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If it is true that SWTOR cost near 500mil...

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  • GrinnzGrinnz Utica, NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon

    even if it did....doubt it lost money......

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by itgrowls
     

    Why is it so hard for people to accept that people are leaving the game reducing the number of subs and thus causing them to earn less, not being able to pay back their debt and cause the stockholders to run, there is after all only so long that a company can put out crap numbers and misleading interviews before the true numbers get back to the stockholders/investors and they have a jawdropping reaction to how bad their investment actually was compared to (im sure) the glowing "we can't fail due to the IP" presentation someone made to get this rolling.

    It's really quite simple. Bad design, customers left, stocks dive.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1927586551x0x485895/defa6d06-9122-49bd-8bcb-c20a71076abf/Q1%20FY12%20Earnings%20Release%207.26.11%20FINAL.PDF

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

    Well, yes EA does have a "strong" lineup of games, mainly centered around the overly reused sports games. But there's no way you can say that the 1.3 billion dollar investment into BioWare and SWTOR is effecting them positively.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by itgrowls
     

    Why is it so hard for people to accept that people are leaving the game reducing the number of subs and thus causing them to earn less, not being able to pay back their debt and cause the stockholders to run, there is after all only so long that a company can put out crap numbers and misleading interviews before the true numbers get back to the stockholders/investors and they have a jawdropping reaction to how bad their investment actually was compared to (im sure) the glowing "we can't fail due to the IP" presentation someone made to get this rolling.

    It's really quite simple. Bad design, customers left, stocks dive.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1927586551x0x485895/defa6d06-9122-49bd-8bcb-c20a71076abf/Q1%20FY12%20Earnings%20Release%207.26.11%20FINAL.PDF

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

    Well, yes EA does have a "strong" lineup of games, mainly centered around the overly reused sports games. But there's no way you can say that the 1.3 billion dollar investment into BioWare and SWTOR is effecting them positively.


    Didn't ME3 do pretty well, and haven't they made a lucrative studio deal for a movie and an anime?

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    Originally posted by SpectralHunt
    I should visit this site more. People are throwing out $500 million like its chump change and that companies can just toss out that kind of budget whenever they want. It's not monopoly money. Even major movies don't get budgets for half a billion dollars. I always figured TOR cost around $100-150 million which is still a ridiculous number. And please OP, tagging the thread "if it's true" doesn't absolve you of making such an outrageous statement. Let me give you an example. "the OP is actually a 300 pound basement dweller with no life who creates drama threads. If it is true, that explains this thread."

    Actually I would say your assertion has a better shot of being true than the OP's premise does.

     

    So the general consensus was 150M, and maybe 200M. Louse called it out as 300M, and now we have folks living in fantasy land & crying out 500M.  I wonder what the story will be 10 yrs from now? The game wont have died out overnight, or at 6 months, or a yr, 2 yrs, or 3 yrs like so many predictions.....is the production cost gonna be all that is left to carry on about?

    Actually the 500 million speculation was long before the game was even released. I'm pretty sure even their company gloated about how much money was actually invested into this game. Anyways the buyout of Bioware set them back and easy 800 million off the back.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • rdrakkenrdrakken Gotham, FLPosts: 426Member
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Trionicus
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by itgrowls
     

    Why is it so hard for people to accept that people are leaving the game reducing the number of subs and thus causing them to earn less, not being able to pay back their debt and cause the stockholders to run, there is after all only so long that a company can put out crap numbers and misleading interviews before the true numbers get back to the stockholders/investors and they have a jawdropping reaction to how bad their investment actually was compared to (im sure) the glowing "we can't fail due to the IP" presentation someone made to get this rolling.

    It's really quite simple. Bad design, customers left, stocks dive.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1927586551x0x485895/defa6d06-9122-49bd-8bcb-c20a71076abf/Q1%20FY12%20Earnings%20Release%207.26.11%20FINAL.PDF

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

    Well, yes EA does have a "strong" lineup of games, mainly centered around the overly reused sports games. But there's no way you can say that the 1.3 billion dollar investment into BioWare and SWTOR is effecting them positively.


    Didn't ME3 do pretty well, and haven't they made a lucrative studio deal for a movie and an anime?

    I'm not saying it didn't at the same time I'm not saying it did. As far as I care I'm sticking on topic and talking about the SWTOR investment not ME3. However, I've heard mixed feelings over ME3 so it could go either way in my opinion.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by itgrowls
     

    Why is it so hard for people to accept that people are leaving the game reducing the number of subs and thus causing them to earn less, not being able to pay back their debt and cause the stockholders to run, there is after all only so long that a company can put out crap numbers and misleading interviews before the true numbers get back to the stockholders/investors and they have a jawdropping reaction to how bad their investment actually was compared to (im sure) the glowing "we can't fail due to the IP" presentation someone made to get this rolling.

    It's really quite simple. Bad design, customers left, stocks dive.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1927586551x0x485895/defa6d06-9122-49bd-8bcb-c20a71076abf/Q1%20FY12%20Earnings%20Release%207.26.11%20FINAL.PDF

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

    Well, yes EA does have a "strong" lineup of games, mainly centered around the overly reused sports games. But there's no way you can say that the 1.3 billion dollar investment into BioWare and SWTOR is effecting them positively.

    1.3B?

     

    The game cost 150 to 200M to make. 300 if ya listen to Louse. EA paid 860M for BW. Where the fuck do you come up with 1.3B?

     

    Since purchasing BW, we have seen ME2, Me3, DA:O, and DA 2.....I suppose those dont count either, and only drive up costs?

     

    EA will more than make their money not just on TOR, but on the BW purchase as well. To say otherwise shows the extreme negative bias.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • bestman22bestman22 live oak, FLPosts: 90Member

    ehh dont worry... they will recoup their losses.

     

     

     

    I mean after server merges going from the 171 servers listed on TORstatus down to like 25ish they should have atleast 75 slightly used servers for sale now lol.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by itgrowls
     

    Why is it so hard for people to accept that people are leaving the game reducing the number of subs and thus causing them to earn less, not being able to pay back their debt and cause the stockholders to run, there is after all only so long that a company can put out crap numbers and misleading interviews before the true numbers get back to the stockholders/investors and they have a jawdropping reaction to how bad their investment actually was compared to (im sure) the glowing "we can't fail due to the IP" presentation someone made to get this rolling.

    It's really quite simple. Bad design, customers left, stocks dive.

    http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/1927586551x0x485895/defa6d06-9122-49bd-8bcb-c20a71076abf/Q1%20FY12%20Earnings%20Release%207.26.11%20FINAL.PDF

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

    Well, yes EA does have a "strong" lineup of games, mainly centered around the overly reused sports games. But there's no way you can say that the 1.3 billion dollar investment into BioWare and SWTOR is effecting them positively.

    1.3B?

     

    The game cost 150 to 200M to make. 300 if ya listen to Louse. EA paid 860M for BW. Where the fuck do you come up with 1.3B?

     

    Since purchasing BW, we have seen ME2, Me3, DA:O, and DA 2.....I suppose those dont count either, and only drive up costs?

     

    EA will more than make their money not just on TOR, but on the BW purchase as well. To say otherwise shows the extreme negative bias.

    [mod edit]  I'm basing it off this OP I've heard speculations from 150-500m so let's just say it's anywhere from 950-1.3B dollars worth of an investment. Either way you look at it. It was a bad choice. However I would like to state that I'm only talking about the SWTOR investment. Can you justify SWTOR becoming a flop?

    Also, I'm pretty certain if we want to go the route of studios that were good investments to purchase by EA. EA is where  good gaming studios go to get gutted or where they go to die. If you want great titles you would want EA to stay away from a studio for as long as possible. Because they will milk them and throw them to the curb in the end. It has happened count less times.

     

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    But, man you don't understand SWTOR has nothing to do with the decline in their stocks! (sarcasm)  Anyways I totally agree with you. it's unfortunate that EA has the grip of death on BioWare.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    They made more money in the last fiscal quarter than you will see in a lifetime.

    That EA. The one that has a 16% market share.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    They made more money in the last fiscal quarter than you will see in a lifetime.

    That EA. The one that has a 16% market share.

    I'm pretty sure I could care less how much money they make compared to me. A bad investment is a bad investment. The point of these types of conversations are to point out that more money does not mean a better product and this is a prime example. It will be one of the best examples of poor judgement while handling money.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • karmathkarmath Posts: 827Member Uncommon

    Keep in mind development costs and total cost are two very different beasts.

    While the $150-200 million is prob on the mark for development costs, the $300-500 million would be pretty on the mark to total cost.

    You have to factor in tax, interest on investor loans, licensing from Lucas, building rent/purchase, I.T hardware for staff, server hardware, server bandwidth, customer service staff, marketing, accounting staff, admin staff, usurping exec's, trade show costs (eg. E3, pax), ect ect..

    The list of things that goes into backing a MMO release is staggering. While the 500 million spent on development alone claim is bullshit, the total cost would be something to the tune of that.

  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by Atlan99
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    They made more money in the last fiscal quarter than you will see in a lifetime.

    That EA. The one that has a 16% market share.

    I'm pretty sure I could care less how much money they make compared to me. A bad investment is a bad investment. The point of these types of conversations are to point out that more money does not mean a better product and this is a prime example. It will be one of the best examples of poor judgement while handling money.

    I'm pretty sure I wasn't responding to your comment.

    I'm pretty sure he was insinuating that EA is in trouble.

    I'm pretty sure I was trying to put things into perspective for him.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by karmath

    Keep in mind development costs and total cost are two very different beasts.

    While the $150-200 million is prob on the mark for development costs, the $300-500 million would be pretty on the mark to total cost.

    You have to factor in tax, interest on investor loans, licensing from Lucas, building rent/purchase, I.T hardware for staff, server hardware, server bandwidth, customer service staff, marketing, accounting staff, admin staff, usurping exec's, trade show costs (eg. E3, pax), ect ect..

    The list of things that goes into backing a MMO release is staggering. While the 500 million spent on development alone claim is bullshit, the total cost would be something to the tune of that.

    Many people assume that's actually rolled into the development cost of a product. In this case it's very hard to know exactly how much was spent because no one has been given the actual numbers on everything. So the range at which the speculation drifts is quite large and is probably where the 500 million dollar estimate comes from.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • SentimeSentime Chicago, ILPosts: 272Member

    If you had to pay for an IP to make an MMO you're already lost.  Don't these developers have an imagination?  

     

    The only shame is a pile of people bought the box for this game so develpoers never making this choice in the tuture isn't guaranteed.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sentime

    If you had to pay for an IP to make an MMO you're already lost.  Don't these developers have an imagination?  

     

    The only shame is a pile of people bought the box for this game so develpoers never making this choice in the tuture isn't guaranteed.

    There's nothing wrong with purchasing an IP. But, when you purchase the IP and a Studio to produce it. Especially one that has no experience in the field of massive multiplayer gaming I'm pretty sure any average gamer can tell you that's a recipe for disaster.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • azrael466azrael466 hillsboro, ORPosts: 365Member
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    coorilation does not imply causation.

    SWTOR came out, their share prices went down. Both of these are FACTS, no one is denying them. But thats not to say one caused the other - It might of, but there needs to be more proof then them both happening.

    EA also released other games, why are they not to blame just as much? Because you like them or are apathetic twords them perhaps? You use SWTOR as the scape goat just because you dislike it which is petty at best.

    Also EA is STILL one of the strongest gaming production companies, look at THQ - I'm surprised they're even still around!

    Its not "SWTOR MADE EA FAIL!" or even "MMOS ARE ALL MARKET FAILURES!" it's "THE VIDEO GAME MARKET IS SUCKING RIGHT NOW"

    Playing
    Nothing
    waiting for
    The secret world
    Played
    WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.

  • MarLMarL akron, OHPosts: 606Member

    Well didnt real time worlds blow 100 million on APB?

    So im guess star wars cost 1 billion lol

    Jk but anyone can waste money on stuff and still make a crappy game :)

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,918Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azrael466
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

    Probably because it isn't true.

    SWTOR may be underperforming, however EA is doing fine.

     Would this be the same EA that was worth over $23 a share 2 weeks before SWTOR and is worth $12.44 this very day?

    Yeah...they are doing...fine.

    You guys remind me of a cop standing in front of a fireworks factory thats burning to the ground..."nothing to see here folks, move along."

    coorilation does not imply causation.

    SWTOR came out, their share prices went down. Both of these are FACTS, no one is denying them. But thats not to say one caused the other - It might of, but there needs to be more proof then them both happening.

    EA also released other games, why are they not to blame just as much? Because you like them or are apathetic twords them perhaps? You use SWTOR as the scape goat just because you dislike it which is petty at best.

    Also EA is STILL one of the strongest gaming production companies, look at THQ - I'm surprised they're even still around!

    Its not "SWTOR MADE EA FAIL!" or even "MMOS ARE ALL MARKET FAILURES!" it's "THE VIDEO GAME MARKET IS SUCKING RIGHT NOW"

    People are trying to point out that EA has published many decent products. Such as any of their sport games, ME, DA, etc. But, we can assume they were quite successful with them. So it leans more towards SWTOR than any other title seeing that it was the most costly of any product they've published.

    EA manages to gutt small studios before they grow. Yeah, they have a great lineup of games from studios who were great before they were bought out be EA. but, shortly after they produce a few games you truly don't hear from those studios again.

    We're not saying EA is failing, that mmos are market failures, or that the video game market is sucking ( I personally don't like this years lineup of games.) We're just saying that the cost of this game did hurt EA and the cost of SWTOR definitely plays a big role in it.

    It just comes down to bad business practice and that's all there is to it. They took a massive risk and didn't properly invest in the product and that's very clear to everyone.

    I personally believe that we've lost most of the Companies and Publishers who are willing to allow Studios to innovate and I truly mean innovate the gaming market. None of this, "we've got a new COD and the Aiming system is now newly innovated! " The word is being improperly used to draw in the customers only for them to find out it's the same old crap that they've been fed.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Atlan99Atlan99 Calgary, ABPosts: 1,323Member
    Originally posted by grounnn
    Originally posted by azrael466
    Originally posted by rdrakken
    Originally posted by Atlan99

     

    People are trying to point out that EA has published many decent products. Such as any of their sport games, ME, DA, etc. But, we can assume they were quite successful with them. So it leans more towards SWTOR than any other title seeing that it was the most costly of any product they've published.

    EA manages to gutt small studios before they grow. Yeah, they have a great lineup of games from studios who were great before they were bought out be EA. but, shortly after they produce a few games you truly don't hear from those studios again.

    We're not saying EA is failing, that mmos are market failures, or that the video game market is sucking ( I personally don't like this years lineup of games.) We're just saying that the cost of this game did hurt EA and the cost of SWTOR definitely plays a big role in it.

    It just comes down to bad business practice and that's all there is to it. They took a massive risk and didn't properly invest in the product and that's very clear to everyone.

    I personally believe that we've lost most of the Companies and Publishers who are willing to allow Studios to innovate and I truly mean innovate the gaming market. None of this, "we've got a new COD and the Aiming system is now newly innovated! " The word is being improperly used to draw in the customers only for them to find out it's the same old crap that they've been fed.

    So it's more of a religous movement then. EA is the devil and you are trying to exorcise the demon.

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