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Tor down to 200k to 300k players Left

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  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Zippy
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Zippy

    Update 6/17:

    Tor dropped down to 6 NA servers and 3 Euro servers that were not dead prior to when the merges began,  Presently on Tor Status there are 10 non dead US servers and 2 servers that are gaining.  There are 4 Euro servers not in dead status with 1 close to coming back to life. Totaling14 non dead servers right now with 3 close to being brought back to life.

    So far with the merges they have now gained in players 3 straight days on Tor Status which is the second time they have posted gains this year and the  first gain since they gained 3 straight days when 1.2 came out.  Keep in mind these gains reflect a 7 day status so likely the gains are larger than  being shown.


    It is likely when the merges are done there may be around 20 total servers left of which 10 will be be very close to going back to dead status.  Generally the trend on what happens on this website is when a server is declining and hits below 1.3 the drop off to hit 1.0 is very swift.  The lower it gets the faster the decline.  Veru much a momentum things.  The more people that jump ship the faster the drop off.   But with the merges and the gains it will take awhile for things to settle and for people to percieve any actual momentum one way or the other. 

    Overall the merge seems to have been successful in quelling the slide.  WIthout the merges Tor would have been down to 4 non dead servers and at least temprarily they will postpone that slide,  My guess is it will buy them a month before momentum shifts and the big drop offs continue.  In a month they will likely be down to 10 servers again and within 2 months I am guess ing it will settle down to 4 or 5 total servers before the population eventually stabilizes.

     

    Largest colapse in MMO history.

    While the decline has been fast it is not clear if it has been faster than AoC.  Which similar to ToR merged servers 6 months after release merging down to a very small amount of servers.  But from an epic wha could have been I think ToR takes the cake.  With the biggest budge,t at least 3 times of any MMO ever released, the decline and dropoff if is quite amazing.  Whether you believe they spent is $200 million or $500 million keep in mind WoW hasd the largest budget ever and was only $75 million.  For the money spent the return is quite bad.  I would imagin ToR's failure will have effects on future MMO funding and development.  I doubt we will see anything close to this much money spent again.  Likely the AAA MMOs will not exceed Rift's $50 million.  Although Archeage devs have said they are going to spend $50 million on development.

    The second effect of ToR is expensive voice over and gimmicks that do not effect gameplay will likely be tossed.  Rift may be the new role model with streamlined 1-50 content and a focus on quality tested endgame.  With Rift's success and ToR's failure I don't think ti means the end of playing ti safe with WoW clones.  But I think it will encourage alternative ideas.  Tera, GW2 and ESO seem to be signaling a shift to more action FPS orientated content.  It will be interesting to see where things go.  The success or failure of Archeage may have a large effect on what we see in the future,  Spending $50 million on a sandbox hybrid has not been done before.

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. I remember EA and BW talking about how the game is profitable with just 500.000k subs, but clearly you know ¨how to make money¨ and ¨business¨ better than BW and EA, you should ask them a job.  GW2, TSW, and even TSO will have voice over, and after swtor is pretty much a must for any p2p MMO in the west. Is just amazing how the people here on mmorpg keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨ when in the real world is the most successful and populated P2P MMO post-WoW, if swtor is a fail what abour rift or tera then?. But is pointless, they hate around swtor is just epic, and dont really matter how wrong about the game the hater are, they really believe in their words even when they have nothing to justify ¨swtor is the biggest failure of the history¨ theory.  

    2.4 million copies sold becuase of what i call the "hype machine" , including me and seven months later it's F2P.

    Rift (Trion) secured new funding made a stunning profit from zero/little experience and a ROOKIE game developer and is producing an xpac plus two new games. 

    SWTOR had Bioware and EA behind it and follow the headlines and the stocks.

     

    Enough said.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71

    EA themselves said SWTOR is NOT a priority.

    Only extremists or black&white thinkers would translate such a statement as 'dead game in maintenance mode' and ignore all other facts in preference of their wishful thinking.

    Not a priority means its not doing good and they will not pour any more money in it.

    Sacking half of their staff is good indicator how things stand.

    Content that is in its final stages will be made (and it was more or less known since february whats in the pipeline), but afterwards it will depend only on results.

    If current trends continue it may as well be maintenance mode.

    Originally posted by hikaru77

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. I remember EA and BW talking about how the game is profitable with just 500.000k subs, but clearly you know ¨how to make money¨ and ¨business¨ better than BW and EA, you should ask them a job.  GW2, TSW, and even TSO will have voice over, and after swtor is pretty much a must for any p2p MMO in the west. Is just amazing how the people here on mmorpg keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨ when in the real world is the most successful and populated P2P MMO post-WoW, if swtor is a fail what abour rift or tera then?. But is pointless, they hate around swtor is just epic, and dont really matter how wrong about the game the hater are, they really believe in their words even when they have nothing to justify ¨swtor is the biggest failure of the history¨ theory.  

    Rightio. Keep dreaming.

    500k is lower limit bro, and they already fired half of their staff.

    Thats how "successful" it is.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

  • ZippyZippy NY, NYPosts: 1,412Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Zippy
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Zippy

    Update 6/17:

    Tor dropped down to 6 NA servers and 3 Euro servers that were not dead prior to when the merges began,  Presently on Tor Status there are 10 non dead US servers and 2 servers that are gaining.  There are 4 Euro servers not in dead status with 1 close to coming back to life. Totaling14 non dead servers right now with 3 close to being brought back to life.

    So far with the merges they have now gained in players 3 straight days on Tor Status which is the second time they have posted gains this year and the  first gain since they gained 3 straight days when 1.2 came out.  Keep in mind these gains reflect a 7 day status so likely the gains are larger than  being shown.


    It is likely when the merges are done there may be around 20 total servers left of which 10 will be be very close to going back to dead status.  Generally the trend on what happens on this website is when a server is declining and hits below 1.3 the drop off to hit 1.0 is very swift.  The lower it gets the faster the decline.  Veru much a momentum things.  The more people that jump ship the faster the drop off.   But with the merges and the gains it will take awhile for things to settle and for people to percieve any actual momentum one way or the other. 

    Overall the merge seems to have been successful in quelling the slide.  WIthout the merges Tor would have been down to 4 non dead servers and at least temprarily they will postpone that slide,  My guess is it will buy them a month before momentum shifts and the big drop offs continue.  In a month they will likely be down to 10 servers again and within 2 months I am guess ing it will settle down to 4 or 5 total servers before the population eventually stabilizes.

     

    Largest colapse in MMO history.

    While the decline has been fast it is not clear if it has been faster than AoC.  Which similar to ToR merged servers 6 months after release merging down to a very small amount of servers.  But from an epic wha could have been I think ToR takes the cake.  With the biggest budge,t at least 3 times of any MMO ever released, the decline and dropoff if is quite amazing.  Whether you believe they spent is $200 million or $500 million keep in mind WoW hasd the largest budget ever and was only $75 million.  For the money spent the return is quite bad.  I would imagin ToR's failure will have effects on future MMO funding and development.  I doubt we will see anything close to this much money spent again.  Likely the AAA MMOs will not exceed Rift's $50 million.  Although Archeage devs have said they are going to spend $50 million on development.

    The second effect of ToR is expensive voice over and gimmicks that do not effect gameplay will likely be tossed.  Rift may be the new role model with streamlined 1-50 content and a focus on quality tested endgame.  With Rift's success and ToR's failure I don't think ti means the end of playing ti safe with WoW clones.  But I think it will encourage alternative ideas.  Tera, GW2 and ESO seem to be signaling a shift to more action FPS orientated content.  It will be interesting to see where things go.  The success or failure of Archeage may have a large effect on what we see in the future,  Spending $50 million on a sandbox hybrid has not been done before.

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. I remember EA and BW talking about how the game is profitable with just 500.000k subs, but clearly you know ¨how to make money¨ and ¨business¨ better than BW and EA, you should ask them a job.  GW2, TSW, and even TSO will have voice over, and after swtor is pretty much a must for any p2p MMO in the west. Is just amazing how the people here on mmorpg keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨ when in the real world is the most successful and populated P2P MMO post-WoW, if swtor is a fail what abour rift or tera then?. But is pointless, they hate around swtor is just epic, and dont really matter how wrong about the game the hater are, they really believe in their words even when they have nothing to justify ¨swtor is the biggest failure of the history¨ theory.  

    No offense but your math is wrong.  On average a developer only gets 25% of the retail sales price back.  But that % is higher now in that on average over 50% of pre launch sales are digital which BW will get a higher % back.  Most likley their average return on 2 millon boxes or 120 milionof sales would be less than  50%.  Maybe a retrun of $50 million.  Tor likely only had 1 million subs the first month.  After that their definition was very liberal including free players and players who have not finished their first month.  a 500k sub average over 6 months would be generous.  Using a high $15 figure that would be $45 million.  Now add itheir costs of mainating the game whic is typically 50% of the amount of subs.  In recent times that number has dropped but considerr that Tor has been maintaining close to 200servers while only having the population to run 10 servers so their average cost is likely extremely high.  Plus they have been advertising on a huge scale since release and until recently retaining a large staff trying to finish the game and save what subs they have left.  I would not be suprised if their costs have not exceeded the $45 million in revenue they have generated. BW and thier investors have lost a lot of money in this game. 

    The 200k or so subs they have left is not going to recoup them the hundred plus million they are short.  Now if your going to argue that BW/EA has lied to us about the cost of development and just made up numbers to increase the games hype I would not have a problem with that.  It is is possible that the real development cost is closer to $100 million than $200 million and that would certainly reduce their losses.  We do know that BW/EA lie and exaggerate quite a bit.   Inlfalting their development cost numbers would not be out of line.  But then again thats a pretty huge assumption. Can we say how much they lost.? can we say what their costs truly were ?  Can we say actually how much they have lost? No.  But we can see the huge loss in subs.  We can see how the game dropped to 9 total servers before the merge. We can see that is likely to bearound 20 maybe 25 servers after the merge and  we can specualte that likley the game will quickly be back to 10 total servers or less soon after the merges end.  We can say that game has been a failure.  With SW brand name, the hype, the fan following this game could have been huge for the next 5+ years. But now its a game that has lost its oppurtunity and is done from being a major game. 

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

  • RingbusRingbus None, CAPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. 

    Your math has no relation to reality.

    EA hasn't made remotely close to 220 million in revenue, let alone actual profits, from this game.

     

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Zippy
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Zippy
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Zippy

    Update 6/17:

    Tor dropped down to 6 NA servers and 3 Euro servers that were not dead prior to when the merges began,  Presently on Tor Status there are 10 non dead US servers and 2 servers that are gaining.  There are 4 Euro servers not in dead status with 1 close to coming back to life. Totaling14 non dead servers right now with 3 close to being brought back to life.

    So far with the merges they have now gained in players 3 straight days on Tor Status which is the second time they have posted gains this year and the  first gain since they gained 3 straight days when 1.2 came out.  Keep in mind these gains reflect a 7 day status so likely the gains are larger than  being shown.


    It is likely when the merges are done there may be around 20 total servers left of which 10 will be be very close to going back to dead status.  Generally the trend on what happens on this website is when a server is declining and hits below 1.3 the drop off to hit 1.0 is very swift.  The lower it gets the faster the decline.  Veru much a momentum things.  The more people that jump ship the faster the drop off.   But with the merges and the gains it will take awhile for things to settle and for people to percieve any actual momentum one way or the other. 

    Overall the merge seems to have been successful in quelling the slide.  WIthout the merges Tor would have been down to 4 non dead servers and at least temprarily they will postpone that slide,  My guess is it will buy them a month before momentum shifts and the big drop offs continue.  In a month they will likely be down to 10 servers again and within 2 months I am guess ing it will settle down to 4 or 5 total servers before the population eventually stabilizes.

     

    Largest colapse in MMO history.

    While the decline has been fast it is not clear if it has been faster than AoC.  Which similar to ToR merged servers 6 months after release merging down to a very small amount of servers.  But from an epic wha could have been I think ToR takes the cake.  With the biggest budge,t at least 3 times of any MMO ever released, the decline and dropoff if is quite amazing.  Whether you believe they spent is $200 million or $500 million keep in mind WoW hasd the largest budget ever and was only $75 million.  For the money spent the return is quite bad.  I would imagin ToR's failure will have effects on future MMO funding and development.  I doubt we will see anything close to this much money spent again.  Likely the AAA MMOs will not exceed Rift's $50 million.  Although Archeage devs have said they are going to spend $50 million on development.

    The second effect of ToR is expensive voice over and gimmicks that do not effect gameplay will likely be tossed.  Rift may be the new role model with streamlined 1-50 content and a focus on quality tested endgame.  With Rift's success and ToR's failure I don't think ti means the end of playing ti safe with WoW clones.  But I think it will encourage alternative ideas.  Tera, GW2 and ESO seem to be signaling a shift to more action FPS orientated content.  It will be interesting to see where things go.  The success or failure of Archeage may have a large effect on what we see in the future,  Spending $50 million on a sandbox hybrid has not been done before.

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. I remember EA and BW talking about how the game is profitable with just 500.000k subs, but clearly you know ¨how to make money¨ and ¨business¨ better than BW and EA, you should ask them a job.  GW2, TSW, and even TSO will have voice over, and after swtor is pretty much a must for any p2p MMO in the west. Is just amazing how the people here on mmorpg keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨ when in the real world is the most successful and populated P2P MMO post-WoW, if swtor is a fail what abour rift or tera then?. But is pointless, they hate around swtor is just epic, and dont really matter how wrong about the game the hater are, they really believe in their words even when they have nothing to justify ¨swtor is the biggest failure of the history¨ theory.  

    No offense but your math is wrong.  On average a developer only gets 25% of the retail sales price back.  But that % is higher now in that on average over 50% of pre launch sales are digital which BW will get a higher % back.  Most likley their average return on 2 millon boxes or 120 milionof sales would be less than  50%.  Maybe a retrun of $50 million.  Tor likely only had 1 million subs the first month.  After that their definition was very liberal including free players and players who have not finished their first month.  a 500k sub average over 6 months would be generous.  Using a high $15 figure that would be $45 million.  Now add itheir costs of mainating the game whic is typically 50% of the amount of subs.  In recent times that number has dropped but considerr that Tor has been maintaining close to 200servers while only having the population to run 10 servers so their average cost is likely extremely high.  Plus they have been advertising on a huge scale since release and until recently retaining a large staff trying to finish the game and save what subs they have left.  I would not be suprised if their costs have not exceeded the $45 million in revenue they have generated. BW and thier investors have lost a lot of money in this game.  The 200k or so subs they have left is not going to recoup them the hundred plus million they are short.

     You forget whatever the fee they have to pay Lucas Arts is for the IP, someone stated it was 30% one time, but they provided no proof of that....So not sure what it is, but I know it isn't 0.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

    Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

    So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

    I'll do it, just because I want to see where this thread goes :)

     

    Here:

    The Old Republic is in EA’s top 10 franchises in terms of profitability, “but it’s not in our top five”. “So it’s a business contributor, while important, is not as important as Medal of Honor or Battlefield or FIFA or Madden or The Sims or SimCity, but it’s more important than Tiger Woods PGA Golf.” “So while I understand there’s an enormous amount of interest, I don’t know that it warrants as much as what we’re seeing right now. But we love the franchise, we’re going to grow the franchise and just like we want to see Tiger Woods Golf grow or SSX grow, or Madden for that matter, we’re going to drive this one for growth.”

    As linked from Tor Talk

     

    EDIT: It should be noted that if EA's profitable lineup was strong you wouldn't be reading things like this. I'm sure folks out there can do the math on TOR, in terms of how profitable thus far.

    Actually old article, they DID lay off a shit load of swtor employees already, so just look at the chart... lol

  • TyvolusTyvolus Charlotte, NCPosts: 190Member


    Originally posted by BigHatLogan

    Originally posted by Tyvolus  

    Originally posted by SpottyGekko If SWTOR really has only 200-300K players left, then EA will shut it down very quickly. They shut down E&B because it wasn't "profitable enough", so they definitely won't run a loss-making game.     So as long as SWTOR is open for business, it means EA are making "enough" profit, regardless of what third-party sites may say about the population 
      LOL !! the game is already made -- 300k subs paying $15 per month is actually RECOVERING their initial investments. the game is done with the expensive initial investment, now is when they MAKE that money back and 300k is a healthy profit for a MMO. try making some sense when you talk. if they got 50k players, then yes keeping it up and running could be considered a loss. But at this point, any MMO will make a profit off 2-300k subs. give us a break.
    You are right.  Of course it will take them 10 years to make back the initial investment, but eventually they will get there...  Unless more people quit.  How many people fit on 30 servers anyway?


    "Of course it will take them 10 years to make back the initial investment, but eventually they will get there." -- thats EA/biowares problem. they should not have wasted all that many on voice acting for an MMO.

    "Unless more people quit. How many people fit on 30 servers anyway?" - I couldnt tell you since I never played the game. Maybe some of the people here who wasted their money and still play can help you out with that.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by Ringbus
    Originally posted by hikaru77

    ¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. 

    Your math has no relation to reality.

    EA hasn't made remotely close to 220 million in revenue, let alone actual profits, from this game.

     

    Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.

     

    4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.

     

    That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.

     

    I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.

     

     

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

    Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

    So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

    Noone but you said completely.

     

    Suggest you take a Goggle 101 class or even look at the MMORPG.com news section.  But then again I wouldn't want facts to fuck up your idea of college 101 debate on the internetz.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

    Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

    So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

    Noone but you said completely.

     

    Suggest you take a Goggle 101 class or even look at the MMORPG.com news section.  But then again I wouldn't want facts to fuck up your idea of college 101 debate on the internetz.

    No grehoof said  that...

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    You know the guy you claimed to only present facts? so much for google 101, couldn't find anything still to back up your facts could you? it is ok take your time, no rush.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by cutthecrap
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

    EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

    Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently image

    Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.

     

    Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

    Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

    I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

    Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

    I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

    Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

    Google it.

    Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

    So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

    Noone but you said completely.

     

    Suggest you take a Goggle 101 class or even look at the MMORPG.com news section.  But then again I wouldn't want facts to fuck up your idea of college 101 debate on the internetz.

    No but you, and others like you keep putting forth the idea the game is dead n buried, and yet it isnt the case.

     

    When we keep getting new things either thru our subs, or the F2P route if it ever comes to that, are you going to keep insisting the game is in maintenance mode yrs from now?

     

    I have a feeling some of you haters will be perma camped on this forum, and crying wolf until you are forced to leave. It is painfully obvious you wont of your own accord, and these troll posts, such as in the OP, are going to continue.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    No but you, and others like you keep putting forth the idea the game is dead n buried, and yet it isnt the case.

     

    When we keep getting new things either thru our subs, or the F2P route if it ever comes to that, are you going to keep insisting the game is in maintenance mode yrs from now?

     

    I have a feeling some of you haters will be perma camped on this forum, and crying wolf until you are forced to leave. It is painfully obvious you wont of your own accord, and these troll posts, such as in the OP, are going to continue.

    Report button is your friend, i am pretty sure he is posting on multiple accounts.

  • Xstatic912Xstatic912 New York, NYPosts: 365Member
    Originally posted by William12

    If you really believe they only have 200k players left you're biased and dillusional.  Does it have 1.3 mil ?  No way but 200k ?   Ill take the middle and bet around 500-600k.

    Also 1-1.3 mil, i think its world wide.. Not just US.

     

    So while there might be 200-400k in the US, other regions make up the bulk, which is similar to WOW... Ea has also stated the game is more popular in Europe than the US..

     

    But thats what happen when there is so much servers, the population get spread out a great deal... Then when a MMO active player population falls off, you got crickets on most servers...

     

    NOTE to new games launching, do not release alot of servers all at once but increase the cap that the server can take... SWTOR expanded too fast to please the crowd not it backfires with dead servers and make to make it worse server xfer should have been a day one feature... 

     

    LOL so cool to see the server i picked @ launch... at the top, HAIL ``THE FATMAN``... 

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Moaky07

    No but you, and others like you keep putting forth the idea the game is dead n buried, and yet it isnt the case.

     

    When we keep getting new things either thru our subs, or the F2P route if it ever comes to that, are you going to keep insisting the game is in maintenance mode yrs from now?

     

    I have a feeling some of you haters will be perma camped on this forum, and crying wolf until you are forced to leave. It is painfully obvious you wont of your own accord, and these troll posts, such as in the OP, are going to continue.

    Future of SWTOR is very, very gray.

    If things dont improve drastically it wont be pretty, even WHO scenario is not unlikely to happen. Or FTP, or some other kind of reset.

    What i know is: if i was player looking for MMO right now i would not pick SWTOR, with all the stuff that is going on. EA screwed up on PR, but my guess is that they did it because of investors, but it sure doesnt sound encouraging as a customer.
     

    Oh, and your "math" is wrong.

    Originally posted by Sameer1979

    Report button is your friend, i am pretty sure he is posting on multiple accounts.

    Will you report yourself if it isnt true? Leave this to moderators, you are not one of them.

    Originally posted by Xstatic912

    Also 1-1.3 mil, i think its world wide.. Not just US.

     

    So while there might be 200-400k in the US, other regions make up the bulk, which is similar to WOW... Ea has also stated the game is more popular in Europe than the US..

     

    But thats what happen when there is so much servers, the population get spread out a great deal... Then when a MMO active player population falls off, you got crickets on most servers...

     

    NOTE to new games launching, do not release alot of servers all at once but increase the cap that the server can take... SWTOR expanded too fast to please the crowd not it backfires with dead servers and make to make it worse server xfer should have been a day one feature... 

     

    LOL so cool to see the server i picked @ launch... at the top, HAIL ``THE FATMAN``...

    Below 500k. And since they sacked half of the staff, which probably slowed overall development, they may need less than 500k now.

    And they released that many servers because they expected WoW numbers, not because few people whined on the forums.

    Talking about missing th target ;P

     

  • RingbusRingbus None, CAPosts: 36Member
    Originally posted by Moaky07 

    Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.

     

    4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.

     

    That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.

     

    I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.

     

     

     

    What is so bizarre about these crazy and insane numbers you are posting isn't just how far off in fantasyland they are but the fact that even a moments thought into comparing what you are claiming to other game companies and games would make it obvious just how hilariously absurd they are.

    No one, not EA, not any game company, is making 100 million dollars off two million or so game sales. Not anywhere close to those numbers.

     

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by Ringbus
    Originally posted by Moaky07 

    Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.

     

    4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.

     

    That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.

     

    I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.

     

     

     

    What is so bizarre about these crazy and insane numbers you are posting isn't just how far off in fantasyland they are but the fact that even a moments thought into comparing what you are claiming to other game companies and games would make it obvious just how hilariously absurd they are.

    No one, not EA, not any game company, is making 100 million dollars off two million or so game sales. Not anywhere close to those numbers.

     

    Then what would be fact all knowing swammi?

     

    I mean a legitimate estimate, not the stuff you scraped out of your ass. 2.4M boxes at 40 bucks to EA on average(which I explained the number) is 100M(96 to be technical). 15 bucks a month is 15 bucks a month....4 months counted since some got 5th free. 1.3M average for those months since we started at 1.7M, and going with the game followed the same trend.

     

    The math is right. The folks refusing to wrap their head around it.....not so much.

     

    The game has either already made back the initial investment of 150-200M, or it is damn close.

     

     

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    [mod edit]

    If you were to judge by these forums WoW would be the most unpopular MMORPG ever created. SWG would be the most popular sandbox game ever with a huge thriving population that only got shut down because of ToR and GW2 would be developed by Jesus Christ himself.

  • ZippyZippy NY, NYPosts: 1,412Member
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    Originally posted by Ringbus
    Originally posted by Moaky07 

    Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.

     

    4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.

     

    That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.

     

    I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.

     

     

     

    What is so bizarre about these crazy and insane numbers you are posting isn't just how far off in fantasyland they are but the fact that even a moments thought into comparing what you are claiming to other game companies and games would make it obvious just how hilariously absurd they are.

    No one, not EA, not any game company, is making 100 million dollars off two million or so game sales. Not anywhere close to those numbers.

     

    Then what would be fact all knowing swammi?

     

    I mean a legitimate estimate, not the stuff you scraped out of your ass. 2.4M boxes at 40 bucks to EA on average(which I explained the number) is 100M(96 to be technical). 15 bucks a month is 15 bucks a month....4 months counted since some got 5th free. 1.3M average for those months since we started at 1.7M, and going with the game followed the same trend.

     

    The math is right. The folks refusing to wrap their head around it.....not so much.

     

    The game has either already made back the initial investment of 150-200M, or it is damn close.

     

     


    On average a developer only gets 25% of the retail sales price back.  But that % is higher now because on average over 50% of pre launch sales now are digital which BW will get a higher % back.  Most likley their average return on 2 millon boxes or 120 milion of sales would be less than  50%.  Maybe a retrun of $50 million.  Tor likely only had 1 million subs the first month.  Their sub definition hasbeen very liberal including free players and players who have not finished their first month.  a 500k sub average over 6 months would be generous.  Using a high $15 figure that would be $45 million.  Now add itheir costs of mainating the game whic is typically 50% of the amount of subs.  In recent times that number has dropped but considerr that Tor has been maintaining close to 200 servers while only having the population to run 10 servers so their average cost is likely extremely high.  Plus they have been advertising on a huge scale since release and until recently retaining a large staff trying to finish the game and save what subs they have left.  I would not be suprised if their costs have not exceeded the $45 million in revenue they have generated. BW and thier investors have lost a lot of money in this game.  With the 200k or so players they have left they are not getting that money back.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by Ringbus

     

    What is so bizarre about these crazy and insane numbers you are posting isn't just how far off in fantasyland they are but the fact that even a moments thought into comparing what you are claiming to other game companies and games would make it obvious just how hilariously absurd they are.

    No one, not EA, not any game company, is making 100 million dollars off two million or so game sales. Not anywhere close to those numbers.

     

    EA is the publisher and they get all revenue until a profit is made.

    That means $40 a box is probably low-balling. 2.4 millions copies sold so far. That means $96 million just off box copies.

    1.3 million first month subs x 12 (monthly sub fee) = 15.6 million.

    Now we don't know what subs have been the last 4 months. Let's average 500k.

    0.5 million x 12(sub fee) x 4 months = 24 million

    Which means SWTOR has brought in $135 million at least in revenue.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Mt marion, NYPosts: 1,534Member Uncommon

    Regardless of how well it is or isn't doing or where the populations stand, one thing is for sure; TOR didn't even come close to achieving all of what the hype said it would. There's a number of people who were claiming that, whether it succeeded or failed, that TOR would be a "Genre Changer". Some were right on this site.

    Wonder where those people are now? Where ever they are, I hope that crow they're eating isn't too bitter.

    In the end, as others and myself predicted, TOR hasn't changed squat.

    One thing I would have liked to see it change was how completely and ridiculously sucked into hype people let themselves get. Sadly, I don't think that's goin to change either.

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