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Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILMember Posts: 6,403
    Originally posted by ignore_me SWTOR was a big let down here on the game forums. So the discussions go on here on the game forums. Where people generally talk about games. On the game forums.

    Many of them like flautists with bent keys, eternally playing the same note.

    I think at times this forum is just infinite looping, particularly between game releases.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonMember Posts: 340 Uncommon

    SWG was dead the day NGE went live. i saw my server drop 3/4 of the population over the course of a night because of it. Every city I went to was empty. The only place I saw anyone was a small band of jedi dancing because its the only thing they could do since melee was destroyed.

    I left the next day and never went back.

    image

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAMember Posts: 792 Uncommon

    man, I cant get over the obsession peeps have for sub numbers. Honestly if it has a good community, healthy servers...who cares if it has 100k,200k, or 1mil subs. I would rather play a game that has 10 solid servers and say 100k subs,than a game that has 1mil subs and 500 server,but the servers are speratic at best. there are so many MMOs out now that its going to be hard for ANY MMO to get more than 500k steady subs after 6+ months imo,and from what I have seen.

    the main reason as to why SWTOR failed/came short imo was the end game, the journey (for me) was fun,exciting,and enjoyable. after about a week of doing dailies I started to have flash backs of other games..doing the same mechanic at end game. for MMOs to be successful these days (again imo) they need to find new mechanics at end game for players..what that is idk.

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret caveMember Posts: 478 Uncommon

    SWTOR has NOT flopped though.  It still has way more players than most MMORPGs.  BW has also made back all the money they spent on development already so it's making BIG profit.

    The problem is there are to many servers so the population is spread way to thin.  That and people are only logging in for Ops and weeklys at the moment so the numbers on the fleet are lower than they were when most people were leveling.

     

    SWG was not AT ALL a success.  It lost most it's players after the first couple of months and most of the content was broken and never really got fixed.  The engine was also terrible and ran like crap, combat was seriously broken and leveling was totally dull.  All it had going for it were player housing and some parts of the crafting system.  It also went completely off the starwars plot for the time period it was set.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaMember Posts: 7,912 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Luxely
    Personally, SWG was better.  It was great, fun and less cartoonish like SWTOR is.  Before/After NGE, I don't care.. I still miss it :(

    I agree. :(

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • mmaizemmaize Hutto, TXMember Posts: 274
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Luxely
    Personally, SWG was better.  It was great, fun and less cartoonish like SWTOR is.  Before/After NGE, I don't care.. I still miss it :(

    I agree. :(

    The thing is...you had it.  And it failed.  What do you suppose would change if it came back?

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLMember Posts: 4,050 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Olgark
    SWG was dead the day NGE went live. i saw my server drop 3/4 of the population over the course of a night because of it. Every city I went to was empty. The only place I saw anyone was a small band of jedi dancing because its the only thing they could do since melee was destroyed. I left the next day and never went back.

    This. The game lost a lot of subs, but it wasn't as bad as I've seen in other games. My friends didn't like the CU and many said that when the game gets to the point that they are forced into roles a la WOW they would leave. When November hit, that is exactly what the my entire guild/city did. I left and came back a couple of times, but usually didn't last long.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • dontadowdontadow Detroit, MIMember Posts: 994 Uncommon

    Easy, the espectations were to high. They spent too much on it.  Now, if they spent 40 percent of the cost or even half, this would be a mild success.  But so much money, they expected 15 million subs. 

  • maniacfoxmaniacfox SheffieldMember Posts: 171 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Olgark
    ...they should of made KOTOR 3 instead with the money it would of done far better.

    +1

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAMember Posts: 10,910 Common


    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by Olgark SWG was dead the day NGE went live. i saw my server drop 3/4 of the population over the course of a night because of it. Every city I went to was empty. The only place I saw anyone was a small band of jedi dancing because its the only thing they could do since melee was destroyed. I left the next day and never went back.
    This. The game lost a lot of subs, but it wasn't as bad as I've seen in other games. My friends didn't like the CU and many said that when the game gets to the point that they are forced into roles a la WOW they would leave. When November hit, that is exactly what the my entire guild/city did. I left and came back a couple of times, but usually didn't last long.


    SWG did better post NGE than pre-NGE. They certainly did lose a lot of their players, but they gained more than they lost. Not enough to cover the cost of the change...but more players.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret caveMember Posts: 478 Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones
      Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by Olgark SWG was dead the day NGE went live. i saw my server drop 3/4 of the population over the course of a night because of it. Every city I went to was empty. The only place I saw anyone was a small band of jedi dancing because its the only thing they could do since melee was destroyed. I left the next day and never went back.
    This. The game lost a lot of subs, but it wasn't as bad as I've seen in other games. My friends didn't like the CU and many said that when the game gets to the point that they are forced into roles a la WOW they would leave. When November hit, that is exactly what the my entire guild/city did. I left and came back a couple of times, but usually didn't last long.


    SWG did better post NGE than pre-NGE. They certainly did lose a lot of their players, but they gained more than they lost. Not enough to cover the cost of the change...but more players.

     

    Only because people subbed for a month to see if it fixed all the problems.  But they left again when they saw it didn't

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYMember Posts: 174

    Do you space space spacebar between scenes in movies? Imagine if you did that to every movie you ever watched the first time, lolz. That's what it seems like to people that actually enjoy the story :D We are aghast as how you can do this, at least the first time through a storyline :D Alot are generic, granted, but the main story is just that, a great story you're missing out on. If you do it just for the PvP or something then I feel genuinely sad for you loss.

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYMember Posts: 174

    To me, the only thing lacking in endgame is being able to do it.

  • ZenIrishChaiZenIrishChai St Louis, MOMember Posts: 527 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Olgark
    ...they should of made KOTOR 3 instead with the money it would of done far better.

     

    image I would've played it a lot longer too. I liked it a lot at first, but it didn't strike me as much of an online game or a good subscription game after playing it for a couple of months. I would still play it now if it went F2P or at least gave me access to just the already implemented pve content. The problem is I don't care about the rest of it.

  • BardusBardus Cornet, ALMember Posts: 460
    Originally posted by mmaize
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Luxely
    Personally, SWG was better.  It was great, fun and less cartoonish like SWTOR is.  Before/After NGE, I don't care.. I still miss it :(

    I agree. :(

    The thing is...you had it.  And it failed.  What do you suppose would change if it came back?

    What I recall since I was there, was LA pulled the license because they thought we gamers are too stupid to know what game we're playing. It didn't fail and close due to lack of profit at all.

    This TOR game is just now coming on 6 months old, look at your server populations and the cost to keep it running. Do you think it will live 8 1/2 years before LA forces it to close? Do you really?

    It was a bone head move by LA no doubt in my mind. Both games could of benefitted off each other since they are in the same genre but polar oposites. Would of gave LA 2 money streams but now LA is in the verge of having no games in this market. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    image

  • sindraodsindraod Avon Lake, OHMember Posts: 28
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    SWG did better post NGE than pre-NGE. They certainly did lose a lot of their players, but they gained more than they lost. Not enough to cover the cost of the change...but more players.

    Better financially? I'm an MMO gamer, not a stockbroker, and the game stunk post-NGE. So sorry if I don't think that's "doing better."

    This goes to the core of why MMOs are doing poorly now. I vaguely remember a time when developers wanted to make quality games with potential for longevity. I think it might have been a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away or something. I dunno.

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYMember Posts: 174

    Star War! ~Slides out on knees!

    Duh duh duh duh, duh duh! (Music)

    Still lovin' this game :D

    Started in Jan 19 :D Plan to keep playing until all are 50 :D

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAMember Posts: 1,987
    Originally posted by Moaky07
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    Due to the magic of television (which we are not allowed to talk about) I played both in direct comparison recently, and except for the graphics difference and the slow combat of SWG, SWTOR just sucks. I will cede that SWG may be a shit game, but SWTOR is super-shit, so the net difference decides it.

    I never said that ToR wasn't shit. In fact I would agree with you.

    This was about success and failure though. ToR has completely decimated SWG in terms of success.

    Moneywise, sure. no argument. the direct comparison is factual concerning money.

    Kind of weird though considering SWG is dead. Its value is effectively zero isn't it?

    SWGs value was effectively zero 6 months after launch. 200 to 250k doesnt pay the bills when you are feeding LA as well.

     

    CU didnt happen just on a whimsical dare.  Kostor was more concerned with making a nice stage for roleplay, vs giving activites to majority of potential gamers out there. EQ showed folks like PVE, but for some reason Raph was oblivious to it.

     

    Even worse, SWG was a broken buggy POS. Heck it couldnt even support a Y axis, let alone 1 char per server cause the database was fubar'ed.

     

    We have listened to you guys try to rewrite the history on SWG for yrs. Anyone around during that time remembers all the complaints about that game prior to CU. For newer gamers, they just need to hit some of the old reviews to see the 6s and 7s.

     

    SOE was the biggest name in NA for MMOs when SWG hit, yet despite the Sony name, coupled with one of the biggest IPs, it was still ripped a new asshole. Not just by reviewers, but by gamers alike. I suggest a trip in the time machine to visit the SWG forums here on MMORPG, and see what folks were saying back then. Here I will help ya with a link....

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/803/page/245 

     

    Anyways as some have said....TOR has already sold a ton. The PVP folks are mostly gone now. BW needs to keep kicking content for PVE folks, and consolidate servers if they hope to ever grow again. There are a lot of folks in the MMO sphere that like a game chock full of PVE, but they need to have others around as well.

    Nice. I try to move away from the SWG straw man, and get punditry from someone to whom sandboxes are anathema. It was a good post, but I'm done with the comparisons to SWG.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • IkifalesIkifales tucson, AZMember Posts: 291 Uncommon
    It didn't flop so...
  • DemandmanDemandman BergenMember Posts: 57
    Originally posted by Bleakmage
    Star War! ~Slides out on knees! Duh duh duh duh, duh duh! (Music) Still lovin' this game :D Started in Jan 19 :D Plan to keep playing until all are 50 :D

    Sockpuppet much...

  • NagilumSadowNagilumSadow Atlanta, GAMember Posts: 300 Uncommon
    Bio/LA/EA has to come to terms: SWTOR as an "MMO" is fundamentally flawed from the ground up. Everything in the MMO reinforces artificiallity -- everything form the Red & green doors to the arcade style 16-bit space "mini-game". That is just the superficial beginning of the problem.
     
    Frankly it isn't an MMORPG, but rather, a series of arbitrary paths you're forced to take inside a mini-game -- while being given the illusion of choices and options.
     
    The best they can do is slowly phase-out everything they've thus far done, and replace it over time with new systems. The way they handled space should simply be deleted, and re-initialized with a page from the SWG play book.
     
    Ideally they need to wipe the servers and start all over (with a different engine). Frankly EA could have given 10 million to twelve talented programers & artists and they could have delivered a VASTLY better mmorpg than Bioware did.
     
    Heck they could have put light sabers in Fallen Earth and it would have been a better SW MMO.
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  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCMember Posts: 464

    SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

  • EletherylEletheryl morenoMember Posts: 152
    Originally posted by slickbizzle
    SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

    Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkMember Posts: 1,350

    EA.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAMember Posts: 7,928
    Originally posted by Eletheryl
    Originally posted by slickbizzle
    SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

    Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

    or any crap that sold big on one of the biggest IPs in the world and a huge marketing campaign is fail here... but to each their own...

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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