15 bucks in comparison to gw2 and other f2p games. Dcuo is 100 times better then swtor atm and its free. When gw2 launches this game is gonna have to come out with space pvp or something HUGE or lose even more.

     

  • nuttobnuttob Plantation, FLPosts: 291Member
    Originally posted by zinger71
    Batman...lol. I had to see for myself. Sure as heck. There he is. The caped crusader at 0:50...SWTOR is DCUO.

    DC Ultima Online!  Wow what a concept!!!

  • IshkalIshkal Schaumburg, ILPosts: 42Member

    lol stop quoting numbers and facts about EA/Bio given by EA or Bioware as actual FACTS cause they have proven time and time agian for over a decade to be made up, from a certain point of garbage! I am not gonna name names or anything but every Swtor thread theres a few that jus have to say ,"Oh but they got over 3mil subscribers." or my favorite,"They spent more on Swtor then any other game in history!" if they did some devs need to go to jail for stealin. Lets not forget another good one," There's no population problem if there was how could we have 250 servers running."

  • ohiokidohiokid Stow, OHPosts: 9Member

    They must of hired a bunch of politicians to spend their money. They sure did not get bang for thier buck.

  • BobnoxiousBobnoxious Soddy Daisy, TNPosts: 1Member

    I got two classes to level 10 and one to 11 before quitting.  Could I play these characters to 15 free or is free to play to level 15 for new accounts only?

  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by cutthecrap

    From what I understand, many of those that were on Warhammer Online were also the ones that were behind DAoC, which is still considered as one of the best PvP in MMO's.

     Its true, everyone that was not in Hibernia believes DAoC was the best PvP game, especially those that started out in Midgard and was WTF pwning everyone in the other 2 realms...and it only took a year to bring Albion in line with Midgard...couldnt even say if they ever got Hibernia up to snuff because I stopped listening to the complaints 3 years after its release.

    Perspective sucks.

    It would be like me saying Asherons Call was far better with PvP, but thats because I wasnt overwhelemed by 30 minute long 1 on 1 PvP fights nor was my head all full of %$*^ because of the thousands of spells the game had...because someone else can come along that was bad at PvP in that game and mention that a game cant be great at PvP if its too damn hard to do and end up greatly limiting the amount of people doing it...making it harder to enjoy it.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

    I really wanted SWTOR to succeed, more than any other MMO. 

    However, it seems that most companies ignore the fact that this style of MMO is done, its been done so much its painful.  I can't fathom how a team of that size can develop such a bland theme park game, out of Star Wars nonetheless.

    Surely there are gamers amongst the management/developers who would scream out about doing something a bit different or more akin to the original Star Wars.  But no...they go and develop a game that adds zero to the MMO genre and blatantly go for the big box sales up front using sexy cinematics and hype to try and push them over the line. 

    Maybe the wake SWTOR will create in the MMO community on how churning out the same crap isn't going to make a company a multi million dollar profit every month, is a good thing.  Hopefully someone out there will try and be more adventourous.

     

       
     
  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    Originally posted by MikeB

    Adding content and addressing existing issues aren't mutually exclusive. This is a very common misconception about game development. The fact of the matter is you can't get people excited to come back or check out your game with bug fixes. Can you imagine BioWare releasing a flashy trailer all about fixing bugs or addressing some other issues? Adding additional features and content is important to any live game. Fixing bugs and addressing balance issues can (and do) happen at the same time.

    It's looking like a mini-expansion, Mike. I am just betting you that gets some of the mmo casuals to come back for a month or two more.

     

    SWTOR is in great shape post-server merging BTW.  High population servers work out very well and I will be happily doing Hardmode Denova and ranked warzones on my main, while getting my 50 alt geared up by the LFG tool, thats flashpoints and story mode ops raids folks.

     

     

  • MuratReisMuratReis Seattle, WAPosts: 73Member
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    but why is batman in a starwars game?

     

    That was the most disappointing thing about the game for me: the cartoonish, fantasy styles. What were they thinking??

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    Oh look one new planet that nobody has ever heard of, why not a planet thats part of the sw univers.  Oh look cathar, another reskinned human,  why not rodian, wookie, yoda.  

    All in all that is a thin list of things that swtor has to offer for this next 6 months.

    A level cap raise thi soon, one has to wonder.

     

  • BoudewijnsBoudewijns AntwerpPosts: 133Member Uncommon

    the free to play will be a mistake, aspecialy for those goldfarmers.

    so far i didnt se ne spam for gold on my server, but with free to play thats going to change ....

    image

  • GMan33GMan33 Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 79Member Common

    Hehe, this game is a joke. I would normally say, well it will just dwindle down to whatever subs, and just life support it for years to come. But this is EA. EA knows 2 things.

    How to fail in MMO (which they have numerous times, not one success).

    How to shutdown MMOs (they have shutdown multiple MMOs already)

     

    The word is out. This game failed. Some will say, well, the ones who talk on forums are the minority. I say to this, the ones who talk on forums are the most vocal, the most pationate usually. And when the mass majority of all topics here, on SWTOR, and anywhere else talk about negatives, upon negatives of this game, how do you think word of mouth will go, which is the main driving force for an mmo..........really, really bad.

     

    Server mergers will do nothing for this game, it only slowed down the bleeding temporarily. The game will continue to loose people.

     

    The game is flat, the direction of the game is flat, the future is flat.

     

    Have fun on this sinking ship.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by starwarsnut

    like i been saying there biggest problem is they have the most incompetent dev team in history. Look how they prioritized things legacy was put before everything else. Seriously that legacy is a pos tool and its goal is to get you to reroll more. Well whats the point of constant rerolling when they dont fix the end game? Server transfers should have been number 1 priority but nope it was legacy. They say oh were making this game for you and we listen. Well EVERYONE was bitching for server transfers more then anything.

     

    The server transfers are bieng micro managed like ive never seen before its ridiculus you can go here or there but not where you want to go..

     

    I hope the game dies more to be honest so they get the point that we didnt ask for kotor 3 with multiplayer options we asked for an mmo.

    James and gabe need to go for this game to be successful they have done serious damage to swtors creditability and subscribers. James ohlen doesnt know game content from game features tells people were on technology to do open world pvp yet every other game has the "technology" to do it for years. Gabe screwed up with ilum and everything after pretty much has been crap. They lose big amounts of players evry content update due to incompetence.

    They needed server forums from the get go. They can talk server community all they want but they totally blew it went it came to community though.

    This attitude of were gonna just take our time with everything and give you very little doesnt fly in the mmo business. You need to crank content timely and not screw around

    PR fest - I have never seen a game spend more money on PR then the game itself. All pr does is get peoples attention to things the game doesnt have. Look at all the free trials the numbers have not gone back up all theyve done is invite people to play on empty servers no one is gonna subscribe to that.

    This game should have destroyed wow instead they settled for 1 million subs and decling instead of 10 mil subs.

    Arogance - They say this game was made for the fans huh. Well show me the fan who asked for a very linear game with no open world pvp very little mmo features and cartoon graphics? Who are these fans?

    Coming soon - we dont need coming soon the game is in 7 months now what do we have? Very little This is the time to pop out something special while it still counts.

    F2p - this game is not worth 15 bucks in comparison to gw2 and other f2p games. Dcuo is 100 times better then swtor atm and its free. When gw2 launches this game is gonna have to come out with space pvp or something HUGE or lose even more.

     

    Pretty sums up how I feel. Especially the comment about the game was made for fans.  They pretty much missed the mark on attracting Star Wars fans and/or MMO fans.  A large portion of my mates are Star Wars fans through and through and they all played beta and not one subscribed except for me.  Why? Because I couldn't believe that what I saw in Beta was the whole gameplay.  I honestly thought that once I jumped in I would see a lot of deep RPG/MMO elements....I lasted 4 weeks and in the fourth week I think I played Facebook games more.  All my mates are gutted this game ended up linear with such a shallow surface.  Too many expected it to be Freelancer/Jumpgate in a Star Wars Universe...

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