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Devs Request feedback: Difficulty Level & Leveling Speed

observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,004Member Uncommon

If you want to leave feedback, click those.

My thoughts.

Difficulty needs to be adjusted.  Granted, i only got to 19 on a warrior, but i was having trouble with melee in this game.  I wasn't playing as pro as i should have been, but i shouldn't have to as a beginner.  I think the devs need to have some sort of difficulty curve.  Some mobs were 1-shotting me, and it was kind of hard to learn the skills, when there was too many people around, with mobs dying so fast.

Leveling speed needs to adjusted for human zone.  I'm not sure about the other 2 races though.  I did almost all the waypoints, skill points, heart quests, except 2 of each i couldn't find.  After this time, i was still 2-3 levels below the next zone.  This is taking into account if you want to be a completionist too, and i don't think one should have to if they want to progress into the next zone.

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Comments

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    Nooo.

     

    Difficulty was NERFED already in BWE2.  

    I would vote for INCREASING IT.

     

    With warrior I was cutting like a butter though everything...

  • KingzainiKingzaini Amhert, NYPosts: 39Member

    As thf I was owning in Pve. Sword/pistol could take down anything with ease

    image

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member

    I really hope they don't make the game easier. My warrior was mowing down mobs like there was no tomorrow. If anything make it more challenging.

  • ZetsueiZetsuei Dana, KYPosts: 252Member

    Thanks for pointing those out. I gave them my opinions on both.

    I really do hope they follow their vision of the game though. I want this game to be a challenge and reward the player for overcoming anything that is in their path. I don't want the game to hand me anything. I want to feel the pride that comes with knowing that I survived or I beat a really hard monster.

    As for the leveling speed, I don't see why people want it increased. If the game is all about the journey then ANET should leave it as is. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they lowered it just a little.

  • cronius77cronius77 Fairfax, VAPosts: 1,347Member Uncommon

    I think the world vs world leveling speed is way to slow compared to pve. pve though is pretty fast IMO it took no time at all if you do the first 4 DE's first then start your personal story to hit 10 or 11 in under two hours. I think thats kinda fast if you are looking to play this game for months or maybe years. Its kinda nice though to have devs actually communicating like this with the community and listening to their feedback. I can only think of one other company that actually does this being Trion Worlds. To bad I cant really get into Rift because both these companies are really awesome.

  • RockhideRockhide Chicagoland, ILPosts: 155Member

    I consider the leveling speed to be well-suited to my tastes.

     

    With the difficulty, IMO the current playerbase doesn't udnerstand that if there aren't some changes made the game is going to suffer for it.  You will wind up with small, nasty, exclusive communities complaining about how the world is dead and WvWvW is dead (not enough people participating) and how ArenaNet needs to facilitate transfers and all the hassle that comes along with moving large numbers of players.

     

    It's a tremendously casual-friendly game when the zerg can carry you through content.  However, at some point after launch the player population will be much more scattered and others will have given it a shot and decided they aren't going to play regularly, and people are going to be leveling through this big world alone in a game that is not currently balanced for a non-skilled player to play it alone, particularly at early levels, or to have other players depend on their competence like in dungeon play.

     

    I know it's fashionable for everybody to call themselves "just an average player" when they want to prove a point, but if you've played a lot of MMOs and you're hanging out on forums discussing the merits of various games, you are very likely not at all average.  Even I'm tempted to call myself average, yet I've solod some 200 even-level TERA BAMs this month and countless WoW elites and dozens of TOR champions almost literally in my sleep at 4am in the morning.  That's nothing special, but it's not average either.  Without making any consideration for whether it's a good or bad thing, I think GW2 is hard.  People who are less skilled than myself, of which there are many, are going to find it sometimes signficantly harder.

     

    Challenge is good.  Today's games are usually not nearly challenging enough.  If I were playing the game by myself, I would be completely fine with it.  Eventually I'd learn to become a better player and do the things that right now are frustrating.

     

    But MMOs are not single-player games (hello Bioware).  Having a healthy, fun community that gets along (relatively speaking) and enjoys the game is IMO a very important aspect of an MMO that thrives in the long term.  And I want to be enjoying the game as much two years form now as I do now.  So as I said in that thread, I am willing to sacrifice some of the challenge for the sake of opening the game up to some more players.

     

    In other words, I don't like you guys and I'm hoping making the game a little more accessible to less-skilled players will bring in a better crowd.  /biggrin

     

     

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member

    I had already seen and responded to both but...

     

    Re: Difficulty. Look, this is the only way to say it. If you get hit more than once every several seconds in this game, you will die.You cannot stand still and trade hits. Melee combat is about CONSTANT movement. If you are standing still, you need to be using blind/stun/daze/block abilities to keep the enemy from hitting you as much as possible. Once you get that, combat becomes challenging rather than difficult. Just how I like it. There are some exceptions, as certain events and PS quests are overtuned. submit feedback and they DO get adjusted. I've seen it already. Flame Shaman, the one everyone loved to hate BWE1, was MUCH easier to deal with BWE 2. Almost boringly so.

     

    Re: Levelling speed.  I linked a huge post from a dev about this earlier, but it boils down to this. Don't stand in one place and repeat DEs. It's just a bad idea. Explore teh entire map. Just pick a direction and go. Do hearts as you see em, break off and do Des if you run into them. After completing a DE, WAIT. Many branch into further DEs even if you fail. If nothing happens after a minute or the DE repeats, move on. Buy gathering items and harvest everything you can. Send it to your collectibles tab to save space. Seek out and complete every skill challenge on a map. Do your PS uests when you match their level (yes I know how tough some are, but hopefully this will be tweaked). If you do all of this, and don't WORRY about levelling, you'll find you actually level quite quickly. There's also the options of moving to other race's areas as well as pvp. WvW gives pretty decent xp.

  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by terrant

    Re: Levelling speed.  I linked a huge post from a dev about this earlier, but it boils down to this. Don't stand in one place and repeat DEs. It's just a bad idea. Explore teh entire map. Just pick a direction and go. Do hearts as you see em, break off and do Des if you run into them. After completing a DE, WAIT. Many branch into further DEs even if you fail. If nothing happens after a minute or the DE repeats, move on. Buy gathering items and harvest everything you can. Send it to your collectibles tab to save space. Seek out and complete every skill challenge on a map. Do your PS uests when you match their level (yes I know how tough some are, but hopefully this will be tweaked). If you do all of this, and don't WORRY about levelling, you'll find you actually level quite quickly. There's also the options of moving to other race's areas as well as pvp. WvW gives pretty decent xp.

    Exactly there is no problem with leveling speed only with how players play. If they "tweaked" the experience gained to suit the needs of those who play with the "old mentality" then it will ruin the whole point of exploring and doing DEs in the first place since only filling hearts will be enough to level....

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon

    I hope they will NOT change it.

    I love GW2 to be challenging & slow leveling...

    You have tones of DEs...not just those marked with a heart....

    I hope they keep their vision & do not change it because of some QQ...

    people needs to "learn" to play GW2 as it is intended...some are just playing like it was "another wow"...

    and it doesn´t work that way....

    Kudos to Anet!

    image

     

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,912Member Uncommon

    Not a GW2 player, but a quick comment.

     

    Good job ArenaNet!  I've done betas in other games and the impression I got was they didn't really care if there was feedback, let alone actually ask for specifics.

     

    +1 in my opinion.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • seridanseridan ThessalonikiPosts: 1,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by XAPGames

    Good job ArenaNet!  I've done betas in other games and the impression I got was they didn't really care if there was feedback, let alone actually ask for specifics.

    They always make changes to the game depending on player Feedback, this is why Anet is different

    And this is why GW2 beta is actually a beta, not a demo

    Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  • impiroimpiro onbekendPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by terrant

    I had already seen and responded to both but...

     

    Re: Difficulty. Look, this is the only way to say it. If you get hit more than once every several seconds in this game, you will die.You cannot stand still and trade hits. Melee combat is about CONSTANT movement. If you are standing still, you need to be using blind/stun/daze/block abilities to keep the enemy from hitting you as much as possible. Once you get that, combat becomes challenging rather than difficult. Just how I like it. There are some exceptions, as certain events and PS quests are overtuned. submit feedback and they DO get adjusted. I've seen it already. Flame Shaman, the one everyone loved to hate BWE1, was MUCH easier to deal with BWE 2. Almost boringly so.

     

    Re: Levelling speed.  I linked a huge post from a dev about this earlier, but it boils down to this. Don't stand in one place and repeat DEs. It's just a bad idea. Explore teh entire map. Just pick a direction and go. Do hearts as you see em, break off and do Des if you run into them. After completing a DE, WAIT. Many branch into further DEs even if you fail. If nothing happens after a minute or the DE repeats, move on. Buy gathering items and harvest everything you can. Send it to your collectibles tab to save space. Seek out and complete every skill challenge on a map. Do your PS uests when you match their level (yes I know how tough some are, but hopefully this will be tweaked). If you do all of this, and don't WORRY about levelling, you'll find you actually level quite quickly. There's also the options of moving to other race's areas as well as pvp. WvW gives pretty decent xp.

    Oh comon, the shaman was rediculous in BWE. It is a problem with the DE scaling that the healthbars sometimes take more than half an hour to get down. In BWE1 it took us even longer than half an hour and I can tell you it was far from fun and engaging gameplay. It was just a zerg of people bashing one mob, creating a clusterfuck of abilities and the shaman walking around a bit from time to time. Sure people died, but it wasn't really all that difficult not to die. The thing is that there is limit on how DEs can scale in size and gameplay  mechanics (amount of spawns etc) and thats get compensated by enormous health bars.

    This has nothing to do with difficulty. it could have been 3 minutes with the potential of the mob to destroy the zerg and be a lot more fun and engaging

  • MuridanMuridan Visalia, CAPosts: 94Member

    Is anyone else LOVING the fact that this game seems not only to be designed to discourage blitzing through it's content to reach end game, but to punish you for trying? Because I am! 

    There is nothing more annoying to me than running into level capped characters 2 days into a 3 day pre-launch head start for a game. I want to ask those zerg if they even remember a single story line. It's the microwave MMORPG'ers that miss the point of the genre more than any other. and I for one am glad to have a game that gently suggests they take time to smell the roses. 

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by impiro

    Oh comon, the shaman was rediculous in BWE. It is a problem with the DE scaling that the healthbars sometimes take more than half an hour to get down. In BWE1 it took us even longer than half an hour and I can tell you it was far from fun and engaging gameplay. It was just a zerg of people bashing one mob, creating a clusterfuck of abilities and the shaman walking around a bit from time to time. Sure people died, but it wasn't really all that difficult not to die. The thing is that there is limit on how DEs can scale in size and gameplay  mechanics (amount of spawns etc) and thats get compensated by enormous health bars.

    This has nothing to do with difficulty. it could have been 3 minutes with the potential of the mob to destroy the zerg and be a lot more fun and engaging

    Really? Had around 40 people there when I did him in BWE2, took us about 10-15 minutes. And unlike SWE1, the ground was not littered with player corpses. I downed once, unlike the 6+ ful on deaths and 45 minute fight I had the first time.

  • impiroimpiro onbekendPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by impiro

    Oh comon, the shaman was rediculous in BWE. It is a problem with the DE scaling that the healthbars sometimes take more than half an hour to get down. In BWE1 it took us even longer than half an hour and I can tell you it was far from fun and engaging gameplay. It was just a zerg of people bashing one mob, creating a clusterfuck of abilities and the shaman walking around a bit from time to time. Sure people died, but it wasn't really all that difficult not to die. The thing is that there is limit on how DEs can scale in size and gameplay  mechanics (amount of spawns etc) and thats get compensated by enormous health bars.

    This has nothing to do with difficulty. it could have been 3 minutes with the potential of the mob to destroy the zerg and be a lot more fun and engaging

    Really? Had around 40 people there when I did him in BWE2, took us about 10-15 minutes. And unlike SWE1, the ground was not littered with player corpses. I downed once, unlike the 6+ ful on deaths and 45 minute fight I had the first time.

    talking about BWE1, sorry if it wasn't clear ;)

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by impiro
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by impiro

    Oh comon, the shaman was rediculous in BWE. It is a problem with the DE scaling that the healthbars sometimes take more than half an hour to get down. In BWE1 it took us even longer than half an hour and I can tell you it was far from fun and engaging gameplay. It was just a zerg of people bashing one mob, creating a clusterfuck of abilities and the shaman walking around a bit from time to time. Sure people died, but it wasn't really all that difficult not to die. The thing is that there is limit on how DEs can scale in size and gameplay  mechanics (amount of spawns etc) and thats get compensated by enormous health bars.

    This has nothing to do with difficulty. it could have been 3 minutes with the potential of the mob to destroy the zerg and be a lot more fun and engaging

    Really? Had around 40 people there when I did him in BWE2, took us about 10-15 minutes. And unlike SWE1, the ground was not littered with player corpses. I downed once, unlike the 6+ ful on deaths and 45 minute fight I had the first time.

    talking about BWE1, sorry if it wasn't clear ;)

    LOL Ah. Yeah try him again in BWE3 if you get a chance MUCH easier.  It seriously was almost boring. Admittedly I had smarter people with me this time, but he didn't do that stupid aoe fireball attack that 1-shots everyone...often. And we could see it coming a lot better.

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    I really hope they don't make the game easier. My warrior was mowing down mobs like there was no tomorrow. If anything make it more challenging.

    Yeah because warriors and ele both need to be toned down. You were mowing down mobs because your class as it stands now is OP. 

    I am fine with difficulty level but i wouldn't mind some tweaking in xp gain.

  • k-damagek-damage ParisPosts: 738Member
    Originally posted by observer
     

    Difficulty needs to be adjusted.  Granted, i only got to 19 on a warrior, but i was having trouble with melee in this game.  I wasn't playing as pro as i should have been, but i shouldn't have to as a beginner. 

    This is states of mind like this which has turned every single MMO in history to become dumbed down as f*ck.

    Before wanting the whole world to lower down to your lack of efforts to learn the game, start asking yourself if the problem doesn't come from you.

    Level 19 ? Warrior ? And you had problems, are you serious ? You're not a beginner at lvl 19, you're not even a beginner at lvl 10, considering you're supposed to have cleared the starting zones. So you see those inoffensive, neutral mobs outside your first town ? Pick your ass and go learn the game on them. And if it has to take you hours of bashing, it will take you hours of bashing. Thank you.

    I played the most fragile class of the game up to lvl 20 (Thief), did die a lot at first levels, but then I started to want to learn mechanics. And * oh magic ! *, I didn't die more than once an hour ! 

    The funny part was when I saw those groups of 3 players stuck in front of a pack of mobs, afraid to engage because they didn't want to die, while I just ran solo into the pack and slained everyone. This is beyond me how lazy some gamers are. It's like they're just not interested in the game enough to learn it, from the start ...

    Stop wanting the whole world to be dumbed down to match your lack of efforts, please, people.

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • impiroimpiro onbekendPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by impiro

     

    talking about BWE1, sorry if it wasn't clear ;)

    LOL Ah. Yeah try him again in BWE3 if you get a chance MUCH easier.  It seriously was almost boring. Admittedly I had smarter people with me this time, but he didn't do that stupid aoe fireball attack that 1-shots everyone...often. And we could see it coming a lot better.

    They should not have made the shaman less difficult. They just should have made this healthbar much lower. Maybe even increase damage to compensate.
    Ofc, its still beta

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    I really hope they don't make the game easier. My warrior was mowing down mobs like there was no tomorrow. If anything make it more challenging.

    Yeah because warriors and ele both need to be toned down. You were mowing down mobs because your class as it stands down is OP. 

    I am fine with difficulty level but i wouldn't mind some tweaking in xp gain.

    Funny thing...you know how many people complain that warrior is nearly impossible? Lots.

     

    I think it depends a lot on your grasp of the game's mechanics. I will agree warrior is VERY strong (f1 skills are ridiculously powerful), but only if you get it. Heck people complain melee in general is weak, but I played quite a bit of thief and Mesmer in BWE and had no problems at all.

  • ODrifterODrifter oildale, CAPosts: 18Member

    i was on my lvl 10 necro doing lvl 16 personal stories, personal stories should be a lil tougher imo

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Sameer1979
    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    I really hope they don't make the game easier. My warrior was mowing down mobs like there was no tomorrow. If anything make it more challenging.

    Yeah because warriors and ele both need to be toned down. You were mowing down mobs because your class as it stands down is OP. 

    I am fine with difficulty level but i wouldn't mind some tweaking in xp gain.

    Funny thing...you know how many people complain that warrior is nearly impossible? Lots.

     

    I think it depends a lot on your grasp of the game's mechanics. I will agree warrior is VERY strong (f1 skills are ridiculously powerful), but only if you get it. Heck people complain melee in general is weak, but I played quite a bit of thief and Mesmer in BWE and had no problems at all.

    My main is warrior and yes it needs toning down. And i am sure i was not the only who suggested this on official forums. it is not matter of getting 'it' because there is nothing challenging about Warrior mechanics but the skills provided to warriors which are very powerful especially in PVP.

    Melee in general is weak because of lack of proper defense mechanics and minimal healing which gives ranged advantage and usually burns melee down even before they get closer. On my warrior i avoided ELE as often as i can.

  • RequiamerRequiamer ???Posts: 2,034Member


    Originally posted by fenistil     Difficulty was NERFED already in BWE2.  

    Ye i had that feeling too, but in the 15 to 30 areas i played the difficulty seam right on though.

    Leveling speed is ok to me, as i said in the official forum, there is no point to have super quick leveling speed since you are boosted to 80 in pvp anyway (and usually you want super quick level to access "end game pvp" in most mmo), so a quick progression in pve make no sense to me. Going to lv 30 with few other toons around 10 in like 6 days, is not slow at all, even if i did played a lot. Although during the first event i did recall me thinking the first few level were kind of slow but then i remembered they have a "flat" curve and understood it, but some might not be aware of it. But it really was just the first3 level that are usually ridiculously fast in most mmo (you kill your first mob you are lv 2, and so on until lv3). People probably make a big deal because its their first week end event and they are still under lv10.

  • k-damagek-damage ParisPosts: 738Member

    [edited : misundersanding]

    ***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  • Sameer1979Sameer1979 ParisPosts: 362Member
    Originally posted by k-damage

    Sameer, before saying "the overall stuff needs to be toned down because I had a hard time", did you even care to search for youtube videos of successful warriors who didn't have any problem at all ? Or did you just kept it to your experience only ?

    Ehh? did you read where i said i played Warrior and felt OP? the only class i have difficulty takign down is ELE. I wreck everything else easily in PVE and PVP. I believe they should be toned down not because i suck at it because i felt too over powered.

    The only time i felt utterly useless was during seiges.

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