MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.
People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.
People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.
It doesnt matter if its a good or bad reason because its not going to be there either way. Holding off on housing because they knew players would want it a certain way but to them wasnt a feasible idea is fine.
Player housing does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMOs. Just a waste of money, time and resources.
PvP does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMO's. Just because you don't care for it, doesn't mean others don't. For me Everquest 2 housing IS the best aspect of the game.
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.
People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.
People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.
It doesnt matter if its a good or bad reason because its not going to be there either way. Holding off on housing because they knew players would want it a certain way but to them wasnt a feasible idea is fine.
you dont understand.
They didnt say 'we are not doing housing and we might do it later'
they said
'housing is not possible as players want it'
so review.
1. they arent holding off they are not doing it, peroid.
2. they think its not possible.
3. they think they know what you and everyone else wants.
now I know a game is not a house or surgery but would you want someone that stupid to perform ANY service for you? of course not.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
MMO's are so big and expensive that fluff like player housing generally doesn't make the cut on release.
people cant seem to wrap this around their brain..iv said this before..but yet this game is now a complete failure now because in their mind it wont / never have player houseing ..or wont be like TES that they play on xbox / consoles
in this day and age everyone complains about clone this clone that ..but being diff is now a huge bad thing
player houseing is fluff that is added in 90% of mmorpgs nowa days along the way...once they have a finished product..they add fluff if people are playing and if they have a player base ...everyone runing around here saying this / that game had houseing at release...more than likely they didnt play on release cuz they wouldnt be making carzy claims that they had it...with a very select few on release and much much more that was added as fluff..cuz thats what it is
p.s - just cuz they are makeing a diff type of mmo than what the single player is dont mean that they are gonna change or kill beths. franchise..they are still gonna make the console sandboxes
am i dissapointed it isnt like TES like on the console... yes
am i runing around like an red headed angry german bashing his keyboard with his arms flailing about because its diff...no
people are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing. That is a misunderstanding. let me say again to be clear.
People are NOT complaining that there will not be player housing.
People are complaining because of the REASON we were told. The reason is pure utter complete and factual bullsh*t.
yes..some people in this thread are complaining that if it doesnt have player houseing ..its a wash / fail and they are not going to even pickup the title..and just because some twit came from their dev. team and said they wernt gonna have this nor that..does not mean they can change thier mind..nothing is written in stone..if the title picks up subs / fans ..they will add fluff..its what 90% of mmorpgs do
yes..some people in this thread are complaining that if it doesnt have player houseing ..its a wash / fail and they are not going to even pickup the title..and just because some twit came from their dev. team and said they wernt gonna have this nor that..does not mean they can change thier mind..nothing is written in stone..if the title picks up subs / fans ..they will add fluff..its what 90% of mmorpgs do
let me put it another way. How is it that you and I know more about what is possible and what could happen in the future than the staff at Zenimax?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.
I haven't said it isn't possible.
I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.
I haven't said it isn't possible.
I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.
you are suggesting, in short, that AV had more resources aviable to do this then Zenimax does. Sorry I have to be so explict I thought my point was understood.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Because their whole focus is wrong and instead of developing an amazing PvE social world they are sticking PvP in.
Yeah, because people who would be designing player housing would be the same ones developing balance mechanics for pvp......
Obviously developers have a limited budget and resources when building games, and obviously that means they have to choose where to focus them.
I at no point said that PvP players cannot be social (though I think they are FAR less likely to be, with most in my experience tending to show overly aggressive and sociopathic tendencies that get in the way of meaningful community building... it's hard to get past all that BS and stupid posturing).
To simplify it for you, because I think we need to do that, If they choose to hire a PvP team that means they might not have the money to hire a Housing team so... you get it right?
There is not 'plenty of room' to do both if your development budget dosen't allow for it. and you want to get one right and not do half a job on both.
My point was that they should have chosen to put that money into social PvE mechanics like housing instead of PvP. I feel their focus for this specific game is wrong when considering the wider intended audience (ie all the newly converted PvE Skyrim players that the recent hype has bought them). I think they are making a mistake going in to a saturated PvP market, and I think Archage is going to humilate them with their choice.
(Maybe understand the point being made before getting sarcastic and insulting about it? Looks less foolish that way. Though you do in a way a little bit prove what I say about typical PvPers though)
1. Darkfall has PvP, non-instanced housing, great FPS combat and great graphics for when it came out and they did it on a shoe string budget. I cant express how frustrating it can be to read EXACT descriptions of darkfall and then have people say its not possible.
I haven't said it isn't possible.
I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.
you are suggesting, in short, that AV had more resources aviable to do this then Zenimax does. Sorry I have to be so explict I thought my point was understood.
Don't put words in to my mouth.
No, I am not saying that.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.
There is very little wrong with Darkfall game itself. All of it is nothing more than balancing and a sociopathic community that knows only how to complain.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.
I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.
As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.
I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.
As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.
So at least now we are on the same page.
you think (although do not have numbers) that Zenimax doesnt have the resources to do this and you have agreed that this is what you have said.
Although I do not have the numbers either, like you dont have the numbers either, I am suggesting the AV has done this and they are a very low budget firm.
are we now clear?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
plain n simple ..fluff n stuff wont come untill they make money or have a player base ...if they dont ..then theres no fluff
as I have pointed out the main issue is not having player housing the issue is the reason they gave.
Its very clear from posts here as well as my personal experience that most gamers, even new ones, have more experience on what is possible in a game then the staff at zenimax regardless of if they decide to do it or not they claim its not possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.
I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.
As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.
So at least now we are on the same page.
you think (although do not have numbers) that Zenimax doesnt have the resources to do this and you have agreed that this is what you have said.
Although I do not have the numbers either, like you dont have the numbers either, I am suggesting the AV has done this and they are a very low budget firm.
are we now clear?
lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?
Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.
I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.
(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).
lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?
Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.
I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.
(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).
maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?
Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.
I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.
(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).
maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?
Forget it. I am bored of re-explaining.
*edit* Just to say I have stuck you on block now because it's obvious you can't let it go and I find your general tone antognistic and trollish. I know you 'won't care', and that's fine. Just saying it to save you maybe the bother of replying any more.
lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?
Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.
I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.
(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).
maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?
Forget it. I am bored of re-explaining.
unless I quoted the wrong person then you know what I am saying its really not that hard to follow.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I would like to see player housing in the game for several reasons.
1. Creates a long term goal that is something other than a themepark gear grind, or factional rep grind
2. Feels like a real breathing MMO with player housing
3. Adds a different aspect of gameplay and economy by having player housing, castles and sieging
In MMOs its important to have different aspects to entertain players, and since this game is going with a pvp aspect of the game then they should have features which add to the expereince to make it feel whole. It seems the devs for ESO wont even plan to make it an inclusion for the future which is a shame, since not having player housing removes an important aspect to creating that depth of MMOs to feel like a simulated reality.
There are different methods to introduce player housing so that it can please as many people as possible while still offering a lot of features.
1. Offer limited real estate that gives housing to personal homes or castles
2. Have instanced areas which also offer player housing for storage as well
3. Have the limited real estate housing offer benefits to people participating in the area defending the neighborhoods whether they have homes or not. Allow people to set up vendors which can be related to peoples participation
4. Have a system that does not fluctate limited real estate by how how rich players but fix this by making homes destructible through interesting features of guild cities and certain events as well relating to that. Also there could be an insurance system so the cost of the house is partially returned to the players to try to regain what they lost. The point of this system is that even with limited real estate, the houses are gained and lost which makes them lose some of thier value.
Therefore the focus should revolve around that and offering a system of economics and crafting that makes owning destructible castles/houses affordable but also offer certain rewards to try to regain them. Certain rewards can special resources, voting power, special items or mounts only active when owning the castle, special guild logo for house or castle, access to special content such hiding people missions, a prime location for pvp, a place for profit - can grow regants, hire vendors, trade goods of local area to foriegn trade networks and a guild city becomes a objective control for certain resources,
There can be trade networks in the game, and owning certain realestate in certain areas increases chances of safer and more sucessful transportation of goods.
Overall, the idea of destructible homes is the way to go and offer instanced homes as well. The objective of limited real estate is to stimulate a very harsh stimulated world but also be balanced with a chance to get a return on investment of time and money but also with pvp and pve bonuses. So limited real estate would be objectively to conquer as much as possible prime land, maximize profit and invest into other expensive rewards such as expensive instanced housing to store trophies.
Since houses are destructible and this is an MMO, then it could mean houses are very easily conquered but not necessarily.
Since they are in guild cities or contested area cities aligned to factions, and anyone in the guild/faction city can hire and upgrade the defenses of thier city. The more they invest the more get returned from catpuring players lost loot. Also guild cities can be timed events, and would make people to meet at certain times to fight to conquer or defend.
edit: Also in the idea there are trade networks and from that idea adds a different aspect to the game of raiding other peoples goods, and people trying to defend them as well.
A person can take the risk to transport goods for maximum profit and go with his caravan or sell it to someone in the city for less profit and they take the risk. Of course this means the only to move goods is through caravans and not through players. Or exploiting a mail system as well. I think its important to have something like this to create a constant need to be active in the game, and people can choose when to send out the caravan as well.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
This game looks worse every day. And the genre continues to devolve despite us not even buying these pos single player mmorpgs. Lets look at it like this, the last what, 5 wow clones burned, yet they keep pushing them out.
Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!
Because people will buy it
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!
Because people will buy it
Click is pretty good =/.
To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).
Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!
Because people will buy it
Click is pretty good =/.
To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).
I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.
What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.
Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.
That is my view anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD Originally posted by stealthbrOriginally posted by PyrateLVIts like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!Because people will buy it
Click is pretty good =/.To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.
What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.
Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.
That is my view anyway.
You're nitpicking the quote. Obviously they could add housing. They could add open world housing and they could let players stick houses wherever they wanted to. There is no technological reason they can't do it. What they can't do is have the housing players want, within the constraints of the game they have built. It wouldn't introduce insurmountable technical issues, it would introduce social issues. Either the housing would not be what people want, or it would impact other aspects of game play in a negative manner.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.
The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.
Originally posted by karmath Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.
This game may not be a a 'true' Elder Scrolls game, but it's not a WoW clone either. Design conflicts with Elder Scrolls aside, it could be a very well done game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
It doesnt matter if its a good or bad reason because its not going to be there either way. Holding off on housing because they knew players would want it a certain way but to them wasnt a feasible idea is fine.
PvP does nothing for a better gaming experience in MMO's. Just because you don't care for it, doesn't mean others don't. For me Everquest 2 housing IS the best aspect of the game.
My Guild Wars 2 First Beta Weekend "reviewette" : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4944570/thread/349125#4944570
you dont understand.
They didnt say 'we are not doing housing and we might do it later'
they said
'housing is not possible as players want it'
so review.
1. they arent holding off they are not doing it, peroid.
2. they think its not possible.
3. they think they know what you and everyone else wants.
now I know a game is not a house or surgery but would you want someone that stupid to perform ANY service for you? of course not.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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yes..some people in this thread are complaining that if it doesnt have player houseing ..its a wash / fail and they are not going to even pickup the title..and just because some twit came from their dev. team and said they wernt gonna have this nor that..does not mean they can change thier mind..nothing is written in stone..if the title picks up subs / fans ..they will add fluff..its what 90% of mmorpgs do
let me put it another way. How is it that you and I know more about what is possible and what could happen in the future than the staff at Zenimax?
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I haven't said it isn't possible.
I remember DF at launch. I actually think a little more focus would have done them the world of good.
you are suggesting, in short, that AV had more resources aviable to do this then Zenimax does. Sorry I have to be so explict I thought my point was understood.
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Don't put words in to my mouth.
No, I am not saying that.
I am saying that, in regards to your point, DF suffered for it's lack of focus. Maybe if they focused they objectives according to their budget they might have delivered a better game out of the gate.
That's all I have to say about Darkfall, mainly because it's not a great example of a game at launch to be waving about to illustrate that 'you can have it all'.
Just because someone dosen't give you the answer you want does not mean they didn't understand the question.
Look, the bottom line is that I think this game has got it all wrong in going for the PvP market. I think it's aiming for a saturated area and on top of that it's going to suffer from being completely out of fashion when it hits. I think, personally, that it's in trouble. Maybe read the quote boxes above to understand fully what I am saying.
look you nearly explictly said that zenimax doesnt realistically have the resources to do all that and I am saying that ALL of it was done by AV which I would assume has much less resources than zenimax does.
There is very little wrong with Darkfall game itself. All of it is nothing more than balancing and a sociopathic community that knows only how to complain.
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I have answered this already, and really me doing so again is just gonna put us into a circle. What I have said stands, take it or leave it really. No offense.
As an aside though, have you numbers on Zenimax's dev budget? I haven't seen any yet... I would be interested.
So at least now we are on the same page.
you think (although do not have numbers) that Zenimax doesnt have the resources to do this and you have agreed that this is what you have said.
Although I do not have the numbers either, like you dont have the numbers either, I am suggesting the AV has done this and they are a very low budget firm.
are we now clear?
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plain n simple ..fluff n stuff wont come untill they make money or have a player base ...if they dont ..then theres no fluff
as I have pointed out the main issue is not having player housing the issue is the reason they gave.
Its very clear from posts here as well as my personal experience that most gamers, even new ones, have more experience on what is possible in a game then the staff at zenimax regardless of if they decide to do it or not they claim its not possible
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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lol you really DO enjoy putting words in to other people's mouths so they seem to be saying what you want them to say don't you?
Look, what I have said is up there, I have nothing more to add and repeating myself in order to keep clarifying and correcting your jaundiced paraphrasing gets boring. Take it or leave it, but please don't keep rephrasing what I have said in order to suit your point.
I have no idea of the Zenimax budget and I was making no point. I was asking a clear and honest question because I was genuinlly interested.
(also, In a little way I was trying to move our conversation out of this hostile area and in to more of a conversational area, but nm.).
maybe I read someone else then. You are saying you did not say that many of the things people want to do would take up a lot of resources and maybe that is why they are not doing them?
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Forget it. I am bored of re-explaining.
*edit* Just to say I have stuck you on block now because it's obvious you can't let it go and I find your general tone antognistic and trollish. I know you 'won't care', and that's fine. Just saying it to save you maybe the bother of replying any more.
unless I quoted the wrong person then you know what I am saying its really not that hard to follow.
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I would like to see player housing in the game for several reasons.
1. Creates a long term goal that is something other than a themepark gear grind, or factional rep grind
2. Feels like a real breathing MMO with player housing
3. Adds a different aspect of gameplay and economy by having player housing, castles and sieging
In MMOs its important to have different aspects to entertain players, and since this game is going with a pvp aspect of the game then they should have features which add to the expereince to make it feel whole. It seems the devs for ESO wont even plan to make it an inclusion for the future which is a shame, since not having player housing removes an important aspect to creating that depth of MMOs to feel like a simulated reality.
There are different methods to introduce player housing so that it can please as many people as possible while still offering a lot of features.
1. Offer limited real estate that gives housing to personal homes or castles
2. Have instanced areas which also offer player housing for storage as well
3. Have the limited real estate housing offer benefits to people participating in the area defending the neighborhoods whether they have homes or not. Allow people to set up vendors which can be related to peoples participation
4. Have a system that does not fluctate limited real estate by how how rich players but fix this by making homes destructible through interesting features of guild cities and certain events as well relating to that. Also there could be an insurance system so the cost of the house is partially returned to the players to try to regain what they lost. The point of this system is that even with limited real estate, the houses are gained and lost which makes them lose some of thier value.
Therefore the focus should revolve around that and offering a system of economics and crafting that makes owning destructible castles/houses affordable but also offer certain rewards to try to regain them. Certain rewards can special resources, voting power, special items or mounts only active when owning the castle, special guild logo for house or castle, access to special content such hiding people missions, a prime location for pvp, a place for profit - can grow regants, hire vendors, trade goods of local area to foriegn trade networks and a guild city becomes a objective control for certain resources,
There can be trade networks in the game, and owning certain realestate in certain areas increases chances of safer and more sucessful transportation of goods.
Overall, the idea of destructible homes is the way to go and offer instanced homes as well. The objective of limited real estate is to stimulate a very harsh stimulated world but also be balanced with a chance to get a return on investment of time and money but also with pvp and pve bonuses. So limited real estate would be objectively to conquer as much as possible prime land, maximize profit and invest into other expensive rewards such as expensive instanced housing to store trophies.
Since houses are destructible and this is an MMO, then it could mean houses are very easily conquered but not necessarily.
Since they are in guild cities or contested area cities aligned to factions, and anyone in the guild/faction city can hire and upgrade the defenses of thier city. The more they invest the more get returned from catpuring players lost loot. Also guild cities can be timed events, and would make people to meet at certain times to fight to conquer or defend.
edit: Also in the idea there are trade networks and from that idea adds a different aspect to the game of raiding other peoples goods, and people trying to defend them as well.
A person can take the risk to transport goods for maximum profit and go with his caravan or sell it to someone in the city for less profit and they take the risk. Of course this means the only to move goods is through caravans and not through players. Or exploiting a mail system as well. I think its important to have something like this to create a constant need to be active in the game, and people can choose when to send out the caravan as well.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
NM already answered in this thread
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Its like Adam Sandler movies. Each one more horrible than the last, yet he keeps on making them. WHY?!
Because people will buy it
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Click is pretty good =/.
To the OP, either you designate locations for housing at the very beginning of world design or you run into conflicts later on as you try to shuffle things around to create such areas. Considering the game has been in development for about 5 years, I have to say that most of their world design is probably done, so open-world housing is more than likely never making it in (at least according to the information provided by the article). I could very easily see the game having instanced housing, maybe not at launch, but implemented farther down the road, and frankly there's nothing wrong with that since past Elder Scrolls games did not provide you with the freedom to customize house placement, orientation, etc. (at least not that I know of).
I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.
What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.
Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.
That is my view anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think people need to be wary of making up better excuses for Zenimax then they are able to do for themselves.
What I mean is the statement they made of 'cant do player housing like players want' is a far cry from 'we might do it later'.
Regardless of if its likely they or not for them to do in the future players should hold them accountable for what they just said, not for something that might happen down the line.
That is my view anyway.
You're nitpicking the quote. Obviously they could add housing. They could add open world housing and they could let players stick houses wherever they wanted to. There is no technological reason they can't do it. What they can't do is have the housing players want, within the constraints of the game they have built. It wouldn't introduce insurmountable technical issues, it would introduce social issues. Either the housing would not be what people want, or it would impact other aspects of game play in a negative manner.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Hopefully, the game wont sell many boxes. The backlash has been big and the taste of SWTOR is still lingering so there is a decent chance this game will be DOA.
The slew of WoW clones have sold a shitton of boxes, but if the next big clone doesnt even do that I dare say the cycle might break. If that happens I'll run down my street naked with nothing but a Cylon helmet on my head. Yes I will post pics too.
This game may not be a a 'true' Elder Scrolls game, but it's not a WoW clone either. Design conflicts with Elder Scrolls aside, it could be a very well done game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.