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Originally posted by simplyawful Originally posted by dubyahite
That may be their intent, but I still have doubt that everyone will go through the effort required to do it. Just because quests are repeatable doesn't mean that people are going to run around doing every quest over and over to get every skill. The more casual players most certainly won't in my opinion.
Let's throw that argument out though, and assume you are right. Every single person who plays the game will get every skill unlocked at some point. Or at least the vast majority will. That's fine, I can go along with that.
The real point of my argument, however, is that even if your average player has every skill available to them, the vast majority will go unused by any given player. Most people are simply not going to have enough builds rattling around in their heads that can utilize all 500 skills.
There are people out there who absolutely refuse to heal, for example. In lots of class based games there are classes capable of being healers or dps. SWTOR is a good recent example of this. Your average sith inquisitor was not a healer. I knew many that had zero interest in healing, they just wanted to zap stuff with lightning. Those people aren't going to be out there using every build possible.
Even within healers there are several different ways to make a healing build between the different weapons with healing. Not to mention the passives.
The same could be said for any role. People aren't going to use every dps spec out there just because they can. They will use what they like
I get your point. Yes people will be able to swap between roles at will, noone is locked into any one thing, but will they? That is the question that matters. Like I said, just because you can make a tanking build, doesn't mean you are a good tank.
First off, instead of levels there is degree of completion of the wheel i.e. the % of skills you've unlocked. That is essentially the level. You're assuming that not everybody will hit max level, which is kind of ridiculous. There aren't many western MMORPGs out where you can't hit max level reasonably, EQ was one but that was more than a decade ago.
It's also ridiculous to assume that people won't use more than one build. It defeats the entire purpose of the weapon system. You're supposed to use more than one set of two weapons in different situations depending on what is needed. Specialization in this game exists to some degree, but is not the core of the game. The game is classless precisely because of that.
You're not supposed to specialize heavily like in other games, you're supposed to adapt to what is needed. The combat is probably simple for that reason as well, since you're supposed to master different roles.
If you refuse to heal, then it's fine, because everybody else can heal. If you refuse to tank, that's fine too, because everybody else can tank. The same holds for dps. You CAN do everything, but you're not forced. You only make it harder on yourself if you want to specialize in one role though...
I understand all of this stuff.
I'm not saying people won't use more than one build. I'm saying that they won't use ALL builds. This is how their character will be different than others. Between the builds they are comfortable with, and the gear they have, they will only be proficient with a certain number of builds.
I'm also not saying that everyone will specialize in one role. I'm saying that there are things that they will like to do and things that they don't like to do.
Your last paragraph is making my point for me actually. Remember we are talking about differentiating your character from other characters (or at least I was). The skills/builds/gear you use will determine how your character is different from others, that's all I was saying.
It's not as simple as saying that every person will have access to every skill. What makes them different is what skills they choose to use, as I have said all along
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Originally posted by dubyahite
What some people will, or will not do is irrelevant. What is relevant is what features are actually offered by the game.
If I make you a sandwich and you throw away everything but the bread, it doesn't mean that every element of the sandwich was a point of customization.
SWToR doen't have a shadow. It IS a shadow of what it could have been.
Originally posted by Kinchyle Originally posted by Kyleran No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.
Are you just one of those Funcom haters then? Because they have one of the best track records for MMOs unless you are a hater.
Lol...just came across this gem. One of the best track records my ass.
Or is this like in Fringe where you're from the other dimension where something like this might actually be even remotely close to being true?
I'm interested in this game and am purchasing it myself but...yeah...can't blame anyone for being hesitant towards Funcom.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by dubyahite This system is similar to D3's skill system In a way, only with far more skills. I know I have experienced a lot of customization of my character in that game. I have used builds/gear that drastically alter my play style many times over again. To me, TSW has the d3 system on steroids. I'm guessing you see customization as some permanent thing that locks your character into a specific build? That or maybe you are thinking of a class system? Classes prevent peoplefrom getting all skills lime you are arguing against, but to me it seems far less customizable. Anyway, I give up. This is pointless, as neither of us is going to change our minds. I'm going to enjoy the game regardless, so it doesn't really matter to me.
Exactly. A self-imposed restriction on available content is not a form of customization. You might prefer a subset over the other, but that doesn't change the fact that its complement exists and has different applications.
The only dimension of true customization is the specialization page where you use SP to augment what you already own.
Customization is by definition tailoring something to the individuals needs. You are given all skills eventually, but you need to distribute your SP according to how you want to play. SP define the customization in the game, not the decks.
You might prefer DPS, but will require healing vs. certain mobs: If you have some kind of psychological malady that prevents you from choosing a healing deck, then it is your own personal restriction and not a degree of customization.
Everybody in the game has the same skills as a DPS/Healer/Tank, you customize with your SP that passively affect each roles efficacy.
The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it.
It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.
Originally posted by Vaultar The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.
no EA is a publishing partner, like they did with the Orange Box and Eidos did with AOC. Funcom is both the producer and the developer. Its not the same thing as SWTOR where EA are THE publisher and also own bioware.
That said it is a concern that EA might one day buy out Funcom, I would not have much faith in the game given such a turn of events, EA kill MMOs with absoloutley 0 support.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Originally posted by Vaultar The game has EA behind it as a publisher meaning strict deadlines which basically guarantees that the game will be released in an unpolished state with basic features missing in it. It happened to SWOTR and will happen to this game.
That would be my only concern as well
Im afraid to buy this game because Funcom is making it. You know..the creators of such wonderful and successful games as Anarchy Online and Age of Conan......
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFTPlaying: SkyrimFollowing: The RepopulationI want a Virtual World, not just a Game.ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Originally posted by PyrateLVIm afraid to buy this game because Funcom is making it. You know..the creators of such wonderful and successful games as Anarchy Online and Age of Conan......
Interesting. I haven't heard this reasoning before....
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
This is the third time ive seen a post like this.
The publisher of a game DOES NOT dictate to the developer...
To make your argument even more incorrect than its bases that a lowly publish is going to dictate to the owners of the property when they launch it....they have pushed launch back...for now a 2nd time.
Anyway this argument that EA is calling the shots is one of the less thoughtful arguments as to why to avoid this game that ive seen.
If EA had been calling the shots, this game would have launched in Dec'11 and would have been AOC style...i have faith that the reduction of bugs and issues is slowly decreasing since launch is now predicted for july 3rd and they apparently are overhauling combat (including the addition of AOC's double tap dodges)
Im not sure if its you who keeps posting this but please stop its a terrible argument and just flat out wrong.
The focus on the story was/is not the problem with SWTOR. WoW became as popular as it is by allowing people to play the game solo, and most MMO's have followed suit. So clearly a lot of people solo in MMORPG's. Enhancing the storyline can only be beneficial, provided that there is still plenty for groups to do....and enough people around to form groups.
I really like the focus on better story. And, in TSW, the focus is on the game's story, not really your own personal story (like in SWTOR). You are only a small part of the much bigger picture. It puts more of the focus on the world and your faction rather than just you. The focus on the society has the potential to give the game a more social aspect, and society/group focused content. we'll have to wait and see. Not much point in judging a game based on brief exposure to a beginning zone of a game in beta. Especially since most people solo at the beginning of pretty much all MMO's.
Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by Kinchyle Originally posted by Kyleran No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.
OP is talking about Longevity. AO is one of the longest running MMO's out there and AOC is still going, so when it comes to longevity of games funcom does have a good record.
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Well, the longevity of the subscription fee is the biggest issue for me. If this title converges quickly to f2p, then it will have felt like a waste.
Of course you're right in that I was vague, but one usually implies the other.
Nope not really I beleive this game if done properly is already better than SWTOR because of the character customizations.
In addition to this it actually has a story line unlike SWTOR it feels like Derp after you leave there really isn't much of a story to me. In other words to me TSW felt more realistic than SWTOR.
I just hope that FunCom allows people to freely customize their characters appearance like skin coloar and hairs without having to pay each time.
Originally posted by simplyawful Originally posted by Johnie-Marz
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz Originally posted by Wickedjelly Originally posted by Kinchyle Originally posted by Kyleran No, I'm afraid to buy TSW because it's made by Funcom. Definintely holding off until post-launch to see what sort of quality they manage to deliver.
Sorry but when you say track record it refers to the whole package. You don't get to pick and choose what it refers to and quite frankly while they have made significant strides in both games AoC still isn't a game I would say is anything spectacular. AO for its innovation and longevity I'll give. But AoC? Give me a break. How can you possibly say that game has good longevity considering the amount of players they had and where they're sitting at now? The only real impressive thing about that game is that when they restructured they actually brought some people in that essentially saved their abysmal launch woes and probably saved the game from going under completely.
Originally posted by Nethriil
Or... as with AoC you wait until it goes f2p and save the purchase price at the very least.
Originally posted by simplyawful Originally posted by Nethriil
3 years after launch, yeah...
Anyway, the purchase price of TSW is pretty low for an AAA game, so I really don't see the issue.
I'm not afraid. I'm just not going to buy it at all.
I was already negatively disposed to the combination of Funcom putting out a game with EA. And from what I have been reading from people who have played the beta, I will just take a pass altogether.
Swotor does not cast any kind of shadow. It's on its way to be f2p very soon.
Knowing funcom this one will be like AOC + AO and will have limited but peristant audicence. Fucom knows how to make money out of what they put in. Even if it's only a small amount.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.