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Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by Loke666 Well, I don't think ESO is so bad as many Skyrim fans fear but I still din't hear why I should play it instead of Guildwars 2 which shares those features...
Well there are some very key differences in the two. GW2 does not have the combat system/ 3 faction open world pvp (and dont try to say WvW is open world, though WvW is badass)/ ES style exploration/ or public dungeons, that ESO has released info on. I'll still be playing GW2 when ESO comes out but ill be playing both for different reasons
So far, the combat system in TESO seems like a direct copy of GW2. You get a smaller number of abilities on the actionbar. Abilities are weapon dependent and you get utility and elite (ultimate) skills. You can combine abilities with other classes and you get to switch abilities between combat at will. The combat itself is action oriented, just like GW2's.
From what I understand, there is going to be no 3 faction world PvP. There is going to be a zone (Cyrodiil, I believe) for 3 faction PvP. Kind of like WvWvW in GW2. The zone may not reset like WvWvW does but since the reset happens once every 2 weeks, it's not a huge deal. Also I prefer GW2's matching server approach. It guarantees that no one server or faction will dominate the other two. That's my personal preference though. "Fair" PvP is much more fun, in my opinion.
GW2 has exploration, puzzles and public dungeons as well.
I have a feeling it will be more like DAOC. 1 Faction vs Faction vs Faction zone (Cyrodiil) and then the 3 Faction specific PvE zones
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFTPlaying: SkyrimFollowing: The RepopulationI want a Virtual World, not just a Game.ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Allow me to correct you here since I've been following GW2 and ESO since info has started pouring out. TESO will have very different combat from GW2, you can sneak, manually block, and strike all similar to an ES fashion. 6 Abilities on hotbar, and there will be partner combo's similar to GW2's.
3 faction Open world pvp will be present in ESO, vs. the instanced map ment for GW2's WvW (which by the way will still be awesome) Strongholds such as Kvatch will be capturable by any faction, and holding territory will be key.
According to Matt Firor they want to keep that open world exploration sense from all the ES titles, where you can run around onto the peak of a mountain to seek something, or on the way to a zone go into a nearby cave. All of these are key elements that make an ES title, an ES title.
Public dungeons in ESO are being done similar to GW2, in the sense that they really want to put the mmo feel back into the genre, and incourage social interaction between players. Something that will also be present in ESO which I enjoy is that credit is given to anyone who participates, there will always be reasons to help, or sabotage someones current activity. This is also present in GW2's world with the dynamic event system in terms of helping others and getting credit.
Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by Loke666 Well, I don't think ESO is so bad as many Skyrim fans fear but I still din't hear why I should play it instead of Guildwars 2 which shares those features...
Public dungeons in ESO are being done similar to GW2, in the sense that they really want to put the mmo sense back into the game, and incourage social interaction between players. Something that will also be present in ESO which I enjoy is that credit is given to anyone who participates, there will always be reasons to help, or sabotage someones current activity. This is also present in GW2's world with the dynamic event system.
Only the province of Cyrodiil is open PvP for the 3 factions. Kind of like the Mists in GW2. As far as the persistence of it, I prefer GW2's approach. It'll mean that no one faction will completely dominate the other two.
Combat is not going to be real time. It's action bar combat which is action oriented like GW2.
Basically, the game is taking stuff that worked for DAoC, WoW and GW2 and running with it. Whether or not it'll work for them, time will tell but so far the only thing it has in common with your average TES game is the lore and the horrible character models.
i'll try it once it comes out and see if i like it or not, its the only way i can truely know if its for me. Reviews from sites and players just never work out for me so i gotta figure it out for myself if i like it or not.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by Loke666 Well, I don't think ESO is so bad as many Skyrim fans fear but I still din't hear why I should play it instead of Guildwars 2 which shares those features...
GW2 is like sub tab target combat with a nice action and dodge twist. You can actually sneak, and actually block in ESO but also has hotbar abilities, which for me makes it sit between TERA and GW2 in that aspect.
In a sense yes, cyrodiil is like the mists. But its an open world, and definitly large enough to stage 3 way faction pvp on top of everything else that will be in it, since its not a zone ment just for the OWPVP.
Like every game, I enjoy the fact of how one takes others idea's and expands, or uses it in a better place. I just highly, highly, disagree with people that say this offers nothing to the genre, will be a terrible game, and/or is a WoW clone. For me ESO and GW2 are the only MMO's ive followed that are further advancing the genre in aspects that have need to be advanced, and shedding some light on a most recently darker time for MMO's, 2012/2013 will be a long, and great two years for newer MMO's in my opinion. Oh and planetside 2 anyone?
Damn that just made it even better. So there will be keeps that are in the open world that you can take too. So does that mean you can go into the other factions realm to take a point of interest, not jus in the main PvPvP area?
In response to others that worry about 1 faction dominance, the other 2 factions could always form an alliance to take down the biggest one, then its another story after they defeat said big faction between the alliance.
Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by Chrisbox Originally posted by Loke666 Well, I don't think ESO is so bad as many Skyrim fans fear but I still din't hear why I should play it instead of Guildwars 2 which shares those features...
Cyrodiil is a zone in the game just like the Mists. It's not an open world. You can't take over keeps in Morrowind or Skyrim. So the PvP is not open world.
Anyway, there is a severe lack of information on the game to hold an informative discussion about it. Most of the stuff we heard about it is nothing more than PR speak.
All good info ty,actually made me a bit more excited.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by CharSol By talking of zones of level appropriate content and backtracking to level for content that you are not yet high enough level for it creates a very different sounding atmosphere than the one I got from Skyrim, especially considering that I barely touched any quests at all on my current playthrough until the mid thirties. I enjoy the freedom to go wherever I fancy and explore to the edges of the world with the assurance that I am always going to find something to do that is engaging and fun. Having to hang around an area I may not necessarily like in order to garner enough experience to move on to another or attempt a quest line that interests me is not my cup of tea by a long shot. If what they actually intend to offer is a world map completely open to explore in any order or pace you wish with the option of quests if you get stuck, bored or just like that - then they really need to make that more clear on their interviews and promotional material. To me, how it appears currently may be loosely related to how one person may be able to play Skyrim if they so wished to but like the options of enjoying it differently are restricted or even removed.
This would be the case in any MMO sandbox or not. In Skyrim the world levels along with you and only you. IN an MMO the only way to do that would be heavy use of phasing, this would be very unpopular with the MMO crowd.
While you are correct in saying using that exact same system would be difficult and noncontinuous in an MMO. The effect of the system can easily be replicated in an MMO setting.
Essentially what Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind attempted to do was to make the relative increase in strength of the character as close to that of the enemies as they could. Essentially, they wanted to get A-B=0, where A is the increase in player strength and B is the increase in enemy strength. Getting exactly 0 would be difficult if not impossible, so there are deviations. If there was a positive value left over, then the player would feel stronger than enemies over time. If negative, then the enemies would feel stronger than the player. (Side note: I would argue that Oblivion fell on the negative side, while Skyrim fell on the positive side.)
However, systems which give this effect already exist in other MMOs. Guild Wars 2 did it with player down-scaling (which is essentially the reverse of Skyrim's system).
Could you take the exact systems of the Traditional Elder Scrolls games and make an MMO out of them? Probably not. But you could take the effects of these systems and replicate them in an MMO which would have a very similar feel to the original. A similar feel to the traditional ES games is what a lot of Elder Scrolls fans were hopeing for with TESO. Its only natural for them to be disappointed that Zenimax decided to go a different route.
Originally posted by BigCountry Yeah, the only way to create a truely socialable mmorpg is to simply provide no rules, and let the players govern themselves. AKA sandbox - UO, Shadowbane, EvE Online, Darkfall etc and now DayZ (which is an experimental FPS mod for f's sake! lol) You cannot have natural socialism in a themepark game. Everyone just waits in line to ride the next ride. Pretty much keeping to themselves, unless a "group ride" (mob boss instance) becomes available, then they are forced into talking/interacting with each other for an hour or so to get the gear/item drop. lol And from what I have read/heard on the podcast, TESO looks to be nothing more than a cloned themepark game, no matter how they keep spinning it not to be. I wish planning/development of TESO would have started after DayZ came out. Perhaps it would have motivated the producers to take slightly different direction....producers/investors would KILL to have the crowd playing DayZ right now...we are talking MAJOR numbers here, and they are not backing down, only growing... I am predicting the DayZ experiment will inspire some truely awesome mmporpgs to form up in the next few years. Least I hope so. If I read correctly, DayZ will be an official map/gametype bundled with Arma III. And if that happens, Arma III will be the best selling game of 2013. And it's not even a mmorpg! People need to wake up. Cloning item grinding themeparks over and over again is slowly staking the term "mmorpg" deep into the ground. Outside of Blizzard, there is no money/future in it at the moment. It needs to take a rest/break. It's way too played out. Grow a set of balls and create something new. Selling out is lazy.
Couldn't agree more! I've been saying the same thing for years now, developers are scared of losing money so they try and clone an MMO instead of taking a risk... Funny thing is, every clone is FAILING!
I've played UO for years, which ruined my MMO experience, in a good way. All these copy and past MMO's bore the hell out of me, nothing has come close to UO in terms of gameplay. And because of that I've never played any modern MMO for more than a month.
Developers need to listen to gamers, take a chance and not make another copy that'll fail in a year (or less) the only thing elder scrolls has going for it is the fanbase, so called "fanboys" may flock to the MMO and keepo it strong just long enough to make developers not smarten up.
Originally posted by jiveturkey12 This game just keeps getting better! Im so glad they decided to go with a themepark style game, with limited hotbar skills, static classes, and locked races for each of the (THREE!) factions... ...Yeah in case anyone of you WoW kids didnt realise theres three factions now, get over the days of Two factions being the norm, everyone knows adding an extra faction automatically makes your game way more intense and in depth, Im just glad they locked the races for each so I dont get too confused, I mean what else could they have done??? Let people pick a race and then join a faction of their choosing?? Howwould I ever be able to tell whose on whose side then??? A different color name over each persons head to signify the difference between their unique choices allowing for a more accurately portrayed Lore-Based game??? Wow thats just way too out there to even comprehend for me why people would even want that many chocies in a game! People need to realize the Elder Scrolls series was never about choices! just simply giving the player the illusion that he/she was making choices! Why would I want to play an Elder Scrolls MMO where I could change my playstyle at anytime and progress my character in a non-linear fashion?? Sorry but thats just far too much work for me, ive got a wife and like 8 kids and a job, I dont play MMO's to stress myself out with all these choies, and im glad Zenimax is making a game for people like me because there isnt nearly enough Themepark games like that anymore! Rift was just way too complex for me, letting me pick multiple classes just got to beoverwhelming in the end, and its ultimately why the game failed. Progress in video games needs to be limited or else the player can just do whatever they want and make hisown adventure and he will never follow the story the developers made specifically for the game! This is an mmoRPG guys, RPG's have and will always be about someone else telling you a story while you sit back and mindlessly enjoy it. What would Table Top RPG's be like if everyone was the Dungeon Master??? Chaos!!! And I for one am glad they arent bringing such rediculous ideas into ESO... and instead giving me a limited set of coices like all the other Elder Scrolls games (Really) did, even though they hid it very well behind all the "Sanboxy" elements that were obviously there to appease all the whiny sandbox kids who keep begging for a different non-linear game. Thank Talos they didnt listen to them this time and decided to stick with a proven method that worked well for other great games like TOR, LOTRO, WAR, all of which are now hurely prosperous and havens for awesome Themepark fans like me!
This has got to be sarcasm, lol, nobody in their right mind would ever want this.
Originally posted by KhinRunite Originally posted by BigCountry Yeah, the only way to create a truely socialable mmorpg is to simply provide no rules, and let the players govern themselves. AKA sandbox - UO, Shadowbane, EvE Online, Darkfall etc and now DayZ (which is an experimental FPS mod for f's sake! lol) .. ....
Meh, the day pure sandbox MMOs become all that's in store will be the day I might stop playing MMOs. I already have to deal with other people power tripping in real life (politics, competition, business, etc) to subject myself to yet another form of lawless-palooza in a game that's supposed to make me relax and have fun.
Something in between would be nice.
^^^^ This is something i totaly agree with and to be honest i dont undesrstand why more poeple dont have this point of view. Why do people want to be an a world that has the same crap that the real world is going through? It is a game i want to have fun and not be caught in drama.
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Ironman2000 Just seems to me as of late, MMORPG.COM is on board with anything that will give them ad revenue or possible ad revenue in the future, instead of giving honest thoughts and impressions on what is a good current or upcoming game. Just sayin....
ok, well tell us what isn't a good game? Because I bet dollars to donuts you will find people who think games you dislike ARE good games.
perhaps the mmorpg.com reviewers could be a little more open to giving negative criticsim in a constructive way but I sense that there is a contingent of angry gamers who won't be happy until they see people opening up their emotional veins and letting their issues bleed out.
I'm sorry, but I never said I disliked the game, so I have no Idea where you get that, i'm just saying that I have seen far too many games reviewed by this site that shouldn't be as gleaming reviews as they are and that it just seems their major add dollars seem to always be the ones that get the good reviews even if the game is a stink bomb. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings about this MMO, but I am a big Elder Scrolls fan, I was playing Skyrim before I logged on here tonight. I just don't think they'll be able to capture the magic of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim in an mmo. and for them to say how great it is before it actually comes out is only fueling the hype meter (and if I recall the hype meter for this one was suprising low).
u know when u are a guild wars 2 fanboi when u read this article and everything reminds you to gw2 from the help with no punishment thingy to the combat....ofc i will not drop the "gw2 clone" as i have some dignity left but this game deft seems worth to keep an eye on
This discussion cracks me up, if you want to see how this game will play, go try DAoC. It will have a separate pvp zone just like DAoC. Of course the combat will probably be somewhat different, but if you will notice it is not a skill system but a class system so character development will be markedly different than the Elder Scrolls games.
Hmm...looks like they took a lot from the gameplay cues of Guild Wars 2 and Tera. If that's the case I'm liking it already ^_^
The shared XP from open world mobs, no penalties to helping players is straight out of Guild Wars 2. Open World events that appear organically as you travel is another feature of Guild Wars 2.
Anything but WOW style play!
You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!
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Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P
Oh, great, now it might come down to a decision between MechWarrior Online and ESO... I won't be able to do both until I get rich, hehe.
There really only needed to be two questions asked about this:
"Did Bethesda make it?"
"Is it first-person?"
Not first person? Then they just seemed to have farmed the IP out to another company then and given up any ideas it might be based on their style of game. Game might as well be called The Subcontracting Scrolls.