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Doesn't it seem..

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  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEMember Posts: 1,778 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zorgo
    Originally posted by EndDream
    Originally posted by Zorgo There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

     lol wut?

    best high school art EVAR!

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Outlaws.jpg

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Serpents_coil.jpg

     

    Honestly though, I am cautious as well. But someone has to take risks right?

    yeah, but I'm specifically talking about the pictures with people in them.....can't figure out how to get to the individual picture links you got...but the front page banner folks are a good example of what I mean:

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/

    As are any of these images with detailed pictures (shows facial details and such) of 'people':

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/content.php/214-Concept-Art

    And I did say 'gifted' high school  student /wink.

     

     The concept artist is a decent digital landscape artist, with almost all of his strength being in the ability to manipulate the software he used to render the landscapes. 

    The stuff that actually looks good wasn't even created by the artist.  Digital art suites won't paint a character model for you, but they will do things like skies, leaves, grass, rock, and water.

    He's not very good as an "artist".

    I'd love to do concept art for the EoC guys, but I don't think they could afford me.  They're getting what they pay for, and a concept artist doesn't have to be great.  They only need to give the game artist an idea of what things should look like.  A concept artist with a lot of imagination is much more valuable then one who has a lot of ability to draw.  No amount of talent is going to help you if you can't actually imagine what the world, people, or cratures look like.

    I'm a little offended by the comment the guy you quoted made about best high school artist EVAR.  I was mimmicking Mcfarlanes art style in highschool.  :)

     

    Anyways, it's a little silly to draw any kind of a conclusion or base any speculation off of what you see in the concept art.  It doesn't say anything about the talent of the programmers or game artists themselves, only the concept art.

    I think the fairest thing you can say about the concept art itself, is that it's pretty generic, and that that "generic" will very likely be translated by the game artists.

     

  • SuttnerSuttner BerlinMember Posts: 2
    Originally posted by mikethk
    Originally posted by Nefastus
    If you spent more than 5 sec reading about the game, you would understand that it's pretty much in prototype development stage, meaning that you won't get more than few concept art pictures. Also, if you judge the game on a web banner which nobody cares about then good luck with your gaming experience.

    Kids these days...

    I judge because i have the xp to do so.

     

    I highly doubt that. But anyway, you fell your decision. I won't just because of possible fears or prejudices...

  • SorrowSorrow St Pete, FLMember Posts: 1,195
    Originally posted by EndDream
    Originally posted by Zorgo There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

     lol wut?

    best high school art EVAR!

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Outlaws.jpg

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Serpents_coil.jpg

     

    Honestly though, I am cautious as well. But someone has to take risks right?

    My ONLY issue with kickstarter comes down to one word you posted here.. RISK!!!

     

    When people are asked to INVEST their money for a RISK, by every convention of INVESTMENT, those investors should also SHARE in any potential profit.

     

    Hence, imo kickstarer should be a program where we as INVESTORS can actually buy simple common investment  shares in a privately held company.

    image

  • mikethkmikethk svendborgMember Posts: 105
    Originally posted by Grixxitt
    Originally posted by mikethk
    OMFG.   This just shows how tiny your information bag is. There WILL be a DF 2.0. The numbers of devs increase, due to a big investor.   Yes, but they're making other games as well. There has been absolutely no proof that any resources are going into DF 2.0 except a couple of weapon renderings  You talk about games that done the same as AV, but no links? Without links its nothing.  Exactly. Whats the link to DF2? Its been in production (supposedly) for over 2 years, wheres a playable demo or even some gameplay footage? All we've seen so far is a disembodied camera looking at new scenes using the same old engine. Its gonna be so good :D Cause you will be stunned of DF 2.0 im just sure.   We'll see. If it does come out with even half of the features mentioned, I will be more than happy to eat my words, but after years of waiting I'm not going to be holding my breath

     

    No links from you, but here is mine:

     

    And read and follow the updates, you would know it aint a joke.... The last link pretty much sum up everything. If DF 2.0 dossent come its because something goes wrong, that isent expected. 

     

    and yes. As mentioned DF 2.0 is the same engine, but AV's engine is changable so you may not think this engine as a "Unreal" engine. . . Thats where AV got there advantages. . . Graphic is changed. Sound is changed. Ui is changed. Prop. AI is changed. More game added, alot stay the same. . . As AV says, this is DF 2.0 a huge expansion/redoing of DF 1.0

     

    Wait and see. 

     

    Ohh and this: http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/?p=3230

  • KhaiyneKhaiyne CanberraMember Posts: 8

    Mike,

    You're clearly a die hard Darkfall plan and there's absolutely nothing anyone is ever going to be able to do to convince you that a Sandbox MMO can be done better. Darkfall is a very twitch based heavily PvP focused game which isn't what we're trying to create.

    We'll certainly have PvP however we're not trying to be PvP-Centric.

    Regarding the concept artist, we have quite a few and what I think you're referring to is quite old. I will be releasing a piece of outstanding concept art of a create in about twelve hours that I think looks just amazing.

    The images in the banner are being replaced. The woman, Cassandra, has already been completely redone and it looks brilliant. Members of our 'Platinum club' can already see it but I can't release it yet. The man, Ursor, is also being redone.

    Regarding out in game graphics, we have done a few videos and they look pretty good. That's what you should be looking at if you really want to compare in game graphics. You could also look at the render of our mountains or houses if you like.

    What's listed as 'screenshots' on this site are concept art.

    Regarding Kickstarter, this is something we were asked to do by the community and it helps us with a licensing agreement to create an investor prototype. We also have a 'give a buck about sandbox gaming' campaign though to even just get a dollar from sandbox fans because it shows there is a market for this type of gaming.

    Most investors are comfortable with themepark MMOs based on established IP because it's easy to sell. It doesn't matter what you make, if you are licensed to call it a star wars product, it will sell. Crowd sourcing is a risk but it's also an opportunity.

    I hope that, even though you're not interested in investing with us at the moment, in a few years time we're able to blow you away with what we've achieved. What you're basing your judgement on though is the risk we've taken by engaging with the MMO community so early in development. Other MMO developers don't do that, but we really want your contribution and your feedback on our systems.

    Cheers.

  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member Posts: 961 Uncommon
    Originally posted by mikethk
    Originally posted by Nefastus
    If you spent more than 5 sec reading about the game, you would understand that it's pretty much in prototype development stage, meaning that you won't get more than few concept art pictures. Also, if you judge the game on a web banner which nobody cares about then good luck with your gaming experience.

    Kids these days...

    Well what can i say.... Watch and learn....

    Wait and see....

    And yes i judge it on the banner, ofc i do. . . The banner looks like shit.

     

    Save this thread and learn that i was right:

    This game will contain poorly AI mobs, funny bug's, lowend graphic's and no population.....

     

    I judge because i have the xp to do so. I know it just by watching the banner. I cant proof it, but watch and learn.

     

     

    This guy made me LOL IRL, I love to see you even make a model of a shoe, or a knife, you have no clue what your doing, to sit here and bash a indie company that has the balls to make a game as complex as this , Kudos to them.. Will the game be perfect hell no, no game is , but Xsyon, Mortal, Darkfall and most indies, AKA minecraft, I will play any day and support VS these so called WOW clones.

  • joocheesejoocheese San Antonio, TXMember Posts: 845
    Originally posted by Khaiyne
    Mike, You're clearly a die hard Darkfall plan and there's absolutely nothing anyone is ever going to be able to do to convince you that a Sandbox MMO can be done better. Darkfall is a very twitch based heavily PvP focused game which isn't what we're trying to create. We'll certainly have PvP however we're not trying to be PvP-Centric. Regarding the concept artist, we have quite a few and what I think you're referring to is quite old. I will be releasing a piece of outstanding concept art of a create in about twelve hours that I think looks just amazing. The images in the banner are being replaced. The woman, Cassandra, has already been completely redone and it looks brilliant. Members of our 'Platinum club' can already see it but I can't release it yet. The man, Ursor, is also being redone. Regarding out in game graphics, we have done a few videos and they look pretty good. That's what you should be looking at if you really want to compare in game graphics. You could also look at the render of our mountains or houses if you like. What's listed as 'screenshots' on this site are concept art. Regarding Kickstarter, this is something we were asked to do by the community and it helps us with a licensing agreement to create an investor prototype. We also have a 'give a buck about sandbox gaming' campaign though to even just get a dollar from sandbox fans because it shows there is a market for this type of gaming. Most investors are comfortable with themepark MMOs based on established IP because it's easy to sell. It doesn't matter what you make, if you are licensed to call it a star wars product, it will sell. Crowd sourcing is a risk but it's also an opportunity. I hope that, even though you're not interested in investing with us at the moment, in a few years time we're able to blow you away with what we've achieved. What you're basing your judgement on though is the risk we've taken by engaging with the MMO community so early in development. Other MMO developers don't do that, but we really want your contribution and your feedback on our systems. Cheers.

    I like some aspects of EOC and I'm willing to tolerate the ganker friendly world pvp system. If what you want is feedback, here's my feedback; provide 3rd person gaming option... please!!

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAMember Posts: 2,335 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elandir90
    all indie sandbox developers go crazy listing features before release.   I never saw any of them delivering... in fact not even the mega hits in the Triple A market do it, there's always something unfinished or "to be released", something that was supposed to be ready in day 1.  

    It's sad how true this is. It's not done with the intention to mislead either, not usually anyway. It's generally just about biting off more than you can chew, and Indie devs aiming for something on large enough in scale to require funding tend to do just that.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but I do think people should be far more cautiously optimistic than they've become.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNMember Posts: 57
    Originally posted by joocheese

    I like some aspects of EOC and I'm willing to tolerate the ganker friendly world pvp system. If what you want is feedback, here's my feedback; provide 3rd person gaming option... please!!

     

    I'd hesitate to call it "ganker friendly." Take a look at the Stigma system (the video is on the Karma system, which was slightly reworked and renamed after the devs got feedback), and read up on the law system. There are other contributing factors, but those are the main two which make the life of the ganker a bit more challenging than is usual.

  • DarkVagabondDarkVagabond Member Posts: 312 Uncommon

    Is there some massive shadow fanbase that got this games hype up on the tracker or is someone doing some shenanigans?

  • NefastusNefastus Long Beach, CAMember Posts: 71
    Originally posted by DarkVagabond
    Is there some massive shadow fanbase that got this games hype up on the tracker or is someone doing some shenanigans?

    The hype is currently at only abit over 100 votes, so not sure where your conspiracy theories come from. Let's not forget the fact that over 300 people already pledged donations to the Kickstarter and community has much more.

    Nefastus - Enclave

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNMember Posts: 57

    No shenanigans, but it does seem a bit crazy to be so high on the hype meter this far out :D

  • xidianxidian Toledo, OHMember Posts: 5
    Originally posted by Nefastus
    Originally posted by DarkVagabond
    Is there some massive shadow fanbase that got this games hype up on the tracker or is someone doing some shenanigans?

    The hype is currently at only abit over 100 votes, so not sure where your conspiracy theories come from. Let's not forget the fact that over 300 people already pledged donations to the Kickstarter and community has much more.

    Yeah, it doesn't seem that crazy for the hype to be high.

  • BitshiftBitshift AachenMember Posts: 31

    What i do not understand is the early development of things like a dynamic weather system.

    I mean, from all features that I excpect to be implemented in an MMORPG this is quite one of the most uninteresting ones. It simply doesn't matter. If you look at Mortal Online, they have all that overcomplicated implementations like the cooking system, which no one really uses in depth cause all that you need is very basic stuff. They have a weather system too, and guess what? I don't ever have realised that it exists.

    Every company tries to create "giant worlds". Yeah, go on, I know how that will look in the end: The world is big, but empty to the core.

    Basic features like an immersive, active PvP Combat or an intense and USEFULL crafting without useless grinds, a working economy and at least a solid quallity, that will be the top features every game needs to work in a long term. Carefully worked out concepts that will handle the balance between ganking and useful combat and so on.

    Not that high level shit that is fun to implement for the devs, but highly unimportant for the gameplay.

  • YoubajYoubaj StockholmMember Posts: 2

    I was kind of skeptical at first, know what had happened with both Darkfall and Mortal. But what made me trust that EoC will be different is that the team consists of people that have been through the same thing. But also that they are a much larger team now in the beginning and have come quite far already. I'm backing this project and spreading it to people!

    image

  • TwentySicksTwentySicks ArnumMember Posts: 2

     

    To be honest I dont care if it ends up being vaporware.

    The fact that I supported the idea is enough, because many triple A developers are too bound by publishers to keep pushing out the same game, with alternative art styles. A new generation of game developers is breaking in on the market, which at this time is filled with greedy corporate style companies.

    We need a renaissance for the digital entertainment industry, of new and innovative entertainment. The truth is, that much of the hardware is available to pull off amazing features, but the current giants on the market do not want to roll the dice on anything at all, if there is even the slightest risk of loosing money, they simply back out and leave the creative developers on their own.

    Combined with the influx of the new "casual" breed of "gamers", this results in the true oldschool hardcore gamers being left out of their own worlds, which makes me very sad. Instead of milking the cash-cow, big companies (like EA and Activision) should start putting their money into new things, and take more risks. It's not like they are going to starve because a few games might fail.

  • ThradokThradok St. James, MNMember Posts: 57
    Originally posted by Bitshift
    What i do not understand is the early development of things like a dynamic weather system. I mean, from all features that I excpect to be implemented in an MMORPG this is quite one of the most uninteresting ones. It simply doesn't matter. If you look at Mortal Online, they have all that overcomplicated implementations like the cooking system, which no one really uses in depth cause all that you need is very basic stuff. They have a weather system too, and guess what? I don't ever have realised that it exists. Every company tries to create "giant worlds". Yeah, go on, I know how that will look in the end: The world is big, but empty to the core. Basic features like an immersive, active PvP Combat or an intense and USEFULL crafting without useless grinds, a working economy and at least a solid quallity, that will be the top features every game needs to work in a long term. Carefully worked out concepts that will handle the balance between ganking and useful combat and so on. Not that high level shit that is fun to implement for the devs, but highly unimportant for the gameplay.


    I understand your basic idea here, and agree with it, but I think you may have chosen a bad example. Weather is very important, particularly for the naval system. As for the world size, I'm not worried about it. They've got a good sized team working on filling that world up, and (apparently) some good software to back them up. If it turns out to be empty people can just stay closer to the major cities. Now, fixing up the PvP and crafting is truly a core concept they are working on. We've heard some about PvP and their plans there, still waiting on more crafting details (beyond there being both passive and active crafting modes). However, they devs have played the same games we have, so they know that crafting usually sucks. It'll be interesting to see how they try and do something different.

  • SizzzSizzz moMember Posts: 61

    Well by being an indie developer, and currently having over 50 volunteers contributing, many working effectivley full time. The value of those contributions would be worth atleast $1mil p/a if an enterprise level studio had to payout to get it. So being an indie developer has certain advantages.

    Although be under allusion, even if they release, which is still atleast 2016, Im sure it would be no where near the polish of a AAA 100 person title.

    But I think if they focus on just "features" as opposed to "content" then they have a good chance, and also it would be best to consider it an on going project after release, that can develop in a similar way to EVE.

    Additionally for AAA title MOST of their 200mil like budgets are actually spent on advertising rather than development, so just because you see AAA title with huge budget claims dont beleive that is spent on what you actually get your hands on. Like WoW was something like 50mil total on actual development, rest on advertising.....

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLMember Posts: 1,288 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sorrow
    Originally posted by EndDream
    Originally posted by Zorgo There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

     lol wut?

    best high school art EVAR!

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Outlaws.jpg

    http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Serpents_coil.jpg

     

    Honestly though, I am cautious as well. But someone has to take risks right?

    My ONLY issue with kickstarter comes down to one word you posted here.. RISK!!!

     

    When people are asked to INVEST their money for a RISK, by every convention of INVESTMENT, those investors should also SHARE in any potential profit.

     

    Hence, imo kickstarer should be a program where we as INVESTORS can actually buy simple common investment  shares in a privately held company.

    I been saying this since I first heard of kickstarter. I have participated in the Shadowrun kickstarter and Pathfinder Online. Why? Because PO is a true tested IP from a company that already exists and has been profitable. As for all these other developers, I wish you all luck but if I am to RISK I expect more reward than just "a game"

     

    Put out common shares if you are SO passionate about your product. I understand it is hard, I work in a private equity firm, and we no longer take ANY projects from game developers, not even a facebook game. Why? Risk versus reward, simple economics. Opportunity costs, we can make more $$$ with less RISK in other markets, so why bother? It pains me, as a gamer, to see good ideas and great visionaries slip out our door because my company refuses to take on the risk without some sort of hedge.

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