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Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok AND OH YEAH! The Sith are the interagalatic version of Nazis
Ha! Right, I'm sure Michael B will say I'm trolling but hey, who cares?
Dude, you don't know nothing about Nazi Germany, the Nazi Party, the army under the Nazis, etc. Otherwise you'd actually know how perfectly fine you have just confirmed how wrong your understanding of the Sith actually is. :-P
Maybe it is time to take that nose out of those SW books and read up on 20th Century history?
no....you misunderstand the Sith Empire was modeled after the Nazi Empire this is not a troll post, this is not me making a broad statement.....George Lucas made them with this symbolism in mind.... Maybe you should learn more about about star wars lore.. But hey don't take my word for it, I challenge you to take a little self discovery.
But I digress as I see you are rabidly defending SWToR, its simply just upset alot of people for several reason I gave you mine, I remember when Star Wars first came out in the theaters I went and saw it with my big brother and have been a huge fan ever since, and in my opinion......that is not Star Wars just a poor facsimile.
DCUO until GW2 release gogo
Ah, a round of cheap backpaddling now? From talking about being evil to the looks of Nazi Germany.. tz ;-)
Okay, right, as I said maybe it's time for you to get your nose out of SW books and into history books?
The "iconography" found in Germany's Third Reich has been used and re-used to signify totalitarian states with hero worship, strength thru unity, grandeur reflecting the state's advanced state, etc.
Yet, these (imaginary or real) states would hardly go to the extreme of what you tie to the Sith!
Especially as, well, frankly the Sith have dug their own grave by being ruled by passion therefore basically flying into action without giving it rational thought.
And if you actually knew your SW as well as you claim, you'd have long ago noticed that Palpatine is a paradox by pure Sith standards: he uses cunning, he bids his time, he sets up plays that take decades before coming into effect.
He is miles removed from the Sith Warrior you seem to consider as the true Sith.
He is the Sith Inquisitor! He is the Sorcerer!
So yeah, for tonight, I think rather than DCUO, maybe you should be reading a bit? ;-)
Now, one final word: if - as you claim - you saw the initial release of Ep IV (and I'm sure many re-runs afterward) you will notice that not even Vader does stand up to be a good - pure - Sith.
He is still too controlled, still not a pure bundle of passions.
So, it's a good thing to have a vast fountain of knowledge, but really understanding it does help quite a bit ;-)
Okay, I lied, this now is really the final word in this post: I love it when people claim that SWTOR is not SW...
Right, you know what SWTOR stands for: Star Wars - The Old Republic!
That may give you a hint that you are no longer in Kansas, sorry, Star Wars Ep I - VI anymore.
So yes, maybe you were hoping for a true SW game, but heck, there is a SWTOR website, this website here has featured details about the game for a long time, I mean I don't know what is it that you want?
That either everything that has any sort of the SW logo on it is 100% true SW movies SW?
Or that somebody take your hand and tell you "no, this is not the SW you are looking for"?
Man, if you are as old as you claim, and you can't understand that not everything SW is hardcore, Extend. Universe SW, well, I'm sort of feeling sorry...
Originally posted by Scarlyng Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by Poison_Adele GW2 now puts a RPG focus on PvE via the storylines (as well as quests, events) but as soon as you go over to PvP that is completely dropped and could just as well be part of some online FPS...
After reading this statement I get the impression you either didn't play PVP during the BWEs or just weren't paying attention. There's a lot of depth to the classes and even more to the combat, especially WvW--WvW requiring real-world military strategies like keeping supply lines defended, repairs, splitting up into strike forces, etc. These were the groups that won.
Just because you facerolled and played it like an FPS doesn't mean that's what it was.
You know what roleplaying means, don't you?
You actually play out a character, a role, like a role in a theatre play!
Yes, of course if your role were Sir Dumbob the master tactitian, yes, it would be important to understand and display tactical knowledge.
But the depth doesn't rest in the class but in the "person" itself!
Here is a quote "for Dummies":
More than just describing what you can and can't do, your character defines what you will and won't do while playing him. If you decide that your character is curious and impulsive, then you, as your character, need to go ahead and push the strange button — even when, as a player, you suspect the GM has a bomb attached to it. And if you decide that your character is all strength and no brains, then you have to bite your tongue even when you know the answer to a puzzle.
So, if you just go "well, we are all fighting in the EB, so we use tactics, so we are now roleplaying", well, I'm sorry but that is about a few gazillion miles short of actual roleplaying and you should stop ever mentioning again that you are "roleplaying". *rolls eyes*
Roleplaying as you describe it is very much a cooperative endeavor. I've seen PvPRP servers in other games, and you are correct, GW2 does not provide that option because there are no PvP servers. About the best you might hope for is to find a guild interested in both PvP and RP. However,, the random nature of WvWvW opponents will prevent you from generating real long-term rivals and enemies.
That's why I was saying that where e.g. DAoC managed to hold up this RP crossing from PvE to PvP, GW2 just drops it completely on the PvP end.
Most certainly not.
I didn't mind what SW:TOR was triyng to accomplish, but I wasn't terribly impressed by it, either. They had all the same issues of bad voice acting and bad lines.
Furthermore, I don't typically do direct comparisons on games like that. I play too many different games for one to ruin another in a silly way like that, they'd have to be very similar, and SW:TOR and GW2, just, aren't.
Originally posted by Sleepyfish Well this is bait for the GW2 haters who all play SWTOR. And the SWTOR story is not that great. Another important thing, swtor missed was this. The Charr STARTING CITY has more areas in it than every city in SWTOR combined. You want to know how Narr Shaddah should had been done? Or a Death Star? Let GW2 show you what level design means. Immersion is half the story after all. TOR has a meh story with no immersion at all, theres no contest here.
This... NUFF SAID!!!
CPU:Intel Core i7-3770K 4GHzGPU:ASUS HD 7970 DirectCU II TOPMB:ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXECase:Cooler Master HAF XRAM:Corsair 16GB 1600PSU:Corsair gold 850HD:SSD OCZ 256 GB vertex4
Originally posted by StrangeEyes Originally posted by Sleepyfish Well this is bait for the GW2 haters who all play SWTOR. And the SWTOR story is not that great. Another important thing, swtor missed was this. The Charr STARTING CITY has more areas in it than every city in SWTOR combined. You want to know how Narr Shaddah should had been done? Or a Death Star? Let GW2 show you what level design means. Immersion is half the story after all. TOR has a meh story with no immersion at all, theres no contest here.
WRONG... NUFF SAID!1!!11!!!!!
(had to do it)
Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok AND OH YEAH! The Sith are the interagalatic version of Nazis
Ah, a round of cheap backpaddling now? From talking about being evil to the looks of Nazi Germany.. tz ;-)
Okay here I go man I challenge you to disprove any of this...
1.The stormtroopers from the movies share a name with the Nazi stormtroopers.
2.The imperial officers' uniforms also resemble some (historical) German Army uniforms.
3.The planets Kessel refers to a term that means to a group of encircled forces.
4.The planets Hoth refers to Hermann Hoth was a German general.
5.The Great Jedi Purge alludes to the events of The Holocaust. ALSO The Rule of Two instituted by Darth Bane in which no more than one apprentice and one master can exist at one time within the sith ranks alludes to the holocaust.
6.Palpatine and his rise to power are modeled after such historical dictators as Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler. "he uses cunning, he bids his time, he sets up plays that take decades before coming into effect." to quote you these are all things each of these people did, a true master scheme is a series of well played plans and traps spanning an indetermined amount of time.
7.Darth Vader's helmet shares a similar appearance with the German Army helmets of World War II.
now I am evengonna throw you a curve ball, Anakin Skywalker is a reference to Jesus in the sense he has no father and was conceive "through the force".
"And if you actually knew your SW as well as you claim, you'd have long ago noticed that Palpatine is a paradox by pure Sith standards: he uses cunning, he bids his time, he sets up plays that take decades before coming into effect.
He is the Sith Inquisitor! He is the Sorcerer!"
Okay first you are trying to classify an iconic character such as Palpatine within SWToR which is fine if that helps you but thats not how he was made by George Lucas, he is cunning and deceitful betraying nearly everyone he comes in contact with. he is not a paradox he is pure sith evil and malevolent even to his cohorts.
And finally since I am all over the chart yes Vader did go back to being Anakin only after he was forced to choose between watching his son die or the dark side, AND if you read the books you would know he always regreted hurting Padme and causing her death, that was his was of doing what he should have done when Mace Windu had Palpatine on the ropes.
There are times when one must ask themselves is it my passion that truly frightens you? Or your own?
Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok AND OH YEAH! The Sith are the interagalatic version of Nazis
Ah, a round of cheap backpaddling now? From talking about being evil to the looks of Nazi Germany.. tz ;-)
I bet you two get all the girls.
Originally posted by Zorgo Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok Originally posted by Trol1 Originally posted by graggok
Horse poopy *blames it on Dark Pony*
Only online.....the doorway shrank and I can no longer fit through.
Went kayaking with my kids since I gotta work tomorrow
Was a great day and I only need one girl....
Originally posted by niceguy3978 Originally posted by DJJazzy One has no relevance to the other.
I tend to agree with this. I am pretty sure I would have found the personal story in GW2 fairly bad no matter what. To me, it is the worst part of the game. Each time a conversation screen happens, I can't help but have memories triggered of old fighter games where after you and your opponents picked your characters they would have a pop out screen with pictures of each character with a big VS. in the middle. That is what the dialoge scenes remind me of. I doubt it will stay this way as they have that big "work in progress" sign up in the corner, so maybe it will improve.
Nope, they intended to give that type of feeling. Some might find it outdated, but I know I (and at least some others) enjoy the old-school RPG feel it gives.
Mass Effects story ruined GW2 Story for me. Can't help but appreciate the writing done in ME1-3
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
No it didnt. I skipped all the GW2 cutscenes and by the time it said my personal story was over I didnt even know I was engaged in one! Yes I didnt care, but I loved the dynamic events, lack of quest hubs, combat, graphics, community, etc and that's more than enough for me given how mediocre SWTOR was even with its newfangled story voice overs and static cutscenes
It's not a matter of just story. Some of those stories in swtor were bad. Some were good. It's a combination of the way they seemingly introduced the cinematics with the voice acting and story telling that works well for the game. I am not a fan of the way the story is PRESENTED in gw2. The cutscenes do not draw me in. The voice acting is okay (barely). At least the main story lines in swtor kept me entertained for a while. I'm just not feeling it for gw2.
Had they done cutscenes like the original GW (obviously improved) I think it would've been much better than what we have now.
I read books for a good story, I play MMO's for entertainment. If focusing so much energy and resources on story (hello SWTOR), means that nearly every other aspect of the game will be subpar (hello again SWTOR), then no thank you. GW2's storyline is just fine for what it is in my opinion.
Sorroe, Human MesmerJade Quarry Server
Originally posted by Zorgo (snip)
I laughed so so SO hard you have no idea. Thanks for that, needed a good chuckle!
Originally posted by indojabijin It's not a matter of just story. Some of those stories in swtor were bad. Some were good. It's a combination of the way they seemingly introduced the cinematics with the voice acting and story telling that works well for the game. I am not a fan of the way the story is PRESENTED in gw2. The cutscenes do not draw me in. The voice acting is okay (barely). At least the main story lines in swtor kept me entertained for a while. I'm just not feeling it for gw2. Had they done cutscenes like the original GW (obviously improved) I think it would've been much better than what we have now.
Who cares though? TOR with its stories had crappy gameplay. GW2 with its story that is not as well-presented and that I skipped (because frankly I couldnt care less) is such a complete experience for me that at this point nothing they do can possibly ruin the game for me I think.
On the 2nd beta they introduced chat bubbles that people were asking for. They LISTEN to the community. Every other MMO developer out there (especially you *Bioware*) should pay attention because THAT'S how you treat the customer and ArenaNet doesnt even charge us monthly!
When I think of all that, all other ocmpanies seem lame to me.
Originally posted by dimasok On the 2nd beta they introduced chat bubbles that people were asking for. They LISTEN to the community. Every other MMO developer out there (especially you *Bioware*) should pay attention because THAT'S how you treat the customer and ArenaNet doesnt even charge us monthly! When I think of all that, all other ocmpanies seem lame to me.
Chat bubbles? Chat bubbles made the game?
Right... 2 more reasons why I'm glad I'm not going play the game again...
on a side note: "They LISTEN to the community." It's always nice to run that sweet and happy picture in your mind until the company starts doing something that some part of the community feels should be there and the other doesn't... I don't think we need to go into games and details on that one, do we?
Originally posted by Trol1some online FPS... Why would you "waste" your time playing a - pen and paper game? Because maybe you could learn something from it? Whether social interaction or creative thought process, simple imagination or complex problem solution skills, tactics, strategy, the joy for creating something, there is a lot to be learned from roleplaying... Jeez, really? I've had my SWTOR characters commit so many not so good deeds on a spur of a moment, partially because I felt they are right, but usually more so because I also felt that my character would react this way.
I find it amusing you're pushing RPing so hard in a topic about personal story, when basically either personal story.... GW2 or SWTOR... is pretty much antithetical to any serious RPing.
I mean, really. There's only ONE bounty hunter player character in all of SWTOR, and everybody is playing various alternate reality versions of them. Everybody with a class goes through the same story, just making slightly different decisions that don't actually change the path of the story.
(Note, I'm not saying GW2 is doing a better job of this) Anybody who wants to be RPing a real character should be ignoring the hell out of the personal story in SWTOR or GW2, unless of course they want to be like EVERYBODY ELSE who happens to have the same story.
If I had a P&P DM who said 'Oh, you want to be a warrior? Here. Here's your character sheet, and you're going to go through these specific events, and when we get to those events, I'll give you 2, 3 choices on how to respond. What, you had a better idea? Screw that. You're doing one of the choices I give you', I'd rebel and run the campaign myself and relegate that DM to the role of player.
Personal story isn't much like RPing, it's more closely akin to a Choose Your Own Adventure book. :T
Originally posted by DarkPony
I don't really think you got the point I tried to make; having a choice in conversations and getting to pick brutal / snide / respectful lines whenever YOU feel like it does much more for presenting story in rpg's and making you feel invested in your character compared to the actual depth or quality of plot lines.
Whether Swtor's plot lines are better than GW2's is debatable (I think GW2's are much more shallow, personally), but by giving you a choice, even if it's just superficial (i.e. not influencing much) in every conversation, it blows GW2's way of story presentation out of the water in my opinion.
No. They were pointless choices and you quicky learned that. So, except for light and dark points, they just didn't matter. Plus, they never really said what I wanted them to say and sometimes the approximations given as choices were so far off that I was like 'what the heck, where did that come from?'
Originally posted by Valentina SWTOR's story and presentation are both exceedingly better than GW2's, there's no competition there unfortunately. I can't see how anyone could honestly say SWTOR's story was bad, and that it's presentation was bad, they must not have actually played it. I've played singleplayer RPG's with worse stories then SWTOR's, at least in SWTOR your choices effect your own play experience, something all together unprecidented in MMO's so far. GW2's method of story presentation isn't nearly as seamless, in fact they go out of their way to take you out of the game world for horrendous "cinematics" or "cut scenes" where you're flailing your arms around WoW emote style, with another character, with a distracting wallpaper thing playing in the background. The story of GW2 is generic, and while you can make choices it all feels so cut and pasted, and all around disconnected. GW2 is a great game in several areas of content, though, even if story isn't one in my honest opinion, but so is SW:TOR and I do think that SW:TOR in the end will have spoiled people in several aspects of gameplay that they'll find it hard to adjust to anything else including GW2, I know I did, and I know many other people have as well just by talking to them in GW2 beta weekends. I'll be playing both games, they both offer something to players that set them each apart from one another, and they're the only major releases we're going to be seeing for quite a while. ESO doesn't come out til next year, and I kind of suspect it won't be til the end of next year if it makes it's projected release year at all.
Because not everyone is enamoured with third-rate fan-fiction by people with no talent? I've read the books that have come out of BioWare staff. They're bad. Really bad. They make the Vampire Porn garbage Charlene Harris writes read like Ulysses or Catcher in the Rye.
Honestly, those stories weren't even 'good' for poorly written pulp fiction. The dialogue was okay in most of them. But the stories themselves were so over-the-top unbelievable they were putrid. I mean, really, think about the conclusion of the Jedi Knight story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuyAfEgYAMo&feature=related
Melodramatic bad guy speechs. Ranting and raving. My fight would have ended at 12:09 when I would kept moving my lightsaber down... Oh, but I'm not allowed to. The control is taken away for the over-done, lame conclusion.
And how did i get there? That was the Ultimate Bad Guy! But hey, if we make enough lame Deus Ex Machina plot holes, we can waltz right in...
Originally posted by terrant Let's see. One game has a great story with some choice (although as usual you're polazrized into being good or bad for the rewards) and tremendous voice acting, but the combat is some of the dullest stuff I've ever played. The other game has fairly meh voice acting and OK stories, but I ahven't had so much fun playing in years. Nope. Not ruined for me.
That's just too funny. Many of the VAs will be same people. Human male = male consular for example (Nolan North). Human female = female Jedi Knight (Keri Wahlgren). There are at least a few more -- Troy Baker, April Stewart, Steve Blum, Kyle Hebert, and Jen Dixon who played various NPC voices.
Felicia Day, was not in SWTOR, is in GW2 and she rocks. Ellen Dubin is in (played in Lexx, Ilene in Napolean Dynamite).
Really, there are only a couple of 'unknowns.' All the rest are "A level" Voice-over talents. With MOST of the GW2 VAs in SWTOR.
So, I'm not sure where you're coming from when you're criticizing the VA. If any thing, Nolan North is much better as human noble than he was as Jedi Consular.
Originally posted by MosesZD Originally posted by terrant Let's see. One game has a great story with some choice (although as usual you're polazrized into being good or bad for the rewards) and tremendous voice acting, but the combat is some of the dullest stuff I've ever played. The other game has fairly meh voice acting and OK stories, but I ahven't had so much fun playing in years. Nope. Not ruined for me.
The think dialogue writing and direction count for something too. A VA can be awesome, but if they people behind the script fail, they can't do much about it. My beef with GW2 VAs is so many sound..dispassionate. Bored even. And the races don't feel like they have distinct accents/racial patterns to their speech.
That said I enjoy GW2's story, and I thought ToR's story was quite good as well. I'd rate ToR's story/acting 9/10 at least, and GW2's at least a 7. However gameplay in GW2 is so much more interesting, that it improves any minor flaws in storytelling for me.
Originally posted by DJJazzy My issue with how swtor told their stories is that they tried to fit single player gaming into an mmo. They needed to do a lot of other changes in order for it to work. As it is, it feels jarring to come out of the story part of the missions into the mmo world.
My issue is that they hired writers like the woman on the right. (The woman on the left writes for GW2.)
Anyway, the SWTOR stories were not very good. The writing talent was definitely not "A" list and it showed. The stories were full of obvious plot holes, MacGuffins, deliberately withheld information necessary so solve the 'mystery' of the story like a children's mystery novel series (Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys) does because they couldn't do any better than that and jarring, phony physics (their reliance on impossible doomsday weapons). It didn't help that I'm extremely well read in science fiction and a fan of old fashioned Space Opera and saw where they not so subtly stole may of their ideas.
In fact, I'll say this. I played TSW this weekend. Duirng Beta 3. Stories there, as far as I got, were excellent. Character models need work, especially the female faces. The cut-scenes are no great artistic accomplishments (they're ok, just not great or anything) . But the stories were A-talent stories.
If you're a 'story' person, they kick SWTOR's (and GW2's) stories to hell and back. I really didn't think I'd buy that game. Not anything that Funcom AND EA attached to it... But it's surprisingly good for a STORY MMO. I don't know about 'end game' or the rest. But the stories are good and well done. Even most of the 'throwaway' FEDEX quests.
I voted other since I didn't really agree with the poll choices. I didn't think TOR's story was good at all and the way it was delivered, while different, wasn't to my liking. After a little while the choices were a lot of repeats and it was pretty dull so no, TOR's story had no bearing on GW2's story.
On the other hand, GW2's story isn't all that impressive, but I can only base that on an unfinished product and a very small sample of it. I didn't get into the personal stories during any BWE because I wanted to save that for release, but I did try a little bit of the humans early portions to test bringing in other players to participate and see how it worked. The lack of options and the VO's really didn't bother me in this game either because while I like lore, I don't have a preferance on how it is delivered. I would have thought having options would be great but since it didn't impress in TOR, I can't say I have a good track record with the style even though many were saying they could never go back to another MMO that didn't have that feature. To that I call shenanigan.
While TOR put a bad taste in my mouth and I didn't think the story was good, I still don't hold that against other games such as GW2. TOR story and delivery were crap IMO and it didn't make GW2's better or worse. The closest you had was GW2's story was not fun, but this isn't my answer because I still don't know and if it's bad it will have nothing to do with TOR.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Originally posted by MosesZD Ellen Dubin is in.
I enjoyed the sith Inq. story but the world, the zones - their facades and the way the game plays let it down.
GW2 doesn't have the full on voice sequences as in swtor BUT the worlds, zones and gameplay mechanics make me enjoy the game in this sense a lot more than swtor.
I guess swtor left me feeling like I HAD to do the storylines if i wanted interesting stuff to do - otherwise there was nothing much - GW2 has plenty, PLENTY to do even if you don't touch your story line....