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Even if the game was/is the best game of the year!

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sk8chalif

    Here a video of WoodenPotatoes.http://youtu.be/aCl0D2BJGYw

    talking about Ncsoft and gw2

    Good video and thank you for the information. I like WP!

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by grimfall

    No, I am just illustrating that corporations don't just pick up games for the fun of it.  There's a reason that Arenanet was bought out by NCSoft, either they didn't have the money to produce another game, or the owners were greedy sellouts... which do you like?  If everyone was beating down their door to fund GW2 as a publisher, they would have done that and maintained control of their company.  That's how the industry works.

    Not sure what industry you're familiar with, but that situation almost never happens in gaming, period. To the best of my knowledge, the only big gaming studio still around that hasn't been bought out would be Valve.

    Furthermore, they entered the partnership because it seemed like the best fit for them. You may recall that Anet's founders were actually in charge of NCSoft West. Could they have made a game with the scope & content GW2 offers w/ out financial backing? Probably not. It puts nearly all other MMOs to shame (the amount of stuff they've packed into the game). However they weren't forced into taking that route, it was a choice.

    As you say, corportations don't just pick up games for the fun of it, most publishers place some very confining strings attached to their purse. As a publisher, NCSoft has been shockingly hands-off with GW2, and it shows. This may change, it may not, but pretending like the partnership NCSoft and Anet has is akin to an EA takeover is a bit absurd at this point.

    1. [U] Bioware says hi. Bought out.

    2. [U] Funcom says hi. Independent.

  • IrusIrus Wichita, KSPosts: 774Member
    Originally posted by Distopia

    People constantly say there is no Bioware outside of name, as well as say the same for any company owned by a not so popular entity around here.

    BioWare has proved that with what they did with SW:TOR (and possibly Dragon Age. Or Mass Effect. Or what have you).

    The question is not who technically owns who. The question is who calls the shots.

    Smart publishes get the fuck out of development and leave developers the fuck alone, even if they could try ordering them around. We do not know if that is true for the NCsoft-ArenaNet relationship, we will see that when GW2 releases. There are potentially publishers who are good at management but I don't know if those actually exist.

    Companies work under publishers all the time, yet not all of them release clearly publisher driven games. Some games turn out just fine and that's because the publishers understand the value of the developers and do not bother them.

    For instance, EA has a very bad track history with weak releases and rushed launches because they have a very throw-around policy. Most publishers are half-and-half. They rush the crappy studios and don't bother the good studios.

    Some publisher-developer interactions actually cause significant rifts in companies.

    For instance, Piranha Bytes used to work under JoWood on their Gothic series. Gothic 1/2 went fine then JoWood decided to rush Gothic 3. Piranha got mad, told JoWood to GTFO and got a different publisher. They lost the Gothic license and worked on Risen instead under DeepSilver. This indicates that developers are not necessarily driven only by the publisher's demands.

    Even a bought studio still retains independent developers, and the same interactions can continue. They can drop everything and leave. Who owns who is rather irrelevant. What matters is what occurs internally. We do not know what occurs internally at all. I see no indication that NCsoft is influencing Arena.net much atm.

    We will see when GW2 comes out. If GW2 is a really bad game, we can blame Arena.net or NCsoft, probably NCsoft. If GW2 is a good game, we can either say that Arena.net is still relatively independent, or that NCsoft has really amazing management (unlikely). I personally do not recall NCsoft acting terribly idiotic. Then again, they don't have many titles.

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon

    They were bought out before the production of Guild Wars.. when they had a very small team. Of course they needed money.

    First of all, no they were not bought out before GW was in production.  They were founded in 2000 and bought out at the end of 2002.

    Secondly, you don't seem to understand that developers do not have to be owned by publishers, though the market has been moving that way.  There are still plenty independent game devleopers who sign on with publishers to publish their titles.  Arenanet, if they had enough demand for their game, could have done the same thing, just like 38 Studios could do the same thing. 

    Since they didn't, since they yielded control of their company so that they could get their game finsihed and published, indicates that there was not a great demand among publishers for their game.

  • IrusIrus Wichita, KSPosts: 774Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    I am interested. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.  Did you assume I wasn't because I said NCsoft is running the show? I'm cautious of the fact that this game is owned, produced, and published by a korean game maker.

    I don't think you understand the meaining of the word "if".

  • clumsytoes44clumsytoes44 portland, ORPosts: 463Member

    Very simple concept here, If you don't like the game for ANY reason don't buy it, or play it incase of F2P game's. Nuff said.

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by pacov
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by Irus
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    I don't have any grudges, but AION was heralded as the second coming too. People were deleting there WoW toons and stuff like "F U BLizzard!!" It turned out not to be all that original to put it mildly. I also wonder how they are going to handle bots. They were rampant in AION.  Customer service is a concern aswell. I almost never need them, but when I do, I want my issue to be handled right.

     

    Maybe you should stop concentrating on what other people think so much?

     

    If you're not interested in a game, that's fine. 

    Think how you want... 

     

    I am interested. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.  Did you assume I wasn't because I said NCsoft is running the show? I'm cautious of the fact that this game is owned, produced, and published by a korean game maker.

     

    Again  OP is well within his right to say "I wont give NCsoft my money"

    incorrect please stop making a fool out of yourself

    Now I'm a fool?

     

     

    Definition for video game producer:

    Web definitions:
    A video game producer is the person in charge of overseeing development of a video game..
     
  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member
    Originally posted by grimfall

    They were bought out before the production of Guild Wars.. when they had a very small team. Of course they needed money.

    First of all, no they were not bought out before GW was in production.  They were founded in 2000 and bought out at the end of 2002.

    Secondly, you don't seem to understand that developers do not have to be owned by publishers, though the market has been moving that way.  There are still plenty independent game devleopers who sign on with publishers to publish their titles.  Arenanet, if they had enough demand for their game, could have done the same thing, just like 38 Studios could do the same thing. 

    Since they didn't, since they yielded control of their company so that they could get their game finsihed and published, indicates that there was not a great demand among publishers for their game.

    yeah and we see where all the self supporting indie games end up these days... back then it was even worse because the market was much much smaller. And yes pardon my misspelling I ment to say during the production... take it for what you want

    Edit: just look at how the game looked in 2003 and it would give you a rough idea of how it might have looked in 2001-2002. Arenanet would not come even close to what they made with all that extra funding from a publisher.

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Irus
    Originally posted by Distopia

    People constantly say there is no Bioware outside of name, as well as say the same for any company owned by a not so popular entity around here.

    BioWare has proved that with what they did with SW:TOR (and possibly Dragon Age. Or Mass Effect. Or what have you).

    The question is not who technically owns who. The question is who calls the shots.

    Or maybe Bioware just dropped the ball all on thier own? It's them writting, developing and delivering these games. I mean is it Ncsofts fault that Tabula Rasa didn't turn out well? Is it their fault Auto Assault sunk?

    In such a relationship there's always going to be a handler, always, especially when so much money is crossing hands. Still I do not blame publishers outright (even EA) when games don't deliver. TOR had all it needed to be a great MMO, big names, lots of fan support and more money than anyone has ever needed to make an MMO, they failed to utilize that in a productive way.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • terrantterrant Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 1,683Member
    Originally posted by Irus

    We will see when GW2 comes out. If GW2 is a really bad game, we can blame Arena.net or NCsoft, probably NCsoft. If GW2 is a good game, we can either say that Arena.net is still relatively independent, or that NCsoft has really amazing management (unlikely). I personally do not recall NCsoft acting terribly idiotic. Then again, they don't have many titles.

    I'm actually on your side on this one but I have to say for the sake of honesty: Tabula Rasa. Auto Assault.

     

    EDIT: Although they weren't as much idiocy as poorly implemented ideas, but the lines blur a bit.

  • pacovpacov Saskatoon, SKPosts: 311Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by pacov
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by Irus
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    I don't have any grudges, but AION was heralded as the second coming too. People were deleting there WoW toons and stuff like "F U BLizzard!!" It turned out not to be all that original to put it mildly. I also wonder how they are going to handle bots. They were rampant in AION.  Customer service is a concern aswell. I almost never need them, but when I do, I want my issue to be handled right.

     

    Maybe you should stop concentrating on what other people think so much?

     

    If you're not interested in a game, that's fine. 

    Think how you want... 

     

    I am interested. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.  Did you assume I wasn't because I said NCsoft is running the show? I'm cautious of the fact that this game is owned, produced, and published by a korean game maker.

     

    Again  OP is well within his right to say "I wont give NCsoft my money"

    incorrect please stop making a fool out of yourself

    Now I'm a fool?

     

     

    Definition for video game producer:

    Web definitions:
    A video game producer is the person in charge of overseeing development of a video game..
     

    they are an external producer sure but they have not produced the game in which context you have put it. Arenanet is an internal producer.

    image
  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by grimfall

    No, I am just illustrating that corporations don't just pick up games for the fun of it.  There's a reason that Arenanet was bought out by NCSoft, either they didn't have the money to produce another game, or the owners were greedy sellouts... which do you like?  If everyone was beating down their door to fund GW2 as a publisher, they would have done that and maintained control of their company.  That's how the industry works.

    Not sure what industry you're familiar with, but that situation almost never happens in gaming, period. To the best of my knowledge, the only big gaming studio still around that hasn't been bought out would be Valve.

    Your knowledge isn't very good.  Go take a look at the game list here on MMORPG.com, and you'll see that the majority of the games (by far) were not developed by publisher owned studios.

    But the "big gaming studio" argument is a strawmen anyway, because Arenanet wasn't shit who hadn't published  a single title when they got bought out.

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member

    I actually understand the OP.

    I have the absolute same reaction with all EA and Activision titles.

    If that's how you feel, stick to it. Ideologies are worth fighting for.

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    ... and through all the back and forth in this thread, GW2 is still an absolutely amazing game that will be played by many.

     

    Funny how that works, eh?

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • IrusIrus Wichita, KSPosts: 774Member
    Originally posted by Distopia

    Or maybe Bioware just dropped the ball all on thier own? It's them writting, developing and delivering these games. I mean is it Ncsofts fault that Tabula Rasa didn't turn out well? Is it their fault Auto Assault sunk?

    I mean, that's certainly possible. The thing is, we can't really know these things, tbh. I had a lot of faith in BioWare so the quality of some of their later products surprised me.

    In such a relationship there's always going to be a handler, always, especially when so much money is crossing hands.

    I'm honestly not sure what a handler is or what you mean by that.
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Irus

    We will see when GW2 comes out. If GW2 is a really bad game, we can blame Arena.net or NCsoft, probably NCsoft. If GW2 is a good game, we can either say that Arena.net is still relatively independent, or that NCsoft has really amazing management (unlikely). I personally do not recall NCsoft acting terribly idiotic. Then again, they don't have many titles.

    I'm actually on your side on this one but I have to say for the sake of honesty: Tabula Rasa. Auto Assault.

    EDIT: Although they weren't as much idiocy as poorly implemented ideas, but the lines blur a bit.

    Well, I never followed TR's development so I honestly have no idea what happened there. By AA you mean AA2?

  • grimfallgrimfall Missouri City, TXPosts: 1,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by StrixMaxima

    I actually understand the OP.

    I have the absolute same reaction with all EA and Activision titles.

    If that's how you feel, stick to it. Ideologies are worth fighting for.

    Yeah, I don't feel that way about any publisher, but I think it's silly that all these people who hate on EA, Activision, Atari and Funcom think the OP is nuts for having the same opinion on NCSoft.    TOR and WAR are/were better games than any MMO that NCSoft has put out.  If you take out launch issues, Funcom's games are better as well.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,908Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Irus
    Originally posted by Distopia

    Or maybe Bioware just dropped the ball all on thier own? It's them writting, developing and delivering these games. I mean is it Ncsofts fault that Tabula Rasa didn't turn out well? Is it their fault Auto Assault sunk?

    I mean, that's certainly possible. The thing is, we can't really know these things, tbh. I had a lot of faith in BioWare so the quality of some of their later products surprised me.

    In such a relationship there's always going to be a handler, always, especially when so much money is crossing hands.

    I'm honestly not sure what a handler is or what you mean by that.
    Originally posted by terrant
    Originally posted by Irus

    We will see when GW2 comes out. If GW2 is a really bad game, we can blame Arena.net or NCsoft, probably NCsoft. If GW2 is a good game, we can either say that Arena.net is still relatively independent, or that NCsoft has really amazing management (unlikely). I personally do not recall NCsoft acting terribly idiotic. Then again, they don't have many titles.

    I'm actually on your side on this one but I have to say for the sake of honesty: Tabula Rasa. Auto Assault.

    EDIT: Although they weren't as much idiocy as poorly implemented ideas, but the lines blur a bit.

    Well, I never followed TR's development so I honestly have no idea what happened there. By AA you mean AA2?

    Most likely means Auto Assault.

    As for handler I just meant someone to answer to, most publsihers have a person or two overseeing their subsidary peeps.

    Basically this sort of thing. This is how I imagine most relationships work between publishers and those they publish for.

    On 10 September 2008, NCsoft announced that all their North American and European subsidiaries, including ArenaNet, were to be governed by a new division named NC West (a tentative name), headquartered in Seattle, Washington.[5] "

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • RizelStarRizelStar Raleigh, NCPosts: 2,773Member

    *Reads all pages*Ahh as expected.

    Anyway it's good ANET developed the game.

    I wonder who is letting them release it when it is ready.

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • sonoggisonoggi tdot, ONPosts: 1,119Member

    thing is, even if GW2 came out right now with all of it's unfinished content, it would STILL win GOTY easily. it's too innnovative. it would be like giving the Nobel to Obama...just being different amidst mediocrity and upholding a good philosophy, when being different is frightening, is worth the award.

  • Ngeldu5tNgeldu5t PhoenixPosts: 606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by DarthSov

    So let me get this straight. Your overall opinion on games is that regardless of the game devs actual perpenceity in execution and qualityof the said product, its all for nought if that publisher is deemed more or less evil!

    You may have had a point if it were the case for instance that EA were involved but here you're exhibiting signs of severe silly.

    This is not a TSW EA situation. NCsoft is the owner of Anet, and the producer of GW2. Many of us a hesitant when it comes to Korean companies.

    Who is Many and who is US? Looks like OP is trying to be a Drama Queen,much ado about nothing.

    In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...

  • MMO_REVIEWERMMO_REVIEWER Harker Heights, TXPosts: 371Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by pacov
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by letsxhat
    Originally posted by DarthSov

    So let me get this straight. Your overall opinion on games is that regardless of the game devs actual perpenceity in execution and qualityof the said product, its all for nought if that publisher is deemed more or less evil!

    You may have had a point if it were the case for instance that EA were involved but here you're exhibiting signs of severe silly.

    This is not a TSW EA situation. NCsoft is the owner of Anet, and they producer of GW2. Many of us a hesitant when it comes to Korean companies.

    and why does it really matter if it is? if TSW is a good game and people enjoy it who cares if it is funcom and EA?

    well it's not Funcom and EA. It's Funcom. GW2 is NCsoft is owned and funded by NCsoft a Korean game maker. Maybe you misunderstood me.

     

    OP can say I hate NCsoft so I wont play GW2. The money goes straight to NCsoft.

    Can't compare a company that makes a bad game to a company that is funded by a company that made a bad game. NCsoft has no influence on Arenanets development of the game. Are any of their staff working with arenanet to incorporate ideas to the game? no.

    NCsoft owns Anet. Anet wont see a penny until NCsoft gives it to them. It's NCsofts game. 

    You have this backwards my good sir/madam. Well I wouldn't say its quite "backwards"...They see the money at the same time. Arenanet is not 'owned' by Ncsoft nor do they ever plan to sell their souls to the devil, as it were.

    I think we should straighten this out for you since you seem to be a tad bit confused. As many have stated before Ncsoft has no part in the development process of Guild Wars 2. Nor does Ncsoft  see a huge portion of the revenue from the game. In fact the cut that Ncsoft gets is actually pretty small. They're a publisher not a communist nation. If I had to gander at a guess I'd say its something like 30% or so, leaving 70% for Arenanet to rub their johnsons on.

    Then what does Ncsoft do for Anet? and why are they even necessary for Anet's success. For one Ncsoft is one of the few 'successful' publishers of mmo's on a global scale. Sure there are other publishers, but very few others span the entire world from east to west. Most other publishing firms are based in either NA, EU, or in Asia somewhere(Korea) and make contracts with publishers in the other two sectors to pass the game off to for localization. Think of how Frogster is a big publisher in EU...

     

    Ncsoft has offices all over the world. They do, however, make a differentiation between east and west; calling their home offices Ncsoft and all offices in NA/EU 'Ncwest'. The plaync label is used mostly for marketing purposes and advertisement.

    In most cases when a game is published by Ncsoft they are merely contracting out a development studio. Arenanet has been with Ncsoft for so long that they have a long standing contract and are seen as a 'subsidiary' when this isn't entirely true. Arenanet is still very much independent and could, if they so chose, go to a different publisher like EA(madness) or Zenimax.

    Refusing to play the game because it's published by Ncsoft is like saying "I won't order the final season of my favorite anime because its published by funimation and they published some anime that i really hated..." or "I won't eat at this resteraunt, because my arch enemy works at the location across town."

    Also on the topic of customer support...Most game developers are responsible for their game's support. They are tasked with hiring a support team and setting up their offices across the country or countries. Aion had bad support because the Aion Team (the actual name of the team that made the game. Creative I know) wasn't very quick about hiring their support staff. They were a bit overwhelmed by the immediate success of the game and its inherent issues and it suffered from then on.

    Arenanet, if you played the original Guild Wars you would know, had excellent support. You got a response quickly, they were usually very informative in their responses, and did a very (VERY) good job with managing the community and listening to their opinions.

    This is most evident in Guild Wars 2.

    Try not to hate for the sake of hating.

    "I am dark-skinned and bald-headed so I hate jesus and I hate you!" -line from The Boondocks' Tyler Perry spoof

    MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.

  • redcap036redcap036 AdelaidePosts: 1,230Member

    On the question of whom owns ArenaNet, I did a quick google search and found this From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia;

    ArenaNet is a video game developer and part of NCsoft Corporation, founded in 2000 by Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain and located in Bellevue, Washington. They are the developers of the episodic Competitive online role-playing game series Guild Wars.

    The founders of ArenaNet were former employees of Blizzard Entertainment who played important roles in developing the highly successful video games Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Diablo II, and the Battle.net gaming network. Their new studio was briefly called Triforge, Inc.[4] before changing its name to ArenaNet and being acquired by NCsoft.

    On 10 September 2008, NCsoft announced that all their North American and European subsidiaries, including ArenaNet, were to be governed by a new division named NC West (a tentative name), headquartered in Seattle, Washington.[5] ArenaNet will no longer report directly to NCsoft Korea.[6] Three of ArenaNet's executives left ArenaNet to assume leadership positions in this new organization: Chris Chung became its CEO, Jeff Strain its president, and Patrick Wyatt its CTO. Guild Wars 2 will continue under the direction of Mike O'Brien, who remains at ArenaNet.[6] In August 2009, Jeff Strain quit and later announced he was forming a new game company.

     

    So to sum up;

    - ArenaNet is a video game developer and part of NCsoft Corporation.

    - ArenaNet were/are governed by a division named NC West headquartered in Seattle.

    - ArenaNet NO longer reports directly to NCsoft Korea.

    Hope this helps, as for the OP I don't really care what he does or doesn't do.

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    I like how a short 0 content troll post can generate 8 pages of discussion.

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Red Beer, ABPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by Copenhagen

    Which I find very hard to believe, while some might find it very fun, and enjoy it a great deal.  That don't mean the rest of us will.

    That said, I would not touch GW2 with a 5,000,000ft pole.  Or shove any more money into NC Soft's pockets.  I don't like them.  Yes, I know they did not make the game.  But they are making money from it.

     

    Therefore, they can just count me out.

    I'm sure that the CEO of NCsoft will jump out the window now that this post is in existance. Your duty on this planet is complete.

     

    Just out of curiosity, did you choose your name from the city, or the brown pungent crap that cowboys spit out of their mouths? Oh wait, I think I already know the answer.

  • grimm6thgrimm6th Overland Park, KSPosts: 973Member
    Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

    -snip-

    Try not to hate for the sake of hating.

    I doubt you are going to get through to the OP, who, as far as I can tell, would rather hate NCsoft (for who knows what reason) than play a game that seems interesting to him (based on previous, near identical posts).  Shame, really, as it seems to me that he seems to be trying to convince himself that he wouldn't like it anyways.

     

    I really don't believe that there is any rational reason behind the OP's hatred.  I also don't think this is hatred for the sake of hatred...it seems to irrational for that.

     

    @OP - Find a game to play.  We don't need to hear you say the same things over and over.  We get it.  You don't like NCsoft.  Maybe you could elaborate on this next time you post (more than "I have not liked any of their games in the past".  Fair warning though...you will probably get a bunch of people disagreeing with you, telling you why you are wrong (or right, but how it doesn't matter).

     

    ahhh, who am I kidding, he'll never read this.  Have fun talking about how NCsoft's relationship with the developement of GW2 means it is doomed to fail and will never be a good game...seriously,  We have all seen enough evidence of GW2 that we can make our own judgements on how good this game is (or isn't).  This whole NCsoft will ruin it argument was fun (ok, no it wasn't) back before we had hardly ANY information and no trailers or anything (over 2 years ago), but I don't think it really holds up anymore.

    I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.

This discussion has been closed.