Please Zenimax don't ruin Elder Scrolls

zxcvbnm1234 · June 2012

Just saw the E3 video, quit making this game's online version. The graphics looked awful, scorpions must came from WOW. Give it to the makers of Skyrim, instead of your camp.

Jakdstripper · June 2012

...too late.

rygard49 · June 2012

This needed a thread all to itself?

PyrateLV · June 2012

Originally posted by Jakdstripper
...too late.

Ikeda · June 2012

Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Jakdstripper

...too late.

QFT^^

It's like watching a car wreck. You know you shouldn't watch, but you do and you gape at the stupidity of all parties.

tazarconan · June 2012

Originally posted by Speire
Just saw the E3 video, quit making this game's online version. The graphics looked awful, scorpions must came from WOW. Give it to the makers of Skyrim, instead of your camp.

Skyrim team didnt even bothered to put a multiplayer coop up to 4 players option,why should we pass on the opportunity to see an ender scrolls mmorpg. I read carefully the interview of the programming team and they seem to really try to make something that focuses on the roleplay element which is something good.If its good in gameplay terms dude who gives a shit seriously if the graficks are not that good. Dont expect it to be a sandbox ofc its gonnabe a well made ES themepark with many differences though than lets say wow. Thats a personal evaluation and prediction ofc based on the interviews i read.

Chrisbox · June 2012

No ones ruining the elder scrolls IP, just saying.

Ikeda · June 2012

Originally posted by Chrisbox
No ones ruining the elder scrolls IP, just saying.

GTFO of here.

Elder Scrolls IP - Dunmer enslaved the Argonians. So LOGICALLY they'll be part of the Ebonheart Compact.
Elder Scrolls IP - Khajiit and Bosmer fought each other CONSTANTLY through the third age. OBVIOUSLY a good team for Aldmeri Dominion.
Elder Scrolls IP - Orcs were pretty much a threat to ALL races. To be fair, if there were a good ally for this it would be the Altmer. PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE of their entire factional allies the Imperials.

FFS, this is the IP. This is the established lore. If you can't even begin setting up factions in a LOGICAL manner based on the lore, what are you going to do with the rest of the game? Why not? Screw the actual dynamics of the game... for what? So they could be nicely grouped on a map.

That's LAZINESS. Again, cutting corners on IMPORTANT IP decisions.

PyrateLV · June 2012

Originally posted by Ikeda
Originally posted by Chrisbox

No ones ruining the elder scrolls IP, just saying.

GTFO of here.

Elder Scrolls IP - Dunmer enslaved the Argonians. So LOGICALLY they'll be part of the Ebonheart Compact.

Elder Scrolls IP - Khajiit and Bosmer fought each other CONSTANTLY through the third age. OBVIOUSLY a good team for Aldmeri Dominion.

Elder Scrolls IP - Orcs were pretty much a threat to ALL races. To be fair, if there were a good ally for this it would be the Altmer. PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE of their entire factional allies the Imperials.

FFS, this is the IP. This is the established lore. If you can't even begin setting up factions in a LOGICAL manner based on the lore, what are you going to do with the rest of the game? Why not? Screw the actual dynamics of the game... for what? So they could be nicely grouped on a map.

That's LAZINESS. Again, cutting corners on IMPORTANT IP decisions.

Matt Firor (of DAOC Fame!) probably saw that Tamriel map and a "vision" popped in his head.

Albion=Daggerfall Covenant

Midgard=Ebonheart Pact

Hibernia=Aldmeri Dominion

Frontier=Cyrodiil

Darkness Falls=Black Marsh

Darrgen · June 2012

You people not even giving the game a chance before it's even show gameplay. I dont care about a bit of lore twist or anything like that. I have more faith in Matt Firor as a lead than any other game developer. He was what made DaoC the best Pvp game still to this day and you will see that he is following the blueprints that he layed out in that game. All of you that are crying right now will see that once you actually get a hold and the game is FUN. Sure maybe not all will enjoy but I've been saying for years even after quitting Dark Age of Camelot, that if some1 was smart enough to make another Dark Age of Camelot Post WoW boom, with updated controls and small tweaks to the combat you would have a game I and any who gets a taste of realm pride will stay in forever.

Simply put even the most adament Pve'r in Dark age of camelot would instantly drop his PvE raids to go defend relics in PvP with his raid. This was the type of game that made you care about what side you picked and gave you a reason to fight for things. There was no true bad guy, you just hated the other 2 sides. You wanted to help whether you gave intel to the Zerg leaders or stood on the front lines fighting massive 3 sided 200+ person battles, or even ran around in your 8 man groups picking off players that were trying to get to their sides zergs. It was a massive cooperative ONLINE multiplayer and throughout my long history of MMOs has not been duplicated yet. If Matt firor brings this with an IP like Elder Scrolls, then you can bet you regardless of how much hate you are spewing out now, you'll be playing and you will enjoy the hell out of it whether you agree with the lore or not because it will be fun.

PyrateLV · June 2012

Originally posted by Darrgen
You people not even giving the game a chance before it's even show gameplay. I dont care about a bit of lore twist or anything like that. I have more faith in Matt Firor as a lead than any other game developer. He was what made DaoC the best Pvp game still to this day and you will see that he is following the blueprints that he layed out in that game. All of you that are crying right now will see that once you actually get a hold and the game is FUN. Sure maybe not all will enjoy but I've been saying for years even after quitting Dark Age of Camelot, that if some1 was smart enough to make another Dark Age of Camelot Post WoW boom, with updated controls and small tweaks to the combat you would have a game I and any who gets a taste of realm pride will stay in forever.

Simply put even the most adament Pve'r in Dark age of camelot would instantly drop his PvE raids to go defend relics in PvP with his raid. This was the type of game that made you care about what side you picked and gave you a reason to fight for things. There was no true bad guy, you just hated the other 2 sides. You wanted to help whether you gave intel to the Zerg leaders or stood on the front lines fighting massive 3 sided 200+ person battles, or even ran around in your 8 man groups picking off players that were trying to get to their sides zergs. It was a massive cooperative ONLINE multiplayer and throughout my long history of MMOs has not been duplicated yet. If Matt firor brings this with an IP like Elder Scrolls, then you can bet you regardless of how much hate you are spewing out now, you'll be playing and you will enjoy the hell out of it whether you agree with the lore or not because it will be fun.

If DAOC is still the best PvP to this day, then why arent you still playing? Why did you quit the best PvP game to this day? Why hope for another version then? You say you will stay forever, but you didnt stay forever in the game with the best PvP to this day.

I remember when people thought because Brad McQuaid made EQ he would do great with Vanguard..oops

And when people says because Mark Jacobs did great with DAOC, Warhammer would be a major success...uh..nope

Or Richard Garriot (Lord British of Ultima Online fame!) would make Tabula Rasa fantastic....D'oh

How about Jack Emmert after COH success he would make Champions Online great?.....Star Trek Online?.....ok, maybe Neverwinter then.

GTwander · June 2012

Originally posted by Darrgen
I have more faith in Matt Firor as a lead than any other game developer. He was what made DaoC the best Pvp game still to this day and you will see that he is following the blueprints that he layed out in that game.

Aha.. This is the problem.

Beg for a DAoC 2, not to have TES butchered so you can finally get your fix of how it used to be. Every single person that is for this travesty is simply using their nostalgia to do the talking for them - perhaps us TES fans are doing the same - but it's hardly a dead sense of nostalgia since Skyrim isn't even more than half a year old. It's a tried-and-true methodology that the series has, and we have expectations set already if it were to become an MMO... you just care about 3-faction PvP, not TES, like we do.

This whole debacle is like if Jaffe joined SE and then wanted to make a Final Fantasy game more like God of War... while as amusing as that sounds as a fan of God of War, I would never suggest it for Final Fantasy... apparantly, though, none of you care to pay your respects to a franchise in the same way we do...

~and I had a good chuckle at LV's point about assuming a high profile name involved means lightning will strike twice. It usually means they retread tired ideas and it flops hard... and I expect all these DAoC fans' tone to change drastically upon release, like history repeating itself.

PyrateLV · June 2012

The way I see it, the only way to fix this is- Remove everything associated with Elder Scrolls. Names, Places, Lore, everything.

Rename and rebuild the lore from original Zenimax ideas. Call the game The Ancient Books Online.

This way Elder Scrolls fans are happy you didnt butcher their IP. Themepark and DAOC lovers get the game they want. And Sandbox players...well... we still get to cry because no one loves us

But Zenimax wouldnt even concider this. Why? Because The Ancient Books Online would NEVER sell as much as The Elder Scrolls Online.

I dont even think it would outsell RIFT.

GTwander · June 2012

Diet Elder Scrolls... or Elder Scrolls Lite.

Ikeda · June 2012

I was going to bring up all the failed designers since you brought up Firor. Already done.
I was going to bring up the nostalgia factor. Already done.
I was going to bring up the fact that DAOC sucked with Rise and if it was so awesome, you'd STILL be playing. That was already done too.

I don't need to see a game to see a butchering of the IP. Let's make a Star Wars game where the Klingons teamed up with Boba Fett to take down the Rebel alliance/star fleet faction. It doesn't work. For the same reason Luke wouldn't join with the Emperor and Yoda to beat up on Ewoks.

By showing they don't respect the lore, the world, or the fans.... Why the hell should I need to see the gameplay? It could be the end-all, be-all of games. The Mecca of the mmorpg gaming world, but the insult of ignoring lore, ignoring the story of previous titles, ignoring the very essence of TES, is just too great. Don't call it Elder Scrolls if you don't want to use the IP correctly.

chryses · June 2012

The biggest issue with this IP compared to others like Star Trek and Star Wars is that it is originally a massive selling game. The other two are movies / series that have been interpereted.

My real problem with this is that Elder Scrolls IMO was a massive success due to the open free roaming world with open class system. A game where you forget about the storyline and just live however you want.

So from the outset every fan will compare the MMO against the massively successful game IP. I almost coughed up my breakfast when I read some interview that they will have some sort of mission hubs etc.

It just doesn't make any sense at all. People play ES because its open free roaming world. So what is the stupidest thing you can do? Make an MMO using the same IP with a leveling system and mission hubs.

No idea.

GTwander · June 2012

Originally posted by PyrateLV
The way I see it, the only way to fix this is- Remove everything associated with Elder Scrolls. Names, Places, Lore, everything.

Rename and rebuild the lore from original Zenimax ideas. Call the game The Ancient Books Online.

This way Elder Scrolls fans are happy you didnt butcher their IP. Themepark and DAOC lovers get the game they want. And Sandbox players...well... we still get to cry because no one loves us

But Zenimax wouldnt even concider this. Why? Because The Ancient Books Online would NEVER sell as much as The Elder Scrolls Online.

I dont even think it would outsell RIFT.

Ha... I just realised they could blame all the tired MMO tropes on the tale of "The Warp in the West", where the outcome of Daggerfall split 6 ways, much like the whole 'sharding' of that one crystal in the Ultima series.

They could just blame it all on one of the timelines ending up lame and mediocre.

So by the time a new SP game comes out, they can say "the events in TESO never really happened, it was all a dream, move along". I'll be a bit pissed, but at this point, I'm all for pretending this whole thing never happened.

rguilbert · June 2012

If it is similar to DAOC, I will definitely give it a try.

Hopefully, they will follow the lore as much as possible. If they need to take some minor liberties with the lore in order to improve gameplay, so be it. A fun game to play is what it is all about. I'd rather play something with good game mechanics then have a flawed game with impeccable lore.

I understand hating a game that is rushed out to make quick money off of an IP. I really don't think that's what is happening here though. It's been in development for 5 years now, and looks like another attempt at a DAOC2ish type game. I hope they succeed.

For those who disagree - who knows? You may be right. We'll just have to wait and see.

In any case, I seriously doubt that begging Zenimax to make a radical change is going to do anything.

Edit...it's an idiotic argument to tell someone who praises DAOC that "if it was so good, you'd still be playing it." DAOC was great, but it is over 10 years old, and is obsolete now. Anyone who makes that argument must never have liked a game at all in their entire life. If they did, then surely they'd be playing that game now instead of posting in forums.

jiveturkey12 · June 2012

Originally posted by Darrgen

If Matt firor brings this with an IP like Elder Scrolls, then you can bet you regardless of how much hate you are spewing out now, you'll be playing and you will enjoy the hell out of it whether you agree with the lore or not because it will be fun.

Im sorry my friend but your just plain wrong. For alot of us we care about Continuity in our games, thats what keeps us buying them, theres no contract for us to sign so we go on the faith of an IP or a Developer as you have put it. Sadly as much as Ive heard in defense of Mr.Firor, im more of an Elder Scrolls fan than a DAOC fan, and on top of that im more of an Open World fan than a themepark fan.

So no I wont be playing this game because it doesnt fit in any category of what I want in an MMO OR an Elder Scrolls game. And if so many Elder Scrolls fans dont want this type of game than who will play it?

DAOC fan's. Because of the Three-Faction PVP. And maybe thats enough to keep you playing the game for years, I have no idea because im not you, but you wont see any Hardcore Elder Scrolls fans playing, and if you do, they wont be sticking around long because they wont be having fun. You dont need to play the game to know your not going to like it, just watch the E3 gameplay footage, thats more than enough, not to mention all the other infromation we have.

A product doesnt need to be 100% ready and out the door before you decide on it, if theres many core featues that dont appeal to you than you simply wont enjoy it no matter how much another person says you will. Sorry but the majority is OUT on ESO because they threw away the lore for a different playstyle that was more suited for Casuals and not for the Hardcore Niche fans of the series that got the series to where it is.

And this isnt even Bethesda the Original creators its just Zenimax so its not like its even the original IP creators, so its obvious they have no Ties to the Hardcore ES fans and can do as they please.

GTwander · June 2012

Originally posted by rguilbert

Edit...it's an idiotic argument to tell someone who praises DAOC that "if it was so good, you'd still be playing it." DAOC was great, but it is over 10 years old, and is obsolete now. Anyone who makes that argument must never have liked a game at all in their entire life. If they did, then surely they'd be playing that game now instead of posting in forums.

Ah, so the same-old 10+ year old combat systems, wrapped around a 10+ year old concept of 3-faction PvP isn't "obsolete"?

Then why are there so many damned complaints about the state of things in this genre to begin with?

Do newer graphics make up for gameplay that is ancient at it's core? It must, seeing as how well newer games are doing once the glitz dies off after the first couple months, yeah?

All I see throughout this whole deal is DAoC fans and TES fans grabbing at straws - but what side has more right to reach for them in the first place?

Players who respect the IP, or players that want to hark back to a *completely unassociated* game they played almost a decade ago? One that doesn't even stand up anymore... Gah.

This is like people complaining that Pirate 101 should be more like UO, or that Planetside 2 should be more like SWG.

How about we let The Elder Scrolls and DAoC stick to their own conventions for once?! ~and yes, I blame Zenimax for hiring Matt Firor and listenting to his tired ideas from his DAoC glory days, as well as the players blinded by it all.

rguilbert · June 2012

Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by rguilbert

Edit...it's an idiotic argument to tell someone who praises DAOC that "if it was so good, you'd still be playing it." DAOC was great, but it is over 10 years old, and is obsolete now. Anyone who makes that argument must never have liked a game at all in their entire life. If they did, then surely they'd be playing that game now instead of posting in forums.

Ah, so the same-old 10+ year old combat systems, wrapped around a 10+ year old concept of 3-faction PvP isn't "obsolete"?

Then why are there so many damned complaints about the state of things in this genre to begin with?

Do newer graphics make up for gameplay that is ancient at it's core? It must, seeing as how well newer games are doing once the glitz dies off after the first couple months, yeah?

It is valid for people to give an example of a great game from the past and say that they hope an upcoming game will have some or a lot of those elements.

It's idiotic to suggest that no one should do so, because they must not truly have liked that example, or else they would still be playing it.

I'd say that any MMO over 10 years old is somewhat obsolete...regardless of how good of a game it was/is. If it was truly a great game, then a newer version of it is welcome.

GTwander · June 2012

Originally posted by rguilbert

I'd say that any MMO over 10 years old is somewhat obsolete...regardless of how good of a game it was/is. If it was truly a great game, then a newer version of it is welcome.

I agree!

Make a newer version of itself (DAoC2)... don't attach a facehugger to a completely different IP and expect a perfect mutant hybrid.

All these nostalgic feelings are going to DIE on first glance with the outcome, for both of us.

rguilbert · June 2012

Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by rguilbert

I'd say that any MMO over 10 years old is somewhat obsolete...regardless of how good of a game it was/is. If it was truly a great game, then a newer version of it is welcome.

I agree!

Make a newer version of itself (DAoC2)... don't attach a facehugger to a completely different IP and expect a perfect mutant hybrid.

All these nostalgic feelings are going to DIE on first glance with the outcome, for both of us.

Maybe. I'm hoping it is a success though.

Honestly, I'd buy an honest attempt at DAOC2 no matter what the IP was. The problem is that EA owns the DAOC title.

Darrgen · June 2012

Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by Darrgen
You people not even giving the game a chance before it's even show gameplay. I dont care about a bit of lore twist or anything like that. I have more faith in Matt Firor as a lead than any other game developer. He was what made DaoC the best Pvp game still to this day and you will see that he is following the blueprints that he layed out in that game. All of you that are crying right now will see that once you actually get a hold and the game is FUN. Sure maybe not all will enjoy but I've been saying for years even after quitting Dark Age of Camelot, that if some1 was smart enough to make another Dark Age of Camelot Post WoW boom, with updated controls and small tweaks to the combat you would have a game I and any who gets a taste of realm pride will stay in forever.

Simply put even the most adament Pve'r in Dark age of camelot would instantly drop his PvE raids to go defend relics in PvP with his raid. This was the type of game that made you care about what side you picked and gave you a reason to fight for things. There was no true bad guy, you just hated the other 2 sides. You wanted to help whether you gave intel to the Zerg leaders or stood on the front lines fighting massive 3 sided 200+ person battles, or even ran around in your 8 man groups picking off players that were trying to get to their sides zergs. It was a massive cooperative ONLINE multiplayer and throughout my long history of MMOs has not been duplicated yet. If Matt firor brings this with an IP like Elder Scrolls, then you can bet you regardless of how much hate you are spewing out now, you'll be playing and you will enjoy the hell out of it whether you agree with the lore or not because it will be fun.

If DAOC is still the best PvP to this day, then why arent you still playing? Why did you quit the best PvP game to this day? Why hope for another version then? You say you will stay forever, but you didnt stay forever in the game with the best PvP to this day.

I remember when people thought because Brad McQuaid made EQ he would do great with Vanguard..oops

And when people says because Mark Jacobs did great with DAOC, Warhammer would be a major success...uh..nope

Or Richard Garriot (Lord British of Ultima Online fame!) would make Tabula Rasa fantastic....D'oh

How about Jack Emmert after COH success he would make Champions Online great?.....Star Trek Online?.....ok, maybe Neverwinter then.

I do believe if you read what i posted you would find the exact reason why I'm still not playing daoc. OLD outdated UI and controls, and it's one of those games that isn't new user friendly so it's not bringing in new people. Simple fact is I'm sure it wasn't Matt Firor's idea to Call it Elder Scrolls Online, he couldn't use Dark age of camelot because it's owned by EA. Bethseda probably wanted the Elder scrolls name attached to it simply because with the name alone you're gonna get huge hype and fanbase from that. I'm sorry you think it is butchered because it doesn't play exactly like the single player games or it doesn't have the graphics(No game will have that kinda graphics until computers and internet speeds are 100x as powerful as they are now) that Skyrim has.

Lore was stretched to fit the game and I'm sure they're working as closely as possible with Bethseda to make it as close to it as possible. Simple fact of the matter is though, they can do what they want with the Lore simply because they create it. It's in a different time period and everything can be written to fit that. If you dont have any faith that they can make it work then by all means continue crying over a game you know almost nothing about right now.

And if you knew anything about the history of Mythic you'd know Mark Jacobs was actually what ruined DaoC, him and Matt Firor had a small power struggle of sorts during the making of Trials of atlantis(ToA) the expansion that many believe ruined DaoC. Matt wanted the expansion to focus more on improving PvP since that was what the playerbase was drawn more to but Mark Jacobs wanted to add PvE content and mythic mainly being former EQ players released ToA. So no I did not have much faith in Warhammer and evidently I was right on.

dronfwar · June 2012

It's going to be fine as long as you can mount a dragon and fly over Tamriel without loading screens. Flying the dragon through a portal would be okay too.

Im wondering if you can cast the dragons from the inventory (horse outta pocket style) or if you have to catch them in the wilderness.

On a side note even their logo is stolen. Ying and Yang is also good for a logo, just an idea.

Entinerint · June 2012

Originally posted by Darrgen
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Darrgen

You people not even giving the game a chance before it's even show gameplay. I dont care about a bit of lore twist or anything like that. I have more faith in Matt Firor as a lead than any other game developer. He was what made DaoC the best Pvp game still to this day and you will see that he is following the blueprints that he layed out in that game. All of you that are crying right now will see that once you actually get a hold and the game is FUN. Sure maybe not all will enjoy but I've been saying for years even after quitting Dark Age of Camelot, that if some1 was smart enough to make another Dark Age of Camelot Post WoW boom, with updated controls and small tweaks to the combat you would have a game I and any who gets a taste of realm pride will stay in forever.

Simply put even the most adament Pve'r in Dark age of camelot would instantly drop his PvE raids to go defend relics in PvP with his raid. This was the type of game that made you care about what side you picked and gave you a reason to fight for things. There was no true bad guy, you just hated the other 2 sides. You wanted to help whether you gave intel to the Zerg leaders or stood on the front lines fighting massive 3 sided 200+ person battles, or even ran around in your 8 man groups picking off players that were trying to get to their sides zergs. It was a massive cooperative ONLINE multiplayer and throughout my long history of MMOs has not been duplicated yet. If Matt firor brings this with an IP like Elder Scrolls, then you can bet you regardless of how much hate you are spewing out now, you'll be playing and you will enjoy the hell out of it whether you agree with the lore or not because it will be fun.

If DAOC is still the best PvP to this day, then why arent you still playing? Why did you quit the best PvP game to this day? Why hope for another version then? You say you will stay forever, but you didnt stay forever in the game with the best PvP to this day.

I remember when people thought because Brad McQuaid made EQ he would do great with Vanguard..oops

And when people says because Mark Jacobs did great with DAOC, Warhammer would be a major success...uh..nope

Or Richard Garriot (Lord British of Ultima Online fame!) would make Tabula Rasa fantastic....D'oh

How about Jack Emmert after COH success he would make Champions Online great?.....Star Trek Online?.....ok, maybe Neverwinter then.

I do believe if you read what i posted you would find the exact reason why I'm still not playing daoc. OLD outdated UI and controls, and it's one of those games that isn't new user friendly so it's not bringing in new people. Simple fact is I'm sure it wasn't Matt Firor's idea to Call it Elder Scrolls Online, he couldn't use Dark age of camelot because it's owned by EA. Bethseda probably wanted the Elder scrolls name attached to it simply because with the name alone you're gonna get huge hype and fanbase from that. I'm sorry you think it is butchered because it doesn't play exactly like the single player games or it doesn't have the graphics(No game will have that kinda graphics until computers and internet speeds are 100x as powerful as they are now) that Skyrim has.

Lore was stretched to fit the game and I'm sure they're working as closely as possible with Bethseda to make it as close to it as possible. Simple fact of the matter is though, they can do what they want with the Lore simply because they create it. It's in a different time period and everything can be written to fit that. If you dont have any faith that they can make it work then by all means continue crying over a game you know almost nothing about right now.

And if you knew anything about the history of Mythic you'd know Mark Jacobs was actually what ruined DaoC, him and Matt Firor had a small power struggle of sorts during the making of Trials of atlantis(ToA) the expansion that many believe ruined DaoC. Matt wanted the expansion to focus more on improving PvP since that was what the playerbase was drawn more to but Mark Jacobs wanted to add PvE content and mythic mainly being former EQ players released ToA. So no I did not have much faith in Warhammer and evidently I was right on.

This whole argument is irrelevant.

In case you haven't noticed (and I think Matt Firor has failed to notice this as well) this is NOT DAOC. This is TES. This is a very different IP with different expectations and Firor et al are ruining it by trying to stretch the TES lore over DAOC gameplay.

Congrats DAOC fans, you got your shitty sequel to your half-baked game at the expense of one of the greatest RPG franchises in gaming history.

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