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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Bioware Rocked By Layoffs

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  • Trol1Trol1 Kissimmee, FLPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by Kabaal

    I'd have thought scaling back after an MMO has launched would be normal practice. I'm just guessing though as i really have no clue.

    I think it is actually. Making an MMO is a huge scale task and it probably takes a smaller team to handle the DLC patches for the game.

    It is only happening for "Failing" MMO's!

    Blizzard kept hiring people. SOE kept hiring people (until recent years, when their games went downhill, they started mass lay offs).  Trion kept hiring people!

    When an MMO is a huge success and doing well with steady or even rising subs, they don't have to fire people.

    The excess people will then often be reassigned to other projects. Just like what happened at Blizzard, still happens at Trion and used to happen at SOE.

    But as SW:TOR is tanking so badly, with large investors threatening EA, EA stock dwinling down, etc..... EA is cutting losses by laying off at least 200 people within Bioware: Austin (which is solely dedicated to SW:TOR) !

    That is not scaling back, that is swingin a huge axe, like they did with Mythic after Warhammer Online tanked and then put the game in maintenance mode.

    SW:TOR, just like was the case with Warhammer Online, needs a huge amount of resources to turn it around and fix it up!

    But as we all know EA all too well, they are not willing to and are already taking the easy way out by cutting their losses on yet another "failed" MMO!

    Take it for what you will.... but that's just how it is.

    Only flaw in your logic: BW is running a second location that is exclusively dedicated to SWTOR: BioWare Galway.

    Do you really think a company will say "well, we know our game is crashing and burning, so we kick out most of our development staff, but to keep up appearances we are going to keep a fully staffed CSR center running"?

    C'mon man, be real: CSRs are the easiest thing to cut wih a failing game as at that point you shouldn't really be caring about putting a smile on your customer's face but rather to salvage as much money as possible.

  • DaedalEVEDaedalEVE Aberdeen, MDPosts: 39Member

    Just read "Catcher in the Rye"

    Must Kill EA.... Must Kill EA.... Must Kill EA....

  • illutianillutian There, OHPosts: 217Member
    Originally posted by Paragus1

    Hopefully the people losing their jobs are the ones responsible for the horrid design decisions that killed any chance for lengevity this game had.

    Hopefully, all that "Artistic Integrity" went out the door too....

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by Kabaal

    I'd have thought scaling back after an MMO has launched would be normal practice. I'm just guessing though as i really have no clue.

    I think it is actually. Making an MMO is a huge scale task and it probably takes a smaller team to handle the DLC patches for the game.

    It is only happening for "Failing" MMO's!

    Blizzard kept hiring people. SOE kept hiring people (until recent years, when their games went downhill, they started mass lay offs).  Trion kept hiring people!

    When an MMO is a huge success and doing well with steady or even rising subs, they don't have to fire people.

    The excess people will then often be reassigned to other projects. Just like what happened at Blizzard, still happens at Trion and used to happen at SOE.

    But as SW:TOR is tanking so badly, with large investors threatening EA, EA stock dwinling down, etc..... EA is cutting losses by laying off at least 200 people within Bioware: Austin (which is solely dedicated to SW:TOR) !

    That is not scaling back, that is swingin a huge axe, like they did with Mythic after Warhammer Online tanked and then put the game in maintenance mode.

    SW:TOR, just like was the case with Warhammer Online, needs a huge amount of resources to turn it around and fix it up!

    But as we all know EA all too well, they are not willing to and are already taking the easy way out by cutting their losses on yet another "failed" MMO!

    Take it for what you will.... but that's just how it is.

    Just a question I've been wondering from reading your post over the past few months.... are you really screaming everything you're saying? I've never seen someone use so many explanation points in my life...lol.

     

    I do agree though, the game is not doing very well. I finally left and while I won't bad mouth the game, I do think it needs some help. I had a good time playing, but have moved on as many others it seems. 

  • wgc01wgc01 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 209Member

    Maybe it's time that companies step back and realize the wow model is getting old and tired, lets look at it strip away what wow put out and you have easy mode eq under all that fluff, the core of mmo play has been around since the late 90's.

    I still play Tor and enjoy it, they have a great theme park game, the downside to total theme parks is you play through the world you never really feel like your toon lives in the world, what the whole mmo genre needs is diveristy, theme parks wiith sandbox elements, for a simple example.

    I read lots of forums, what I see is a general, burn out on the current mmo model. as far as Tor goes they will merge severs put out some content, and as long as subs can stay around 500k which EA said is very profitable, it is not going any where anytime soon, now if it falls well below that 500k mark, I see free to play as a last resort to save it. 

    I hope othter companies watching this, step back and say it's time for some new mmo thinking.

     

  • CrunkJuice2CrunkJuice2 asdasd, INPosts: 568Member

    or its time that mmo players step back and relize they cant have years of content in a fresh mmo

    i mean,thats part of the problem with swtor.people came to it,expected years of content and it being bug free.and they didnt get it and unsubbed,and now the people who made the game are suffering

    eather way,im not really gonna defend bioware.cuz in my opinion,swtor was just a quick cash grab but it didnt really help anything that the majority of people never really gave swtor the chance to become a decent mmo

    and its not just the wow model in my opinion thats making mmos bad.mmos went from the grindy timesinks that you could play for hour upon hour.to the casuals games,where anyone but casuals would be bored to tears after a couple hours of playing

     

     

  • strathadamstrathadam Miramichi, NBPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Leoghan
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    so layoffs are normal ...

    Ok so how are they going to cope with that engine with even less people working on the game? They need to call in the National Guard and start bringing in hobos to get more hands on that code!

    It's taking them forever just to do stuff that other games have as basic features.

    They just gimped the moped!

    It really depends on who is getting let go. 

    I'm not defending SWTOR, it is a mediocre game at best with little incentive to keep people subbed, but these comments of - this isn't normal it is the sign of the games apocalypse are just silly. 

    Someone mentioned the EVE has only grown since its development, but they negelcted to mention that the company that developed it was tiny, Bioware is not, it has several branches in different locatons and countries. You can't just shift someone from Austin to Montreal, Edmonton, Fairfax or Galway. 

    Given the economy in the state it is in, and the fact that they are having retentions issues, this is no surprise, but it is unlikely the sign of SWTOR's undoing. It will never be a WoW killer, but if you've ever read my comments on the subject you'll see that I don't believe there is such a thing, WoW was the MMO anomaly and no game will ever achieve what it did, for better or worse. I would imagine in box sales alone SWTOR made ROI, and I imagine it is still a healthy functioning game (business-wise)from the subs, even if they never hit 1 mil. Look at SWG and how long it survied after it was gutted. Star Wars fan empitomize the "Shut up and take my money" meme. 

    Yes, but SWTOR should have an expansionist vision - but it doesn't - the SWTOR 'expansions' are relatively small. I don't get the same sense of vision from BioWare as I do from CCP.

    CCP started off with a handful of people, now it's a medium-sized firm. They have laid some people off, but the overall trend and intension is to make Eve bigger and better - in significant ways.

    For example, Eve will include walking on planets in the form of DUST by the end of the year (and this has always been on the drawing board for nearly 10 years!). In contrast, BioWare have never considered expanding their space combat - so laying people off becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


    Agreed. CCP may not always reach their goals, but for the most part it's because they tend to set their own bar pretty damn high.

    Then again, when an expansion is somewhat less than stellar... *cough* Apocrypha *cough*...the reaction from the playerbase is often enough reason in and of itself to stick around.

  • Trol1Trol1 Kissimmee, FLPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by wgc01

    Maybe it's time that companies step back and realize the wow model is getting old and tired, lets look at it strip away what wow put out and you have easy mode eq under all that fluff, the core of mmo play has been around since the late 90's.

    I still play Tor and enjoy it, they have a great theme park game, the downside to total theme parks is you play through the world you never really feel like your toon lives in the world, what the whole mmo genre needs is diveristy, theme parks wiith sandbox elements, for a simple example.

    I read lots of forums, what I see is a general, burn out on the current mmo model. as far as Tor goes they will merge severs put out some content, and as long as subs can stay around 500k which EA said is very profitable, it is not going any where anytime soon, now if it falls well below that 500k mark, I see free to play as a last resort to save it. 

    I hope othter companies watching this, step back and say it's time for some new mmo thinking.

     

    Maybe the right way would be to go retro?

    I mean how many of today's gamers actually know how good old school, pre-WoW MMORPGing actually felt... would be a new experience to them...

    hm... just wondering if we should rather bring back 80s fashion than 90s fashion to go with the retro... ;-)

  • Trol1Trol1 Kissimmee, FLPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

    or its time that mmo players step back and relize they cant have years of content in a fresh mmo

    i mean,thats part of the problem with swtor.people came to it,expected years of content and it being bug free.and they didnt get it and unsubbed,and now the people who made the game are suffering

    eather way,im not really gonna defend bioware.cuz in my opinion,swtor was just a quick cash grab but it didnt really help anything that the majority of people never really gave swtor the chance to become a decent mmo

    and its not just the wow model in my opinion thats making mmos bad.mmos went from the grindy timesinks that you could play for hour upon hour.to the casuals games,where anyone but casuals would be bored to tears after a couple hours of playing

     

     

    Hear hear! Or here here! Or hear here! Or here hear! which ever combination is right, you are pretty right on the dot, especially regarding the grindy timesinks you could play for hours: you may not get much out of them, but the were fun!

    Only thing I don't quite agree that SWTOR was a quick cash grab. Well, obviously it turned into one, but I think the problem was that somewhere in the BW/EA construct the actual smarts of the game were pushed aside in favor of going for the quick cash.

    I mean is it me or was the overall hype regarding the alts system in SWTOR not really very loud?

    Which IMO is where the problem rests: if the game had been sold as a game that is all about creating alts, then the sales numbers may have been smaller as it wouldn't have been your generic MMO setup.

    But you would also have had less grievers who came in expecting one thing and instead finding something else.

    Yet of course all of these people did buy the box, gave BW/EA their money, and all is sort of well on the business end ;-)

  • illutianillutian There, OHPosts: 217Member
    Originally posted by Trol1
    Originally posted by wgc01

     

     

    Maybe the right way would be to go retro?

    I mean how many of today's gamers actually know how good old school, pre-WoW MMORPGing actually felt... would be a new experience to them...

    hm... just wondering if we should rather bring back 80s fashion than 90s fashion to go with the retro... ;-)

    So long as it's different enough from WoW to not be WoW, but not too different that it's not like WoW.  :P

     

    BTW: I'd prefer more hardcore MMOs

    ----

     

    In reality, the only thing that would revive the MMO Industry would be a world like that seen in " .hack//sign " (ie a Fully Interactive Virtual Reality). No more buttons...not more mice...you ARE the character.

    Note: I reference .hack//sign because it's the only anime (to-date) that I've seen, that takes place in a MMO game. So, if you've seen it, you'd know immediately the vision I have for the future of all gaming.....hellz ya, "MineCraft VR"...One-more-block!

    "Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by CrunkJuice2
    or its time that mmo players step back and relize they cant have years of content in a fresh mmoi mean,thats part of the problem with swtor.people came to it,expected years of content and it being bug free.and they didnt get it and unsubbed,and now the people who made the game are sufferingeather way,im not really gonna defend bioware.cuz in my opinion,swtor was just a quick cash grab but it didnt really help anything that the majority of people never really gave swtor the chance to become a decent mmoand its not just the wow model in my opinion thats making mmos bad.mmos went from the grindy timesinks that you could play for hour upon hour.to the casuals games,where anyone but casuals would be bored to tears after a couple hours of playing
    The "WoW model" can work if, and only if, the game is actually ...you know ...good.


    TOR launch with horribly buggy end game everything and has done little to improve it since launch.


    TOR and its players are suffering because of BioWare's arrogance and neglect.


  • IllyssiaIllyssia LondonPosts: 1,524Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    TOR and its players are suffering because of BioWare's arrogance and neglect.

     

     

    Actually the story is very missleading as it appears now that Bioware have been restructuring and have asssigned DA3 development team to developp more content for SWTOR. Basically DA3 seem to have been put on the backburner by EA, and SWTOR, which they say is profitable for them, and no real reason to doubt that, gets part of its development team.

    It's the problem with sites like mmorpg, they post hyperboble stories when the truth seems mearely to be restructuring, probably  as a result of Bioware/EA wanting to get out of Dragon Age now, and shake up SWTOR launch team post-launch.

     

    http://www.develop-online.net/news/40736/Pachter-Dragon-Age-3-devs-loaned-to-SWTOR

     

     

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Kabaal

    I'd have thought scaling back after an MMO has launched would be normal practice. I'm just guessing though as i really have no clue.

    Yeah it is normal practice. After launch most MMOs operate with a fraction of the initial staff, those people then either move on to other projects for the same company, or if there are no more new projects to move to they get laid off.

  • Trol1Trol1 Kissimmee, FLPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by Illyssia
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    TOR and its players are suffering because of BioWare's arrogance and neglect.

     

     

    Actually the story is very missleading as it appears now that Bioware have been restructuring and have asssigned DA3 development team to developp more content for SWTOR. Basically DA3 seem to have been put on the backburner by EA, and SWTOR, which they say is profitable for them, and no real reason to doubt that, gets part of its development team.

    It's the problem with sites like mmorpg, they post hyperboble stories when the truth seems mearely to be restructuring, probably  as a result of Bioware/EA wanting to get out of Dragon Age now, and shake up SWTOR launch team post-launch.

     

    http://www.develop-online.net/news/40736/Pachter-Dragon-Age-3-devs-loaned-to-SWTOR

     

     

    People need to understand that BioWare is more than BioWare Austin.

    It's like saying the IBM Campus in Greenock, Scotland, Uk laid off 200 people, OMG, IBM must be going broke!

    BioWare is a huge pool of resources - read creative manpower and support structure - that was not focused on one project. 

    Internal analysis may now have shown them that a) some of these additional projects should have their priority downgraded, which b) would actually may create "doubles" taking care of the same task.

    Now, as harsh as it sounds, and of course assuming that this article is correct, yes, letting go of some of the staff in Austin makes perfect sense: if SWTOR by now requires less work due to an existing resource base (textures, game mechanics, models, etc.) that allows easy access/use, why not get rid of those guys who would have to start learning everything from the bottom up on "that next new big game" and rather shift those who already know all about that game in to handle the "easy" SWTOR jobs?

    May suck but big corp life ain't no charity ;-) 

  • skydiver12skydiver12 burgundPosts: 432Member


    Originally posted by Trol1

    Now, as harsh as it sounds, and of course assuming that this article is correct, yes, letting go of some of the staff in Austin makes perfect sense: if SWTOR by now requires less work due to an existing resource base (textures, game mechanics, models, etc.) that allows easy access/use, why not get rid of those guys who would have to start learning everything from the bottom up on "that next new big game" and rather shift those who already know all about that game in to handle the "easy" SWTOR jobs?


    Now usually i would agree, but we are talking SWTOR here, a MMO which lacks FEATURES, and the included ones are barebones which need COREWORK to shape up.
    Whoever comes forom DA3 can't just pick up the needed work for those barebone features.
    Or are you implying DA3 used that awfull texture atlas, hero abormination too?

    This indicates:

    1. They do not work on this stuff but still think releasing another Flashpoint and an Operation will save this game when there is no deepth or anyrthing to it. (with copy pasted textures / rooms and a quick 3 row VO work slapped over it)

    2. They moved 5 managment guys over to swtor and fired all the real code / art workers of DA3 to make it a positive spin for both DA3 and SWTOR.


    Anyway. I fail to see anything "normal" too it. Especially with the high horse announcment of no lay offs earlier and the current state of the game.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Kabaal

    I'd have thought scaling back after an MMO has launched would be normal practice. I'm just guessing though as i really have no clue.

    Yeah it is normal practice. After launch most MMOs operate with a fraction of the initial staff, those people then either move on to other projects for the same company, or if there are no more new projects to move to they get laid off.

    /agree, however BW specifically said they would keep the staff at the same level through the end of the year, and then perhaps grow the team larger.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • delateurdelateur Spokane, WAPosts: 156Member

    Things to take from this:

    1) If SWTOR and other games under the umbrella of EA's Font of Fail have resulted in layoffs, it's for one reason alone: The games didn't do well enough. Less profit = less money to pay staff. Answer: Lay off a bunch of "lesser" employees so the managers can keep their jobs and make more bad decisions. It's the problem with companies that lack accountability and have little to no moral integrity. When accountability exists, you see a CEO get fired, or someone from the upper echelons of management. 

    2) If you hate seeing things like this happen, you have to start being more vocal in places it matters. Most of us think that EA is taking gaming in the wrong direction, and that's good, because it is! If you want to shut them down, stop supporting them! Make it clear to developers that they need to find a new publisher, or start using Kickstarter, or whatever it takes to NOT be forced into untenable situations with companies like EA that don't give two spits for the creative process and the concept of flexibility. 

     

     
  • XeridianXeridian Dallas, TXPosts: 22Member

    This is nothing close to the same thing that NCsoft experienced with Aion... lol 

    This is due to Pressure from EA and Lucas Arts, to release the game way before it was ready and to make design decisions that Bioware clearly knew were wrong. 

    Aion suffered from an inept Dev team treying to rehash Korean Coding and scripting to make it Western Proof and promising Patches and full updates at a certain time but not releasing them till a year passed the promised ETA. 

    I really can't blame NCsoft for trying to get what they could out of a crappy Contract deal that wasn't realized, until it was too late. NC Soft isn't perfect, but they are one of the better ones, especially for MMOs. After all, they give Arenanet total reign. No your info before piping off bullshit you clearly are to young to understand. Take a business class and read once in  a while. You might actually learn something.  :D

     

    image

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member

    If not being able to find a group for, well, ANYTHING after the first month or two wasn't bad enough, the thing that I really hate the MOST about SWTOR is the moderators in the Forums. If ANYBODY needed to be fired, it was the pack of mods/nazi's they must hired from the WoW firings a while back or something.

    Anyone every try posting in there? 1 out of three topics, even the ones I was just REPLYING to, were getting shut down for some of the most asinine reasons. . .

    I mean, mods have been getting worse and worse over the years, but I'd have to say that, hand's down, the forums of SWTOR make me feel like I'm walking down an alley in the middle of the day and some Nazi's pop up from behind garbage cans demanding my papers please, or else, like, every five minutes. . .

    And I mean they will shut down a topic even if it has many pages, and someone comes in an makes 1 single reply they don't like, instead of removing the offending reply, they lock the whole thread down. . .

    So any topics you might want to make over there designed to spark a conversation? Don't even bother.

    Also, I hardly play anymore, not because of the awesome content, but the lack of anyone to tackle it with anymore. . .fun while it barely lasted, I guess. . .

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Tonight's Top Ten list comes from the home office in Austin, Texas. It's the

     

    TOP TEN DAILY ACTIVITIES OF THE SWTOR TEAM

    uh #10.  Re-watch secret cam video of Lacey Chabert doing the Mako love scene VO

    #9. Order 100 Pizzas to be delivered to EA Home Office with card signed, 'With Love, ArenaNet'

    #8. Play beta of Tiger Woods Golf game

    #7. Stare at telemetry displaying spacebar usage during cutscenes while listening to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"

    #6. Hide Daniel Erickson's shake weight in the QA office

    #5. Go through old stacks of Vogue to find ideas for new endgame armor

    #4. Bring food and drinks to design team "throne room" while avoiding Gorgeous Georg's advances

    #3. Amusing game of 'Whack a Thread' with the community guys

    #2. Watching episodes of New Jersey Housewives to find ideas for new endgame armor

    and the #1 Daily Activity of the SWTOR Team .....

    Trolling forums under the name Potatohelmet1313

     

     

     

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Tonight's Top Ten list comes from the home office in Austin, Texas. It's the

     

    TOP TEN DAILY ACTIVITIES OF THE SWTOR TEAM

    uh #10.  Re-watch secret cam video of Lacey Chabert doing the Mako love scene VO

    #9. Order 100 Pizzas to be delivered to EA Home Office with card signed, 'With Love, ArenaNet'

    #8. Play beta of Tiger Woods Golf game

    #7. Stare at telemetry displaying spacebar usage during cutscenes while listening to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"

    #6. Hide Daniel Erickson's shake weight in the QA office

    #5. Go through old stacks of Vogue to find ideas for new endgame armor

    #4. Bring food and drinks to design team "throne room" while avoiding Gorgeous Georg's advances

    #3. Amusing game of 'Whack a Thread' with the community guys

    #2. Watching episodes of New Jersey Housewives to find ideas for new endgame armor

    and the #1 Daily Activity of the SWTOR Team .....

    Trolling forums under the name Potatohelmet1313

     

    Don't know why, but I like it :D

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member

    I wonder which company will be retarded enough to bite EA's carrot next. . .

  • Half_Man_Half_ToonHalf_Man_Half_Toon NO, CAPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Bleakmage
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    Tonight's Top Ten list comes from the home office in Austin, Texas. It's the

     

    TOP TEN DAILY ACTIVITIES OF THE SWTOR TEAM

    uh #10.  Re-watch secret cam video of Lacey Chabert doing the Mako love scene VO

    #9. Order 100 Pizzas to be delivered to EA Home Office with card signed, 'With Love, ArenaNet'

    #8. Play beta of Tiger Woods Golf game

    #7. Stare at telemetry displaying spacebar usage during cutscenes while listening to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon"

    #6. Hide Daniel Erickson's shake weight in the QA office

    #5. Go through old stacks of Vogue to find ideas for new endgame armor

    #4. Bring food and drinks to design team "throne room" while avoiding Gorgeous Georg's advances

    #3. Amusing game of 'Whack a Thread' with the community guys

    #2. Watching episodes of New Jersey Housewives to find ideas for new endgame armor

    and the #1 Daily Activity of the SWTOR Team .....

    Trolling forums under the name Potatohelmet1313

     

    Don't know why, but I like it :D

    Hey guys dont be mean the Guys at SWTOR are passing thru some hard times man I feel bad for them and the ones that loss ther job I hope everything for them goes good for them and wish them the best of luck I got a feeling SWTOR will come back but I dont currently play the game I want to but I cant decide becouse I bought the Collectors Edition.

  • BleakmageBleakmage Plattsburgh, NYPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by chelao I dont currently play the game I want to but I cant decide becouse I bought the Collectors Edition.

    Say again?

  • Half_Man_Half_ToonHalf_Man_Half_Toon NO, CAPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by Bleakmage
    Originally posted by chelao I dont currently play the game I want to but I cant decide becouse I bought the Collectors Edition.

    Say again?

    yes I bought Collectors Edition becouse I love star wars movies and not neccesserie SWTOR and im not currently subscribe but I been thinking of subscribing and why becouse thers no good MMO's right now at this moment to be playing other than Guild Wars 2 that already bought and play the beta in so you may be laughing becouse I bought it and thers another reason why I am not subscribe currently on SWTOR reasons I quite is becouse thers lots and lots of people complaining about the game and makes me not play it becouse I am worry about playing SWTOR with people saying bad Stuff on You Tube and other places like google but at the same time I have seen Reviews on IGN, GameSpot, G4,MMOHUT and also MMORPG and they gave SWTOR a good review so I am wondering is this game good or not?  I will say SWTOR just came out and I think it has potential but I dont want to be ther or play it currently becouse that Potential is not ther yet and I could be playing other games like Planet Side 2 and Guild Wars 2 or Mechwarrior Online. So we Have to wait and see what Happens To SWTOR. 

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