It's laughable to think of EvE as starting as a AAA release when at the time of release they had under 50K subs. Less than Runescape had online any point at that point in time.
It's of course pointless to argue if CCP is AAA or not now with the amount of manpower they have access to.
edit: as a matter of fact when you look at EvE's release in china, it got a pretty awesome release that trumps most other games. Essentially I'll say that EvE in it's current status is AAA, and more reliable that most AAA games(which is one reason I've loved playing it).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Look at GW2 and how ArenaNet tries to do so many things differently. The next step to make a successful MMO will obviously be to make it different to WoW and its clones. And what is the next step? A sandbox MMO!
I think a good sandbox MMO could be awesome, but they have to find a solution to the core problems:
-progression:
Pure sandbox games were NEVER popular because they alienate huge groups of players. The mainstream gamer does not want to be left in a world with no direction and no clue as to what he/she is supposed to do. They also don't want to deal with many of the harsh realities that usually accompany sandbox games. This is why games like UO and SWG failed to gain the kind of subscriber numbers that games like WoW and other popular themeparks were able to attain. Themepark games are just simply more accessible to mainstream gamers.
That being said, I do think that a well done hybrid of themepark/sandbox could be done that would satisfy both playerbases, but I have yet to see any developer even attempt to do this right (except for maybe Archeage).
I second this,
Iv been saying this all along ... MMo's were introduced to a large portion of gamers who really shouldnt be playing MMo's. Nothing to differentiate the players... No skill required, no penalties and everybody wins. Its like a religion where everybody gets to goto heaven no matter what. The funny thing is the sense of pride they have for their choice of "McDonalds style" Mmo's...
Its easy to get burned out playing a theme park mmo. Sandbox seems to go on forever. I consider DAoC to be a mainly theme park with rvr being the sandbox. Sure there were goals such as taking keeps, towers, relics, defending areas, ambushing other players. The things you could do in an open RvR world are almost endless. Instead we are force fed the same "Battlegrounds" or whatever you want to kill the pvp instances in the crap today.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
So what makes something AAA? The cost? Well, SWTOR cost a lot. The company reputation? EA voted worst company by consumers, but SWTOR still labeled AAA. The quality actually delivered to the consumer? Tell that to the thousands of people who have quit AAA touted MMOs in the last few years. To me, AAA is another hype term. Nothing more. Nothing less.
It's laughable to think of EvE as starting as a AAA release when at the time of release they had under 50K subs. Less than Runescape had online any point at that point in time.
It's of course pointless to argue if CCP is AAA or not now with the amount of manpower they have access to.
edit: as a matter of fact when you look at EvE's release in china, it got a pretty awesome release that trumps most other games. Essentially I'll say that EvE in it's current status is AAA, and more reliable that most AAA games(which is one reason I've loved playing it).
I'm quite certain it's a fact that pure sandboxes (I presume that means hyper-realistic FFA PvP sandboxes with 0 dev content or something, I still disagree that's even a valid definition) won't ever be anything but niche. There are just not that many people who like that for an AAA dev to bother.
EVE is probably as close as it will ever get, which isn't too bad.
This thread is dumb. There already is a AAA sandbox. It's called EVE. It's been around for a long time. World of Darkness is another AAA sandbox in development. Made by the same company as EVE. Perhaps it's just that most big companies don't want to invest in sandboxes for reasons unknown? One company in Iceland has made one and is making another, so it's hardly impossible.
EVE still hasnt matched EQ numbers during its heyday, and themepark gamers have grown substantially since 03/04.
You take away the Plex system, and EVE would be lucky to sport 200k IMO. By tapping the gold sale market themselves, EVE devs are able to inflate their numbers.
You mention WoD, and there is also ArcheAge incoming. I certainly dont see either pulling a bunch of new sandbox MMO gamers in North America. Instead I see a redistribution of the pitiful amount of players already found in EVE.
Then again that is my opinion, and we will have to wait n see.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Three dubiously defined terms in the title alone. Uh..no thanks.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Pure sandbox games were NEVER popular because they alienate huge groups of players. The mainstream gamer does not want to be left in a world with no direction and no clue as to what he/she is supposed to do. They also don't want to deal with many of the harsh realities that usually accompany sandbox games. This is why games like UO and SWG failed to gain the kind of subscriber numbers that games like WoW and other popular themeparks were able to attain. Themepark games are just simply more accessible to mainstream gamers.
The only reason WoW did so good in the sales department was because they ADVERTISED. Before WoW I do not recall any television advertisments for mmorpgs specially not a South Park episode based off them. Basically developers just put a worm on a hook where as Blizzard threw chum in the water.
P.S. WoW sucks as well as its clones.
Having the name of an already hugely popular game, like "Warcraft" in the game's title helped too, I'm sure.
Comments
This thread is kind of pointless. There is already a AAA pure sandbox game, and that is EVE Online.
Also, SWG was a AAA pure sandbox as well back in it's glory days.
It's laughable to think of EvE as starting as a AAA release when at the time of release they had under 50K subs. Less than Runescape had online any point at that point in time.
It's of course pointless to argue if CCP is AAA or not now with the amount of manpower they have access to.
edit: as a matter of fact when you look at EvE's release in china, it got a pretty awesome release that trumps most other games. Essentially I'll say that EvE in it's current status is AAA, and more reliable that most AAA games(which is one reason I've loved playing it).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I second this,
Iv been saying this all along ... MMo's were introduced to a large portion of gamers who really shouldnt be playing MMo's. Nothing to differentiate the players... No skill required, no penalties and everybody wins. Its like a religion where everybody gets to goto heaven no matter what. The funny thing is the sense of pride they have for their choice of "McDonalds style" Mmo's...
Ok its not funny XD
Its easy to get burned out playing a theme park mmo. Sandbox seems to go on forever. I consider DAoC to be a mainly theme park with rvr being the sandbox. Sure there were goals such as taking keeps, towers, relics, defending areas, ambushing other players. The things you could do in an open RvR world are almost endless. Instead we are force fed the same "Battlegrounds" or whatever you want to kill the pvp instances in the crap today.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
I'd agree, if UO and SWG never existed.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
^THIS^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
I'm quite certain it's a fact that pure sandboxes (I presume that means hyper-realistic FFA PvP sandboxes with 0 dev content or something, I still disagree that's even a valid definition) won't ever be anything but niche. There are just not that many people who like that for an AAA dev to bother.
EVE is probably as close as it will ever get, which isn't too bad.
EVE still hasnt matched EQ numbers during its heyday, and themepark gamers have grown substantially since 03/04.
You take away the Plex system, and EVE would be lucky to sport 200k IMO. By tapping the gold sale market themselves, EVE devs are able to inflate their numbers.
You mention WoD, and there is also ArcheAge incoming. I certainly dont see either pulling a bunch of new sandbox MMO gamers in North America. Instead I see a redistribution of the pitiful amount of players already found in EVE.
Then again that is my opinion, and we will have to wait n see.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Three dubiously defined terms in the title alone. Uh..no thanks.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Don't loose your faith, concept of 'sandbox' will never get old/forgotten.
---
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
If indie companies can make sandbox games with terraforming I don't see why a company with 50 mil can't. It's just an excuse.
Id rather make a game where people feel inclined to stick around for years and not just months once they hit level cap.
Having the name of an already hugely popular game, like "Warcraft" in the game's title helped too, I'm sure.