Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Anybody else afraid to buy this game, since it's releasing in the shadow of SWToR?

12346

Comments

  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    Originally posted by simplyawful
    Originally posted by dubyahite
     

    That may be their intent, but I still have doubt that everyone will go through the effort required to do it.  Just because quests are repeatable doesn't mean that people are going to run around doing every quest over and over to get every skill. The more casual players most certainly won't in my opinion.

     

    Let's throw that argument out though, and assume you are right. Every single person who plays the game will get every skill unlocked at some point. Or at least the vast majority will. That's fine, I can go along with that.  

     

    The real point of my argument, however, is that even if your average player has every skill available to them, the vast majority will go unused by any given player. Most people are simply not going to have enough builds rattling around in their heads that can utilize all 500 skills.

    There are people out there who absolutely refuse to heal, for example. In lots of class based games there are classes capable of being healers or dps. SWTOR is a good recent example of this. Your average sith inquisitor was not a healer. I knew many that had zero interest in healing, they just wanted to zap stuff with lightning. Those people aren't going to be out there using every build possible. 

    Even within healers there are several different ways to make a healing build between the different weapons with healing. Not to mention the passives. 

    The same could be said for any role. People aren't going to use every dps spec out there just because they can. They will use what they like

     

    I get your point. Yes people will be able to swap between roles at will, noone is locked into any one thing, but will they? That is the question that matters. Like I said, just because you can make a tanking build, doesn't mean you are a good tank. 

     

     

    First off, instead of levels there is degree of completion of the wheel i.e. the % of skills you've unlocked. That is essentially the level. You're assuming that not everybody will hit max level, which is kind of ridiculous. There aren't many western MMORPGs out where you can't hit max level reasonably, EQ was one but that was more than a decade ago.

    It's also ridiculous to assume that people won't use more than one build. It defeats the entire purpose of the weapon system. You're supposed to use more than one set of two weapons in different situations depending on what is needed. Specialization in this game exists to some degree, but is not the core of the game. The game is classless precisely because of that.

    You're not supposed to specialize heavily like in other games, you're supposed to adapt to what is needed. The combat is probably simple for that reason as well, since you're supposed to master different roles.

     

    If you refuse to heal, then it's fine, because everybody else can heal. If you refuse to tank, that's fine too, because everybody else can tank. The same holds for dps. You CAN do everything, but you're not forced. You only make it harder on yourself if you want to specialize in one role though...

     

     

    I understand all of this stuff.  

     

    I'm not saying people won't use more than one build. I'm saying that they won't use ALL builds.  This is how their character will be different than others. Between the builds they are comfortable with, and the gear they have, they will only be proficient with a certain number of builds. 

     

    I'm also not saying that everyone will specialize in one role. I'm saying that there are things that they will like to do and things that they don't like to do.

     

    Your last paragraph is making my point for me actually.  Remember we are talking about differentiating your character from other characters (or at least I was). The skills/builds/gear you use will determine how your character is different from others, that's all I was saying.  

     

    It's not as simple as saying that every person will have access to every skill. What makes them different is what skills they choose to use, as I have said all along

    Shadow's Hand Guild
    Open recruitment for

    The Secret World - Dragons

    Planetside 2 - Terran Republic

    Tera - Dragonfall Server

    http://www.shadowshand.com

  • NethriilNethriil OsloPosts: 178Member
    The Cool part is that in pvp you can change your build depending on who you meet. This exponentially increases strategy in pvp.
  • simplyawfulsimplyawful Los Alamos, CAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by dubyahite

     

    I understand all of this stuff.  

     

    I'm not saying people won't use more than one build. I'm saying that they won't use ALL builds.  This is how their character will be different than others. Between the builds they are comfortable with, and the gear they have, they will only be proficient with a certain number of builds. 

     

    I'm also not saying that everyone will specialize in one role. I'm saying that there are things that they will like to do and things that they don't like to do.

     

    Your last paragraph is making my point for me actually.  Remember we are talking about differentiating your character from other characters (or at least I was). The skills/builds/gear you use will determine how your character is different from others, that's all I was saying.  

     

    It's not as simple as saying that every person will have access to every skill. What makes them different is what skills they choose to use, as I have said all along

     

    What some people will, or will not do is irrelevant. What is relevant is what features are actually offered by the game.

     If I make you a sandwich and you throw away everything but the bread, it doesn't mean that every element of the sandwich was a point of customization.

     

  • DalaimocDalaimoc HannoverPosts: 28Member

    SWToR doen't have a shadow. It IS a shadow of what it could have been.

     

     

    image
  • dubyahitedubyahite Lincoln, NEPosts: 2,483Member
    @simplyawful

    Oh my, the old bad food analogy. So tired of seeing those around here.


    Ah screw it, let's continue with that analogy. I'll clean it up for you a bit so that it's more relevant.

    This game isnt giving you a sandwich, it's giving you all of the ingredients to make a sandwich how you want. It's giving you bread, ham, roast beef, turkey, salami, lettuce, mayo, mustard, tomatoes, American cheese, Swiss, cheddar, etc.

    I get to choose what goes on my favorite sandwich, and you get to choose your own. They will likely be different with 500 toppings. I might like different sandwiches at different times, that doesn't mean there is no customization.


    Your position is strange to me. You are arguingthatthere is no customization in a game that doesn't restrict what you can choose to use on your character and arguably gives you many more choices for that character than any class based system.

    I don't understand how everyone having access to all weapons and abilities = no customization. It doesn't make any sense to me.

    You and I may both make tanks. There are a ton of tanking abities in the skill wheel. My tank could work entirely differently then yours but both are viable.

    Same with any of the roles. You say there is no customization because anyone can switch to anything at any time. Im saying that even though that is true different people can go about it entirely differently. There are plenty of different ways to make a healer or a dps or a tank in this game.


    You know what? As soon as a conversation on this site devolves into terrible food analogies, I give up. Why is it always food?


    It's fine if you don't see or believe there will be customization in this game. I don't see how you could miss it, but whatever. Maybe we just aren't thinking of the same definition of customization I guess. To me this is far more customizable than say a game with skill trees.

    This system is similar to D3's skill system In a way, only with far more skills. I know I have experienced a lot of customization of my character in that game. I have used builds/gear that drastically alter my play style many times over again. To me, TSW has the d3 system on steroids.

    I'm guessing you see customization as some permanent thing that locks your character into a specific build? That or maybe you are thinking of a class system? Classes prevent peoplefrom getting all skills lime you are arguing against, but to me it seems far less customizable.


    Anyway, I give up. This is pointless, as neither of us is going to change our minds. I'm going to enjoy the game regardless, so it doesn't really matter to me.

    Shadow's Hand Guild
    Open recruitment for

    The Secret World - Dragons

    Planetside 2 - Terran Republic

    Tera - Dragonfall Server

    http://www.shadowshand.com

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Kinchyle
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. 

    Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.

     

    Seriously?!?!?

     

    Are you just one of those Funcom haters then? Because they have one of the best track records for MMOs unless you are a hater.

     

     

     Lol...just came across this gem. One of the best track records my ass.

    Or is this like in Fringe where you're from the other dimension where something like this might actually be even remotely close to being true?

    I'm interested in this game and am purchasing it myself but...yeah...can't blame anyone for being hesitant towards Funcom.

     

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • simplyawfulsimplyawful Los Alamos, CAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by dubyahite


    This system is similar to D3's skill system In a way, only with far more skills. I know I have experienced a lot of customization of my character in that game. I have used builds/gear that drastically alter my play style many times over again. To me, TSW has the d3 system on steroids.

    I'm guessing you see customization as some permanent thing that locks your character into a specific build? That or maybe you are thinking of a class system? Classes prevent peoplefrom getting all skills lime you are arguing against, but to me it seems far less customizable.


    Anyway, I give up. This is pointless, as neither of us is going to change our minds. I'm going to enjoy the game regardless, so it doesn't really matter to me.

     

    Exactly. A self-imposed restriction on available content is not a form of customization. You might prefer a subset over the other, but that doesn't change the fact that its complement exists and has different applications.

    The only dimension of true customization is the specialization page where you use SP to augment what you already own.

    Customization is by definition tailoring something to the individuals needs. You are given all skills eventually, but you need to distribute your SP according to how you want to play. SP define the customization in the game, not the decks.

     

    You might prefer DPS, but will require healing vs. certain mobs: If you have some kind of psychological malady that prevents you from choosing a healing deck, then it is your own personal restriction and not a degree of customization.

    Everybody in the game has the same skills as a DPS/Healer/Tank, you customize with your SP that passively affect each roles efficacy.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • VaultarVaultar adelaidePosts: 339Member

    The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. 

    It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.

    Looking forward to EQL and EQN.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by Vaultar

    The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. 

    It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.

    no EA is a publishing partner, like they did with the Orange Box and Eidos did with AOC.  Funcom is both the producer and the developer.  Its not the same thing as SWTOR where EA are THE publisher and also own bioware.

    That said it is a concern that EA might one day buy out Funcom, I would not have much faith in the game given such a turn of events, EA kill MMOs with absoloutley 0 support.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Originally posted by Vaultar

    The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. 

    It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.

    no EA is a publishing partner, like they did with the Orange Box and Eidos did with AOC.  Funcom is both the producer and the developer.  Its not the same thing as SWTOR where EA are THE publisher and also own bioware.

    That said it is a concern that EA might one day buy out Funcom, I would not have much faith in the game given such a turn of events, EA kill MMOs with absoloutley 0 support.

     Yep, exactly

    That would be my only concern as well

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1,096Member Common

    Im afraid to buy this game because Funcom is making it. You know..the creators of such wonderful and successful games as Anarchy Online and Age of Conan......

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
    Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
    Playing: Skyrim
    Following: The Repopulation
    I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
    ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Portland, ORPosts: 1,277Member


    Originally posted by PyrateLV
    Im afraid to buy this game because Funcom is making it. You know..the creators of such wonderful and successful games as Anarchy Online and Age of Conan......

    Interesting. I haven't heard this reasoning before....

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • NethriilNethriil OsloPosts: 178Member
    Originally posted by PyrateLV

    Im afraid to buy this game because Funcom is making it. You know..the creators of such wonderful and successful games as Anarchy Online and Age of Conan......

     

    I want a virtual sandbox world where nothing really happens, but i do want s house, which i could build anywhere. Wouldnt that be so Cool
  • Crunchy221Crunchy221 Trollsberg, ILPosts: 489Member
    Originally posted by Vaultar

    The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. 

    It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.

    This is the third time ive seen a post like this.

     

    The publisher of a game DOES NOT dictate to the developer...

     

    To make your argument even more incorrect than its bases that a lowly publish is going to dictate to the owners of the property when they launch it....they have pushed launch back...for now a 2nd time.

     

    Anyway this argument that EA is calling the shots is one of the less thoughtful arguments as to why to avoid this game that ive seen.

     

    If EA had been calling the shots, this game would have launched in Dec'11 and would have been AOC style...i have faith that the reduction of bugs and issues is slowly decreasing since launch is now predicted for july 3rd and they apparently are overhauling combat (including the addition of AOC's double tap dodges)

     

    Im not sure if its you who keeps posting this but please stop its a terrible argument and just flat out wrong.

  • kiernkiern Madison Heights, MIPosts: 435Member

    The focus on the story was/is not the problem with SWTOR.  WoW became as popular as it is by allowing people to play the game solo, and most MMO's have followed suit.  So clearly a lot of people solo in MMORPG's. Enhancing the storyline can only be beneficial, provided that there is still plenty for groups to do....and enough people around to form groups.

    I really like the focus on better story. And, in TSW, the focus is on the game's story, not really your own personal story (like in SWTOR). You are only a small part of the much bigger picture.  It puts more of the focus on the world and your faction rather than just you.  The focus on the society has the potential to give the game a more social aspect, and society/group focused content. we'll have to wait and see.  Not much point in judging a game based on brief exposure to a beginning zone of a game in beta.  Especially since most people solo at the beginning of pretty much all MMO's.

  • Johnie-MarzJohnie-Marz La Puente, CAPosts: 865Member
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Kinchyle
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. 

    Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.

     

    Seriously?!?!?

     

    Are you just one of those Funcom haters then? Because they have one of the best track records for MMOs unless you are a hater.

     

     

     Lol...just came across this gem. One of the best track records my ass.

    Or is this like in Fringe where you're from the other dimension where something like this might actually be even remotely close to being true?

    I'm interested in this game and am purchasing it myself but...yeah...can't blame anyone for being hesitant towards Funcom.

     

    OP is talking about Longevity. AO is one of the longest running MMO's out there and AOC is still going, so when it comes to longevity of games funcom does have a good record.

  • simplyawfulsimplyawful Los Alamos, CAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
     

    OP is talking about Longevity. AO is one of the longest running MMO's out there and AOC is still going, so when it comes to longevity of games funcom does have a good record.

    Well, the longevity of the subscription fee is the biggest issue for me. If this title converges quickly to f2p, then it will have felt like a waste.

    Of course you're right in that I was vague, but one usually implies the other.

     

     

  • RenoakuRenoaku Posts: 1,005Member Uncommon

    Nope not really I beleive this game if done properly is already better than SWTOR because of the character customizations.

    In addition to this it actually has a story line unlike SWTOR it feels like Derp after you leave there really isn't much of a story to me. In other words to me TSW felt more realistic than SWTOR.

    I just hope that FunCom allows people to freely customize their characters appearance like skin coloar and hairs without having to pay each time.

  • NethriilNethriil OsloPosts: 178Member
    Originally posted by simplyawful

    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
     

    OP is talking about Longevity. AO is one of the longest running MMO's out there and AOC is still going, so when it comes to longevity of games funcom does have a good record.

    Well, the longevity of the subscription fee is the biggest issue for me. If this title converges quickly to f2p, then it will have felt like a waste.

    Of course you're right in that I was vague, but one usually implies the other.

     

     

     

    You buy the game, you Get first month free, you decide if you want to continue subbing. Why would you feel it was a waste??
  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member
    Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Kinchyle
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. 

    Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.

     

    Seriously?!?!?

     

    Are you just one of those Funcom haters then? Because they have one of the best track records for MMOs unless you are a hater.

     

     

     Lol...just came across this gem. One of the best track records my ass.

    Or is this like in Fringe where you're from the other dimension where something like this might actually be even remotely close to being true?

    I'm interested in this game and am purchasing it myself but...yeah...can't blame anyone for being hesitant towards Funcom.

     

    OP is talking about Longevity. AO is one of the longest running MMO's out there and AOC is still going, so when it comes to longevity of games funcom does have a good record.

    Sorry but when you say track record it refers to the whole package. You don't get to pick and choose what it refers to and quite frankly while they have made significant strides in both games AoC still isn't a game I would say is anything spectacular. AO for its innovation and longevity I'll give. But AoC? Give me a break. How can you possibly say that game has good longevity considering the amount of players they had and where they're sitting at now? The only real impressive thing about that game is that when they restructured they actually brought some people in that essentially saved their abysmal launch woes and probably saved the game from going under completely.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • simplyawfulsimplyawful Los Alamos, CAPosts: 84Member
    Originally posted by Nethriil
     

     

    You buy the game, you Get first month free, you decide if you want to continue subbing. Why would you feel it was a waste??

     

    Or... as with AoC you wait until it goes f2p and save the purchase price at the very least.

  • BlackbrrdBlackbrrd KongsbergPosts: 811Member
    Originally posted by simplyawful
    Originally posted by Nethriil
     

     

    You buy the game, you Get first month free, you decide if you want to continue subbing. Why would you feel it was a waste??

     

    Or... as with AoC you wait until it goes f2p and save the purchase price at the very least.

    3 years after launch, yeah...

    Anyway, the purchase price of TSW is pretty low for an AAA game, so I really don't see the issue.

  • TROLL_HARDTROLL_HARD Caucasian/WhitePosts: 312Member

    I'm not afraid. I'm just not going to buy it at all. 

     

    I was already negatively disposed to the combination of Funcom putting out a game with EA. And from what I have been reading from people who have played the beta, I will just take a pass altogether.

  • SpiiderSpiider BinzPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    Swotor does not cast any kind of shadow. It's on its way to be f2p very soon.

    Knowing funcom this one will be like AOC + AO and will have limited but peristant audicence. Fucom knows how to make money out of what they put in. Even if it's only a small amount.

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • NethriilNethriil OsloPosts: 178Member
    Its a free world. Buy whatever game you want. This EA influencing Funcom is getting old. As long as EA doesnt buy funcom then they got nothing to say.
Sign In or Register to comment.