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Is Immersion Over Rated?

mainvein33mainvein33 Atlanta, GAPosts: 406Member

Just as the title says no wall of text. With all the voice chat adds ons skipping dialogue etc etc. Is their really a point focusing on immersion?

Comments

  • Gabby-airGabby-air surrey, BCPosts: 3,440Member Uncommon

    There definitely are reasons to create an immersive world but not at the expense of gameplay. 

  • xDayxxDayx St Charles, MOPosts: 712Member

    I wouldnt call voice chat one of the more immersive things. I think the most immersive is first person view only.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member

    Immersion isn't overrated... it's subjective...

    So you can't take one person's word over another, making the entire conversation moot.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,265Member Uncommon

    Developers seem to think so. Game "worlds" are becoming more cardboard by the minute. No more day/night cycles. Stiff, tiny, lifeless zones to run through on rails. Looks at SWTOR, who literally use a flat picture of mountains painted on the sky to represent great distance...as if you can't tell they didn't render it graphically.

    Again, developers may think immersion is overrated, but to me, it's #2...right after gameplay.

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
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  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by Gabby-air

    There definitely are reasons to create an immersive world but not at the expense of gameplay. 

    Totally agree.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,425Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gabby-air

    There definitely are reasons to create an immersive world but not at the expense of gameplay. 

    The best immersion is through game play. I've always felt that how things are done is important to immersion, that feeling of being placed "there".

    For example,

    • interaction with the game world. Opening doors is the simplest example, while terrain deformation might be the most extreme example. I see even the simplest, opening/closing doors, as game play. Especially when it might affect more game play such as entering a dungeon room and facing an unknown, closing a door so that you aren't surprised or don't leave yourself open to being seen by patrolling MOBs. Then you have all the things in between. It can all add to game play, thus adding to immersion.
    • How you interact, the things you do on your comp. If you just get a pop-up list it's less immersive than "using" a tool on a resource to kick things off (of course lists are almost certainly going to be needed at points with choices). And using your cursor as if it's your hands, your senses, etc., to grab things, to look at items, etc. it all adds to immersion. And that's added game play.
    • "Realism" adds to immersion and game play. If you dismount your horse and it doesn't just disappear, you then have to protect your horse or lead it around. I see that as game play. I know some players don't want to bother with such things and would rather just get into the hack and slash, but it's still less immersion and less game play in the wider scope of things.
    • There's others, just about everywhere.

    Once upon a time....

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada BerlinPosts: 1,277Member Uncommon

    Immersion is a misunderstood term that also has different meanings to individuals.
    VO used with reason is immersive - VO as single system for immersion is lacking.
    World design, world interaction, day/night cylces, season, weather, NPC/MOB behavior, questing, fighting, looting etc. is a factor.

    I.e. killing a little Bat that drops a 2 handed giant Blunt is not immersive.
    Killing an Alligator that has a rotten arm in its stomach with a golden magic ring on the finger is a possibility.
    Getting loot like in Skyrim when you get what the opponent wears is immersive - random loot is not.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

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  • AmarantharAmaranthar OhioPosts: 2,425Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thorqemada

    Immersion is a misunderstood term that also has different meanings to individuals.
    VO used with reason is immersive - VO as single system for immersion is lacking.
    World design, world interaction, day/night cylces, season, weather, NPC/MOB behavior, questing, fighting, looting etc. is a factor.

    I.e. killing a little Bat that drops a 2 handed giant Blunt is not immersive.
    Killing an Alligator that has a rotten arm in its stomach with a golden magic ring on the finger is a possibility.
    Getting loot like in Skyrim when you get what the opponent wears is immersive - random loot is not.

    True, and I agree with your assessment, along with other aspects such as I mentioned.

    I prefer to keep terms loose like this, so that we can talk about various aspects, just as we are doing here.

    Once upon a time....

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Fun is more important.

    However, if the game is fun, there is no harm to be immersive. Just don't make it too much like the real world.

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Great YarmouthPosts: 394Member Uncommon

    Take away the immersion and all your left with is a souless game.

     

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon

    Immersion isn't over rated, it's overused and too nebulous to be of any use to describe what one wants from an MMO. 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member

    Heh.....reading about the immersion, I think of EQ. It was pretty immersive, although those damn snakes liked to kick folks.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    Immersion is one of those things that means different things to different people.  It's anything that brings you into the game, that makes you feel like you're in the gameworld.  Different things do that for different people, but also, not everyone cares about being immersed in their games. 

     

    Seems like whenever people ask if an aspect of gaming is over-rated, it's really just something some people care about more than others.  For some its extremely important, and totally under-rated.  For others, yeah, definately over-rated.

     

    For me, personally, it's extremely important.  A game has to be really awesome in some other way, for me not to care about a lack of immersion.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Flushing, MIPosts: 2,096Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln

    Immersion is one of those things that means different things to different people.  It's anything that brings you into the game, that makes you feel like you're in the gameworld.  Different things do that for different people, but also, not everyone cares about being immersed in their games. 

     

    Seems like whenever people ask if an aspect of gaming is over-rated, it's really just something some people care about more than others.  For some its extremely important, and totally under-rated.  For others, yeah, definately over-rated.

     

    For me, personally, it's extremely important.  A game has to be really awesome in some other way, for me not to care about a lack of immersion.

    That is a very clear reply Nhaln. :)

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • RabenwolfRabenwolf Los Angeles, CAPosts: 1,445Member

    Immersion means you have a positive emotional response which also indicates you are some how emotionally tied to the character and or world, you have an invested interest in the out come or desire to be in the world.

    Games must continue to be immersive and build upon it or else gamers generally will experience either anxiety or boredom, the lack of emotional response or interest in the character.

    Using voice chats and other such features over all breaks the game immersion, but adds to the play state or challenge. You can be immersed in the outcome of a match with voice chat because you are actually talking to real people in what you percieve as a game, from the outside looking in, as opposed to being inside the gameworld itself.

    Also MMO games generally have worse art assets and level immersion because the multiplayer aspect requires less intensive art to run smoothly.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon

    immersion : state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.

    A game would not be a game if you were not engaged or involved with it.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • elockeelocke Manassas, VAPosts: 4,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xDayx

    I wouldnt call voice chat one of the more immersive things. I think the most immersive is first person view only.

    See, I personally find first person view in a video game limiting and un immersive to the extreme.  To each their own though.  For me, SOUND is where immersion will factor in for me.  From the music in a zone to the ambient noise to the sound effects. Only a few games get all of them right, some get one or the other and some don't get any right.

    image
  • yewsefyewsef KuwaitPosts: 335Member

     

    There's a difference between "Fluff" immersion and "game mechanic" immersion.

     

    If the world is too easy which makes me feel I'm playing a "game" and those monsters would turn into XP+Gold pixels in my eyes in 2 hours then that kills immersion. If the same would happen but the game provides me enough mechanics which immerse me in the world which would result in situations that I would memorize and stories i would tell, then that's good immersion.

     

    When the game mechanics makes you immerse in the world atmosphere that's important.

    Fluff, isn't important but helps.

     

    I personally wish to play a game with less "convenience" at least in the UI and World. Too many "highlights" (like Warhammer's pinkish/greenish border on selected characters/items and too much use of bright/neon colors to make it convenient for you to spot what's important) that thing pisses me off.

     

  • Povey151Povey151 Goose Creek, SCPosts: 250Member

    Immersion, to me, is the difference between getting lost in an MMORPG (or any game) and playing nintendos-asian-cash-shop-online.

     

    Having to travel, feeling like I'm my character in the world, these things make me play MMO's... they make me care about my character and the world. I could drop 400 hours into an mmo and not notice it because I'm off adventuring.

    When it feels like I'm just playing a stupid video game that's going to require me to do tedious video game tasks for 400 hours so I can fly around on my super celstial purple flying war elephant with my glamour pets and silly out of date mohawk and I can play tetris and chat with 500 friends playing other games... well then it just seems stupid.

     

    Immersion is one of the most important things for all games when it comes ot my preferences, but for mmorpgs, it sets the standard.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Immersion isn't overrated... it's subjective...

    So you can't take one person's word over another, making the entire conversation moot.

    Plus people use immersion as an excuse for game play they don't like.

  • GTwanderGTwander San Diego, CAPosts: 6,035Member
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Immersion isn't overrated... it's subjective...

    So you can't take one person's word over another, making the entire conversation moot.

    Plus people use immersion as an excuse for game play they don't like.

    More like, they fail to understand the definition of the word itself.

    Writer / Musician / Game Designer

    Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
    Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,473Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GTwander
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by GTwander

    Immersion isn't overrated... it's subjective...

    So you can't take one person's word over another, making the entire conversation moot.

    Plus people use immersion as an excuse for game play they don't like.

    More like, they fail to understand the definition of the word itself.

    That is another valid way to see it.

    In any case, where we are now with games is not what I hoped it  would be ten years ago.

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon

    The very reason why I play MMORPGs is mostly for the virtual world aspect. I'm a bit of a roleplayer as well, so to me, immersion is just as important as gameplay. It's like reading a good book - sure, ultimately the plot is what matters, but losing yourself in the detail provided by the author is what separates a good book from an amazing one.

    <3

  • centkincentkin Asbury, NJPosts: 943Member Uncommon

    Immersion is one of the biggest requirements for a game being fun for me.  This is one reason why I dislike ventrillo and similar programs so much -- it yanks me out of the game world and into the modern word of screaming babies, husky elves, and tinny barbarians.  At the very least everyone should use a voice changer to make them a little closer to their characters. 

    Immersion, advancement, growth, and content.

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