Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Why are "cash shops" in subscription based games acceptable?

FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member

Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?

 

Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!

 

It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.

 

Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!". 

 

I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!

The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

«134567

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,677Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

    It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

    It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

     

    What :|

     

    Why did you edit several points in my post completely changing the whole idea? 

     

    The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • s1fu71s1fu71 fair oaks, CAPosts: 220Member

    I think people "readily accept" a cash shop in a subscription model if they perceive that nothing in the cash shop gives an unfair advantage. In other words, if the cash shop offers fluff, or if it offers things  you can get in game with enough play.

    I'm not defending cash shops at all. But, I often see people accept them if this is their perception. Mostly I see casuals say things like, "I don't have the time to raid and get this gear. But, I can pay for it or something similar."

    I don't particularly care. The only cash shop I used was for DCUO. I'm on their F2P model. I spent a few bucks on getting more character slots. Perhaps that wasn't the best example since I don't sub. But, it's the only example I have. I don't see people in game really complaining or praising the cash shop in game.

    It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Fadedbomb Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box. It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.
     
    What :|

     

    Why did you edit several points in my post completely changing the whole idea? 

     

    The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.




    There's nothing disrespectful about cash shops. There's nothing respectful about cash shops. It's not 'good' or 'evil'. It's an amoral activity, not an immoral activity.

    Companies* are looking for ways to make money. The idea that they're going to make 'enough' money and be done is silly. It's never going to happen. If it's possible for them to make money by putting cash shops in games, they will.

    The only control on the situation is the gamers themselves. If they buy more stuff in a cash shop, on top of paying a sub, then the developers were right to put the cash shop in, because the players give them money for putting it in there.

    * Developers who release games are companies.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers

    You are not paying the developers, you are paying for product. Once you give out the money, they are no longer yours thus stop making demands how the receiver should spent them.


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

    Just because you don't get the point of the post, does not mean it is lacking one...

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,677Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the expansion box.

    It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they sell popcorn and candy.

     

    What :|

    Well, in your first highlight, you ask why people would accept cash shops when there are paid expansions. The two are often the same so it would be odd to find one acceptable and not the other.

    In your second highlight, you separate expansion and additional items again, which is also odd, especially when you are talking about optional fluff content compared to expansion content which you often need to buy in order to progress further (new skills progression, raised level cap, better gear, etc).

    In your third highlight, you create the odd analogy of having to buy a seat... when that's what the ticket is for. If you don't believe me, try to buy a ticket for a movie in a theatre at capacity. A more realistic comparison to fluff items in a video game would be the theater's concession stand. Should your popcorn and soda be free? If you feel it should be included in the price, do you mind paying a higher price for movies to allow for free popcorn and soda, even if you don't want any?

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • rammur65rammur65 spokane, WAPosts: 57Member

    Well the obvious answer is people are ACTUALLy paying and using them cash shop only reason companies are putting them in they benefit from it. If people would boycott them and just flat out stop using them then they wouldnt be putting them in.

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common

    I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Sible HedinghamPosts: 1,676Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xzen

    I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

    +1, although it's a bit different if the introduce the shop etc. after you're invested in the game.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Karahandras
    Originally posted by Xzen

    I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

    +1, although it's a bit different if the introduce the shop etc. after you're invested in the game.

    I voted with my wallet with RIFT, SWTOR, and now Diablo 3.

    Similarly, I'll do the same for TSW when it releases. 

     

    You're preaching to the choir :]!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member
    Originally posted by Xzen

    I don't play games that have Box purchase + Sub Fee + Cash Shop + Expansion purchase. If you don't like it do the same and vote with your wallet.

    You can vote with your wallet all you want, but then why do they still keep poping up?

    The gamers are the ones responsible for all this bullsh**. While devs where out there trying to make AAA mmorpg, lazy devs copied wow, charged horrible CS prices.

    Which one did you pick? The F2P. Then devs saw they could also use it. if F2P can, why not AAA titles. You shouldn't have bought from ANY CS in the first place. Doesn't matter if it's F2P. It's like DLC. You gave companies ideas, and now we have day 1 DLC and endings getting cut off from the main product.

    And why should B2P get away with it. I paid for my box price. Want more money? Charge a sub fee so everyones on equal pace. Getting all items from Cash shops costs far more than paying a sub at the end of the year anyway.

    I hate all this crap with mmos and video games in general, but it's the gamers fault for allowing this. You people still buy at launch day, never wait just 1 stupid month and then come QQ about wasting your money.

    We gamers gave them the idea of nickle and dime. We are the ones wasting money left and right without controll. So now, we pay what it gave.

     

     

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon

    Before we had cash shops in pay to play games there WAS no way to have a race change, name change, or transfer servers.

    Would you prefer it that way?  LESS choices?  LESS options?

    There are two ways this can go.

    A.  We have games that offer premium services that go above and beyond what is expected of a subscription fee, cosmetic things.

    B.  We don't have these services offered at all.

     

    Almost every gamer will tell you they'd prefer A, a world where they have the choice.

  • teakboisteakbois Parlin, NJPosts: 2,154Member
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Just wondering why people readily accept games that have "Cash Shops" in products that already require a monthly fee AND paid expansions?

     

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers to create content with your monthly sub only to resell that content you ALREADY PAID FOR via the cash shop? I shouldn't have to buy the box, pay a monthly fee, pay for expansions, AND pay for extra "fluff" content that i've already paid for to begin with!!!

     

    It's like paying to see a movie, and once you're inside they ask you to buy a seat to watch the movie. Sure, you could stand in the back and watch it, but by the time the movie is over your legs are jelly and your face is stuck to that disgusting floor because the movie dragged on for 2hrs.

     

    Don't get me wrong. CCP are one of the best companies running an MMO nowadays. Their product may not be very popular, but they certainly know how to run an MMO. $20 "digital box" price (that's been on sale recently down to $6), $15/month fee, with FREE expansions & they even doubled-back on their planned cash shop for "fluff" avatar clothing because they listened to the players who said "NO!". 

     

    I'm also an advocate for monthly fees over "Free to Play", however that's another box of chocolates :]!

    Dont forget that CCP sell's PLEXes which can be lost in game, so it takes in more than 15 a month per subscriber.  They also have the second (third if you count swtor) highest player base in the west so they take in more sub fees than anyone besides WoW, and their game takes a smaller dev base to produce content for due to the nature of the game.  EvE is a unique entity and can't really be used to compare

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Do people not realize that you're paying the developers

     

    You are not paying the developers, you are paying for product. Once you give out the money, they are no longer yours thus stop making demands how the receiver should spent them.

     


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    The point of this thread is discussing the disrespectful use of "Cash Shops". Your edit didn't even make sense at all.

     

    Just because you don't get the point of the post, does not mean it is lacking one...

    Actually the entire point of a subscription to to pay for further developed content (ie: you've already paid for what they develope in the future as long as you have an active subscription). That means you're paying them to develope content for the cash shop only for them to turn around and sell it back to you.

     

    Believe me, I've been around the MMO market a very long time. I've had this discussion with developers & suits from SOE all the way to Blizzard. They use your sub to develope that cash-shop content only to resell it back to you. Where do you think the money comes from to pay those developers to make content for those item-malls? Chicken before the egg scenario :).

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by teakbois

    Dont forget that CCP sell's PLEXes which can be lost in game, so it takes in more than 15 a month per subscriber.  They also have the second (third if you count swtor) highest player base in the west so they take in more sub fees than anyone besides WoW, and their game takes a smaller dev base to produce content for due to the nature of the game.  EvE is a unique entity and can't really be used to compare

    I've friends who've never paid for EvE, they earn enough money in game to just pay for it that way....

    Yeah thats bad right? 

     

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    It is not acceptable for me.  I vote no with my wallet.

    One of biggest reasons I don't buy TSW.

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Before we had cash shops in pay to play games there WAS no way to have a race change, name change, or transfer servers.

    Would you prefer it that way?  LESS choices?  LESS options?

    There are two ways this can go.

    A.  We have games that offer premium services that go above and beyond what is expected of a subscription fee, cosmetic things.

    B.  We don't have these services offered at all.

     

    Almost every gamer will tell you they'd prefer A, a world where they have the choice.

    There's a difference between SERVICES and CONTENT

    SERVICES: Race Change, Name Change, Server Transfers.

    CONTENT: Clothing, Mounts, Weapon Textures, Armor Dyes, Armor Textures, Houses, GuildHalls, etc

     

    See my point? I have no problem with SERVICES. What I have a problem with is the latter.

     

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • ThorbrandThorbrand West Palm Beach, FLPosts: 1,198Member

    Some reason gold buying is now acceptable. All game companies what is to suck as much money from the gamers as possible. I spend at least 10 times a year on games now than I did in 1999 but I only get to play a few months of that year (Piss poor games) in worlds that aren't even a 50th of old school MMO worlds.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Actually the entire point of a subscription to..

    ..is to make money. No more, no less.


    You are not paying them to do xxx. You either pay the price for what is offered(product or service) or you don't.


    I do not think it can be put simpler...

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,677Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Actually the entire point of a subscription to to pay for further developed content (ie: you've already paid for what they develope in the future as long as you have an active subscription). That means you're paying them to develope content for the cash shop only for them to turn around and sell it back to you.

    That is your assumption.If you want to get down to it, the point of a subscription is to get you invested in a way that you are more likely to pay money the next month.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by teakbois
    -snip-

    Dont forget that CCP sell's PLEXes which can be lost in game, so it takes in more than 15 a month per subscriber.  They also have the second (third if you count swtor) highest player base in the west so they take in more sub fees than anyone besides WoW, and their game takes a smaller dev base to produce content for due to the nature of the game.  EvE is a unique entity and can't really be used to compare

    I disagree. EvE is a perfect example of how to run an MMO properly.

    Their PLEX system devolves the massive need by those with expendable incomes to purchase from illegal sources. It allows further revenue to come into CCP's hands via legitimate purchasing of tradable subscriptions at a slightly higher price (I think PLEX are $17 right now for 30days?).

    This means that ALL isk traded for EvE PLEX's stay within the economy and do NOT hurt the bottom line with inflation. A perfect system designed for those who want to buy isk, but not destroy the economy. It also decreases gold farming companies hacking accounts due to the tracking methods CCP have installed to counter illegal 3rd party transactions. They did it this way for the PLEX system, and ironed it out before allowing the PLEX system to go into service.

     

    Lastly, EvE's low budget cost for content development is due to the environment that a REAL "Sandbox" title allows. I've been saying it for years that Themeparks are simply more costly than Sandboxes. This is why EvE, again, is a perfect example :)!

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb
    Originally posted by Laughing-man

    Before we had cash shops in pay to play games there WAS no way to have a race change, name change, or transfer servers.

    Would you prefer it that way?  LESS choices?  LESS options?

    There are two ways this can go.

    A.  We have games that offer premium services that go above and beyond what is expected of a subscription fee, cosmetic things.

    B.  We don't have these services offered at all.

     

    Almost every gamer will tell you they'd prefer A, a world where they have the choice.

    There's a difference between SERVICES and CONTENT

    SERVICES: Race Change, Name Change, Server Transfers.

    CONTENT: Clothing, Mounts, Weapon Textures, Armor Dyes, Armor Textures, Houses, GuildHalls, etc

     

    See my point? I have no problem with SERVICES. What I have a problem with is the latter.

     

    So cosmetic items that were developed solely for the distribution via their premium shop are bad?  

    I mean you list off a whole lot of things, yet as far as I'm aware, which I like yourself have been following the MMO genre for a while... which I'm not even sure why anyone mentions that since I mean we're on MMORPG.com, its kinda obvious we're not fresh off the wagon.  What game makes you pay for Guild Halls?  or Houses for that mater?

    I've never heard of those at all...  And the games where you can get dyes and such most of them are obtainable in game.

    Do I think its great they make skins that only people who pay can get?  Nah not really, but I understand why, and I don't think its worth protesting or getting all upset about.

    It does not change game play in any way, and every game I've ever seen with a sub and a cash shop does not focus much on the cosmetic gear side, look at WoW, they've only released 2 mounts and a hand full of non combatant pets over the course of several years.  I mean this isn't very alarming... 

  • FadedbombFadedbomb Aiken, SCPosts: 2,081Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Actually the entire point of a subscription to to pay for further developed content (ie: you've already paid for what they develope in the future as long as you have an active subscription). That means you're paying them to develope content for the cash shop only for them to turn around and sell it back to you.

    That is your assumption.If you want to get down to it, the point of a subscription is to get you invested in a way that you are more likely to pay money the next month.

    I suppose it differs from person to person, as you say. I've never been "invested" in a game to pay for the next month without a good reason such as proof that content continues to flow into the game & the developers aren't willing to sacrifice the product for increased revenue. 

    The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
    Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.

  • FredomSekerZFredomSekerZ Long Beach, CAPosts: 1,156Member

    Cash shops shouldn't be used in the first place, but since players care more about wasting money on crappy xp boost and cosmetic items in crappy f2p-from-the-groundup  wow clones, why shouldn't AAA mmorpg get it either?

     

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,870Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Fadedbomb

    Lastly, EvE's low budget cost for content development

    300 developers working on on-going EVE online development is such a low budget cost...

«134567
Sign In or Register to comment.