I'm not sure what you are asking for OP, I also notice you dodged the question when asked to give example of games you consider to have no trash mobs.
I usually play strategy games like Civilization and Panzer General, Paradox's strategies and Total War strategies. They tend to have different gameplay; in Total War strategies you can use "autoresolve feature" to skip battles with an equivalent of "trash mobs". RPGs have their share of trash mobs, but the amount varies: from DA2 where trash mobs were as abundant as trash mobs in mmorpgs to Shadow of the Colossus where you don't have any mobs but bosses at all. Fallout: New Vegas is somewhere in between; plenty of trash mobs, but you can skip nearly all of them through stealth, etc.
The most recent game I've played was Binary Domain; on the first glance, it's full of trash mobs (robots, limited number of models, same behavior between them), but the situations in which it put you were different every time; this time it was a wide open room with cover on one side; a series of tight corridors with robots pouring from all sides; time-limited run through throngs of mobs; snipers above; etc. All the encounters hand-crafted by developers, they always put something new there. Lots of boss fights. Lots of side-challenges like "not just kill a bunch of robots, but do it with headshots and melee". All in all, the game doesn't turn itself into a routine; of course, it's short. How can it be something else when all the fights are hand-crafted? And I see no point in ever repeating it. But overall, that's how would I prefer the games to be.
Developers cannot custom craft every single encounter, which means they will inevitably repeat. Even if you randomize the AI you're only expanding the possilibities, and once you learn to recognize the AI pattern it just become Mob A-AI Type X and everything after that becomes "trash mob".
And at that moment this type of mob have to disappear from the game forever. Yeah, sure, it'll make it shorter... But I don't see it as a downside.
Even changing up the mob group composition doesn't help solve the problem, as you can only mix them in so many ways.
But let's try to mix them at least in SOME ways!
To fit your criteria there will be essentially no encounters left outside of boss fights.
I'm not an absolutist; some amount of trash mobs is inevitable, especially considering that it's subjective at which point mobs turn from "new challenge" to "old trash mobs" for each player. But I would prefer that amount to be smaller than larger.
I totally see where the OP is coming from. Personally, I find it very annoying to have to stop and kill a bunch of trash mobs when just running through an area.
Even GW1 pretty well forced you to kill everything along the way, unless you specifically used a running build to cure conditions, prevent knockdowns/slows/etc. Otherwise even the lowbie mobs could still pin you down and degen you to death.
However, GW2 doesn't really have this problem. Why? Because of the short mob range leashes. Whether or not the mobs are a challenge to beat doesn't even matter. If you don't want to fight them, just run past them - they don't really chase you. The worst that can happen is that a ranged mob hits you 1-2 times. You won't die, and out-of-combat health regeneration is very fast.
So, to all those people complaining about the mob aggro leash - shut up. Seriously.
However, GW2 doesn't really have this problem. Why? Because of the short mob range leashes. Whether or not the mobs are a challenge to beat doesn't even matter. If you don't want to fight them, just run past them - they don't really chase you. The worst that can happen is that a ranged mob hits you 1-2 times. You won't die, and out-of-combat health regeneration is very fast.
So, to all those people complaining about the mob aggro leash - shut up. Seriously.
Yay! Now that's I like. If I can just run/evade mobs I don't feel like fighting, it'll be good enough.
sincerelly, I think you need try the game for see it yourself. Try get a key for next BW or just pre-purchase the game. You are trying understand how GW2 works, but you you use a mind frame from who is trained to play WoW-clones. "Trash mobs" happens at WoW-clones (ever and forever), but GW2 is NOT a WoW-clone....
With relation to hearts, they can be quest, but not the traditional quests. A player can complete it and not kill any mob. "Kill 10 rats" is not mandatory. However, hearts are not the main meat. DE are most important than hearts, and hearts where put on map just for players don't get lost while looking for DE.
Hearts are things for do while players look for DE. And while a player complete a DE, that player can just complete 1-3 diferent hearts too, just from killing mobs from the DE.
I don't actually like to "try" games before they are out, in beta stage. When I'm playing, I prefer to have full, ready experience, not limited by couple of hours in the weekend following by months of waiting.
As for "wow-mentality", I was very interested in the difference between DEs and normal quest system earlier, discussed the issue, read what developers posted and what videos were available on the issue and I think I understand DEs pretty well. They are an interesting, but not critical evolution of quests, an improvement over normal quests, but not as radical as some people tend to think. Also, this issue is not all that important to the question of trash mobs.
You see, it's not why you kill a mob and what rewards you get that makes it a "trash mob"; it's how you kill it and how many same mobs you have to kill in a same way. Certainly DEs which allow you to do other things than to kill mobs to complete them are helping... UNLESS you have to kill those same mobs to complete the DE. If you have to collect 10 nodes and those 10 nodes are guarded by 10 mobs you can't evade, it's not really different from killing 10 mobs, is it?
I'm trying to think of a single player game that does this lmao.
I think PVP is the only part of any game that does this.
Though I'm sure there are games out there that do this like FPS games.
There are few battles that haven't been repeated in the past, even in FPS games.
Wait we talking bout battles?
I thought he said a trash mob is after you kill someone, the next encounter with the same species or enemy type they must have different tactics, otherwise they are trash mobs.
I might be missing the point still.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
It sounds like you are more concerned with finishing quests quickly and levelling up to cap as quickly as possible, rather than playing the game.
This is not the right mindset for GW2 - its not about getting to level cap as quickly as possible, its about experiencing the story and the game. Levelling as quickly as possible to move onto the next area means you will miss out lots of the game content because you will miss many dynamic events that dont happen that often, or need certain conditions to trigger that werent there the first time you ran through a particular place on the map.
For me, GW2 is more about exploring the world and experiencing the things that happen as you explore.
It sounds like what you are asking for is every mob in the game to have different combat tactics...... which is just impossible. If you want that, play PvP
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I'm still a little bit confused about your definition of "trash mob". You said they're for "artificially extending game time" and if that's what defines a trash mob, then no, there aren't any in GW2, from what I've seen. During my 2 beta weekends I never HAD to kill any mobs standing in my way / whatever to make progress. Of course, each mob doesn't provide a "new challenge", since developing that would take years for a game of this size.
However, if you want to, you can just kill one ettin monster, have it provide you a challenge, and then never kill one of those guys again. The game does not force "kill 10 ettins" type quests on you and as such, the feeling of grinding trash mobs is gone. The only times you'll be "forced" to fight large groups of similar monsters are dynamic events, but that doesn't mean the mobs will just stand there and wait until you kill them one by one - usually you're the one being assaulted during an event and that makes the kills a lot more fun.
In short, I think that you could be surprised by GW2 in this aspect, OP. I'm not one to say "you will like it" or anything like that, but the PvE is different from the usual cookie cutter MMO. In one word, it's interesting.
Lmao @ Tactical terrain situations. If you expect every single mob that comes at you, to be unique, with different skillsets, and an instant boss fight, ur delusional. Thats not how dungeons are supposed to work. If you were referring to normal PvE content, your post makes even less sense to me. What are you expecting from regular quest mobs? Aside from 1-2 unique skills?
"If I wanted to fight the trash, I would become a janitor" LOL wut.
I guess you are right. I can't expect satisfying gameplay from MMORPGs. It is, after all, just mmorpgs. They can't jump above their heads.
Sorry but the "trash mobs" you describe are in no way limited to MMO's.
By your definition, 80% of skyrim, mass effect, legend of zelda and every shooter and fighting game ever is just trash mobs.
What you seem to ignore is the fact that encountering a similar event or fight more than once can still be FUN. If you don't find the combat in a combat-oriented game fun then you really shouldn't be playing in the first place.
P.S. While Shadow of the Colussus was an awesome game, the fact there were so few encounters in the game made it quite boring outside of the boss fights. I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if there had been more encounters, even if they were repeated.
There really is no such thing as a "trash mob" in GW2. Normal every day quest monsters, even provide challenge, and if you dont pay attention you will die.
That's not saying much. If I don't pay attention, I can die fighting mobs in SWTOR. But it's no actual challenge. If I can kill 20 mobs using same tactics, same strategy, and not turning on a brain once, then 18 of those 20 mobs are trash mobs.
It's actually not quite that simple. You see in SWTOR and games like it sure you can stand there and let something gnaw on you until you die. In GW2 a couple of hits are enough to do it so there is a sense of urgency. Also, themeparks like SWTOR and the like all eventually give you abilities to kill things in two hits. That's not the case in GW2 you actually have to think about what you are doing, can't just target next, clicky clicky boom off to the next mob. These mobs think.
It sounds like you are more concerned with finishing quests quickly and levelling up to cap as quickly as possible, rather than playing the game.
*rolls eyes*
This is not the right mindset for GW2 - its not about getting to level cap as quickly as possible, its about experiencing the story and the game. Levelling as quickly as possible to move onto the next area means you will miss out lots of the game content because you will miss many dynamic events that dont happen that often, or need certain conditions to trigger that werent there the first time you ran through a particular place on the map.
*rolls eyes*
Why people never read what I write and argue with someone else?
For me, GW2 is more about exploring the world and experiencing the things that happen as you explore.
It sounds like what you are asking for is every mob in the game to have different combat tactics...... which is just impossible.
Why? Because the number of mobs will be less in the game? So what, if they are more interesting? Because there will not be a mob behind every corner, but just a limited number of complex and challenging mobs in a zone? How is it bad?
If you want that, play PvP
I will, no doubt about it. PvP is pretty much the most interesting part of any game for me. Still, I would like to have some enjoyment out of PvE too.
Sorry but the "trash mobs" you describe are in no way limited to MMO's.
Have I said anywhere that they are limited to MMOs? On the contrary, I've brought DA2 as the prime example of a game with trash mobs.
By your definition, 80% of skyrim, mass effect, legend of zelda and every shooter and fighting game ever is just trash mobs.
And I completely agree. I was severily disappointed by Skyrim, by the way. Still, those games put same mobs in diffirent and diverse situations and positions, changing other variables, creating new challenge; some better, some worse. I just want MMOs to do the same and be in a "better" category.
Remember those gigants with mammoths in Skyrim? Challenging and fun - while you are learning to fight with them. After I've finished the third camp, they became trash mobs for me. Because now I knew how to kill them. I had no interest in further killing them; luckily they could be completely evaded.
I'm not even speaking about dragons. To turn "the ultimate creature" in the game into a trash mob right from the start - you have to have a special talent. By the fifth attack all I could think was "oh no, another bother..."
What you seem to ignore is the fact that encountering a similar event or fight more than once can still be FUN. If you don't find the combat in a combat-oriented game fun then you really shouldn't be playing in the first place.
It's yet to be seen, for me, if a repeated combat with same mobs without new challenges will be fun for me. Still, there always is the point where you think "oh now, not another bear..."
P.S. While Shadow of the Colussus was an awesome game, the fact there were so few encounters in the game made it quite boring outside of the boss fights. I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if there had been more encounters, even if they were repeated.
trash mobs in the dungeons are sometimes harder than the bosses lol
i did the dungeon in story mode.....the doble ranger pull.....was crazy and the triple pull with ranger elementalist and mesmer ................no comments... lol
the fun thing about Gw2 dungeons is that u need to pay attention all the time
traps , thrash mobs that love to use aoe (and u gonna dodge and keep an eye on the ground)
no tanks , no healers......+ trash mobs = every pull is fun :P
Have I said anywhere that they are limited to MMOs? On the contrary, I've brought DA2 as the prime example of a game with trash mobs.
And I completely agree. I was severily disappointed by Skyrim, by the way. Still, those games put same mobs in diffirent and diverse situations and positions, changing other variables, creating new challenge; some better, some worse. I just want MMOs to do the same and be in a "better" category.
Remember those gigants with mammoths in Skyrim? Challenging and fun - while you are learning to fight with them. After I've finished the third camp, they became trash mobs for me. Because now I knew how to kill them. I had no interest in further killing them; luckily they could be completely evaded.
I'm not even speaking about dragons. To turn "the ultimate creature" in the game into a trash mob right from the start - you have to have a special talent. By the fifth attack all I could think was "oh no, another bother..."
It's yet to be seen, for me, if a repeated combat with same mobs without new challenges will be fun for me. Still, there always is the point where you think "oh now, not another bear..."
Well you DID say " I can't expect satisfying gameplay from MMORPGs. It is, after all, just mmorpgs."; at that point you had not mentioned DA2.
I do understand what you mean, doing the exact same thing can get boring quick. However, to ask that no two encounters are ever the same is unreasonable for games with the scope of an MMO.
Luckily for you, the combat system in GW2 means that even fights against identical mobs can play out slightly different, while the class and skill system compounds this as you can switch your build and your combat approach on the fly.
Edit: Another thing is that areas will often be populated with many different types of mobs such as archers, meleers, spellcasters and even siege weapons that they use against you. So even if the mobs repeat themselves, the scenario doesnt
Well you DID say " I can't expect satisfying gameplay from MMORPGs. It is, after all, just mmorpgs."; at that point you had not mentioned DA2.
I was sarcastic. What I meant was "we can't hold mmorpgs to lower standard than other games. They should be judged the same way as all the other games, not being patronised as a lesser genre which is judged by other standards."
I do understand what you mean, doing the exact same thing can get boring quick. However, to ask that no two encounters are ever the same is unreasonable for games with the scope of an MMO.
Why not make the scope smaller? It's not as if you need to stall people for months so that they don't "burn through content" and cancel the subscription. Let them burn through content - but let's make that burn shine! If you need to kill 2 bandits and 3 bandits working in group, together, with properly developed AI and with assistance of specifically developed for this encounter scripts - I don't think it will be less "epic" than killing 20 bandits by pulling them one-by-one.
Luckily for you, the combat system in GW2 means that even fights against identical mobs can play out slightly different, while the class and skill system compounds this as you can switch your build and your combat approach on the fly.
We can hope, we can hope. I'll certainly be experimenting a lot.
See that little word under the target unit frame? It says "dazes." So there are a bunch of these little behaviors and skills they add to mobs based on these categories. Sometimes a mob will have more than one (most of the time). This gives most types of mobs a little bit of differentiation as you move through the gameworld.
You acknowledge that what you are asking for is ridiculous and nearly impossible, then ask if GW2 somehow manages to provide the impossible, then appear to try to portray GW2 as lacking because it fails to provide the impossible. While not quite the quintessential strawman argument, the tactic, effect and fallacy are similar.
You seem to want every single mob to be unique; if you ever encounter a duplicate afterward, it will henceforth be considered trash by your definition--which, by the way, differs drastically from most players' definition, where mobs become trash once they become boring, monotonous, and no longer stimulate your brain. By your definition, if there are 100 different mob types in the game, you will eventually encounter trash if there are more than 100 mobs total in the game. Sorry, but every single MMO in existence features tens of thousands of mobs and certainly not tens of thousands of unique mob types and behaviours. GW2 is no different in this regard. So to save you and all other posters their breath, no, neither GW2 nor any other MMO meets such absurd standards.
If you are actually interested in hearing how I or others feel GW2 encounters fare relative to more traditoinal notions of "trash," I will be happy to post a quick analysis of how engaging and stimulating I feel they are or are not. But at the moment, I'm not convinced you care.
Well you DID say " I can't expect satisfying gameplay from MMORPGs. It is, after all, just mmorpgs."; at that point you had not mentioned DA2.
I was sarcastic. What I meant was "we can't hold mmorpgs to lower standard than other games. They should be judged the same way as all the other games, not being patronised as a lesser genre which is judged by other standards."
I do understand what you mean, doing the exact same thing can get boring quick. However, to ask that no two encounters are ever the same is unreasonable for games with the scope of an MMO.
Why not make the scope smaller? It's not as if you need to stall people for months so that they don't "burn through content" and cancel the subscription. Let them burn through content - but let's make that burn shine! If you need to kill 2 bandits and 3 bandits working in group, together, with properly developed AI and with assistance of specifically developed for this encounter scripts - I don't think it will be less "epic" than killing 20 bandits by pulling them one-by-one.
Luckily for you, the combat system in GW2 means that even fights against identical mobs can play out slightly different, while the class and skill system compounds this as you can switch your build and your combat approach on the fly.
We can hope, we can hope. I'll certainly be experimenting a lot.
We aren't holding MMOs to a lower standard. We are holding MMOs to a genre standard. Every genre has it's own standards, and games from other genres can never truly meet those standards, without actually becoming apart of that genre.
When applying MMO standards, Guild Wars 2 does encounters quite well. Every encounter is challenging. You can't just pull a group of mobs, AoE, and be on your way. The most I've managed to take on was 4, and that's was after I had been playing for hours, and learned a little bit about my class (and I had some luck).
With the scale of time and money investments that go into MMO development, expectig robust mob AI that are just like players at the beginning is a little too much. However, since development on an MMO never truly ends, AI can (and if GW1 is anything to judge by, will) improve over the lifespan of the MMO.
One important thing to note with MMO standards is that a game's quality is tied to the amount of content it has (and the quality of it). If a game launches with so little content, regardless of how well done that content is, the game will stagnate and will get terrible player reviews. As a result, that means less money for the developer. So the goal is to launch with enough content to satisfy the majority of the players until the next content release, and so they can make improvements behind the scenes.
And yes, with GW2, pretty much every profession has a different play style. If you try to play an ele like a mesmer, you will die. I've tried that myself. I died a lot.
The main problem in mmorpgs for me is trash mobs. You know them: just a bunch of mobs that present no challenge and no interest, having no purpose and are there only for one reason: to make you spend more time moving from start of the quest to its boss/end, or from point A to point B.
Single player games have them, a recent example - Dragon Age 2 had them in nearly every battle. But in mmorpgs they truly are a pandemic. Since most mmorpgs need to artificially extend game time, they insert such mobs everywhere. My mind can take only so much extending before it bursts.
For me, for a game to have interest, every encounter must represent a challenge - either by a new mob type, a new mob combination, or a different tactical situation through terrain, mob scripts, etc. This means that pretty much every encounter must be hand-crafted, or a lot of different types of enemies with different scripts, behaviors and AIs have to be created. This, of course, is a problem, because there is only so much human-months is available for development.
This, by necessity, means that the games I like are short - because they contain no empty filler, no trash mobs, and without filler there is only so much content that can be developed. That's okay for me; if I wanted to fight the trash, I would become a janitor.
So, the question. I didn't play GW2 betas, I did watch some videos; I don't expect anything revolutionary from it, and I'm satisfied with what I see. I am, however, interested, how many trash mobs are in there. In all mmorpgs I've played, the main reason I've stopped was because I was tired of moping the trash. Would I be tired in GW2 sooner or later?
If you mean mobs just placed on the map with no other purpose but help you level up
No, I mean mobs just placed in quest zones to extend the time I need to finish that quest. It's not important if they bring experience or not. If I have to repeatedly kill same or similar mobs using the same tactics and strategy without new challenge at each step, they are trash mobs.
By this definition i am almost 100% sure you will get bored pretty fast.
The Heart quests areas will make you do the same few things over and over again with little to no change to them at all.
The DE varies a little more but it really boils down to fighting off wave after wave of mobs and even tho the mob type might varies from event to event the actual tactic does not. You also will have to escort NPCs quiet often and again defend them from waves of mobs which again only seem to raise in numbers.Some DE will have you gather items which you will do in areas with tons of trashmobs.The most fun DE are the ones were you fight a boss mob here you might want to use tactics to make the fight easier BUT most others don't seem to care and just zerg the bosses anyways which kinda means you will have to too.
That being said i dont think GW2 will offer longtime fun for PVE players (unless you are easily satisfied of course) but you could always do PVP you don't have to deal with Trashmobs and your tactic has to change very fast for PVP players i think GW2 will be fun for a long long time.
We aren't holding MMOs to a lower standard. We are holding MMOs to a genre standard. Every genre has it's own standards, and games from other genres can never truly meet those standards, without actually becoming apart of that genre.
Well, it is true. But genre standard, as it stands now, sucks royal balls. I hope it will improve with GW2, at least a bit.
When applying MMO standards, Guild Wars 2 does encounters quite well. Every encounter is challenging. You can't just pull a group of mobs, AoE, and be on your way. The most I've managed to take on was 4, and that's was after I had been playing for hours, and learned a little bit about my class (and I had some luck).
Well, same can be said about, you know, SWTOR. If you'll get too much focus on you, you'll die... But that certainly doesn't make SWTOR combat entertaining.
With the scale of time and money investments that go into MMO development, expectig robust mob AI that are just like players at the beginning is a little too much. However, since development on an MMO never truly ends, AI can (and if GW1 is anything to judge by, will) improve over the lifespan of the MMO.
My primary genre is strategies, global and tactical; AI is pretty much what the game is all about. Without AI the game in this genre is dead; that probably colors my expectations.
One important thing to note with MMO standards is that a game's quality is tied to the amount of content it has (and the quality of it). If a game launches with so little content, regardless of how well done that content is, the game will stagnate and will get terrible player reviews. As a result, that means less money for the developer. So the goal is to launch with enough content to satisfy the majority of the players until the next content release, and so they can make improvements behind the scenes.
I'm not sure about it. What's good that much content if it's boring? For example, let's take, again, SWTOR. I liked a lot of things in it; I was content with story, graphics, worlds, pvp battlegrounds, space combat minigame, and so on. I would probably still be playing the game if not for impossibly repetitious, brainless combat. I've tried to push my way through bounty-hunter storyline, and then, at lvl 48 I've understood, that I simply can't stand pushing through another 20 encounters of groups of 3 mobs with same behavior, standing between me and the next installment of the story.
If the game had 2 groups of 3 mobs, between me and the next step, it would have 10 times "less content" (blah!) (don't ever call repeating battles with same mobs "content"!), but I would be highly praising it and probably walking through next 4-5 storylines. And we all know how much of "success" SWTOR was, despite its amount of content.
As far as I'm concerned, inflation of content by putting lots of same mobs for player to fight is a way to make a game into failure.
And yes, with GW2, pretty much every profession has a different play style. If you try to play an ele like a mesmer, you will die. I've tried that myself. I died a lot.
Comments
I totally see where the OP is coming from. Personally, I find it very annoying to have to stop and kill a bunch of trash mobs when just running through an area.
Even GW1 pretty well forced you to kill everything along the way, unless you specifically used a running build to cure conditions, prevent knockdowns/slows/etc. Otherwise even the lowbie mobs could still pin you down and degen you to death.
However, GW2 doesn't really have this problem. Why? Because of the short mob range leashes. Whether or not the mobs are a challenge to beat doesn't even matter. If you don't want to fight them, just run past them - they don't really chase you. The worst that can happen is that a ranged mob hits you 1-2 times. You won't die, and out-of-combat health regeneration is very fast.
So, to all those people complaining about the mob aggro leash - shut up. Seriously.
Yay! Now that's I like. If I can just run/evade mobs I don't feel like fighting, it'll be good enough.
Opener,
sincerelly, I think you need try the game for see it yourself. Try get a key for next BW or just pre-purchase the game. You are trying understand how GW2 works, but you you use a mind frame from who is trained to play WoW-clones. "Trash mobs" happens at WoW-clones (ever and forever), but GW2 is NOT a WoW-clone....
With relation to hearts, they can be quest, but not the traditional quests. A player can complete it and not kill any mob. "Kill 10 rats" is not mandatory. However, hearts are not the main meat. DE are most important than hearts, and hearts where put on map just for players don't get lost while looking for DE.
Hearts are things for do while players look for DE. And while a player complete a DE, that player can just complete 1-3 diferent hearts too, just from killing mobs from the DE.
I don't actually like to "try" games before they are out, in beta stage. When I'm playing, I prefer to have full, ready experience, not limited by couple of hours in the weekend following by months of waiting.
As for "wow-mentality", I was very interested in the difference between DEs and normal quest system earlier, discussed the issue, read what developers posted and what videos were available on the issue and I think I understand DEs pretty well. They are an interesting, but not critical evolution of quests, an improvement over normal quests, but not as radical as some people tend to think. Also, this issue is not all that important to the question of trash mobs.
You see, it's not why you kill a mob and what rewards you get that makes it a "trash mob"; it's how you kill it and how many same mobs you have to kill in a same way. Certainly DEs which allow you to do other things than to kill mobs to complete them are helping... UNLESS you have to kill those same mobs to complete the DE. If you have to collect 10 nodes and those 10 nodes are guarded by 10 mobs you can't evade, it's not really different from killing 10 mobs, is it?
I am not sure if I would say GW2 have trashmobs, because if it does they are a lot tougher than in most other games.
The ones you easily fight in large numbers by yourself doesn't exists at least.
Wait we talking bout battles?
I thought he said a trash mob is after you kill someone, the next encounter with the same species or enemy type they must have different tactics, otherwise they are trash mobs.
I might be missing the point still.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
OP,
It sounds like you are more concerned with finishing quests quickly and levelling up to cap as quickly as possible, rather than playing the game.
This is not the right mindset for GW2 - its not about getting to level cap as quickly as possible, its about experiencing the story and the game. Levelling as quickly as possible to move onto the next area means you will miss out lots of the game content because you will miss many dynamic events that dont happen that often, or need certain conditions to trigger that werent there the first time you ran through a particular place on the map.
For me, GW2 is more about exploring the world and experiencing the things that happen as you explore.
It sounds like what you are asking for is every mob in the game to have different combat tactics...... which is just impossible. If you want that, play PvP
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
I'm still a little bit confused about your definition of "trash mob". You said they're for "artificially extending game time" and if that's what defines a trash mob, then no, there aren't any in GW2, from what I've seen. During my 2 beta weekends I never HAD to kill any mobs standing in my way / whatever to make progress. Of course, each mob doesn't provide a "new challenge", since developing that would take years for a game of this size.
However, if you want to, you can just kill one ettin monster, have it provide you a challenge, and then never kill one of those guys again. The game does not force "kill 10 ettins" type quests on you and as such, the feeling of grinding trash mobs is gone. The only times you'll be "forced" to fight large groups of similar monsters are dynamic events, but that doesn't mean the mobs will just stand there and wait until you kill them one by one - usually you're the one being assaulted during an event and that makes the kills a lot more fun.
In short, I think that you could be surprised by GW2 in this aspect, OP. I'm not one to say "you will like it" or anything like that, but the PvE is different from the usual cookie cutter MMO. In one word, it's interesting.
Sorry but the "trash mobs" you describe are in no way limited to MMO's.
By your definition, 80% of skyrim, mass effect, legend of zelda and every shooter and fighting game ever is just trash mobs.
What you seem to ignore is the fact that encountering a similar event or fight more than once can still be FUN. If you don't find the combat in a combat-oriented game fun then you really shouldn't be playing in the first place.
P.S. While Shadow of the Colussus was an awesome game, the fact there were so few encounters in the game made it quite boring outside of the boss fights. I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if there had been more encounters, even if they were repeated.
It's actually not quite that simple. You see in SWTOR and games like it sure you can stand there and let something gnaw on you until you die. In GW2 a couple of hits are enough to do it so there is a sense of urgency. Also, themeparks like SWTOR and the like all eventually give you abilities to kill things in two hits. That's not the case in GW2 you actually have to think about what you are doing, can't just target next, clicky clicky boom off to the next mob. These mobs think.
You're in the wrong genre.
trash mobs in the dungeons are sometimes harder than the bosses lol
i did the dungeon in story mode.....the doble ranger pull.....was crazy and the triple pull with ranger elementalist and mesmer ................no comments... lol
the fun thing about Gw2 dungeons is that u need to pay attention all the time
traps , thrash mobs that love to use aoe (and u gonna dodge and keep an eye on the ground)
no tanks , no healers......+ trash mobs = every pull is fun :P
Maybe you should stick to the tabletop rpgs. Mage: The Ascension is a great setting with diverse possibilities and almost infinite freedom.
Well you DID say " I can't expect satisfying gameplay from MMORPGs. It is, after all, just mmorpgs."; at that point you had not mentioned DA2.
I do understand what you mean, doing the exact same thing can get boring quick. However, to ask that no two encounters are ever the same is unreasonable for games with the scope of an MMO.
Luckily for you, the combat system in GW2 means that even fights against identical mobs can play out slightly different, while the class and skill system compounds this as you can switch your build and your combat approach on the fly.
Edit: Another thing is that areas will often be populated with many different types of mobs such as archers, meleers, spellcasters and even siege weapons that they use against you. So even if the mobs repeat themselves, the scenario doesnt
I'll try and tell you how it works in GW2.
The mobs behave diferently based on the tools the devs give them.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577828942371505802/F51B4B6481D2806F55E90ED8572AE9F86118FCE5/
See that little word under the target unit frame? It says "dazes." So there are a bunch of these little behaviors and skills they add to mobs based on these categories. Sometimes a mob will have more than one (most of the time). This gives most types of mobs a little bit of differentiation as you move through the gameworld.
@OP
You acknowledge that what you are asking for is ridiculous and nearly impossible, then ask if GW2 somehow manages to provide the impossible, then appear to try to portray GW2 as lacking because it fails to provide the impossible. While not quite the quintessential strawman argument, the tactic, effect and fallacy are similar.
You seem to want every single mob to be unique; if you ever encounter a duplicate afterward, it will henceforth be considered trash by your definition--which, by the way, differs drastically from most players' definition, where mobs become trash once they become boring, monotonous, and no longer stimulate your brain. By your definition, if there are 100 different mob types in the game, you will eventually encounter trash if there are more than 100 mobs total in the game. Sorry, but every single MMO in existence features tens of thousands of mobs and certainly not tens of thousands of unique mob types and behaviours. GW2 is no different in this regard. So to save you and all other posters their breath, no, neither GW2 nor any other MMO meets such absurd standards.
If you are actually interested in hearing how I or others feel GW2 encounters fare relative to more traditoinal notions of "trash," I will be happy to post a quick analysis of how engaging and stimulating I feel they are or are not. But at the moment, I'm not convinced you care.
We aren't holding MMOs to a lower standard. We are holding MMOs to a genre standard. Every genre has it's own standards, and games from other genres can never truly meet those standards, without actually becoming apart of that genre.
When applying MMO standards, Guild Wars 2 does encounters quite well. Every encounter is challenging. You can't just pull a group of mobs, AoE, and be on your way. The most I've managed to take on was 4, and that's was after I had been playing for hours, and learned a little bit about my class (and I had some luck).
With the scale of time and money investments that go into MMO development, expectig robust mob AI that are just like players at the beginning is a little too much. However, since development on an MMO never truly ends, AI can (and if GW1 is anything to judge by, will) improve over the lifespan of the MMO.
One important thing to note with MMO standards is that a game's quality is tied to the amount of content it has (and the quality of it). If a game launches with so little content, regardless of how well done that content is, the game will stagnate and will get terrible player reviews. As a result, that means less money for the developer. So the goal is to launch with enough content to satisfy the majority of the players until the next content release, and so they can make improvements behind the scenes.
And yes, with GW2, pretty much every profession has a different play style. If you try to play an ele like a mesmer, you will die. I've tried that myself. I died a lot.
If you've read my post, and that's what you've got from them, then I don't care to convince you.
try street fighter on xbox live
By this definition i am almost 100% sure you will get bored pretty fast.
The Heart quests areas will make you do the same few things over and over again with little to no change to them at all.
The DE varies a little more but it really boils down to fighting off wave after wave of mobs and even tho the mob type might varies from event to event the actual tactic does not. You also will have to escort NPCs quiet often and again defend them from waves of mobs which again only seem to raise in numbers.Some DE will have you gather items which you will do in areas with tons of trashmobs.The most fun DE are the ones were you fight a boss mob here you might want to use tactics to make the fight easier BUT most others don't seem to care and just zerg the bosses anyways which kinda means you will have to too.
That being said i dont think GW2 will offer longtime fun for PVE players (unless you are easily satisfied of course) but you could always do PVP you don't have to deal with Trashmobs and your tactic has to change very fast for PVP players i think GW2 will be fun for a long long time.