For me I am borderline unsure. I just really hope I can find a class that is to my liking but with all else it should. I think this game will bea mega success with 3-4 million players and retention should be at least 70%.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Will all the beauty and innovation in this game be enough to ;
a) Give old time MMO fanatics a new and fresh MMO experience.
b) Hold people currently burned out on MMO´s attention for longer then 2 months.
c) Attract more and more new players after the initial release.
d) Hold peoples attention when they reach max level
e) Forget about that other game
f) Hold sanbox players attention with the WvWvW part and the DE´s in PvE
Will it be enough....
Well can't speak for everyone here of course this is very subjective so I'll answer these for myself to put my opinion out there.
a) Playing the beta weekends, it's given me a new and fresh MMO experience, I'm burned out from quest hubs, unbalanced OW PvP, and have just plainly wanted something different. I've followed GW2 for 2 years and it didn't dissapoint me.
b) I get bored of games fast, bored of D3 and Tera in the first 3 weeks. As much as I enjoy this game I really hope it holds my attention for that long, as a casual player I'm betting it will. Besides trying to finish the world 100% (as long as I'm still having fun) I want to do a lot of sPvP and WvWvW and play with some intelligent people. I think 2 months should cover that easily but can never be sure.
c) This depends on how the game fares in the first weeks, reviews will come in, the word of endgame will be passed around, it's very user friendly and has the potential to attract masses, but we'll see how it fares.
d) At level 80 I'll be striving to complete the world 100% and do a lot of WvWvW and sPvP, as a casual I think it will hold my attention at least until the expansion.
e) Yes, even more it's tough to try to play other MMOs after playing GW2 (for me)
f) Who knows, never really cared for the differences between these type of games, if the game is good and fun then that's all that should matters, not if it's a sandbox or themepark or w/e
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
d) Hold peoples attention when they reach max level
This is most important to me, and I already know the answer based on my experiences with other mmorpgs. Answer is yes, if the game has areas that are not one timers. Is there a reason for me to visit the visited areas, or do I have only a few designated end-game areas for max level?
My biggest problem with TOR and tbh most MMORPGs lately have been the one-timer open worlds, areas that become completely useless after I've "completed" them. When will devs realize that open worlds are not supposed to be completed like some singleplayer games, it defeats the whole damn purpose no?
Uh, that were a lot of color in a single post for me. Ill answer here one by one.
My answers in white.
First of all, you quoted all the stuff as if i wrote it, but i didn't post the first paragraph you answer to, so i will skip that one and stick to answer my own ones.
Guess what, many people like the progression and the trinity (AKA Tank-Healer-DPS/CC roles). So its not an "improvement" or "innovation" so far, just a change, and not welcome by everyone.
Guess what? Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and raid progression. That's the main reason Guild Wars 2 can actually aim at people who hate MMOs not only MMO veterans. I guess you didn't think of that.
Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and progression? Ok, first let me tell you that trinity or specific roles gives a great chance of strategy and specialization, which makes raid encounters difficult and complex as positioning, timing and roles are something basic to have in mind and master, not only by the RL but the whole guild (since one mistake can be fatal) if you want to succeed. That might appeal to almost everyone, everyone that likes to play with a minimum degree of quality.
Now do not misunderstand me, there is strategy too in GW2 specially in PVP tournaments. Certainly the classes need specific traits and whatnot to complement each other for max effectivity, condition removal, blablabla... Good. But let's be real, besides that is quite chaotic. I have experienced WvWvW and sPVP a lot, not dungeons/boss encounters yet, but the voice in the street is that are quite "strategyless". Certainly DEs are VERY chaotic.
On a different note, yes I didn't think about that, what do you mean by "people that hate MMOs", i dont get it, so i will wait your explanation for answering that.
It doesn't matter how much you want to mask it (or just can't see it), actually GW2 doesn't have really anything new by itself, it takes from another games like EVERY OTHER GAME HAS DONE IN THE LAST 12 YEARS, so IMO your argument is invalid. No big deal.
Alright apart from the above WvWvW, DEs and the Trinity, that I already explained why they are superior to anything done in previous games, and quite different, let's see some more features. I'll start with the more obvious.
Server system, you can play on any server you want, whenever you want. Overflow system, you don't have to stay in a queue to login. All characters on one server and can communicate with each other. Guilds have members from multiple servers, Guilds level up by using influence which is gained by working as a guild and participating in guild events.
Oh, I can play my... let's say, ranger 40 from Sea of Sorrows in other server where I got a couple friends to aid them in a WvWvW? If its true is quite cool, didn't know that, +1 for you.
Overflow, Tera already have done it, even better when you can choose the "Channel" and still stay with your friends in the same "World".
Guild leveling up and stuff via quests, activities, etc. Tera has already done it, and yet again better since different regions can be ruled by guilds, controlling the vendors, taxes, prices, etc...
Active combat system that blends action MMOs and traditional MMOs. Dodging. A completely different Weapon skill system, utility system, elite system. A different way of progressing your skills, a different way of acquiring new skills. Combat without chances, there is no 20% block and 10% evade, when you are hit you take damage. Great build potential with the trait system, lots of customization. Skill combos offer more options for organized play and good teamwork
Active combat system... Tera has done it. Now if you want to know my opinion, Tera system is better with ONE flaw, the pauses in the combat abilities, and this is a plus in GW2, anyway, Tera has developed combat action first, and before Tera, others.
Weapon skill system, I dont think it was the first MMO implementing this, but actually i hear more people hating it that loving it.
A different way to progress, acquire your skills? What do you mean exactly? That i have to kill 4 kobolds to get my next skill in the weapon I've used? Sorry not sure if you were meaning that but if you did... mmh... not new and just the same thing than "get X skill at lvl Y" but with a progression bar.
Combat without chances, no block and evade? Innovative as hell.
Trait system... new? C'mon man... Take a look at EQ1 with more than 2,000 different "traits" (Alternate Advancement), or Rift with different souls combination... way more complete/deep.
Skill combos opening options? Please see Vanguard.
No kill10rats quests, no quest chains, no quest markers, no quest prerequisities. All players can participate in all events and be rewarding without the requirement of being on the exact quest, or chain part. There is no kill stealing or mob tagging. Players work together without the need for LFG, or looking for healers/tanks.
No kill 10 rats quest. Kill 30 kobolds and dont put a name but a progression bar, blindly innovative.
No quest chains... Man how i miss epic quests...
No quest markers. Hearts galore anyone?
Quest prerequisites and all players participating and getting rewards, Rift and WAR?
No kill stealing, mob tagging (man i loved those) - see above.
Players work together without LFG - Ok, 70 mobs clustered, I AoE 1 time with my elementalist, and get same or more credit than the melee working his ass off? Coolage.
Exploring rewards xp and Tyria is a wonderful place to explore. The POIs and the hidden dynamic quests, the jumping puzzles, with deadly traps, make the game perfect for explorers, which game offers so much for true exploration? Develing so content isn't trivial if you go back.
Wonderful place to explore. Agree, but not an improvement, and have seen better.
POIs and hidden quests. Older than me (nah i am not that old).
Jumping puzzles, deadly traps, perfect game for explorers. See Vanguard, see Rift, and way better.
What game offers more for exploration? Rift by far (collectibles, chests), and every single damn game that had RARE NAMEDS (God how much i miss that too) hidden and spawning rarely in remote areas with rare/valuable loot.
Deleveling - Talk about killing immersion, anyway nothing new again.
Waypoint system for fast traveling from wherever, inventory system that allows people to send mats back to their storage from wherever they are, mail system from anywhere, underwater combat. The "Downed" system that allows players to rez anyone, dead and downed players appear on the map.
Waypoint n stuff, more suitable for single player games imo... but if you like it, more power for you, nothing new tho.
Inventory/mail system that blabla... Another big immersion killer, refer above.
Underwater combat, man, again, is it anything new?
Competitive PVP where the most skillful player wins and item/level/numbers don't decide the winner.
Ok this is true, eliminating the gear as a big stat/effect booster do balance things.
I'm sick of repeating all those, all should've been obvious after a single hour of playing.
Pls I told you not to mention that, actually I dont think you have more /played that me in GW2, anyway let's not keep going that way.
I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me but some posts are obvious troll posts, I'm not refering to yours obviously.
No, as you said wasn't my intention to troll, just to let you know that GW2 doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and that even tho looks like I wanted to "counter" all your post, I just wanted to explain you why some people (not the trolls) cannot stand hearing that GW2 is that innovative.
To finish, my friend, I will tell you that indeed I like GW2, but in my personal opinion, playing GW2 feels kind of like playing Counter Strike... Only your cosmetic gear, name and rank to ePeen around... On a more serious note, what i mean is that, mh... Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months, or completing the last step of your epic quest have been the best MMO moments in my life and, sadly, there will be nothing like that in GW2.
Guess EQNext thats it hehe. Anyway I will be playing GW2 (obviously pre-purchased it already) for a while on and off, I hope I can find a good PVP competitive guild.
Will all the beauty and innovation in this game be enough to ;
a) Give old time MMO fanatics a new and fresh MMO experience.
b) Hold people currently burned out on MMO´s attention for longer then 2 months.
c) Attract more and more new players after the initial release.
d) Hold peoples attention when they reach max level
e) Forget about that other game
f) Hold sanbox players attention with the WvWvW part and the DE´s in PvE
Will it be enough....
Yes to everything except "f" because its not really a sandbox like some of the future games (the kickstarter ones and ArcheAge) but thats fine because I will get my sandbox fix from these games
Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months,
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months,
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months,
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
It's funny, you put a veiled insult in your reply, and then go on to say "to each his own". Do you mean to each his own as long as they agree with you? Because that's what it sounds like. Plenty of gamers have been playing MMOs for a long time and have grown tired of what you apparently find enjoyable. I don't want easy, I don't want spoonfed, I don't need casual...but I definitely do not want a gear grind and sitting at my computer all night waiting for some "ultra-rare mob" to spawn so I can get some epic lewt.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
To Etherloth: Look, it wasn't games that were good, okay? It was you. You were at that magical time in your life called "childhood" when everything feels better. I know, I were there too; why, those endless macroses I've built for text-based MUDs, allowing me to, say, drop the weapon, stand up, get the scroll of recall out of my backpack and read it before the final hit will kill my character - full loss of everything, experience damage, you could lose a level... Ah, those there the times...
Don't "new player" me, young man. I'm likely older than you, and I was playing multiplayer games since the time of first text-based MUDs, and before that I've played multi-player games on Bulletin Board Systems through the night, listening to modem screaming at amazing 2400 boud or whatever it was. So don't start that "old player" routine on me; I was there, I went through all of it all the way, and all this nostalgy is full of sh...
Will all the beauty and innovation in this game be enough to ;
a) Give old time MMO fanatics a new and fresh MMO experience.
b) Hold people currently burned out on MMO´s attention for longer then 2 months.
c) Attract more and more new players after the initial release.
d) Hold peoples attention when they reach max level
e) Forget about that other game
f) Hold sanbox players attention with the WvWvW part and the DE´s in PvE
Will it be enough....
1. I am and have been for many years a MMO fanatic.
2. I have been burned out with MMO's and have felt burned out with recent releases because they feel just like all other games from the past.
3. C = Time will tell but most likely it will attract more once a lot more people start playing upon launch.
4. Personally I know exactly what the game offers once I reach max level.
5. I currently don't plan on playing any of the games currently in BETA or released, I've tried and they don't cut the mustard.
(One has "different", not better, but different combat mechanics but has nothering else to offer. Another game has an amazing world and completely unique lore but combat and animations are horrific..)
6. I'm a big time sandboxy player.
So being that nearly all of those examples you gave question too fit me I can answer this: Yes!
I personally do enough research into a game to know exactly what to expect from a game. I do so because I've seen games or players claim one thing or another about a game and it actually is nothing like what they stated. So yes if someone is realistic in with what they expect from Guild Wars 2 it offers everything you will love bout an MMORPG and has taken out all the things that piss off most players.
So again to answer all but one of your questions: YES and to the one we can't answer = Time Will Tell but most likely YES.
I've played most high-hyped MMORPGs before Guild Wars 2, Warhammer, Lotro, Aion and GW2 is almost completely different. The sooner people understand that, the better. They have so little in common that it is not even funny to compare them. Of course those who actually played the game know this. Those who didn't write nonsense on internet forums. Oh well trolls will be trolls
Im a 3 years war veteran, played all the 2 gw2 BW. GW2 is literally a copy and paste of warhammer, thats out of discussion. I can even make you a list, but it wont change anything some people really believe that the game is ïnnovative¨ and dont really matter how wrong they are or how hard you try to argue with them, they just choose to live in a lie.
Warhammer is nothing like GW2.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Will all the beauty and innovation in this game be enough to ; a) Give old time MMO fanatics a new and fresh MMO experience.b) Hold people currently burned out on MMO´s attention for longer then 2 months.c) Attract more and more new players after the initial release.d) Hold peoples attention when they reach max levele) Forget about that other gamef) Hold sanbox players attention with the WvWvW part and the DE´s in PvE Will it be enough....
I think it will be a perfect fit for more than enough people. Anet has a winning formula. For some people, it will hit all of your points. For others, maybe one or two. But all you really need is one reason to play a video game.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months,
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
Sorry, but what exactly is challenging in raids or camping for a mobs spawn? The only thign challenging abut raid content is that you have to gather x people in one spot at same time, but that's hardly in-game challenge...
And raiding for month to get single armor? That's supposed ot be challenging? It's more of endurance test or rather time sink.
I've seen singleplayer games that are more challenging than majority of raid encounters in MMOs, because in singleplayer there is no one to carry you through.
It has nothing to do with "casual" or "spoonfed" experience. It has all to do with not forcing players to sit 12h a day to achieve something or to take part in the "fun" part of the game.
Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months,
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
It's funny, you put a veiled insult in your reply, and then go on to say "to each his own". Do you mean to each his own as long as they agree with you? Because that's what it sounds like. Plenty of gamers have been playing MMOs for a long time and have grown tired of what you apparently find enjoyable. I don't want easy, I don't want spoonfed, I don't need casual...but I definitely do not want a gear grind and sitting at my computer all night waiting for some "ultra-rare mob" to spawn so I can get some epic lewt.
Certainly you can interpret messages as you wish, hence the minimum reading comprehension you must have in order to be intelligent enough to type in a keyboard and answer a post.
But no, i wasn't meaning to insult anyone, if that is what you got is not my problem tho.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
To Etherloth: Look, it wasn't games that were good, okay? It was you. You were at that magical time in your life called "childhood" when everything feels better. I know, I were there too; why, those endless macroses I've built for text-based MUDs, allowing me to, say, drop the weapon, stand up, get the scroll of recall out of my backpack and read it before the final hit will kill my character - full loss of everything, experience damage, you could lose a level... Ah, those there the times...
Don't "new player" me, young man. I'm likely older than you, and I was playing multiplayer games since the time of first text-based MUDs, and before that I've played multi-player games on Bulletin Board Systems through the night, listening to modem screaming at amazing 2400 boud or whatever it was. So don't start that "old player" routine on me; I was there, I went through all of it all the way, and all this nostalgy is full of sh...
P.S. and git off my lawn! *shakes hand at cloud*
Well, I dont know who of us is older, and not that it matters really. If you were playing RPGs on bulletin boards, then you must have more experience than me, since i didn't get to that point on online games, pen and paper DnD is another story tho.
Anyway and besides the experience competition which I was not meant to start, I am aware that nostalgy has an important role on all this, not because I was in my childhood at EQ time, because unfortunately I was not, but becaus simply was my first 3D MMORPG ever, and like first love... well you know...
Now things changed a lot in my life and probably in a game like EQ i couldnt get to the top of my server as I did back in the time, i am aware of that, anyway I miss MMORPGs that actually make you fight for what you want.
Again, to each its own. Hope this time is better understood.
I've played most high-hyped MMORPGs before Guild Wars 2, Warhammer, Lotro, Aion and GW2 is almost completely different. The sooner people understand that, the better. They have so little in common that it is not even funny to compare them. Of course those who actually played the game know this. Those who didn't write nonsense on internet forums. Oh well trolls will be trolls
Im a 3 years war veteran, played all the 2 gw2 BW. GW2 is literally a copy and paste of warhammer, thats out of discussion. I can even make you a list, but it wont change anything some people really believe that the game is ïnnovative¨ and dont really matter how wrong they are or how hard you try to argue with them, they just choose to live in a lie.
Warhammer is nothing like GW2.
when you see some guys saying GW2 is a WoW clone (warhammer / LOTRO / Aion / Rift / SWTOR...this are all WoW based games with some few inovation thing) just forget.
we know the game have nothing to do with any WoW clone so dont bother with those guys...
First of all, you quoted all the stuff as if i wrote it, but i didn't post the first paragraph you answer to, so i will skip that one and stick to answer my own ones.
I quoted a post that addressed a similar issue to yours and I revoked all the "like war" comments easily. I see we agree it's nothing like War.
Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and progression? Ok, first let me tell you that trinity or specific roles gives a great chance of strategy and specialization, which makes raid encounters difficult and complex as positioning, timing and roles are something basic to have in mind and master, not only by the RL but the whole guild (since one mistake can be fatal) if you want to succeed. That might appeal to almost everyone, everyone that likes to play with a minimum degree of quality.
One mistake can be fatal in a no-trinity system as well. One player can make the difference in the no-trinity if he is skilled enough. Party combinations and proper positioning are far more important in GW2 than in trinity games. You have to master your prof and play actively not passively. Not to mention you eliminate the need for LFG
Now do not misunderstand me, there is strategy too in GW2 specially in PVP tournaments. Certainly the classes need specific traits and whatnot to complement each other for max effectivity, condition removal, blablabla... Good. But let's be real, besides that is quite chaotic. I have experienced WvWvW and sPVP a lot, not dungeons/boss encounters yet, but the voice in the street is that are quite "strategyless". Certainly DEs are VERY chaotic.
There is strategy in PVE as well even if can't grasp it yet. At least the kind of strategy you don't see in MMORPG games but certainly in other games when proper teamwork win and not some "build". Skill > build anyway.
On a different note, yes I didn't think about that, what do you mean by "people that hate MMOs", i dont get it, so i will wait your explanation for answering that.
Why would anyone hate an MMO? Various reasons, but features like the holy trinity, raiding, grinding are on the top of the list. Certainly something not found in single player RPGs (or at least you have access to the whole team)
Oh, I can play my... let's say, ranger 40 from Sea of Sorrows in other server where I got a couple friends to aid them in a WvWvW? If its true is quite cool, didn't know that, +1 for you.
Nope you can't participate in WvWvW on another server but you can participate in PVE for another server. The reason is rather simple, WvWvW offers rewards that are server based, it makes sense people who play for their server are actually rewarded for it. And to prevent server-hoping of course. You can always PVE with your friends anywhere you want, if you want to WvWvW, pick a server that's natural as to how the gametype is played.
Overflow, Tera already have done it, even better when you can choose the "Channel" and still stay with your friends in the same "World".
You can "port" to where your friends are in GW2 just right click on their names. Also in BWE2 there was no bug like in BWE1 where party members appeared on different servers, others on the original and others on overflow, the system ports the party in the overflow if the main is full. I don't understand what Tera "did" they still have login queues. There are no queues in GW2. The only games without them are GW1 and EVE.
Guild leveling up and stuff via quests, activities, etc. Tera has already done it, and yet again better since different regions can be ruled by guilds, controlling the vendors, taxes, prices, etc...
Guilds don't level up by doing quests, they level up by using Influence, it is gained by the Guild playing together, not individual players farming for xp. Guild leveling existed in other games, only in GW2 you level by actually playing as a guild not as individuals. Also there is a whole system of upgrades, I guess guild upgrades exist in lots of games but still the influence gain was different, and the upgrades as well. As for the rest, GW2 doesn't (and thank god) have any kind of open PVP so controlling regions would've been pointless. Not to mention it would be against the lore.
Active combat system... Tera has done it. Now if you want to know my opinion, Tera system is better with ONE flaw, the pauses in the combat abilities, and this is a plus in GW2, anyway, Tera has developed combat action first, and before Tera, others.
If you want my opinion GW2 system is better. Others did it before, but GW2 blends two different styles of gameplay perfectly. Reread what I posted for the reason why....
Weapon skill system, I dont think it was the first MMO implementing this, but actually i hear more people hating it that loving it.
Actually I hear more people loving it than hating it. It's strange isn't it? The weapon system was done in sandbox games but you didn't get new skills by using your weapons, you got higher level (like in the TES series) as I said above with the combat system, GW2 offers a perfect mix. Tera only has the actual moving/attacking in combat, GW2 has everything.
A different way to progress, acquire your skills? What do you mean exactly? That i have to kill 4 kobolds to get my next skill in the weapon I've used? Sorry not sure if you were meaning that but if you did... mmh... not new and just the same thing than "get X skill at lvl Y" but with a progression bar.
First you level up your weapon skills by actually playing the game. You don't just fill a bar and then go get skills. There is a reason why people love the skill leveleing in TES games, and that same leveling applies in GW2, only you don't just get more damage but you get new skills.
You get utility skills by doing skill challenges and then, although there are 3 tiers, you have more choice since the game doesn't hand you your next skills just when you level up. You might reach 80 and be a worthless addition to any party because you didn't unlock enough skills. Simple minded leveling is not enough in GW2.
Combat without chances, no block and evade? Innovative as hell.
Have you seen a skill-based game without chances? Don't twist what I write and only take what you want to suit your fantasy.
Trait system... new? C'mon man... Take a look at EQ1 with more than 2,000 different "traits" (Alternate Advancement), or Rift with different souls combination... way more complete/deep.
No Rift advancement wasn't as Deep as in GW2. Again you are taking only part of the whole. The WHOLE system of GW2 is far more complex than Rift. The trait system is a nice addition over it.
Skill combos opening options? Please see Vanguard.
I didn't like what I see in Vanguard so I stayed away. Can't comment on their connection. I bet they are different for various reasons but I can't start playing every game, I answered above and revoked all other comments, I'll leave this one for those who played Vanguard.
No kill 10 rats quest. Kill 30 kobolds and dont put a name but a progression bar, blindly innovative.
Forgive me if I ask... did you play the game? As in actually playing it not roaming around killing random mobs? What kind of nonsense is this? There are NO kill 10 rats or 30 kobolds quests, find me one and then we can talk. There are NO kill 10 rats in GW2. How a regular kill 10 rats would've been in GW2:
The npc might say: Look we have a rat infestation can you help? Obviously if we are talking about hearts, there is no need to actually talk to them. Then players are rewarded for helping with the rat problem, not by killing a fixed amount of rats so the next player can kill them too after they respawn. That might include placing traps, moving around cheese, fixing the broken items around (That the rats damaged) etc.
Also in DEs you don't have to kill 10 rats either. And when you "have" it's a whole army and you must join forces with others to achieve anything. Add the fact that they appear dynamicaly, that there is no silly kill stealing etc and you have a pretty innovative "quest system"
No quest chains... Man how i miss epic quests...
There is the Personal Story and of course the Branching DEs that feel more epic than any storyline, you know you actually help the world and your changes stay instead of just resetting for the next player. Innovation again.
No quest markers. Hearts galore anyone?
You don't have to talk to anyone to get a quest. Either a DE or a Heart. When a village is attacked by bandits you defend the village. In other games you don't because "you didn't have the right quest yet"
In other games you enter a dungeon and see your friends freeing the prisoners and you can't because it's an epic quest line and you are not on the proper part (have to kill 10 rats and deliver some letters first)
In other games you kill the boss while you are exploring but get nothing because before getting the quest to kill the goblin king you must first kill 10 goblins, then 10 more lieutenants, then 10 elites and then the king.
Again, innovation in GW2
Quest prerequisites and all players participating and getting rewards, Rift and WAR?
Prerequisities see above. War PQs reset without anyone doing anything, they don't affect the world in any way. Rifts again are not as imaginitive and immersive as DEs are. Also, Rift and War didn't have only this system, they also feature "regular trash quests". Guild Wars 2 offers everything with this system. Expands the system and makes it perfect. It has it's roots in War/Rift but it's not the same, not even close.
No kill stealing, mob tagging (man i loved those) - see above.
See above.... also I hated them.
Players work together without LFG - Ok, 70 mobs clustered, I AoE 1 time with my elementalist, and get same or more credit than the melee working his ass off? Coolage.
Aoe affects 5 mobs. Or maybe you want to play a prof stay far away and do nothing while your friends kill and you get the xp? Is this your type?
Rift by far (collectibles, chests), and every single damn game that had RARE NAMEDS (God how much i miss that too) hidden and spawning rarely in remote areas with rare/valuable loot.
There are boss mobs after jumping puzzles. There is a nice variety in traps, there are lots of "riddles", and of course you got to use your brain. You do get xp/karma when you finish them. And the experience is awesome by itself. Better than Rift at least.
Deleveling - Talk about killing immersion, anyway nothing new again.
Huh? How many games have deleving? How does it kill immersion? Because I can't go back to the old areas and 1-shot everything? What kills immersion is the "leveling" system in all RPGs. But at least in GW2 they made sure there is lots to do and it is fun to explore old areas. And of course there is the challenge to explorers. See above.
Waypoint n stuff, more suitable for single player games imo... but if you like it, more power for you, nothing new tho.
Well it is pretty new. Only other game that has something similar is GW1. Still they are not the same.
Inventory/mail system that blabla... Another big immersion killer, refer above.
While sending a piece of armor through email and then your target takes it from a mailbox is in any way immersive? You have a strange idea of immersive.
Underwater combat, man, again, is it anything new?
Is it not?
Ok this is true, eliminating the gear as a big stat/effect booster do balance things.
I'm glad we agree on this.
Pls I told you not to mention that, actually I dont think you have more /played that me in GW2, anyway let's not keep going that way.
Why not? It appears you don't know what you are saying? Anyway I tried to reply again revoking everything you said. I'll wait for an anser although as I see it you are so stuck on the "it's the same, it's done before" that nothing can convince, even if god (if he played GW2) told you.
No, as you said wasn't my intention to troll, just to let you know that GW2 doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and that even tho looks like I wanted to "counter" all your post, I just wanted to explain you why some people (not the trolls) cannot stand hearing that GW2 is that innovative.
To sum it up: It's like saying a Ferrari and a Fiat are similar because they are both cars. Because this is exactly the difference in GW2 and the rest.
I won't argue again, they are both cars....
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Sorry, but what exactly is challenging in raids or camping for a mobs spawn? The only thign challenging abut raid content is that you have to gather x people in one spot at same time, but that's hardly in-game challenge...
And raiding for month to get single armor? That's supposed ot be challenging? It's more of endurance test or rather time sink.
I've seen singleplayer games that are more challenging than majority of raid encounters in MMOs, because in singleplayer there is no one to carry you through.
It has nothing to do with "casual" or "spoonfed" experience. It has all to do with not forcing players to sit 12h a day to achieve something or to take part in the "fun" part of the game.
Allow me to explain,
Challenge in camping a rare spawn consist firstly in the nature of the proper spawn, being rare, plus the aggresive competition in order to get mentioned spawn. Even more if you consider that in those games, mob tagging and killstealing were used by some people.
Regarding raids, I wonder what kind of game have you played to say that all you need is to gather people. If you want to experience real raiding i suggest you to try some other options in the market that have actual challenging, strategy-required raiding for best understanding.
I haven't seen any singleplayer game that has more difficulty since raiding in the games i am talking about require extreme coordination and teamwork, expertise and class knowledge if you want to succeed. If you ever have been RL trying to coordinate 120+ people to do a Coirnav or Rathe Council raid in Everquest you knew what I mean. The reason I mention this ecounters is so you can take a look online (I guess still must be around) for the required strategy in order to solve those, again so you can understand what I say.
About your last paragraph, I understand, and as I said, GW2 is a great game for casual playing IMO.
Comments
For me I am borderline unsure. I just really hope I can find a class that is to my liking but with all else it should. I think this game will bea mega success with 3-4 million players and retention should be at least 70%.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Well can't speak for everyone here of course this is very subjective so I'll answer these for myself to put my opinion out there.
a) Playing the beta weekends, it's given me a new and fresh MMO experience, I'm burned out from quest hubs, unbalanced OW PvP, and have just plainly wanted something different. I've followed GW2 for 2 years and it didn't dissapoint me.
b) I get bored of games fast, bored of D3 and Tera in the first 3 weeks. As much as I enjoy this game I really hope it holds my attention for that long, as a casual player I'm betting it will. Besides trying to finish the world 100% (as long as I'm still having fun) I want to do a lot of sPvP and WvWvW and play with some intelligent people. I think 2 months should cover that easily but can never be sure.
c) This depends on how the game fares in the first weeks, reviews will come in, the word of endgame will be passed around, it's very user friendly and has the potential to attract masses, but we'll see how it fares.
d) At level 80 I'll be striving to complete the world 100% and do a lot of WvWvW and sPvP, as a casual I think it will hold my attention at least until the expansion.
e) Yes, even more it's tough to try to play other MMOs after playing GW2 (for me)
f) Who knows, never really cared for the differences between these type of games, if the game is good and fun then that's all that should matters, not if it's a sandbox or themepark or w/e
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
No, for me.
I'm sure many will find it apealing for at ime, but most will move on.
This is most important to me, and I already know the answer based on my experiences with other mmorpgs. Answer is yes, if the game has areas that are not one timers. Is there a reason for me to visit the visited areas, or do I have only a few designated end-game areas for max level?
My biggest problem with TOR and tbh most MMORPGs lately have been the one-timer open worlds, areas that become completely useless after I've "completed" them. When will devs realize that open worlds are not supposed to be completed like some singleplayer games, it defeats the whole damn purpose no?
Since there is no subscription fee, are these questions relevant?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
the big problem is Everyone is sayin Gw2 = War, or has this from WoW and that from from DDo, ....
Start seeing games has one and don't compare for once, login next time and play without thinking , what is bad about it and what is good.
just play and see if you enjoy it. thats what i do
and it made me enjoy mmo's again. 
i would agree if not for the fact gw 1 nuff said honestly
Uh, that were a lot of color in a single post for me. Ill answer here one by one.
My answers in white.
First of all, you quoted all the stuff as if i wrote it, but i didn't post the first paragraph you answer to, so i will skip that one and stick to answer my own ones.
Guess what, many people like the progression and the trinity (AKA Tank-Healer-DPS/CC roles). So its not an "improvement" or "innovation" so far, just a change, and not welcome by everyone.
Guess what? Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and raid progression. That's the main reason Guild Wars 2 can actually aim at people who hate MMOs not only MMO veterans. I guess you didn't think of that.
Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and progression? Ok, first let me tell you that trinity or specific roles gives a great chance of strategy and specialization, which makes raid encounters difficult and complex as positioning, timing and roles are something basic to have in mind and master, not only by the RL but the whole guild (since one mistake can be fatal) if you want to succeed. That might appeal to almost everyone, everyone that likes to play with a minimum degree of quality.
Now do not misunderstand me, there is strategy too in GW2 specially in PVP tournaments. Certainly the classes need specific traits and whatnot to complement each other for max effectivity, condition removal, blablabla... Good. But let's be real, besides that is quite chaotic. I have experienced WvWvW and sPVP a lot, not dungeons/boss encounters yet, but the voice in the street is that are quite "strategyless". Certainly DEs are VERY chaotic.
On a different note, yes I didn't think about that, what do you mean by "people that hate MMOs", i dont get it, so i will wait your explanation for answering that.
It doesn't matter how much you want to mask it (or just can't see it), actually GW2 doesn't have really anything new by itself, it takes from another games like EVERY OTHER GAME HAS DONE IN THE LAST 12 YEARS, so IMO your argument is invalid. No big deal.
Alright apart from the above WvWvW, DEs and the Trinity, that I already explained why they are superior to anything done in previous games, and quite different, let's see some more features. I'll start with the more obvious.
Server system, you can play on any server you want, whenever you want. Overflow system, you don't have to stay in a queue to login. All characters on one server and can communicate with each other. Guilds have members from multiple servers, Guilds level up by using influence which is gained by working as a guild and participating in guild events.
Oh, I can play my... let's say, ranger 40 from Sea of Sorrows in other server where I got a couple friends to aid them in a WvWvW? If its true is quite cool, didn't know that, +1 for you.
Overflow, Tera already have done it, even better when you can choose the "Channel" and still stay with your friends in the same "World".
Guild leveling up and stuff via quests, activities, etc. Tera has already done it, and yet again better since different regions can be ruled by guilds, controlling the vendors, taxes, prices, etc...
Active combat system that blends action MMOs and traditional MMOs. Dodging. A completely different Weapon skill system, utility system, elite system. A different way of progressing your skills, a different way of acquiring new skills. Combat without chances, there is no 20% block and 10% evade, when you are hit you take damage. Great build potential with the trait system, lots of customization. Skill combos offer more options for organized play and good teamwork
Active combat system... Tera has done it. Now if you want to know my opinion, Tera system is better with ONE flaw, the pauses in the combat abilities, and this is a plus in GW2, anyway, Tera has developed combat action first, and before Tera, others.
Weapon skill system, I dont think it was the first MMO implementing this, but actually i hear more people hating it that loving it.
A different way to progress, acquire your skills? What do you mean exactly? That i have to kill 4 kobolds to get my next skill in the weapon I've used? Sorry not sure if you were meaning that but if you did... mmh... not new and just the same thing than "get X skill at lvl Y" but with a progression bar.
Combat without chances, no block and evade? Innovative as hell.
Trait system... new? C'mon man... Take a look at EQ1 with more than 2,000 different "traits" (Alternate Advancement), or Rift with different souls combination... way more complete/deep.
Skill combos opening options? Please see Vanguard.
No kill10rats quests, no quest chains, no quest markers, no quest prerequisities. All players can participate in all events and be rewarding without the requirement of being on the exact quest, or chain part. There is no kill stealing or mob tagging. Players work together without the need for LFG, or looking for healers/tanks.
No kill 10 rats quest. Kill 30 kobolds and dont put a name but a progression bar, blindly innovative.
No quest chains... Man how i miss epic quests...
No quest markers. Hearts galore anyone?
Quest prerequisites and all players participating and getting rewards, Rift and WAR?
No kill stealing, mob tagging (man i loved those) - see above.
Players work together without LFG - Ok, 70 mobs clustered, I AoE 1 time with my elementalist, and get same or more credit than the melee working his ass off? Coolage.
Exploring rewards xp and Tyria is a wonderful place to explore. The POIs and the hidden dynamic quests, the jumping puzzles, with deadly traps, make the game perfect for explorers, which game offers so much for true exploration? Develing so content isn't trivial if you go back.
Wonderful place to explore. Agree, but not an improvement, and have seen better.
POIs and hidden quests. Older than me (nah i am not that old).
Jumping puzzles, deadly traps, perfect game for explorers. See Vanguard, see Rift, and way better.
What game offers more for exploration? Rift by far (collectibles, chests), and every single damn game that had RARE NAMEDS (God how much i miss that too) hidden and spawning rarely in remote areas with rare/valuable loot.
Deleveling - Talk about killing immersion, anyway nothing new again.
Waypoint system for fast traveling from wherever, inventory system that allows people to send mats back to their storage from wherever they are, mail system from anywhere, underwater combat. The "Downed" system that allows players to rez anyone, dead and downed players appear on the map.
Waypoint n stuff, more suitable for single player games imo... but if you like it, more power for you, nothing new tho.
Inventory/mail system that blabla... Another big immersion killer, refer above.
Underwater combat, man, again, is it anything new?
Competitive PVP where the most skillful player wins and item/level/numbers don't decide the winner.
Ok this is true, eliminating the gear as a big stat/effect booster do balance things.
I'm sick of repeating all those, all should've been obvious after a single hour of playing.
Pls I told you not to mention that, actually I dont think you have more /played that me in GW2, anyway let's not keep going that way.
I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me but some posts are obvious troll posts, I'm not refering to yours obviously.
No, as you said wasn't my intention to troll, just to let you know that GW2 doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and that even tho looks like I wanted to "counter" all your post, I just wanted to explain you why some people (not the trolls) cannot stand hearing that GW2 is that innovative.
To finish, my friend, I will tell you that indeed I like GW2, but in my personal opinion, playing GW2 feels kind of like playing Counter Strike... Only your cosmetic gear, name and rank to ePeen around... On a more serious note, what i mean is that, mh... Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months, or completing the last step of your epic quest have been the best MMO moments in my life and, sadly, there will be nothing like that in GW2.
Guess EQNext thats it hehe. Anyway I will be playing GW2 (obviously pre-purchased it already) for a while on and off, I hope I can find a good PVP competitive guild.
Intelligent answers only pls
Always!!
Eth.
Omg now that I see it, what a long a$$ post...
Good thing i paragraph-ed a lot, so you guys cannot call it WOT.
PS. I never said the game is a copy/paste of WAR, just that it takes some elements from that game.
Eth.
Yes to everything except "f" because its not really a sandbox like some of the future games (the kickstarter ones and ArcheAge) but thats fine because I will get my sandbox fix from these games
*shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
a. & b.) no, dispite how innovative the game model is when you boil it down it's not different enough for burnouts and mmo elitists.
c.) yes, and usually the learning curve accomplishes that.
d.) yes, also depends on Anet
e.) no, with no sub fee gives most an opportunity to wander.
f.) no, tough crowd, DE's are still repeatable no matter how you look at it.
my opinion, yes it will
Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest.
I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences.
I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth.
With the knowledge of todays generation who all have ADHD no after month or 2 they start whining on forums and hop to the next hyped game.
Luckly im more persistance then most and ill prolly play for couple of years i think it have ral potentie to be a very good mmo B2P.
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It's funny, you put a veiled insult in your reply, and then go on to say "to each his own". Do you mean to each his own as long as they agree with you? Because that's what it sounds like. Plenty of gamers have been playing MMOs for a long time and have grown tired of what you apparently find enjoyable. I don't want easy, I don't want spoonfed, I don't need casual...but I definitely do not want a gear grind and sitting at my computer all night waiting for some "ultra-rare mob" to spawn so I can get some epic lewt.
Sorroe, Human Mesmer
Jade Quarry Server
To Etherloth: Look, it wasn't games that were good, okay? It was you. You were at that magical time in your life called "childhood" when everything feels better. I know, I were there too; why, those endless macroses I've built for text-based MUDs, allowing me to, say, drop the weapon, stand up, get the scroll of recall out of my backpack and read it before the final hit will kill my character - full loss of everything, experience damage, you could lose a level... Ah, those there the times...
Don't "new player" me, young man. I'm likely older than you, and I was playing multiplayer games since the time of first text-based MUDs, and before that I've played multi-player games on Bulletin Board Systems through the night, listening to modem screaming at amazing 2400 boud or whatever it was. So don't start that "old player" routine on me; I was there, I went through all of it all the way, and all this nostalgy is full of sh...
P.S. and git off my lawn! *shakes hand at cloud*
1. I am and have been for many years a MMO fanatic.
2. I have been burned out with MMO's and have felt burned out with recent releases because they feel just like all other games from the past.
3. C = Time will tell but most likely it will attract more once a lot more people start playing upon launch.
4. Personally I know exactly what the game offers once I reach max level.
5. I currently don't plan on playing any of the games currently in BETA or released, I've tried and they don't cut the mustard.
(One has "different", not better, but different combat mechanics but has nothering else to offer. Another game has an amazing world and completely unique lore but combat and animations are horrific..)
6. I'm a big time sandboxy player.
So being that nearly all of those examples you gave question too fit me I can answer this: Yes!
I personally do enough research into a game to know exactly what to expect from a game. I do so because I've seen games or players claim one thing or another about a game and it actually is nothing like what they stated. So yes if someone is realistic in with what they expect from Guild Wars 2 it offers everything you will love bout an MMORPG and has taken out all the things that piss off most players.
So again to answer all but one of your questions: YES and to the one we can't answer = Time Will Tell but most likely YES.
Warhammer is nothing like GW2.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I think it will be a perfect fit for more than enough people. Anet has a winning formula. For some people, it will hit all of your points. For others, maybe one or two. But all you really need is one reason to play a video game.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Sorry, but what exactly is challenging in raids or camping for a mobs spawn? The only thign challenging abut raid content is that you have to gather x people in one spot at same time, but that's hardly in-game challenge...
And raiding for month to get single armor? That's supposed ot be challenging? It's more of endurance test or rather time sink.
I've seen singleplayer games that are more challenging than majority of raid encounters in MMOs, because in singleplayer there is no one to carry you through.
It has nothing to do with "casual" or "spoonfed" experience. It has all to do with not forcing players to sit 12h a day to achieve something or to take part in the "fun" part of the game.
Certainly you can interpret messages as you wish, hence the minimum reading comprehension you must have in order to be intelligent enough to type in a keyboard and answer a post.
But no, i wasn't meaning to insult anyone, if that is what you got is not my problem tho.
Eth.
Well, I dont know who of us is older, and not that it matters really. If you were playing RPGs on bulletin boards, then you must have more experience than me, since i didn't get to that point on online games, pen and paper DnD is another story tho.
Anyway and besides the experience competition which I was not meant to start, I am aware that nostalgy has an important role on all this, not because I was in my childhood at EQ time, because unfortunately I was not, but becaus simply was my first 3D MMORPG ever, and like first love... well you know...
Now things changed a lot in my life and probably in a game like EQ i couldnt get to the top of my server as I did back in the time, i am aware of that, anyway I miss MMORPGs that actually make you fight for what you want.
Again, to each its own. Hope this time is better understood.
PS. I liked the "young man" one
Eth.
when you see some guys saying GW2 is a WoW clone (warhammer / LOTRO / Aion / Rift / SWTOR...this are all WoW based games with some few inovation thing) just forget.
we know the game have nothing to do with any WoW clone so dont bother with those guys...
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Allow me to explain,
Challenge in camping a rare spawn consist firstly in the nature of the proper spawn, being rare, plus the aggresive competition in order to get mentioned spawn. Even more if you consider that in those games, mob tagging and killstealing were used by some people.
Regarding raids, I wonder what kind of game have you played to say that all you need is to gather people. If you want to experience real raiding i suggest you to try some other options in the market that have actual challenging, strategy-required raiding for best understanding.
I haven't seen any singleplayer game that has more difficulty since raiding in the games i am talking about require extreme coordination and teamwork, expertise and class knowledge if you want to succeed. If you ever have been RL trying to coordinate 120+ people to do a Coirnav or Rathe Council raid in Everquest you knew what I mean. The reason I mention this ecounters is so you can take a look online (I guess still must be around) for the required strategy in order to solve those, again so you can understand what I say.
About your last paragraph, I understand, and as I said, GW2 is a great game for casual playing IMO.
Rgds,
Eth.