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Player Housing - Why has this feature gone from a priority to a feature most developers couldnt care

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  • LarsaLarsa NurembergPosts: 990Member


    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    ... Seem as if developers now days see no importance in this feature known as player housing. ... but why has this feature been tossed under the bus over the last few years?


    The answer is easy: tne target audience for current MMOs is not interested in that feature, or at least doesn't see it as an important feature.

    Thus no need to spend time and money on player housing during development.

    I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    a few games still have player housing but i was real disapointed about TESO not having it. :(

     

    heres a Mortal Online traielr to makeup for the lack of player housing in TESO

    you lost all credibility with using Mortal Online in your comment and for posting a beta video for a game that launched and still to this date hasn't been able to make the game even playable.

    i did play it for about a year, not always playable but still enjoyable and it has player housing. Also you lost all credibility for playing SWTOR.

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • ArawulfArawulf Guest Writer Freeland, MIPosts: 522Member Uncommon

    The anti-housing folks always regurgitate what the developers who won't implement it are repeating over, and over again. "It's bad for the community."  Somehow they feel as if their game needs huge hubs of people standing around in a city doing absolutely nothing when they could be crafting, organizing and decorating their own houses. 

    image

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    Originally posted by Arawulf

    The anti-housing folks always regurgitate what the developers who won't implement it are repeating over, and over again. "It's bad for the community."  Somehow they feel as if their game needs huge hubs of people standing around in a city doing absolutely nothing when they could be crafting, organizing and decorating their own houses. 

    what they mean by "its bad for the community" is that its an unproven mechanic (meaning not present in WOW) and the developer arent willing to take a risk on such a big feature that could potentially have unforseen consequence.

     

     

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    a few games still have player housing but i was real disapointed about TESO not having it. :(

     

    heres a Mortal Online traielr to makeup for the lack of player housing in TESO

    you lost all credibility with using Mortal Online in your comment and for posting a beta video for a game that launched and still to this date hasn't been able to make the game even playable.

    i did play it for about a year, not always playable but still enjoyable and it has player housing.

    i'll forever hate that game for tricking me into preordering it based on videos of "in game footage" that were no where near the actual level of game you got when you played it.

    not to mention the fact that the box copy i bought and recieved at my house was a unmarked disc with a beta build on the disc that was no longer valid or playable if installed.  with the "METAL CASING" that was touted on the preorder was actually a super thin cheap less then aluminum wrapping on a blank cd case that had TWO disc spaces with its ONE disc lol.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • LowcaianLowcaian NsjoPosts: 265Member

    It's very simple, design philosophy has been moving away from living breathing world to a series of maps that are for one thing only, killing stuff.

    image
  • HallowelHallowel somewhere in, MIPosts: 42Member

    The only thing I continue to miss and long for in all MMOs that I play or have played was the customizability, decoration level and enjoyment of player housing that was/is found in Ultima Online.  I really wish Neverwinter would do something that could compare.   I don't know how many times I came super close to reactivating one of my many UO accounts just to play around with the houses again.  Also, the only reason I continue to dabble in EQ2 every now and again is because of their level of decorating with their housing system.  I still love UO's how you can literally build your own house from plot to roof.

    ~Ra Hallowel

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by bingbongbros

    not to mention the fact that the box copy i bought and recieved at my house was a unmarked disc with a beta build on the disc that was no longer valid or playable if installed.  with the "METAL CASING" that was touted on the preorder was actually a super thin cheap less then aluminum wrapping on a blank cd case that had TWO disc spaces with its ONE disc lol.

    My favorite joke to this day was that it had a "sandbox artbook", because a lot of pages at the end were blank, and required players to fill then in. LOL.

     

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    a few games still have player housing but i was real disapointed about TESO not having it. :(

     

    heres a Mortal Online traielr to makeup for the lack of player housing in TESO

    you lost all credibility with using Mortal Online in your comment and for posting a beta video for a game that launched and still to this date hasn't been able to make the game even playable.

    i did play it for about a year, not always playable but still enjoyable and it has player housing.

    i'll forever hate that game for tricking me into preordering it based on videos of "in game footage" that were no where near the actual level of game you got when you played it.

    not to mention the fact that the box copy i bought and recieved at my house was a unmarked disc with a beta build on the disc that was no longer valid or playable if installed.  with the "METAL CASING" that was touted on the preorder was actually a super thin cheap less then aluminum wrapping on a blank cd case that had TWO disc spaces with its ONE disc lol.

    you could install the game via the disc after the first month of release. But you could try selling it on ebay i imagine if you announce the sale on MO forums someone would buy it from you.

     

    SV get a hard time over the digital and special edition versions of MO but truth is they had no plans to produce either until the community begged them to. They should of said no if they couldnt oblige with a quality product but instead gave in and they could only afford these shabby boxes etc.

    As for the discs the community demanded the discs be released even thoguh new builds of the game were appearing daily and no surprise the launcher was out of date by the time the discs arived and it took a month for them to have the old launchers cause you to dl the new launcher and palyers had to settle for dl the game via the DL version :(

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    a few games still have player housing but i was real disapointed about TESO not having it. :(

     

    heres a Mortal Online traielr to makeup for the lack of player housing in TESO

    you lost all credibility with using Mortal Online in your comment and for posting a beta video for a game that launched and still to this date hasn't been able to make the game even playable.

    i did play it for about a year, not always playable but still enjoyable and it has player housing.

    i'll forever hate that game for tricking me into preordering it based on videos of "in game footage" that were no where near the actual level of game you got when you played it.

    not to mention the fact that the box copy i bought and recieved at my house was a unmarked disc with a beta build on the disc that was no longer valid or playable if installed.  with the "METAL CASING" that was touted on the preorder was actually a super thin cheap less then aluminum wrapping on a blank cd case that had TWO disc spaces with its ONE disc lol.

    you could install the game via the disc after the first month of release. But you could try selling it on ebay i imagine if you announce the sale on MO forums someone would buy it from you.

    actually no I couldn't and can't.  The data on the disc was from an outdated build used in beta stages.  I know, because I tried to install it when I got it in the mail LATE after launch.  When it didn't work and after I was told the disc wasn't able to be used by an MO forum mod himself/herself I was directed to a way to digital download it.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member Common
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by bingbongbros
    Originally posted by deathshroud

    a few games still have player housing but i was real disapointed about TESO not having it. :(

     

    heres a Mortal Online traielr to makeup for the lack of player housing in TESO

    you lost all credibility with using Mortal Online in your comment and for posting a beta video for a game that launched and still to this date hasn't been able to make the game even playable.

    i did play it for about a year, not always playable but still enjoyable and it has player housing.

    i'll forever hate that game for tricking me into preordering it based on videos of "in game footage" that were no where near the actual level of game you got when you played it.

    not to mention the fact that the box copy i bought and recieved at my house was a unmarked disc with a beta build on the disc that was no longer valid or playable if installed.  with the "METAL CASING" that was touted on the preorder was actually a super thin cheap less then aluminum wrapping on a blank cd case that had TWO disc spaces with its ONE disc lol.

    Sorry m8 but I LOLed at your expense :)

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
    image

  • SuprGamerXSuprGamerX Montreal, QCPosts: 531Member

     Heh , since when did housing become important?  Let the Devs start creating a game where a casual player doesn't reach end game inside of a month. Once that's settled out , then work on garbage features to attract some koreans, like housing.

  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member Common
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

     Heh , since when did housing become important?  Let the Devs start creating a game where a casual player doesn't reach end game inside of a month. Once that's settled out , then work on garbage features to attract some koreans, like housing.

    MEH! I want a game that a 'casual' player never reaches endgame :)

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
    image

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

     Heh , since when did housing become important?  Let the Devs start creating a game where a casual player doesn't reach end game inside of a month. Once that's settled out , then work on garbage features to attract some koreans, like housing.

    actually koreans don't really give a shit about housing, they prefer to play games that make them grind non stop.

    housing in mmo's has always been more of an American desire.  Like EQ2, their housing was one of it's selling points and everyone loves it.

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • ArawulfArawulf Guest Writer Freeland, MIPosts: 522Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by Arawulf

    The anti-housing folks always regurgitate what the developers who won't implement it are repeating over, and over again. "It's bad for the community."  Somehow they feel as if their game needs huge hubs of people standing around in a city doing absolutely nothing when they could be crafting, organizing and decorating their own houses. 

    what they mean by "its bad for the community" is that its an unproven mechanic (meaning not present in WOW) and the developer arent willing to take a risk on such a big feature that could potentially have unforseen consequence.

     

     

    Well, that's what Blizzard has been saying - they want busy city hubs.  If you're actually doing something in your own house, you can't stand in Stormwind or Orgrimmar showing off the sparkle pony you bought for $25.

    image

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

     Heh , since when did housing become important?  Let the Devs start creating a game where a casual player doesn't reach end game inside of a month. Once that's settled out , then work on garbage features to attract some koreans, like housing.

    Psh, regardless of how long it takes to get to endgame, at some point people are going to tire of rehashing that last bit of content. Housing was, in games that did it *right*, incentive to keep playing in order to collect and show off basically *anything* as a trophy. As stated earlier, it's kept people subbed way longer than the games rightfully should have.

    I don't expect anyone who never played UO or SWG to understand it, because you're on the outside looking in. We been there, done that, and it stuck.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    It's very simple, design philosophy has been moving away from living breathing world to a series of maps that are for one thing only, killing stuff.

    This.

     

    Besides most complex housing was done in either sandbox games (UO, SWG) or in sandparks / themeparks with vast open worlds and freedom like Vanguard.

    Normal themeparks - well there was only one AAA game that was "big on housing" - EQ2.  Still remember EQ2 sold worse than EQ1 and while this was due to diffrent game market (WoW...) and mistakes SOE made with EQ2 design, concept and many things - guys in corporations don't watch it same way players do.

    They see big budget game EQ2 that released in more or less same time as WoW. 

    EQ2 had housing and WoW didn't , WoW earned multiple times more money. Result = housing is not important.

     

    Of course that kind of thinking is bollocks and did not bring great results either (as most big productions struggled to keep playerbase few months after release).

     

    ===========

     

    Anyway don't expect meaningful or complex or even big housing in themeparks in future.

    There will be no housing, or it will be sorry excuses for housing like Swtor ship or Lotro instanced neighbourhoods.

    Maybe few of them will have bit more complex housing like Aion does currently. Remember this is game that is hugely succesful in Korea and Asia and It had in it's best times 4 mln subs.  So that is kinda exception.

     

    Your best bet for meaningful housing that is actually IN-GAME and not in some #142 housing instance that almost never is seen by anyone else than owner - are sandbox or sandpark games.

    Only AAA sandpark production beign made atm is AA, but don't count on western release earlier than Q4 2013 or 2014 imo.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    In a themepark design, it is unnatural to anchor a player to one place with a home when the rest of your design is focused on moving them on a constant zone-to-zone path.  Similarly, when the general tendency is to on-demand instancing, the concept of player-created landmarks is a little hard to mix in naturally. 

    There's the coding/troubleshooting overhead to consider in the cost-benefit of giving players what is essentially a mini level-editor. 

    That said, I greatly miss my UO houses - there are good reasons why "The Sims" was such a gigantic success.  Letting those fall was by far the most gut-wrentching part of unsubscribing.  If the finale of my stay hadn't felt like a "stay subscribed or we burn your house down" shakedown, I might have been more willing to return for visits.

     

     

  • deathshrouddeathshroud londonPosts: 1,366Member
    Originally posted by Arawulf
    Originally posted by deathshroud
    Originally posted by Arawulf

    The anti-housing folks always regurgitate what the developers who won't implement it are repeating over, and over again. "It's bad for the community."  Somehow they feel as if their game needs huge hubs of people standing around in a city doing absolutely nothing when they could be crafting, organizing and decorating their own houses. 

    what they mean by "its bad for the community" is that its an unproven mechanic (meaning not present in WOW) and the developer arent willing to take a risk on such a big feature that could potentially have unforseen consequence.

     

     

    Well, that's what Blizzard has been saying - they want busy city hubs.  If you're actually doing something in your own house, you can't stand in Stormwind or Orgrimmar showing off the sparkle pony you bought for $25.

    ah the way you worded it i tohguht you meant mmos in general but you meant specifically wow. Which to alot of people i guess, its the only mmo they are aware of. Main problem with WOW is there no insentive for blizzard to attempt anything new becuase they have a monopoly on the genre. Why should they waste valuable development time when they can keep knocking out the same expansions every couple of years and make billions.

     

    I think archeage may turn out to be a huge success becuase it ties sandbox and themepark together. Player housing with levels and quests = $$

    there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by SuprGamerX

     Heh , since when did housing become important?  Let the Devs start creating a game where a casual player doesn't reach end game inside of a month. Once that's settled out , then work on garbage features to attract some koreans, like housing.

    Psh, regardless of how long it takes to get to endgame, at some point people are going to tire of rehashing that last bit of content. Housing was, in games that did it *right*, incentive to keep playing in order to collect and show off basically *anything* as a trophy. As stated earlier, it's kept people subbed way longer than the games rightfully should have.

    I don't expect anyone who never played UO or SWG to understand it, because you're on the outside looking in. We been there, done that, and it stuck.

    +1

    Feeling from owning my first small house in UO cannot really compare to anything else I got in mmorpg's.

    Not that it was better feeling, but it was really good and diffrent feeling.

    Besides it was in open world - there was no hopping between servers or instances - house was always there in same place, people that were going hunt or tame an animal were crossing near it, people who were going to fight some other guild or explore that orc camp were also going near etc

     

    Hell I could even place MY OWN NPC (that had to be paid) near my house that sold items I crafted or found in my adventures.  I could even set it to buy some things I needed. 

    There were no centralized trading AH like in some kind of modern stock market.

     

    Ehh good times and much more possiblities - than farming instances or valor points in arenas.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    That said, I greatly miss my UO houses - there are good reasons why "The Sims" was such a gigantic success.  Letting those fall was by far the most gut-wrentching part of unsubscribing.  If the finale of my stay hadn't felt like a "stay subscribed or we burn your house down" shakedown, I might have been more willing to return for visits.

     

     

    Well if you don't do it like that then houses will swarm whole world and it will be bad.  It actually happened in UO since they cave in eventually to similar like your demands.

    If you limit places where you can put house - then if houses will not disappear some time after you unsubsribe then after few weeks there will be no more spaces / slots left for new players.

     

    There is one solution = not best and does not solve all problems but still better imo.

    When you unsubscribe then after lets say 2 months your house automatically disappear from world BUT is sent to your bank as an item.

    When you lets say get back - you have to find new place for it (which might not be easy, especially if those place would be limited) but when you do you can place this your old house with all things inside and outside it and don't have to build it from scratch.

     

    I am amazed that this was not implemented in let's say UO.  Well at least not in times I was playing it.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by fenistil

    There is one solution = not best and does not solve all problems but still better imo.

    When you unsubscribe then after lets say 2 months your house automatically disappear from world BUT is sent to your bank as an item.

    When you lets say get back - you have to find new place for it but when you do you can place this your old house with all things inside and outside it and don't have to build it from scratch.

    SWG did that, and it was a pretty cool event that all players could take part in. I believe there was a point system as well, but either way, it enthused people to go to every corner of the globe and call in a fleet to bomb decrepit houses off the face of the planets. They'd come down, make a big boom, and then the houses - along with all the items inside - would be sent to the unsubbed player's inventory, to where it could be put down again someplace with all the deco intact.

    Very cool/smart thing, that.

    ~and before anyone asks, it was post-NGE, so there was a crazy amount of ghost town going on at the time.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • LowcaianLowcaian NsjoPosts: 265Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by fenistil

    There is one solution = not best and does not solve all problems but still better imo.

    When you unsubscribe then after lets say 2 months your house automatically disappear from world BUT is sent to your bank as an item.

    When you lets say get back - you have to find new place for it but when you do you can place this your old house with all things inside and outside it and don't have to build it from scratch.

    SWG did that, and it was a pretty cool event that all players could take part in. I believe there was a point system as well, but either way, it enthused people to go to every corner of the globe and call in a fleet to bomb decrepit houses off the face of the planets. They'd come down, make a big boom, and then the houses - along with all the items inside - would be sent to the unsubbed player's inventory, to where it could be put down again someplace with all the deco intact.

    Very cool/smart thing, that.

    ~and before anyone asks, it was post-NGE, so there was a crazy amount of ghost town going on at the time.

    The house packup yes, it was done as an event so you could get badges for it. It should have been done more often, every six months or so but that is only a matter of tweaking the numbers and soes not detract from the concept itself.

    image
  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by fenistil

    There is one solution = not best and does not solve all problems but still better imo.

    When you unsubscribe then after lets say 2 months your house automatically disappear from world BUT is sent to your bank as an item.

    When you lets say get back - you have to find new place for it but when you do you can place this your old house with all things inside and outside it and don't have to build it from scratch.

    SWG did that, and it was a pretty cool event that all players could take part in. I believe there was a point system as well, but either way, it enthused people to go to every corner of the globe and call in a fleet to bomb decrepit houses off the face of the planets. They'd come down, make a big boom, and then the houses - along with all the items inside - would be sent to the unsubbed player's inventory, to where it could be put down again someplace with all the deco intact.

    Very cool/smart thing, that.

    ~and before anyone asks, it was post-NGE, so there was a crazy amount of ghost town going on at the time.

    Well I guess there was something good that NGE bring in aside of many terrible changes.

    Good to hear and thanks for info.

    I hope that if anyone make a game with open housing in future - there will be similar mechanic / solution - to unsub / house overcrowd since day 1.

    Not only that - many bad things were repaired / made better with time in those old titles, hope future games will use those solutions instead of recreating old mistakes (like MO, DFO and similar titles did- well aside of fact they never really got chance in mainstream due to low-production values and overall terribelness ).

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

     

    What turn of events causes this?

    Enough games released housing (Big New Feature Keen!) to huge fanfare, only to watch their playerbases view it as "meh" six months later?

    Too many games with Empty Wasteland Boomtown Slums Syndrome, I think.  The future became viewed by developers as "unimportant and unnecessary" after Blizzard ignored it.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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