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MMO's are a failed genre design and a massive scam

24

Comments

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Red Beer, ABPosts: 326Member

    I really wish that I wouldn't get banned for saying things like "How do you manage to see what you type when your head is shoved so far up your ass!"  or  "do you even realize the crap that you're spewing out, or do you have to keep your eyes closed because it stinks so bad!"

    but back on topic...

    I think it's natural that you feel this way OP, but its not the death of the MMO genre. Remember you played it for years before reaching this point. There are many new people trying them out for their first time.  This is just the death of MMO's for you.  Best thing I can recommend is to take two Midol and start a TF2 forum account in the morning.

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen

    I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

     

    Totally agree with this. If my only option was playing themeparks I would have quit a looooong time ago.
  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    I honestly believe the MMO game genre as a whole isn't what it's cracked up to be. Way back in April 2006 an old ex-friend of mine wanted me to try out WoW, when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces. I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone, always hoping my luck would change which it never did. In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

    I was once talking to my hair dresser about WoW and he thinks WoW is a big con of a scam and I think he's right, what is the point of investing your time and money for a game you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all MMO's minus the heavy trolling WoW gets and instead are ghost towns.

    Years ago WoW was king, nowhere days WoW is a dying horse and most people now prefer Team Fortress 2 and the ARMA 2 Mod game, DayZ, the latter of which has all the qualities of an MMO without being an MMO.

    The MMO genre as a whole was really a failed game genre that was broken from the start of it's invention and I think I know why. People don't want to play a game that becomes a job or is a borefest, people want to have fun whenever they like and so I believe we've come to the death of the MMO genre.

    The fact is that mmos are not failures or a scam as it is how you as the player play, and how you enjoy the game that determines alot of how you like the game or not. Since you hate having to deal wiht other players that you do not know you completely destroyed one part of the reason some people play the game, which is to feel part of a online persistent world filled with other players you can interact with. Saddly the trully annoying or problematic players that find ruining the play of other players is a fact ofboth life, and mmo playyet it does give a feel of realism to the game in that you will never meet only people that are nice or such in real life just like in mmos. Most of the time you will have two types of mmo players right now in mmos there is the soloer that well wants to be part of the game world an play alongside other players, and then you have well the speed leveler that wants to get to end game as fast as possible since to most that is where the game starts supposedly. Saddly you will not like hearing this and most likely will come to think it is just a spin, but you as a mmo player failed as playing the mmo is only part of the experince that makes them fun. The people around you, the enviorment, the quests, and just the interaction of playing with or against other players is part of playing mmos. I would say next time do get into talking via general chat, and looking for a good guild to get into (good as in meshes with you and with people you like, not as in top tier guild of the server unless you want to be a top raider.) if you try again an i would say you should. Try the secret world of Guild wars2 as these games wll be pretty fresh an also have none of the past for you like wow or such would.

     

    Finding a guild or atleast a close nit group of online companions that you could play alongside, and talk with is a huge part of making the game much better for you as you take the problem players out of the equation compeltely almost. A good guild can prolong your enjoyment of mmos by months or years, also they can become actual rl friends if it is the right guild of people

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Red Beer, ABPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by Asuran24
    ... Try the secret world of Guild wars2 ...

    that made me chuckle.

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Terrorizor
    Originally posted by Asuran24
    ... Try the secret world of Guild wars2 ...

    that made me chuckle.

    But it s such a secret world lol

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    Right, nobody has ever had any fun in MMOs.  

  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Mesa, AZPosts: 1,090Member
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

    How do you figure?  The most popular MMOs have been themeparks.  Kind of a stretch to call that a "failed design."  There just happens to be an overabundance of them right now, many of which have done it wrong.  

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Waxahachie, TXPosts: 594Member

    I had 3 years of fun in WoW and 2 years of SWG.   Since then... not so much...

     

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

    How do you figure?  The most popular MMOs have been themeparks.  Kind of a stretch to call that a "failed design."  There just happens to be an overabundance of them right now, many of which have done it wrong.  

    Yeah i would agree there is a huge difference between somethign being a failed design, and somethign being oversaturated to the point where the population of players can no longer populate all of the games of that type effectively. It is just like with movies really as a style or genre of movie is seen as extremely popular that style or type gets over used, and alot of pretty low quality movies of the type appear too during this.  The same is true here in that themeparks are very successful or had been which caused the genre to be filled with them, and several dev's failed to creaate worthwhile themepark games, but the themepark model does not beecome failed for that fact.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,452Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times.

     

     

    But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner.

    I never liked the idea of playing with random people,

    I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone

    , always hoping my luck would change which it never did.

    In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

    I hate to say it but the problem is with you. This is not to say mmo's don't have issues or that some people believe they are garbage. but Trol1 has it: you hate ot play alone, you hate to find new friends to play with. You enjoyed yourself when you had someone to play with.

    I'm not a big believer (at all) at pinning problems on others and instead believe that the key to changing your life lies in you.

    If you don't take the time to find the right guild then of course you are going to join a guild of people who "just want to join". joining a guild takes effort. It's not about answering some spam on mmo chat.

    If you don't make the effort why should others?

    I agree your friend is not much of a friend but that's about something else.

    Either quit the mmo genre or make a real effort to find a small family oriented guild of decent people. Believe it or not it's possible.

  • darker70darker70 stokePosts: 813Member
    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon
    Originally posted by evolver1972

    While I tend to agree that nowadays MMOs that require subscriptions to play are a rip off, I disagree that MMOs are a failed genre.  There are some great looking games coming down the pipeline very soon (or that have recently come out) that will keep the MMO genre firmly entrenched as a popular pastime.  Among these are Guild Wars 2, The Secret World, and Archeage.  Will any one of them, or a combination of them "kill" WoW?  That remains to be seen, but probably not.

     

    It's true that some games have become "borefests" as you put it and the "clones" of those games will probably ultimately fail.  But the games that bring something truly innovative and fun to the genre will succeed.....and succeed well, I bet.

     

    Edit:  Looked at your game history so removed the question about WoW being your only MMO experience.  However, from your post it seems that your main beef is with WoW.  You do realize that WoW is no longer indicative of the genre, right?

    Well I think most people would say that WoW helped defy the genre as it is today. I suppose I'm still angry with the game.

    Nope most people pre Wow will tell you Wow defined nothing it plagarised everything before it,Blizzard took a bit from every Mo to name a few DAOC,AC2,Rubies of Eventide.

    There was nothing remotely original at launch they just promoted well and rode the WOW trademark,they also go lucky as broadband was ever popular and they then became the only viable option as Mo's in those days were pretty scarce.

    image

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,424Member Uncommon

    It is the design of the games that fail because they are designed to solo,so you will NEVER get that feel of being a part of groups all the time and gaining steady friendships.Using Wow as an example,the whole design is based on you following those npc maakers all around zone to zone and there is absolutely no incentive or pressure to group up.So you spend 99% of the time soloing,there is not going to be that want to group attitude.

    When a game example early years FFXI is designed to 90% of the time  group ,it becomes common place ,then people start statric groups to play steady with each other,become friends and learn from each other.

    IMO WOW was a VERY bad design for this genre,because it was the game that the majority of MMO players played first.This is what they knew and grew up on and unless you were one of the few that actually played early FFXI you would have NEVER understood a grouping game.

    EQ was no better,that game ,including EQ2 is more about dungeon looting,that is not grouping for the sake of the game and having fun with combat,that is just chasing chest loot.Once again the FFXI game did NOT cater to that,if you wanted the rarfe loot,it truly was RARE and took a long time to camp it.Nope the basis of the design was to enjoy your characters skills,adavancing your character over SEVERAL classes ,not just one and end game.

    There is of course always the people that don't want to play with others,well all i can say is why play a MMO ONLINE to play by yourself?It makes no sense whatsoever.If you enjoy that type of game,then those soloists should be lobbying developers to make that type of game for soloers.What WOW tried to do is make a superficial game,the solo part was really simple ,then  copy that EQ dungeon looting.You played ONLY one class so character developement was far below what FFXI offered for skills and advancement.

    Choice is a good thing,i am not about to say solo or MMO is better,they EACH have their place,we have ALL played solo rpg's and MMO rpg's.The only issue i have is the CHOICE is SHALLOW,FFXI has changed so now ALL the games are designed to solo and random group up for loot.That gives us ZERO choice which is why so many are not happy with game design right now.

    Don't beleive me??Name ONE game that doesn't use hand holding markers over npc heads?Markers on maps?XP and loot tied to those marker quests?heck it's all designed to be a simple solofest.

     

     

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • rznkainrznkain Dugspur, VAPosts: 539Member
    Originally posted by RudyRaccoon

    I honestly believe the MMO game genre as a whole isn't what it's cracked up to be. Way back in April 2006 an old ex-friend of mine wanted me to try out WoW, when I first played this game I was really amazed with it as I never played a top class MMO game before it, trying out my first character as a Gnome Warrior along with my ex-friend, those were fun times. But then things changed, as I wanted to play new characters, he didn't want to help me anymore and I ended up being a loner. I never liked the idea of playing with random people, some nice and most are douces and eventally it became nothing but douces. I played up until 2010 and the last 2 years on private servers and I still ended up being alone, always hoping my luck would change which it never did. In between these years I played other MMO's and they still had the same problem, I was still bored and lonely. Seriously how do you people put up with this? Joining guilds or groups is not for me because all people do is bitch or stay silent.

    I was once talking to my hair dresser about WoW and he thinks WoW is a big con of a scam and I think he's right, what is the point of investing your time and money for a game you don't enjoy and I believe it's the same with all MMO's minus the heavy trolling WoW gets and instead are ghost towns.

    Years ago WoW was king, nowhere days WoW is a dying horse and most people now prefer Team Fortress 2 and the ARMA 2 Mod game, DayZ, the latter of which has all the qualities of an MMO without being an MMO.

    The MMO genre as a whole was really a failed game genre that was broken from the start of it's invention and I think I know why. People don't want to play a game that becomes a job or is a borefest, people want to have fun whenever they like and so I believe we've come to the death of the MMO genre.


     Thank you for your insight what gaming company do you work for and what games have you created and or devloped?

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member

    MMOs just aren't for you. The only thing that makes MMOs unique among gaming genres is the community aspects and in your post it's the one aspect you shut out totally. While I personally think the MMO genre is in trouble because game developers have lost focus on the community aspect it's far from dieing. A game like WOW is an aging animal and while some servers may seem dead it's because 80% of the population are at level cap doing the gear grind. lower level areas are most probably sparsely populated on these servers.

     

    While some view things such as auction houses, dungeon finders, instanced content, solo content and many more features of modern MMOs a boon I personally see them as what is bringing this genre down as a whole. These features take people out of the community and leave them little reason to interact with other players other than small talk. These features are what are taking the community aspect out of the modern MMO and without a thriving community a MMO is nothing more than a piss poor single player game that happens to have other people running around in it.

     

    Bren

    while(horse==dead)
    {
    beat();
    }

  • MephsterMephster Tyria, NJPosts: 1,188Member

    Don't know about massive scam but yeah, failed design for sure. 

    Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!

    http://www.grimdawn.com/

  • Asuran24Asuran24 St. pual, MNPosts: 517Member

    Many could say that the original design of mmos would be the failed design only in that they were not nearly as popular as modern mmos. There are so many ways of catagorizing somethign as failed ranging from not meeting expectations to failing to live up to what itt was ment to be. So if you compare the numbers of players that modern/wow mmos brought in to the pops of players in pre-modern mmos you could say that these early games were failures comparitively. Yet also you could look at how the two types of mmos adhereed to the ide od what an mmo was supposed to be by the players, and find that both sides see each other's mmos as failed too. Failed designs here will be more based on personal take on the genre not by trully the games failing or not.

     

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon

    Remember WoW was not the first MMO. MMOs didn't become a scam until after WoW showed up. The early days before WoW were worth every penny.

  • zyklonianzyklonian el paso, TXPosts: 51Member

    seems like you have a social anxiety disorder. MMOs might not be helping that

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    I'm a little confused why you played WoW for so long if you don't like playing with other people or MMO's; which is pretty much what I got from the post.

    It's strange.  The combination of the avatar and some of the word usage had me imagining a females voice while I read the post, but no that wasn't right.

    I don't want to be rude or offend the OP in any way.  I'm wondering if there might be some RL "orientation" that may be the root of the, what seems like, anti-social behavior and somwhat hostile attitude towards the playerbase.  I do apologize, I'm not tryign to flame the OP or anything.

  • IchmenIchmen Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1,228Member

    im sorry but WoW is not a top class MMO... its too dumbed down for mass consumption, may as well call mcdonalds high quality burgers cause we all know its not.. 

    WoW is at best and avarage quality mmo. nothing more nothing less, to use it as a crutch to imply that all games before or past its inception are scams or garbage.. is foolish as that means you personally have played every single game out there in the MMO bracket both before and after WoW (if that is true wow.. you have to be what late 30s by now ???)

    MMOs are by design a team based system.. playing solo has always been determental to a game's enjoyment, unless the games core is 100% built for that. (think of mmos like a round of counter strike. you cant play CS on an empty server even with bots. its just not fun, but add in a full set of real players and the game is more enjoyable)

    the only scams in MMOs are the ones put out by big wig companies that nickle and dime you for low quality crap. 

    charging 30-60bucks for a boxed game (or D2D key) then another 10-15bucks sub for a game that is by all faults solitare... is a scam in my books. but then again most of those "scams" are created by the players who play them.. people today are far to happy to piss money down the toilet playing junk because some bigwig company's name is on it.. 

     

    everyone knows, good games are diamonds in a whole big stinking pile of manure....

    CPU: Intel Core i7 CPU 860 2.8GHz
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  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    MMOs have their issues, but they also have some strenghts as well.

    But they are made for social players, there is not really any need to design them for loners like OP, single player games are designed for those players.

  • Originally posted by Wizardry

    It is the design of the games that fail because they are designed to solo,so you will NEVER get that feel of being a part of groups all the time and gaining steady friendships.Using Wow as an example,the whole design is based on you following those npc maakers all around zone to zone and there is absolutely no incentive or pressure to group up.So you spend 99% of the time soloing,there is not going to be that want to group attitude.

    When a game example early years FFXI is designed to 90% of the time  group ,it becomes common place ,then people start statric groups to play steady with each other,become friends and learn from each other.

    IMO WOW was a VERY bad design for this genre,because it was the game that the majority of MMO players played first.This is what they knew and grew up on and unless you were one of the few that actually played early FFXI you would have NEVER understood a grouping game.

    EQ was no better,that game ,including EQ2 is more about dungeon looting,that is not grouping for the sake of the game and having fun with combat,that is just chasing chest loot.Once again the FFXI game did NOT cater to that,if you wanted the rarfe loot,it truly was RARE and took a long time to camp it.Nope the basis of the design was to enjoy your characters skills,adavancing your character over SEVERAL classes ,not just one and end game.

    There is of course always the people that don't want to play with others,well all i can say is why play a MMO ONLINE to play by yourself?It makes no sense whatsoever.If you enjoy that type of game,then those soloists should be lobbying developers to make that type of game for soloers.What WOW tried to do is make a superficial game,the solo part was really simple ,then  copy that EQ dungeon looting.You played ONLY one class so character developement was far below what FFXI offered for skills and advancement.

    Choice is a good thing,i am not about to say solo or MMO is better,they EACH have their place,we have ALL played solo rpg's and MMO rpg's.The only issue i have is the CHOICE is SHALLOW,FFXI has changed so now ALL the games are designed to solo and random group up for loot.That gives us ZERO choice which is why so many are not happy with game design right now.

    Don't beleive me??Name ONE game that doesn't use hand holding markers over npc heads?Markers on maps?XP and loot tied to those marker quests?heck it's all designed to be a simple solofest.

     

     

     

     

    This is about the only decent response to the OP so far.

     

    I don't think the OP is alone at all in struggling with the design of MMOs. I certainly do. The last MMO I really gave a decent shot at being social in was Rift. Ok, doesn't help I'm Australian, living in Australia and find most Australians to be beer-guzzling ungrateful wankers, but still, I tried. Think it was 4 guilds I joined and left. Finding like-minded people was very difficult, and even when I did, they would often have "given in" to the loot is everything rule that dominates MMOs since WoW.

     

    I even tried roleplaying a dwarven merchant, calling out bargains and jesting with whoever even glanced my way. I was on a RP server, but it didn't really help.

     

    I think it was partly also because I could only play a few hours, every second or third day, because I'm a busy academic.

     

    Now, since the gameplay allows single player progress much of the time then what you end up doing is playing alone like the OP mentions (and you are alone even when grouped to do dungeons when everyone else is silent because silence is the best way to get the loot fastest), eventually realising that the gameplay is really repetitive and leaving.

     

    Not sure that MMOs are a massive scam (though they are going that way as RMT stealthily creeps into the game every way the designers can imagine) but I begin to agree the current design is failing.

     

     

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,978Member Uncommon

    Let's clarify a few points.

    MMO's have not failed, people buy/play them by the millions and companies are making money off of them.

    MMO's are not scams, they are designed to make money for their Developers, if they happen to entertain you in the process they're likely to make a bunch of money. (esp in the term of long term subs or purchases from the cash shop)

    MMORPG's may have evolved in different directions than some of us would like (me, I prefer more realistic virtual worlds with consequences for failure, a la EVE) however that does not mean as a genre they have failed.

    Some MMO titles do certainly fail (close their doors or go on life support), but overall I keep seeing new titles released every year so again, someone is having fun out there.

    MMO's can provide a good social experience.  I'll grant you, they are not designed around social mechanics anywhere near what they were in the past, but still, if you go looking for people to play with, you'll find them.

    That said, they are not a substitute for having a real world social life and they won't fix it if you don't have one. (speaking as one with experience) image

    There is much I don't like about today's MMO's, however there are more than enough titles that I manage to "find the fun" in even if it's only for a shorter period of time than I would prefer.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
    I would agree with "themeparks are a failed design".

    How do you figure?  The most popular MMOs have been themeparks.  Kind of a stretch to call that a "failed design."  There just happens to be an overabundance of them right now, many of which have done it wrong.  

     

    Ditto.  The failure is in implementation, not in the genre.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • kiiixkiiix MegaardPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    MMOs have their issues, but they also have some strenghts as well.

    But they are made for social players, there is not really any need to design them for loners like OP, single player games are designed for those players.

    This

    That one in a million Anime loving,Workout crazy, Gamer.
    KiX0@Steam/Raptr

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