As Warrior you should try Sword/Sword, great for PvP - can easily get in range and keep in range and bleed/cripple/snare someone and box them in.
Great for pushing a player into a corner and just unleashing...
Using Gun or Greatsword as 2nd weapon set, easily keep up and outplay most casters/ranged.
But, if the ranged player is really good they'll have a melee 2nd weapon set and stun/snare and disengage to range and weapon swap or a defensive 2nd set for absorbing/blocking/interupting you once in melee and then kiting/disengaging to range.
So yes, I found zero none no issues with melee vs. range in this BWE.
I haven't noticed any 'glaring' issues vs ranged. Melee is always more risky. It always will be.
Thats besides the point, why can ranged chars cast and move, yet melees get locked in place? thats the issue I am reffering to.
That has never been the case. Melee can move while attacking.
I played all the time in spvp Ele dual daggers and just 1 of my 20 skills requires me to stand still and it don't locked me in place, its possible to stop it at anytime...
You can most definitely attack on the move, not sure where the OP is reading this false information from. I would recommend actually playing the game before just assuming.
Also, melee attacks seem to do more damage than most ranged attacks. Finally, an MMO that is doing it right since DAoC. There are still some issues here and there, but overall, I felt it was pretty balanced playing my Guardian to 33/34 this past weekend in PvE and PvP.
And as others have said, all classes have melee and ranged capabilities. And with weapon swapping, you can swap to exactly what you need at that time on the fly in combat. I have had some frustration with some of the melee Guardian skills requiring you to stand still (this is a VERY mobile game), but for the most part, once you learn how to play the class better, you tend to not notice it as much.
I would like to see more "static casting" abilities for ranged attacks and more "mobile casting" on melee/close ranged attacks. Ranged is always so powerful in large scale PvP combat, so the less mobility the better.
Melee was fine in BWE1 however they made it evident that as of BWE2 if you want to WvW you need range or you can be the group rezzer.
I understand why some people complain about that in WvW but its a bit silly, even with a siege golem (120k hp) its risky to go melee range when 20+ players are aiming the same area...
Did they ever get around to fixing melee chars so they actually have any chance in hell vs a ranged char? from what I read melee chars have to stop moving and get locked in place during a skill cast, yet most of the ranged chars if not all can shoot, or cast while moving. When I read this I decided right there not to touch GW2 if such a glaring imbalance was left in game.. well that and the fact gw2 is just the newest world of warcraft clone from what I have seen so far. Only consideried it because its b2p, I don't mind if its a wow clone, but I do mind stupid glaring balance issues like the one I mentioned with melee's bascally having 0 chance at all to catch a ranged char.
I was going to take some time and give a good response because I'm a guardian and I've never had any issue what so ever but then I read this "well that and the fact gw2 is just the newest world of warcraft clone from what I have seen so far." and figured I'd just be wasting my time because in my mind if anyone thinks Guild Wars 2 is anything like WoW they have serious issues and aren't really looking for reasonable answers just a fight.
"melee chars have to stop moving and get locked in place during a skill cast," This isn't Tera where your character anchors down for every skill cast.
Melee was fine in BWE1 however they made it evident that as of BWE2 if you want to WvW you need range or you can be the group rezzer.
Zerg vs. Zerg ranged will always and should always have the advantage.
Why? No friendly fire enabled for ranged attack, which honestly in a MMO is a good thing (can't enforce army discipline in a game)
Leave the zerg, recruit a few friends and go hit supply camps and minor objectives.
Helps the war effort a lot more than standing around wishing you were ranged.
Or just weapon swap...
Melee vs. Ranged in small group combat or 1 on 1, I feel melee has more of an advantage at most time due to the increased damage and (with proper skill set up) ability to stay close and pummel.
Melee was fine in BWE1 however they made it evident that as of BWE2 if you want to WvW you need range or you can be the group rezzer.
I understand why some people complain about that in WvW but its a bit silly, even with a siege golem (120k hp) its risky to go melee range when 20+ players are aiming the same area...
Honestly don't bother... look at his post history, the guy spews nonsense about a game Im sure he doesn't even play (or have any intention of playing). Some of his arguments are flat-out ridiculous or even worse, just a straight lie that anyone who has actually played would know the difference instantly.
He's just trying to be a clever troll ..... don't feed.....
Some of the melee skills on various classes require staying in one place, some of them don't. However, ranged attackers have a gigantic advantage versus playing a melee character. Mobs hit hard enough that it doesn't make sense to even play a melee character right now. Kiting is the best option, but having a combat system where it is circle strafe & repeat is not a combat system.
Unless things change with combat, they have massively hyped and fallen flat with the current implementation. It also concerns me somewhat that numerous forum posters are harassing anyone that points out flaws with this game. It's as if the nuts from the old republic forums have found a new home.
Some of the melee skills on various classes require staying in one place, some of them don't. However, ranged attackers have a gigantic advantage versus playing a melee character. Mobs hit hard enough that it doesn't make sense to even play a melee character right now. Kiting is the best option, but having a combat system where it is circle strafe & repeat is not a combat system.
Unless things change with combat, they have massively hyped and fallen flat with the current implementation. It also concerns me somewhat that numerous forum posters are harassing anyone that points out flaws with this game. It's as if the nuts from the old republic forums have found a new home.
Completely false and incorrect... it's not a "flaw" you just need to learn how to play better. I play Melee and I have zero issues against ranged. I know many, many others who say the exact same thing. Do they get me? Sure.... do I get them back? Absolutely... if I was melee and crushed every ranged class/mob I encountered it would be the opposite problem that you're stating....
You need to learn how to dodge and strafe and if your not comfortable with that then yes, play a ranged character. It's certainly much more forgiving than playing melee (which isn't the same as range > melee).
You need to learn how to dodge and strafe and if your not comfortable with that then yes, play a ranged character. It's certainly much more forgiving than playing melee (which isn't the same as range > melee).
Agreed 100%
Melee in GW2 has a much higher learning curve and a much sharper skill ceiling, but once you get there, man is it so fun and challenging and rewarding.
Some of the melee skills on various classes require staying in one place, some of them don't. However, ranged attackers have a gigantic advantage versus playing a melee character. Mobs hit hard enough that it doesn't make sense to even play a melee character right now. Kiting is the best option, but having a combat system where it is circle strafe & repeat is not a combat system.
Unless things change with combat, they have massively hyped and fallen flat with the current implementation. It also concerns me somewhat that numerous forum posters are harassing anyone that points out flaws with this game. It's as if the nuts from the old republic forums have found a new home.
I'm a level 38 Guardian with nearly 90 hours of game play in the BWE's I truly find comments like this utterly false or someone really didn't understand how to play.
There might be one other explination which would be people keep trying to play this like WoW where they put a melee character's face into the chest of a mob and hope to not die.... THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL MMO learn to play using dodge correctly and utilizing your utility skills. Yes if you don't dodge correctly you will die and if you don't use utility you will die, and if you try and stand still YOU WILL DIE...!! Its not the games fault and its not melee classes faults its the players fault.
Everything I marked in the above comment is flat out NOT TRUE. We aren't harrasing anyone who point out flaws we are pointing out lies because its just simply not true or if its true its because someone is stuck in a mindset and wants Guild Wars 2 to be their old game and REFUSE to learn how to play the game correctly.
I don't understand why people like to victimize everything. There is so much nonsense floating around.
1) there is no melee chars. Every character has ranged weapons. It makes common sense to wield a melee with a ranged weapon. In case of kiting - swap.
2) As for weapon swapping a lot of people don't seem to use it at all effectively. They seem to think that you just have it for fun. After you popped 2,3,4 and 5 and the utility skills that make sense, you better have swapped to secondary weapon. if your standing around button smashing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 (which does negible damage) you are doing it wrong. You need to constantly swap.
3) downed state is not defeated. a lot of people see downed state as death. The game has been designed in my with that your supposed to have a high properbility of going into downed state during a challenging fight. For some reason a lot of players think they are being punished or are playing wrong. No, the game simply is tuned for people often falling into downed state.
4) problem with characters who using melee weapons is that, sometimes a big bunch of mobs will target a single player and almost one-shot the player. In WvW the same thing happens when AOE damage reigns down on them from 20 different players.
I really don't see any big balance issues between melee and range right now, but here's the thing you have to realize...
In WvW, you should be using a ranged weapon like 90% of the time. And this has nothing to do with "balance" between melee and range, it has to do with the reality of the situation. You are probably in one large group of players going up against another large group of players. Unless your entire group charges their group, you should be using ranged. Because if you close to melee distance and no one else does...you will get destroyed by the entire enemy group. It's just how it works, and there's nothing wrong with that.
That said...in sPvP and PvE, I saw no great imbalance. I played a warrior in sPvP and I tore people up with my greatsword. That hundred blades skill does MASSIVE damage...and if you stun the enemy with the mace F1 attack before doing it, it is very effective.
And PvE, I will admit that melee is more work to use, but it is just as effective as ranged if played well. You can't just keep running back and kite a crippled monster, you actually have to actively dodge and plan your attacks intelligently. This said though, I found melee to be actually faster in PvE because it does more damage. So you trade off the safety of ranged for the increased killing power of melee...I think that's fair.
4) problem with characters who using melee weapons is that, sometimes a big bunch of mobs will target a single player and almost one-shot the player. In WvW the same thing happens when AOE damage reigns down on them from 20 different players.
It's funny you say that... if a player could grab 5 mobs and kill them all everyone would complain saying the game is too easy.
Instead, ANet made the mobs be more unpredictible, make you work for your kills and actually REQUIRE you to move/strafe/dodge and people STILL complain because herp derp it's way too tough....
I just don't get it.... it's actually incredibly simple though. If you want to sit there like <that other game> in one place absorbing all damage and hitting 2-3-4-5 over and over you will die.... a LOT.... you will probably ragequit thinking the game is impossible.
If you find this is too much, then play a ranged-based class (you're right about the weapons comments but I don't want to dive into that on this topic) then play a ranger/ele/mesmer/necro. If you enjoy moving about and dodging hits - then play a melee class.
I honestly feel other MMOs have spoiled the masses into thinking the way a game should be played is "stand still - 1-2-3-4, repeat - loot - next". In GW2, you will be absolutely obliterated if you do that..... and furthermore, if you go into PVP and try to do something similar it'll be the EXACT same situation. In fact, I actually feel GW2's PVE actually teaches you how to be a better player in both aspects of game play. It certainly won't be for everyone, not all players like this kind of challenge, but the ones that do - well - they just found their game for the next 5+ years (IMO).
4) problem with characters who using melee weapons is that, sometimes a big bunch of mobs will target a single player and almost one-shot the player. In WvW the same thing happens when AOE damage reigns down on them from 20 different players.
It's funny you say that... if a player could grab 5 mobs and kill them all everyone would complain saying the game is too easy.
Instead, ANet made the mobs be more unpredictible, make you work for your kills and actually REQUIRE you to move/strafe/dodge and people STILL complain because herp derp it's way too tough....
I just don't get it.... it's actually incredibly simple though. If you want to sit there like in one place absorbing all damage and hitting 2-3-4-5 over and over you will die.... a LOT.... you will probably ragequit thinking the game is impossible.
If you find this is too much, then play a ranged-based class (you're right about the weapons comments but I don't want to dive into that on this topic) then play a ranger/ele/mesmer/necro. If you enjoy moving about and dodging hits - then play a melee class.
I honestly feel other MMOs have spoiled the masses into thinking the way a game should be played is "stand still - 1-2-3-4, repeat - loot - next". In GW2, you will be absolutely obliterated if you do that..... and furthermore, if you go into PVP and try to do something similar it'll be the EXACT same situation. In fact, I actually feel GW2's PVE actually teaches you how to be a better player in both aspects of game play. It certainly won't be for everyone, not all players like this kind of challenge, but the ones that do - well - they just found their game for the next 5+ years (IMO).
I totally agree!! This is where the limitation of the MMO player comes in. They expect the same as other games and when they don't get it they cry, whine and, pout. If it is the same, they cry, whine and, pout.
Is OP serious? WOW clone? It's as far from WOW you can get. No holy trinity, no normal quests, gear doesn't matter, 3 faction massive scale pvp with thousands of players, skill based combat with dodge etc etc etc. Onyl things that resembles wow might be crafting and that it's a high fantasy setting. Oh! And no traditional raids thank god for that.
In BWE1, I was art of a large group event in the Norn area. My horde all rolled up to what amounted to a small army of Gwarl, who ALL fired off their alpha strike big hit at once. all in a small cluster in front of the melee group (which I was in).
3 of us were smart and used dodge or other defensive structures (I was on a warrior and just hit shield stance, which blocks ALL damage while active). We lived. Everyone else, including other shield bearing goons, did not, and tried to tank and spank it.
Balanced well in everything but storming a keep. Just have to suck it up and have a ranged armed. Which, i kinda wanted to stick to two melee weapon sets for my warrior.
Ground vs ground fights in wvwvw is balanced. Can break the lines, dps down a few targets (letting our range teammates finish them off), pop some defenses and dodge back to safety.
If you do not have situational awareness as a melee character you will have issues, there is a learning curve in this game because it does not play like some other games. That all said I am not sure how long it will stay that way, if 4/10 people are getting it the other 6 will leave, say what you want but a 60% loss in subs (well not really subs) but you get my drift, will they cave into the masses, that is the question.
Learn a ranged skill as well for those times when being melee won't cut it, at least you won't have to look at the keep twiddling your thumbs.
I played both melee and ranged in both beta events. I found the extra damage available in melee sufficient to offset the benefits of attacking from range. When at range I gained extra survivability through kiting, when in melee I gained extra survivability through killing targets before they could do significant damage to me.
In both cases I gained increased survivability through dodging and mobility.
I will admit that when there are dozens of detonations and the like going off all around you in melee, it can be difficult to see your opponents well enough to time dodges and specialty attacks.
I would love to see some of the FX toned down a bit.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
In BWE1, I was art of a large group event in the Norn area. My horde all rolled up to what amounted to a small army of Gwarl, who ALL fired off their alpha strike big hit at once. all in a small cluster in front of the melee group (which I was in).
3 of us were smart and used dodge or other defensive structures (I was on a warrior and just hit shield stance, which blocks ALL damage while active). We lived. Everyone else, including other shield bearing goons, did not, and tried to tank and spank it.
Man that was a lot of people to rez...
Did you tell the players that died about using block or just write them off as shield bearing goons?
Comments
As Warrior you should try Sword/Sword, great for PvP - can easily get in range and keep in range and bleed/cripple/snare someone and box them in.
Great for pushing a player into a corner and just unleashing...
Using Gun or Greatsword as 2nd weapon set, easily keep up and outplay most casters/ranged.
But, if the ranged player is really good they'll have a melee 2nd weapon set and stun/snare and disengage to range and weapon swap or a defensive 2nd set for absorbing/blocking/interupting you once in melee and then kiting/disengaging to range.
So yes, I found zero none no issues with melee vs. range in this BWE.
I played all the time in spvp Ele dual daggers and just 1 of my 20 skills requires me to stand still and it don't locked me in place, its possible to stop it at anytime...
Melee was fine in BWE1 however they made it evident that as of BWE2 if you want to WvW you need range or you can be the group rezzer.
You can most definitely attack on the move, not sure where the OP is reading this false information from. I would recommend actually playing the game before just assuming.
Also, melee attacks seem to do more damage than most ranged attacks. Finally, an MMO that is doing it right since DAoC. There are still some issues here and there, but overall, I felt it was pretty balanced playing my Guardian to 33/34 this past weekend in PvE and PvP.
And as others have said, all classes have melee and ranged capabilities. And with weapon swapping, you can swap to exactly what you need at that time on the fly in combat. I have had some frustration with some of the melee Guardian skills requiring you to stand still (this is a VERY mobile game), but for the most part, once you learn how to play the class better, you tend to not notice it as much.
I would like to see more "static casting" abilities for ranged attacks and more "mobile casting" on melee/close ranged attacks. Ranged is always so powerful in large scale PvP combat, so the less mobility the better.
I understand why some people complain about that in WvW but its a bit silly, even with a siege golem (120k hp) its risky to go melee range when 20+ players are aiming the same area...
I was going to take some time and give a good response because I'm a guardian and I've never had any issue what so ever but then I read this "well that and the fact gw2 is just the newest world of warcraft clone from what I have seen so far." and figured I'd just be wasting my time because in my mind if anyone thinks Guild Wars 2 is anything like WoW they have serious issues and aren't really looking for reasonable answers just a fight.
"melee chars have to stop moving and get locked in place during a skill cast," This isn't Tera where your character anchors down for every skill cast.
Zerg vs. Zerg ranged will always and should always have the advantage.
Why? No friendly fire enabled for ranged attack, which honestly in a MMO is a good thing (can't enforce army discipline in a game)
Leave the zerg, recruit a few friends and go hit supply camps and minor objectives.
Helps the war effort a lot more than standing around wishing you were ranged.
Or just weapon swap...
Melee vs. Ranged in small group combat or 1 on 1, I feel melee has more of an advantage at most time due to the increased damage and (with proper skill set up) ability to stay close and pummel.
Honestly don't bother... look at his post history, the guy spews nonsense about a game Im sure he doesn't even play (or have any intention of playing). Some of his arguments are flat-out ridiculous or even worse, just a straight lie that anyone who has actually played would know the difference instantly.
He's just trying to be a clever troll ..... don't feed.....
Some of the melee skills on various classes require staying in one place, some of them don't. However, ranged attackers have a gigantic advantage versus playing a melee character. Mobs hit hard enough that it doesn't make sense to even play a melee character right now. Kiting is the best option, but having a combat system where it is circle strafe & repeat is not a combat system.
Unless things change with combat, they have massively hyped and fallen flat with the current implementation. It also concerns me somewhat that numerous forum posters are harassing anyone that points out flaws with this game. It's as if the nuts from the old republic forums have found a new home.
Completely false and incorrect... it's not a "flaw" you just need to learn how to play better. I play Melee and I have zero issues against ranged. I know many, many others who say the exact same thing. Do they get me? Sure.... do I get them back? Absolutely... if I was melee and crushed every ranged class/mob I encountered it would be the opposite problem that you're stating....
You need to learn how to dodge and strafe and if your not comfortable with that then yes, play a ranged character. It's certainly much more forgiving than playing melee (which isn't the same as range > melee).
Agreed 100%
Melee in GW2 has a much higher learning curve and a much sharper skill ceiling, but once you get there, man is it so fun and challenging and rewarding.
I'm a level 38 Guardian with nearly 90 hours of game play in the BWE's I truly find comments like this utterly false or someone really didn't understand how to play.
There might be one other explination which would be people keep trying to play this like WoW where they put a melee character's face into the chest of a mob and hope to not die.... THIS IS NOT A TYPICAL MMO learn to play using dodge correctly and utilizing your utility skills. Yes if you don't dodge correctly you will die and if you don't use utility you will die, and if you try and stand still YOU WILL DIE...!! Its not the games fault and its not melee classes faults its the players fault.
Everything I marked in the above comment is flat out NOT TRUE. We aren't harrasing anyone who point out flaws we are pointing out lies because its just simply not true or if its true its because someone is stuck in a mindset and wants Guild Wars 2 to be their old game and REFUSE to learn how to play the game correctly.
I don't understand why people like to victimize everything. There is so much nonsense floating around.
1) there is no melee chars. Every character has ranged weapons. It makes common sense to wield a melee with a ranged weapon. In case of kiting - swap.
2) As for weapon swapping a lot of people don't seem to use it at all effectively. They seem to think that you just have it for fun. After you popped 2,3,4 and 5 and the utility skills that make sense, you better have swapped to secondary weapon. if your standing around button smashing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1 (which does negible damage) you are doing it wrong. You need to constantly swap.
3) downed state is not defeated. a lot of people see downed state as death. The game has been designed in my with that your supposed to have a high properbility of going into downed state during a challenging fight. For some reason a lot of players think they are being punished or are playing wrong. No, the game simply is tuned for people often falling into downed state.
4) problem with characters who using melee weapons is that, sometimes a big bunch of mobs will target a single player and almost one-shot the player. In WvW the same thing happens when AOE damage reigns down on them from 20 different players.
I really don't see any big balance issues between melee and range right now, but here's the thing you have to realize...
In WvW, you should be using a ranged weapon like 90% of the time. And this has nothing to do with "balance" between melee and range, it has to do with the reality of the situation. You are probably in one large group of players going up against another large group of players. Unless your entire group charges their group, you should be using ranged. Because if you close to melee distance and no one else does...you will get destroyed by the entire enemy group. It's just how it works, and there's nothing wrong with that.
That said...in sPvP and PvE, I saw no great imbalance. I played a warrior in sPvP and I tore people up with my greatsword. That hundred blades skill does MASSIVE damage...and if you stun the enemy with the mace F1 attack before doing it, it is very effective.
And PvE, I will admit that melee is more work to use, but it is just as effective as ranged if played well. You can't just keep running back and kite a crippled monster, you actually have to actively dodge and plan your attacks intelligently. This said though, I found melee to be actually faster in PvE because it does more damage. So you trade off the safety of ranged for the increased killing power of melee...I think that's fair.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It's funny you say that... if a player could grab 5 mobs and kill them all everyone would complain saying the game is too easy.
Instead, ANet made the mobs be more unpredictible, make you work for your kills and actually REQUIRE you to move/strafe/dodge and people STILL complain because herp derp it's way too tough....
I just don't get it.... it's actually incredibly simple though. If you want to sit there like <that other game> in one place absorbing all damage and hitting 2-3-4-5 over and over you will die.... a LOT.... you will probably ragequit thinking the game is impossible.
If you find this is too much, then play a ranged-based class (you're right about the weapons comments but I don't want to dive into that on this topic) then play a ranger/ele/mesmer/necro. If you enjoy moving about and dodging hits - then play a melee class.
I honestly feel other MMOs have spoiled the masses into thinking the way a game should be played is "stand still - 1-2-3-4, repeat - loot - next". In GW2, you will be absolutely obliterated if you do that..... and furthermore, if you go into PVP and try to do something similar it'll be the EXACT same situation. In fact, I actually feel GW2's PVE actually teaches you how to be a better player in both aspects of game play. It certainly won't be for everyone, not all players like this kind of challenge, but the ones that do - well - they just found their game for the next 5+ years (IMO).
I barely played this weekend, but I played a bunch last weekend. I mainly played a Guardian, which is about as melee as you can get.
My guy kicked all kinds of ass. I never once felt like I was gimped.
I totally agree!! This is where the limitation of the MMO player comes in. They expect the same as other games and when they don't get it they cry, whine and, pout. If it is the same, they cry, whine and, pout.
Just play the game people!
The key to ranged AND melee is simple: Don't get hit.
Use dodge, cripple, walls, interrupts to prevent damage rather than absorbing it.
GW2 lacks a faceroll mode.
Is OP serious? WOW clone? It's as far from WOW you can get. No holy trinity, no normal quests, gear doesn't matter, 3 faction massive scale pvp with thousands of players, skill based combat with dodge etc etc etc. Onyl things that resembles wow might be crafting and that it's a high fantasy setting. Oh! And no traditional raids thank god for that.
Funny story.
In BWE1, I was art of a large group event in the Norn area. My horde all rolled up to what amounted to a small army of Gwarl, who ALL fired off their alpha strike big hit at once. all in a small cluster in front of the melee group (which I was in).
3 of us were smart and used dodge or other defensive structures (I was on a warrior and just hit shield stance, which blocks ALL damage while active). We lived. Everyone else, including other shield bearing goons, did not, and tried to tank and spank it.
Man that was a lot of people to rez...
Ground vs ground fights in wvwvw is balanced. Can break the lines, dps down a few targets (letting our range teammates finish them off), pop some defenses and dodge back to safety.
If you do not have situational awareness as a melee character you will have issues, there is a learning curve in this game because it does not play like some other games. That all said I am not sure how long it will stay that way, if 4/10 people are getting it the other 6 will leave, say what you want but a 60% loss in subs (well not really subs) but you get my drift, will they cave into the masses, that is the question.
Learn a ranged skill as well for those times when being melee won't cut it, at least you won't have to look at the keep twiddling your thumbs.
I played both melee and ranged in both beta events. I found the extra damage available in melee sufficient to offset the benefits of attacking from range. When at range I gained extra survivability through kiting, when in melee I gained extra survivability through killing targets before they could do significant damage to me.
In both cases I gained increased survivability through dodging and mobility.
I will admit that when there are dozens of detonations and the like going off all around you in melee, it can be difficult to see your opponents well enough to time dodges and specialty attacks.
I would love to see some of the FX toned down a bit.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Did you tell the players that died about using block or just write them off as shield bearing goons?
If by "fix" you mean did they give my OP guardian more ranged options before then yes they balanced it.