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Originally posted by Valentina Originally posted by Rocketeer Originally posted by Warjin Originally posted by Scummyman I didn't realise that there were enough players to warrant a super server:/
You do know Swtor is still the second largest sub based MMO in the World right?
1. WoW with 10.3ish
2. Swtor with 1.3ish (2 would of been Aion Global but now it's free to play and most of those subs were in Asia)
People act as if Swtor is on the same bracket as the other MMO's, it's not it's in the big leagues when it comes to MMO subs, so in other words unless you are playing WoW, Swtor still out subs any other MMO in the World by a country mile.
Ehh looking at that lineage 1 and two both had far more subs going and held out a lot longer. So SWTOR at its peak had less subscribers than lineage 1 had in 2005 ... yeah im real impressed. Also that very site you list as "proof" still ranks aion higher than SWTOR in subscriptions.
So really, besides WoW there are 3 games that had a higher peak than SWTOR, one of which is still higher and the other two did it while the total MMO subscription market(again, graph from the very same site you list as proof) was less than half of what it is today.
Infact if you take the peaks that WHO and AoC had between 2008 and 2009, and take them as a percentage of the total MMO population back at that time, they would be comparable to a 1mil+ peak these days. So SWTOR, did a little better than WHO, while costing how much more? Comparing it to Aion, a game with no IP at all behind it is almost embarassing because that game peaked at 4 million subs in 2010, still had more than 2 mil subs beginning 2012, AND is considered a game that has pretty much failed and had to go F2P.
And yeah i know SWTOR did not get released in the far eastern market, i also know the reason for it. Because it will tank even worse there than it did here, not to mention having to redo the whole VOs in like 2-3 new languages will cost far to much money to even consider for a game like this. Not to mention that the chinese ministeries will probably find some anti chinese propaganda in it and ban it unless they take out humanoids or LSs or something. Lord knows they managed with Avatar and that was basicly just pocahontas with giant smurfs.
Edit: Hell even EvE Online has 400k subs, and thats a 9 year old INDIE game with about the highest monthly rates in the industry(in € EvEs sub is 15% more expensive than SWTOR). So what? Having 3 times the subs of a fricking Indie MMO is bragging rights now? Well not to me, not if you have EA and one of the biggest advertising campaigns in the history of MMOs behind you and literally every decent size supermarketed had your product on stand right in the entryway. Its a failure, and the fact that its surrounded by even bigger failures is neither an excuse nor should it make them feel better. A looser that looks down on other loosers is still a looser.
Honestly, look where SWTOR started, the kind of backing it had. And now look where it is now, does anyone really think thats any good? They are still claculating wether they have made a profit with this or not. You know what? Those investors are real sorry now, cause if they had just bought apple shares instead of investing in swtor they would have trippled their money instead of worrying about breaking even. This game is a financial failure, you don't fire the devs(sorry restructure) of a successful game, and never once has a ... restructuring(sorry firering) of half your dev base lead to an improved product. Thats the kind of crap you pull shortly before server mergers and before going F2P.
You don't know what you're talking about Rocketeer. lol. Lineage 2 did NOT have even close to 1 million SUBSCRIPTIONS when it was released. It had 1 million accounts created after a several month period after it launched. SW:TOR is by all means the fastest growing MMO, and the biggest debut for an MMO, ever. Period. Whether you like the game or not, that's just the indisputable fact, and those are the milestones that SW:TOR reached. Also, they've already localized the game for many foreign languages, and has already launched in an asian country as well as a few middle eastern countries with full localization supported. As for how SW:TOR is holding up right now, things don't look great but they probably also look far worse than they really are. They made a few mistakes in the design of the game, one of them is being rectified with 1.3, so by the time 1.5 hits I'm sure the game will be doing significantly better. As much as I love the subscription business model, I truly believe that it's time has come and gone, people will play new subscription MMO's for a couple of months and then they cancel their subscriptions mostly because they don't really want to add to any bills they have right now, people want to see where their money is going and the market is catering to a generation of customers who have grown up in economic hardship, and therefor can't really justify paying for a video game service like this anymore.
The layoffs BioWare had to do, functionality speaking haven't even really effected the games continued development and their dev team is bigger than almost every dev team for an MMO out there right now, and as long as they can maintain 500k subscriptions then their game will continue to fall into positive profit margins for both BioWare & EA. I don't think they'll have trouble keeping 500k subs, but I do think that hybrid/freemium business models are the future for this genre and they'd be wise to move in that direction, as would any other AAA MMO title in the future. MegaServers are also the future of this genre, and I'm surprised they didn't launch with them in the first place, as I think other AAA MMO titles should be doing, as well.
Wait, I don't know what im talking about? Im just reading the graphs on the site that Warjin has provided as proof for his arguments. You honestly think a game starting at a medium value(its not even in the middle on the chart of the big sub MMOs) and then going down is better than starting low and going to a higher value?
But no, your actually one of those who think the game has some kind of hidden potential and that "THE NEXT PATCH" will be the one to make people realize how much fun they have been missing and bring them back to the game ...
Look, i know exactly how you feel. I have been THERE. I was in your shoes defending STO, WHO and F2P LotRO. Because all these games had a kind of beauty to me, something i enjoyed, that others apparently where missing. But you know what i learned? The next patch won't help. It never made ANY difference. It didn't help WHO, AoC, Vanguard, STO or any other of the myriad games that got problems xy fixed in a patch months after initial launch. The only thing that ever made a small difference where new feature rich expansions(for AoC) or going F2P(for LotRO).
Also we are talking about EA. Why do you think they will handle this any different than WHO? Because its more successful? So what it also costed more money and is more costly to expand(due to high qual VOs in several languages). They even flatout SAID this game isn't a top priority project to them. They fired lots and lots of skilled people working at trying to make this game better, you understand that? They fired people working on making the game better. They didn't even wait till the released the first expansion like they did with land of the dead with WHO. Providing quality post release support just isn't EAs "thing". Yeah they probably won't ever shut it down, they are still running UO after all ... but look how they support their old slightly failed games. WHO was a total failure, but it was also salvageable. 1-2 full years of a full team working on it, maybe 1-2 expansions over that time, and that game could have really launched off. Unlike SWTOR it wasn't even fundamentally flawed(much...), just poorly executed.
Point is EA doesn't do salvage. EA doesn't do dedicated support. EA is in it for the quick buck. SoE might be the devil for what they did with SWG and Vanguard, but atleast they dedicatedly support EQ and EQ II. And compared to Blizzard and CCP, again not exactly saints, but damn look how much they support their games. Blizzard released a major patch for SC 1 over 10 years after its release, and offers support for it even to this day, almost 14 years after its launch. Damn, tell me what you want but they care about the games they make. And CCP is pretty much the only MMO publisher that did a complete new interface and resolution overhaul for their game.
What exactly do you expect from EA? That they start to care about their games like blizzard, or keep a whole dedicated and growing team on it like CCP did for atleast 5-6 years? You think thats the kind of company they are? I tell you what they do, they will do the exact same with this game that they did with every other game ever made by EA. Milk it till its dry and then move on. They already have their next MMOs in planning and guess three times where the devs working on these new MMOs will be coming from ...
If BW wants me to get excited about a whirlwind of possibilities then I need more than 1 or 2 sentences at this point.
I doubt that mega servers are going to improve things.. It may give a temporary band aid feel, but in the long run, The game will be what it is.. It is designed to be a gear grind treadmill, and people either play it or not.. I personally don't think that game style can sustain more then 200-300k for the long term.. In fact I think more and more people that used to tolerate gear grinds like WoW had, are now getting bored of the formula.. I know I and most of my friends have.. It's just a linerar loop or insanity.. LOL
Originally posted by RocketeerPoint is EA doesn't do salvage. EA doesn't do dedicated support. EA is in it for the quick buck. SoE might be the devil for what they did with SWG and Vanguard, but atleast they dedicatedly support EQ and EQ II. And compared to Blizzard and CCP, again not exactly saints, but damn look how much they support their games. Blizzard released a major patch for SC 1 over 10 years after its release, and offers support for it even to this day, almost 14 years after its launch. Damn, tell me what you want but they care about the games they make. And CCP is pretty much the only MMO publisher that did a complete new interface and resolution overhaul for their game.What exactly do you expect from EA? That they start to care about their games like blizzard, or keep a whole dedicated and growing team on it like CCP did for atleast 5-6 years? You think thats the kind of company they are? I tell you what they do, they will do the exact same with this game that they did with every other game ever made by EA. Milk it till its dry and then move on. They already have their next MMOs in planning and guess three times where the devs working on these new MMOs will be coming from ...