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Turbine threatens to ban players for pursuing refunds of their new expansion

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  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    As soon as content they were promised is cut, they HAVE to give you a refund is how I see it. Sure when they give you access early I can see why it can be bad, but really I don't see anything they did give, a lot of the benefits seemed more related to goods after or that can be taken away. Just take them away and give people what they paid for, otherwise be willing to refund them. If you promise me gold for my money and you send me bronze, I sure as hell am will want a refund.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXPosts: 3,483Member Uncommon

    I guess it's amazing that while I never purchased a Lifetime account, but rather 2 normal accounts, that I am still enjoying every aspect of the game. So now, the new expansion failed to deliver some instances? You want your money back and they can't stop you, but they can render your account unplayable. I'll agree, Turbine probably crossed the line by taking out said content after purchases had already been made. So it boils down to, when did you purchase it and when did Turbine retract the statement in FAQ that instances were no longer included. Theres a lot of information your not telling us, so those things need to be clarifed before I'll point my finger.

    I'm a veteran MMO player and every game I've ever played, had a EULA and every one of those specifically states, game design is subject to change up to including post release. I don't want to rain on your parade, but thats just how MMOs work and while it seems like dirty business, it's legit. Turbine isn't the only gaming company to do this sort of thing, but it's not like they are doing it on a regular basis, since this is the first I've heard of it.

    Besides, the game is F2P, you can't tell me Turbine is being unreasonable with their pay model. I'm really sick of people whining about the cost of expansions and cash shop in a game that doesn't have a monthly fee. Just wait till GW2 releases, cause I bet they went F2P with cash shop for the very same reason, they'll make more money than a base monthly sub fee because there are alot of players with money to spend who make up for us cheap bastards who have no problem playing a F2P game without added benefits.

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  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    They are desperate.  Lotro was a great game for quite a while, but it is aging now, and Turbine's updates and expansions have been lackluster at best.  They've done little or nothing to breath life into this game, especially at the lower levels, since going free to play.  

    New or re-rolling players are met with practically dead areas for the first long stretch of the game up until you start hitting the first expansion, Moria.  Then you may see a few more people.  They also haven't gone over the game in the lower levels and adjusted faction quests for players who cannot find groups to with which to complete them.

    The one thing about this game for me has always been that it's just "meh".  I mean it's enjoyable, and it's polished, but there is nothing all that exciting about it, especially in a market that has moved on.  Bitch and complain as you will about WoW and the changes Blizz have made, but it has kept them in the money all this time.

    I think this may also be the down side of being locked into an existing IP.  Lotro could use it's own Cataclysm to liven things up, but that won't fit into the LOTR lore.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    Just wait till GW2 releases, cause I bet they went F2P with cash shop for the very same reason, they'll make more money than a base monthly sub fee because there are alot of players with money to spend who make up for us cheap bastards who have no problem playing a F2P game without added benefits.

    Please dont speak about games you have no clue about. Guild wars is and always was a buy to play game, GW2 followed its same model.I have seen its cash shop and its lol, unlike turbine pay2win shop. You just buy the box and you go play. Have you ever played GW? Have you ever seen its "cash shop"? Have you ever played GW2 beta, or prepurchased? 

    Your statements about that game is false, and completely based on your opinion rather than facts.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Liknvi

    http://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/1410-how-turbine-values-their-fans/

    This is the most active thread on this topic, and I couldn't do this without the help I've received from the lovely folks at lotrocommunity.com and MMORPG.com.

    Turbine has yet to respond to my reply to their absurd "It was a search-only FAQ..." rebuttal.

    Thank you all for all the links and advice you've given me!

    Of course the wargs appear lovely when they smell blood and are invited to hunt The Man :p

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by rdrakken

    I lost all respect for Turbine when they chose to go paytrap with LOTRO...it went against everything the industry knows. DDO was a massive hit with F2P because it was F2P with a store with great items...they made a TON of money like all really good F2Ps do, no paytrap has ever been close to being as successful(Money wise) as the better F2Ps.

    Turbine deserves to lose money for doing what they did with LOTRO, the game should be making more than Runes of Magic and Atlantica Online COMBINED...instead, it isnt even doing half what either of those games are making. Its the same with Funcom and AoC, Sony and EQ2 and even DCUO....all of them should be making far more than any of the F2Ps out there because of the quality and depth they bring.

    Instead, they are making a fraction of what they would be because its just a paytrap...games that arent good enough to sub for in the first place, which is why the populations dropped so much, makes no sense to use a paytrap model with games that are near death.

    Agreed. For a Lotr genre, a mmo should be making 2nd to WoW (if WoW is still #1, that is) on the playerbase+money income. Lotr has an enormous amount of fans, but turbine has failed to deliver on many levels. People could say this isnt a pvp game, but for those lore-nerds isnt monsterplay part of the lore? Fighting the army of the eye on the well-known map ettenmoors and such.

    When you said turbine deserves to lose money, they alrady are and going down really fast hence why free2play came. Not much people respect this company  not only on a personal level (being lyed to, financial, poor expansions), but for the outdated gameplay (Combat, graphics).

    I have no sympathy for any turbine employes and i hope they get shut down for all the backstabbing they did to us loyal Lotr fans.

    Don't forget many Turbine fans, including myself, never forgot the betrayal of Asheron's Call 2's "Legion" expansion... release the expansion, make people pay for it, and then shut down the whole game a couple of months later without refunds. Some people bash SoE or EA for being very bad money greedy companies, but Turbine beat them both hands down concerning betrayal towards loyal customers.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • teethteeth Atlanta, GAPosts: 67Member

    Ah, I do believe this will be the final red flag for me, in regards to Turbine. I already had a foot and 1/2 out the door, but now it's both feet. Good luck, Turbine. Maybe you and Frogster can hook up sometime and trade "success" stories.

  • newbihacknewbihack Olympia, WAPosts: 36Member

    It sux when you want a refund, this issue must be solved. yea my only solution is check some footage and forums before you buy your product. and yea digital items doesn't get refunded and there is no law that say such thing about refunding. So careful when buying new games or softwares.

     

    I have played many games and worst of all you cant refund something that you already opened. steam provide a refund if your digtial copy is damaged during downloading, or when game is closed and you cant play it like any other online games.

    edit:

    yea and one more thing as a begginer accountant why the hell it says account management? in their massage this is should be a sale management not the accountant manager to do this. becuase accountant only responsible on recording transications and not responsible to take  sales on an item? or I am wrong?

     

  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

    I read the Op's posts on here as well as the lotro fan site that was linked in this thread.

     

    I know the OP has gone back and forth about wondering if she shold stay or leave. My advice would be to cut your losses and get what money and respect back that you can and never give Turbine a chance to do this to you again.

     

    They have done it before, they will do it in the future and the only thing they will change is the methods so they can insure they are able to get away with it in the future.

     

    The other thing that could happen if you stay is you will get banned for some ambiguous "behavior" issue as some dissenters have before. They use this tactic to shut down the most vocal of critics while trying to put the ban category under a violation of the TOS, ensuring they have the right of it if you try to come back for remedy. Ask around, you will find people who thought they have "won" only to be banned later under dubious circumstances.

     

    Don't fall for their chap bribes because 10-20 dolars worth of free Turbone points is much less than you will spend in the long run with money, time and aggrivation. Take this victory and move on to a game run by a company that is not so duplicitious. There are not many, but a few good eggs out there.

     

    Good luck in whatever you do.

  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Lynchburg, VAPosts: 294Member Uncommon

    This isn't the first time Turbine has done this with LOTRO.  I have a lifetime account, but I uninstalled and deleted my billing info after they did this with Mirkwood.  They deserve everything that happens to them.

    ___________________________
    Have flask; will travel.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by DashiDMV

    I read the Op's posts on here as well as the lotro fan site that was linked in this thread.

     

    I know the OP has gone back and forth about wondering if she shold stay or leave. My advice would be to cut your losses and get what money and respect back that you can and never give Turbine a chance to do this to you again.

     

    They have done it before, they will do it in the future and the only thing they will change is the methods so they can insure they are able to get away with it in the future.

     

    The other thing that could happen if you stay is you will get banned for some ambiguous "behavior" issue as some dissenters have before. They use this tactic to shut down the most vocal of critics while trying to put the ban category under a violation of the TOS, ensuring they have the right of it if you try to come back for remedy. Ask around, you will find people who thought they have "won" only to be banned later under dubious circumstances.

     

    Don't fall for their chap bribes because 10-20 dolars worth of free Turbone points is much less than you will spend in the long run with money, time and aggrivation. Take this victory and move on to a game run by a company that is not so duplicitious. There are not many, but a few good eggs out there.

     

    Good luck in whatever you do.

    Great post. +1

  • Hordequester8Hordequester8 Fort Wayne, INPosts: 54Member

    I have to agree with Turbine on this one. The FAQ is not written by the same people that write the expansions or the descriptions for the expansions. I saw no such claim of features on the expansion purchase only on an error that was corrected in the FAQ.

    Their policy has always been possible suspension/bans for reverse charges as is every company I've ever dealt with for online purchases. If I recall, it's also stated in the EULA and I believe the last expansion I looked at also stated no refunds after entering the key to the account.

    Over-reaction for already clearly stated policies.

     

    If the feature were stated on the purchase, then I would change my opinion.

  • MisatoTremorMisatoTremor HamburgPosts: 62Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by DashiDMV

    *snip*

    The other thing that could happen if you stay is you will get banned for some ambiguous "behavior" issue as some dissenters have before. They use this tactic to shut down the most vocal of critics while trying to put the ban category under a violation of the TOS, ensuring they have the right of it if you try to come back for remedy. Ask around, you will find people who thought they have "won" only to be banned later under dubious circumstances.

    *snip*


    First of all: I agree that is a great post. +1

    The company behaviour you are describing in the quoted paragraph is - sadly - becoming more and more common nowadays. If someone is a pain for your business and even if that one is fully right in being so, shut them up. If you can't do it the direct way, find another. And if you can do harm to them on that way, too, do it.

    Some time ago this was somthing done by so called "shady businesses" but it seems this will soon be or already is a "best business practice".

    I think - besides all those customer rights organisations - it has never been easier for large companies to treat customers like mud under your feet and getting away with it smiling.


    Originally posted by KamiKazeTG

    I have to agree with Turbine on this one. The FAQ is not written by the same people that write the expansions or the descriptions for the expansions. I saw no such claim of features on the expansion purchase only on an error that was corrected in the FAQ.

    *snip*


    Since when it has been a customers fault if 2 parts of a company don't sync their information output?

    And a FAQ directly linked from the purchase page and answering questions directly related to the purchase in question is relevant to that purchase.

    Misato - TankDoc for Life
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  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    This whole situation sucks pretty badly. I remember when SOE tried to shit on us with the Trials of Obi Wan expansion. Even when you get your money back it leaves that nasty taste in your mouth. These things should just never happen.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by DashiDMV

    The other thing that could happen if you stay is you will get banned for some ambiguous "behavior" issue as some dissenters have before. They use this tactic to shut down the most vocal of critics while trying to put the ban category under a violation of the TOS, ensuring they have the right of it if you try to come back for remedy. Ask around, you will find people who thought they have "won" only to be banned later under dubious circumstances.

    This is true. While it didn't happen to me, I witnessed this first hand. And that happens since "sapience" took over the customer support team though... even more sad if we consider this game had one of the best customer support of all MMOs before, when "patience" was in charge.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

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  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,300Member Uncommon

    [mod edit  - stay constructive]

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?464108-A-word-about-the-Riders-of-Rohan-Pre-Purchase-packs here is shown that the instance clusters are included with the RoR pack. THough probably not released with RoR, it'll be included with an update. Much like with the RoI expansion...

    And yeah, I can't blame Turbine for banning players who'll make a refund. After all, with the pre-purchase you've already had some goodies from the RoR expansion...

    AsRock 990FX Extreme3
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  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    When the last expansion rise of isengard rolled out I did not buy it for me or the wife.  Even though I have a lifetime sub to the game we not played it since som rolled out.

    When the last expac went live we did not buy it, 2 days after it went live we both got an email saying our accounts had been temp banned due to suspicious activity.  I had to actually call turbine on the phone to get it resolved.  What I found out was the went thought and temp banned a lot of accounts via an automated process.  The cs rep on the phone was like well I don't see any strange use of your account, we had a process that identified accounts, looks like your account was one of the ones accidently identified. There was no accident, they did that on purpose, you did not buy the xpac here is a ban.

    So yes the guy has a reason to be worried about being banned.  Heck my account got banned because of lack of use. How funny is that.

     

     

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Reizla

    [mod edit]

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?464108-A-word-about-the-Riders-of-Rohan-Pre-Purchase-packs here is shown that the instance clusters are included with the RoR pack. THough probably not released with RoR, it'll be included with an update. Much like with the RoI expansion...

    And yeah, I can't blame Turbine for banning players who'll make a refund. After all, with the pre-purchase you've already had some goodies from the RoR expansion...

    It actually wasn't bs or trolling because at the time of OP's post they were doing just that banning people for requesting a refund and not answeing the public when asked about why they took out instance clusters from all of the expansions. It was reported in the news and Turbine hadn't yet posted apologies to the public yet or offered info on what they were going to do with the clusters or points yet. 

    OP wasn't trolling just reacting to the situation. It's really sad tho that initially they didn't want to repair their own mistake and cause such confusion with the public by letting this slide for a couple of days whilst charging the highest price in expansions anyone's ever seen in a long time in this industry.

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by DashiDMV

    The other thing that could happen if you stay is you will get banned for some ambiguous "behavior" issue as some dissenters have before. They use this tactic to shut down the most vocal of critics while trying to put the ban category under a violation of the TOS, ensuring they have the right of it if you try to come back for remedy. Ask around, you will find people who thought they have "won" only to be banned later under dubious circumstances.

    This is true. While it didn't happen to me, I witnessed this first hand. And that happens since "sapience" took over the customer support team though... even more sad if we consider this game had one of the best customer support of all MMOs before, when "patience" was in charge.

    Wow, im so glad im not the only one agreed to the fullest. Sapience is one of the worst "Leader" of customer support i have ever saw in a game and in real life. I remember when the forums wasnt full of sensetive backstabbing people who just report because they know they will recieve a new system of  "infractions". I also remember when the customer support on the forums didnt bann people for every little thing they said, including calling out turbine. Sapience takes everything you say and twists it into "trolling" + "Violation of CoC" and takes the banhammer out. Same goes with ingame GMs, they used to be patient and sympathetic but now ever since RoI everything gone sh**. 

    Im glad GW2 is coming out so i dont have to deal with all this nonsense, at least, from my experience, they arent 80year old virgins and ban people for everything lol. The devs in that game were trolling people ( including myself) and messing around, after all this is just a game not a interview at an ivy league university.

  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Common
    Originally posted by 3-4thElf

    I don't think this will help the conversation or not; but in general I find pre-orders to be a scam.

    Early access to beta being a "prize" is just as bad as this in my opinion.

    Yeah, I tend to agree.  Pride and integrity of the product goes downhill after "X" amount of dollars are reached in pre-order sales.

     

    "We met or sales quota, who cares if we take out the new instance".

  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 3,847Member Uncommon

    Normally I'm against chargebacks when someone just doesn't like the product, in this case, however, Turbine has failed and doesn't have a leg to stand on if this were taken to court.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Reizla

    [mod edit]

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?464108-A-word-about-the-Riders-of-Rohan-Pre-Purchase-packs here is shown that the instance clusters are included with the RoR pack. THough probably not released with RoR, it'll be included with an update. Much like with the RoI expansion...

    And yeah, I can't blame Turbine for banning players who'll make a refund. After all, with the pre-purchase you've already had some goodies from the RoR expansion...

    To be fair, this post was made as a result of the complaints like that of the OP, they had never made this clear prior to this posting and it was made days after the OP post.  

  • zyklonianzyklonian el paso, TXPosts: 51Member

    To the OP cut your losses and move to another game.  ive played Lotro since SoA and i can tell you the quality of their product is a mere shadow of its former self.  Their new "hybrid" (lol) ftp is a scam and everyone knows it.  The isengard xpac is still broken in every aspect.  PvP is pay to win.  the dragon raid is still broken after multiple attepts to fix it.  ( how hard is it to fix a 2 phase fight with 3 mechanics)  and dont even get me started with the T2 tower raid.  everything started going downhill with MoM and i can only imagine RoR state will be a disgrace.  Turbine is adding a new engine for mounted combat when they can even get the current engine to run smoothly.  What a joke.  Great game idea run by a horrible company.

     

    PS real actors for rohan cut scenes?  how much did that cost?  put that money into your dev team

  • RyukanRyukan Mason, MIPosts: 706Member Uncommon

    So Turbine posted in the original preorder faq that the instance cluster would be free to all purchasers of the expansion, then changed it and claimed that they "made a mistake"...OR they just flat out misled people under the guise of a "mistake". Now the shit is hitting the fan and Turbine is acting butthurt over the refunds being sought. Suck it up Turbine.

    How did the statement that the instance cluster would be free to everyone who preordered the expansion evre make it into the original preorder faq? Either it's a rope-a-dope by Turbine which is equal to lying and fraud, or it is a colossal fuck up by Turbine which they should have just rolled with rather than redact it, attempt pathetic damage control and then act butthurt when people are pissed and want their money back.

    Frankly, my money is on the rope-a-dope because I have a hard time believing they just "accidentally" left that part in the original preorder faq. If so, they are incompetent as all hell.

    I'm just glad I quit playing after RoI (disappointment), I just wish I quit playing before RoI because I could have saved myself $40.

  • zyklonianzyklonian el paso, TXPosts: 51Member

    Turbine has been in damage control since they announced Mirkwood.  The quality has gone down and the price has gone up.  (real actors for cutscenes lol wtf i still can get over this)

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