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Was shutting down SWG LA's biggest failure yet?

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by evilastro

    It wasn't LA's biggest failure because it was SoE's decision. They shut it down because they didnt want to renew the license. LA doesn't care as long as they get the money from the IP.

    It was Lucasarts. Smedley admitted it in an interview when he resurrected EQmac

    Lucasarts called the shots with SWG

     

    It was something that SOE could say "yes" to a couple of months after it had to say "no" to pleading Star Wars Galaxies fans. So why did EQMac get saved while SWG was not? It came down to licensing, and with LucasArts calling the shots with SWG, SOE didn't have the flexibility that it did with EQMac. SOE's reticent to shut anything down, Smedley said, although sometimes the higher-ups have to make the call to do so.

    Yeah, they didnt want to pay the license. So it got shut down. Mystery solved.

    They own the IP rights to EQ, so it cost them nothing to keep the EQMac server up. They had to pay LA and it wasnt worth the cost to them, so they shut SWG down.

    I don't know why you want to martyr LucasArts and claim that SoE are some sort of caring company. The whole SWG mess stinks of typical SoE crap. Have you seen what they did to Everquest 2? They turned that into a WoW clone as well. And they only care about the bottom dollar, not the customer. So yeah, it was obviously SoE that decided to pull the plug when they refused to pay the bills.


    I'm not exactly a fan of SOE any more after this PSS1 nonsense, and taking away All Access from EU customers, with no alternative, yet US players can still get it.

    However Lucasrts were the ones behind SWG being shut down, and is made clear as day in there, and straight from the horses mouth. It is not opinions, it is FACT. It never said anything about not wanting to pay the licence at all, and is no where fact. If SOE were calling the shots, then they would have paid the licence

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    To answer the OP's question.. No!  In the long line of mistakes that LA has made with it's IP closing a niche game with only a few thousand people playing  is not what I would call their biggest failure. Hell it's not even close.

    SWG was one of LA's biggest failure. I'm sure LA wasn't at all sad to distance themselves from that bad memory. One mistake after another. One failure after another for years and years...and the lies. Oh my the lies. 

     

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by evilastro

    It wasn't LA's biggest failure because it was SoE's decision. They shut it down because they didnt want to renew the license. LA doesn't care as long as they get the money from the IP.

    It was Lucasarts. Smedley admitted it in an interview when he resurrected EQmac

    Lucasarts called the shots with SWG

     

    It was something that SOE could say "yes" to a couple of months after it had to say "no" to pleading Star Wars Galaxies fans. So why did EQMac get saved while SWG was not? It came down to licensing, and with LucasArts calling the shots with SWG, SOE didn't have the flexibility that it did with EQMac. SOE's reticent to shut anything down, Smedley said, although sometimes the higher-ups have to make the call to do so.

    Yeah, they didnt want to pay the license. So it got shut down. Mystery solved.

    They own the IP rights to EQ, so it cost them nothing to keep the EQMac server up. They had to pay LA and it wasnt worth the cost to them, so they shut SWG down.

    I don't know why you want to martyr LucasArts and claim that SoE are some sort of caring company. The whole SWG mess stinks of typical SoE crap. Have you seen what they did to Everquest 2? They turned that into a WoW clone as well. And they only care about the bottom dollar, not the customer. So yeah, it was obviously SoE that decided to pull the plug when they refused to pay the bills.


    I'm not exactly a fan of SOE any more after this PSS1 nonsense, and taking away All Access from EU customers, with no alternative, yet US players can still get it.

    However Lucasrts were the ones behind SWG being shut down, and is made clear as day in there, and straight from the horses mouth. It is not opinions, it is FACT. It never said anything about not wanting to pay the licence at all, and is no where fact. If SOE were calling the shots, then they would have paid the licence

     

    Smedley is a certified liar, of course he is trying to pass the buck to LA. You can take what he says with a grain of salt. Look at all the false promises he made about his other games.

    You seem to be rather selective to what he says and chooses what is a lie and what is the truth, but in both cases, you twist what he says.

    Smedley saying that he had no control over SWGs closure was quite clear, and to disbute the best information for fact we are going to get is just a waste of time.

    With the fact that they gave 6 months notiuce, that is not SOEs style, and him saying that secures the fact thet LA was responsble for SWGs shutdown. ACtions speak louder than words. We already thought it was LA before he said that, him saying that just confirms

    In that thread I created, it got locked because it got heated as we could not agree whether SOE or LA were responsible for the CU and / or NGE, but one thing we ALL agreed on is that LA were responsible for SWGs shutdown.

    I am not going back and forth on this, you are clealy just posting to wind me up on this.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,074Member Common
    Originally posted by GreenHell

    To answer the OP's question.. No!  In the long line of mistakes that LA has made with it's IP closing a niche game with only a few thousand people playing  is not what I would call their biggest failure. Hell it's not even close.SWG was one of LA's biggest failure. I'm sure LA wasn't at all sad to distance themselves from that bad memory. One mistake after another. One failure after another for years and years...and the lies. Oh my the lies.  

     

    The feeling I got from it was both parties were eager to put this mess behind them. With SOE saying that it was time to put SWG to an end and for their desire to concentrate on their own IPs tells me that they were not interested in continuing that relationship any longer.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by GreenHell

    To answer the OP's question.. No!  In the long line of mistakes that LA has made with it's IP closing a niche game with only a few thousand people playing  is not what I would call their biggest failure. Hell it's not even close.

    SWG was one of LA's biggest failure. I'm sure LA wasn't at all sad to distance themselves from that bad memory. One mistake after another. One failure after another for years and years...and the lies. Oh my the lies. 

     

     

    The feeling I got from it was both parties were eager to put this mess behind them. With SOE saying that it was time to put SWG to an end and for their desire to concentrate on their own IPs tells me that they were not interested in continuing that relationship any longer.

    Yep. Pretty much everything they did since the Combat Update was the failure. Shutting down SWG was the success story of the year for LA.

  • JYCowboyJYCowboy Northlake, TXPosts: 660Member

    Well this has been an intersting discussion.  Some straight talk, some opinion, some ol' SOE hate with a little LA suspicion.  I have only seen one person mention the #1 reaons SWG was closed.

    EA required in the contract with TOR a no competition clause.  Lucas Arts Producers for SWG had every intention to let the game run side by side with TOR.  That ended once EA came into the picture.  Remember, Bioware was independent until EA bought them just after rumor was confirmed that LA had contracted a Star Wars MMO.  With the purchase, new contracts were drawn.  Thats when SWG became fated.  SOE never closed games even with its shaky history with LA.  As long as the game was bringing in a sub it was paying for its self.  It is very true SWG had a very bad rep that LA couldn't make go away. So they just quit trying.  However, new players ever so often did trip over the existance of Galaxies and plugged in.  As I had stated before, SWG NGE evolved into a playable game from the mess it started as.  A new player who had no idea of the history would be amazed at the wonders the game had.  I say that with full knowledge of my own history with SWG.  I was there the day the servers accepted players the first time and the day the servers went off-line the last time with no time off in between.

    As a side note, Atmospheric Flight would never had been introduced into the game if the game wasn't shutting down.  It proved, however, that it could work and not unbalance PVP or combat in general.  Thats why it was never considered before.

    So if you want to say SOE killed SWG because they didn't want to renew the license, that true.  If you want to say LA wanted to shut down the game because of its bad rep, that's sorta true also.  You can also say EA closed SWG by forcing LA's hand from the investment already established with TOR.  In other words, you can hate all the right entities that you been hating on anyway.  SWG got you covered.

    Want to know LA's biggest mistake?  Using thier Marketing Research gathered on SWG to guide them in making TOR.  Thats how you get NGEs X2. ;)

     

  • ezduzitezduzit oxnard, CAPosts: 112Member
    Originally posted by JYCowboy

    Well this has been an intersting discussion.  Some straight talk, some opinion, some ol' SOE hate with a little LA suspicion.  I have only seen one person mention the #1 reaons SWG was closed.

    EA required in the contract with TOR a no competition clause.  Lucas Arts Producers for SWG had every intention to let the game run side by side with TOR.  That ended once EA came into the picture.  Remember, Bioware was independent until EA bought them just after rumor was confirmed that LA had contracted a Star Wars MMO.  With the purchase, new contracts were drawn.  Thats when SWG became fated.  SOE never closed games even with its shaky history with LA.  As long as the game was bringing in a sub it was paying for its self.  It is very true SWG had a very bad rep that LA couldn't make go away. So they just quit trying.  However, new players ever so often did trip over the existance of Galaxies and plugged in.  As I had stated before, SWG NGE evolved into a playable game from the mess it started as.  A new player who had no idea of the history would be amazed at the wonders the game had.  I say that with full knowledge of my own history with SWG.  I was there the day the servers accepted players the first time and the day the servers went off-line the last time with no time off in between.

    As a side note, Atmospheric Flight would never had been introduced into the game if the game wasn't shutting down.  It proved, however, that it could work and not unbalance PVP or combat in general.  Thats why it was never considered before.

    So if you want to say SOE killed SWG because they didn't want to renew the license, that true.  If you want to say LA wanted to shut down the game because of its bad rep, that's sorta true also.  You can also say EA closed SWG by forcing LA's hand from the investment already established with TOR.  In other words, you can hate all the right entities that you been hating on anyway.  SWG got you covered.

    Want to know LA's biggest mistake?  Using thier Marketing Research gathered on SWG to guide them in making TOR.  Thats how you get NGEs X2. ;)

     

     

    Not entirely correct. But nothing that we haven't heard. 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,933Member Uncommon

    Releasing SWG without space combat or telling people how they would become jedis was a BIG mistake.  It kept me from playing the game.

     

    SWG has been dead for years.  Closing it wasn't a mistake.  SOE couldn't figure out how to make an appealling SW MMO.

  • troublmakertroublmaker St. George''s, NFPosts: 337Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    We all knew it was going to happen it was only a question of when. And I still haven't played an SOE game to this day and I likely never will.

    No one knew that SWG was going to get shut down, not even SOE.

    It certainly should not have gotten shut down last year, as no matter how low the population got it was still better than other active MMOs.

    The game had 13 servers, most other MMOs only have about 5 or 6 servers or less. DCUO only has 4 servers total, and in June 2011 SWG had 4 FULL servers, with the rest medium/Light, and DCUO was still P2P, and none were FULL. Vanguard has only 2 servers, and even on the free 45 days both servers stayed at rock bottom. SOE were in discussion of dropping servers down again, and be no less than 4 by 2012, as stated here.

    The next course of action would have been to take the game F2P. If after that it did not do well still then it would have been known it would get shut down.

    SWG got shut down before its time, and all because LA did not want it to go F2P

    That's a lie.  Everyone knew SWG was getting shut down as soon as SWTOR came out.  People knew that Lucas gave SOE a 10-year license and that it was up around the same time as the launch of SWTOR.  No one was announcing it was shutting down until last minute but everyone knew.  SOE stopped supporting the game in what, 2008?  The only reason SWG might have had fulls servers is because people were logging on the last days of theg ame to see what it was like or say their good byes to it.

    Your summary of DCUO is incorrect and is largely based on a misconception of how servers work.  DCUO in 2011 created a system called the "super server."  Instead of having 90 servers to choose from everyone would be playing on a single server.  The single server is actually 80-90 servers simultaneously.  So when you have a DCUO heavy server that is the same thing as having 80-90 heavy servers in any other game.

    SWG's time had gone and past.  The developers were not really all that interested in making new content for the game.

    This happens every time a game shuts down it's servers.  People come out and talk about how amazing the game was.  I remember HELLGATE LONDON was like this.  Everyone was like OMG THAT GAME WAS AWESOME SHAME IT CLOSED.  And now it's back open in a free to play format as Hellgate Global.  The game is doing so poorly that they have not added any content to the game since the re-launch.

    Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube:

  • JYCowboyJYCowboy Northlake, TXPosts: 660Member
    Originally posted by ezduzit
    Originally posted by JYCowboy

    Well this has been an intersting discussion.  Some straight talk, some opinion, some ol' SOE hate with a little LA suspicion.  I have only seen one person mention the #1 reaons SWG was closed.

    EA required in the contract with TOR a no competition clause.  Lucas Arts Producers for SWG had every intention to let the game run side by side with TOR.  That ended once EA came into the picture.  Remember, Bioware was independent until EA bought them just after rumor was confirmed that LA had contracted a Star Wars MMO.  With the purchase, new contracts were drawn.  Thats when SWG became fated.  SOE never closed games even with its shaky history with LA.  As long as the game was bringing in a sub it was paying for its self.  It is very true SWG had a very bad rep that LA couldn't make go away. So they just quit trying.  However, new players ever so often did trip over the existance of Galaxies and plugged in.  As I had stated before, SWG NGE evolved into a playable game from the mess it started as.  A new player who had no idea of the history would be amazed at the wonders the game had.  I say that with full knowledge of my own history with SWG.  I was there the day the servers accepted players the first time and the day the servers went off-line the last time with no time off in between.

    As a side note, Atmospheric Flight would never had been introduced into the game if the game wasn't shutting down.  It proved, however, that it could work and not unbalance PVP or combat in general.  Thats why it was never considered before.

    So if you want to say SOE killed SWG because they didn't want to renew the license, that true.  If you want to say LA wanted to shut down the game because of its bad rep, that's sorta true also.  You can also say EA closed SWG by forcing LA's hand from the investment already established with TOR.  In other words, you can hate all the right entities that you been hating on anyway.  SWG got you covered.

    Want to know LA's biggest mistake?  Using thier Marketing Research gathered on SWG to guide them in making TOR.  Thats how you get NGEs X2. ;)

     

     

    Not entirely correct. But nothing that we haven't heard. 

    OK, then correct me.  I wish to know how stalwart one or more of these entities is in the SWG debacle.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by troublmaker
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    We all knew it was going to happen it was only a question of when. And I still haven't played an SOE game to this day and I likely never will.

    No one knew that SWG was going to get shut down, not even SOE.

    It certainly should not have gotten shut down last year, as no matter how low the population got it was still better than other active MMOs.

    The game had 13 servers, most other MMOs only have about 5 or 6 servers or less. DCUO only has 4 servers total, and in June 2011 SWG had 4 FULL servers, with the rest medium/Light, and DCUO was still P2P, and none were FULL. Vanguard has only 2 servers, and even on the free 45 days both servers stayed at rock bottom. SOE were in discussion of dropping servers down again, and be no less than 4 by 2012, as stated here.

    The next course of action would have been to take the game F2P. If after that it did not do well still then it would have been known it would get shut down.

    SWG got shut down before its time, and all because LA did not want it to go F2P

    That's a lie.  Everyone knew SWG was getting shut down as soon as SWTOR came out.  People knew that Lucas gave SOE a 10-year license and that it was up around the same time as the launch of SWTOR.  No one was announcing it was shutting down until last minute but everyone knew.  SOE stopped supporting the game in what, 2008?  The only reason SWG might have had fulls servers is because people were logging on the last days of theg ame to see what it was like or say their good byes to it.

    Your summary of DCUO is incorrect and is largely based on a misconception of how servers work.  DCUO in 2011 created a system called the "super server."  Instead of having 90 servers to choose from everyone would be playing on a single server.  The single server is actually 80-90 servers simultaneously.  So when you have a DCUO heavy server that is the same thing as having 80-90 heavy servers in any other game.

    SWG's time had gone and past.  The developers were not really all that interested in making new content for the game.

    This happens every time a game shuts down it's servers.  People come out and talk about how amazing the game was.  I remember HELLGATE LONDON was like this.  Everyone was like OMG THAT GAME WAS AWESOME SHAME IT CLOSED.  And now it's back open in a free to play format as Hellgate Global.  The game is doing so poorly that they have not added any content to the game since the re-launch.


    After June 24th 2011 everyone knew that SWG was closing, but not beforehand.  Both SOE and LA said that SWG and SWTOR would co-exist, but were unsure how long SWG would last once SWTOR was released.

    Also LA did not give SOE a 10 year licence it was 5 and they renewed several times as stated here

    Interestingly enough, Smedley said that SOE had already renegotiated to extend the license a few times. "Back in 2001, not '03 when we launched, but back in 2001 when we [first] negotiated it, a five year license seemed like a really long god damn time," Smedley said. "EverQuest was only a year or so old at that point. Could we have renegotiated? Maybe, but I don't think that would be the right thing for the company."

    When players petiioned to save SWG Linda "Brasse" Carlson responded and in it she said "No one is more disappointed than we are to cancel Star Wars Galaxies; however, we are confident that this was the only decision possible. This was not an easy decision to make; Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts spent months deliberating, and in the end we had to make the hard choice." and SOE have been said to have wanted it to go F2P, as one way to save SWG, but LA said "no". My final view on things, was that SOE did not want to keep it going on P2P, as they were turning their MMOs F2P, and did not fit in with their business model.

    Smedley and some higher ups may have known a bit longer than the rest of SOE, but all of SOE did not know much longer before we all did. SWG only got shut down because LA and SOE could not agree on a way to keep SWG active, if they did it would have stayed active.

    There was plenty content still coming in. Here is the March 2011 Producer Note, with Bounty Hunting in space and GCW 2 Space updates coming, which were put in after the breah in May. Before that we had the WItches of Dathomir content added. Also to come they were doing an update to Chronicles 2 but due to the closure it got cancelled, and they were in process of being able to clone your character to the test center, which was also aborted due to the closure.

    The servers were full before the shutdown announcement, the day after the announcement all servers were dead, and the servers were all dead in the final days when saying goodbye or whatever.

     

    As for DCUO the megaservers came in August 2011, so as I was on about June 2011, my comment still stands, which is actually incorrect, as it had more servers back in June. I thought I checked it out, but must have been after the "merge". My bad

     

    After the NGE I ended up quitting for a while to show my contempt to SOE about it, and played other MMOs, but no other MMO came close to what SWG had to offer, even in NGE form. I was saying how amazing the game was even when it was active.

  • GravezGravez Edison, NJPosts: 249Member

    "No one is more disappointed than we are to cancel Star Wars Galaxies; however, we are confident that this was the only decision possible. This was not an easy decision to make; Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts spent months deliberating, and in the end we had to make the hard choice."

    So if EA/Bioware had a contract stating that there could only be one Star Wars MMO, how could SOE have any decision to make and be deliberating with LA?

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gravez

    "No one is more disappointed than we are to cancel Star Wars Galaxies; however, we are confident that this was the only decision possible. This was not an easy decision to make; Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts spent months deliberating, and in the end we had to make the hard choice."

    So if EA/Bioware had a contract stating that there could only be one Star Wars MMO, how could SOE have any decision to make and be deliberating with LA?

    SOE got a windfall with that contract to end the licence early, and to fall in with SWTORs release in Dec?

    SOE lost loads of subs from announcing the closure 6 months early., so EA/Bioware paying SOE loads of money to buyout the rest of the licence, which would have compensated for all that, makes sense. Their decison could have been to accept the windfall or risk SWGs viability alongside SWTOR. If they were allowed to take it F2P they have may have kept it going, but if keeping it as P2P, they probably didn't fancy their chances.

    Disclaimer: Just a theorry and not fact!

  • BullseyeArc1BullseyeArc1 anchorage, AKPosts: 410Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Gravez

    "No one is more disappointed than we are to cancel Star Wars Galaxies; however, we are confident that this was the only decision possible. This was not an easy decision to make; Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts spent months deliberating, and in the end we had to make the hard choice."

    So if EA/Bioware had a contract stating that there could only be one Star Wars MMO, how could SOE have any decision to make and be deliberating with LA?

    SOE got a windfall with that contract to end the licence early, and to fall in with SWTORs release in Dec?

    SOE lost loads of subs from announcing the closure 6 months early., so EA/Bioware paying SOE loads of money to buyout the rest of the licence, which would have compensated for all that, makes sense. Their decison could have been to accept the windfall or risk SWGs viability alongside SWTOR. If they were allowed to take it F2P they have may have kept it going, but if keeping it as P2P, they probably didn't fancy their chances.

    Disclaimer: Just a theorry and not fact!

    The nice thing to do would have been giving us stand alone serves, Im sure I would have liked having a copy you could play with friends.     You would think they would rewarded the last players those where thier diehards.   

  • Oph8Oph8 whydoyouneedtoknow, CAPosts: 177Member

    SWG was nothing but a sink hole. If SOE would have kept their guns and stuck it out SWG would have been great. I left SWG for EQ2 then went to WoW for 6 years. During my stay in WoW my guild mates missed the Pre-CU SWG and we always had long chats about our TEF Wars and our guild war with Ronin. Those days were great. The NGE was a total let down. During that time WoW was eating subs like pac-man, I would have taken an SWG/WoW clone update rather than the NGE.

    I'd play it right now if the Pre-CU servers were up.

    "Everything is mine and your woman too"

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