Teams are creating tons of new games and in fact not one is something special.
To you maybe.
For f sake where is their imagination, how is that possible that not one single team of developers is not able to create some kind of mysterious world full of intrigues like it was with single player rpg Elder Scrolls.
Because it is so many times more difficult to build that kind of an experience into anything other than a single-player game, if you think it is so easy why haven't YOU done it?
Now they give us that wanna be Oblivion Online mmo! What a crap is that??? First part of Elder looks 10 x better than this peace of s... .
Played it have you? No? Then you don't know wtf you are talking about. MMO's almost never look anything like as good as single-player games but, this argument is always trotted out by the usual trolls, same trolls often also start spouting the gameplay is more important than graphics lines when it suits their argument.
I think Blizzard don't need to be afraid for another 8 years with that stupid fast preorder of ''not finished mmo's''. Shame on all of this teams who tried to sell us that crap in advance, never ever i will preorder any mmo again. Problem is that they will destroy mmo market with this crappy games and not one smart company will invest any large amount of money in to mmo again. Well, excpt Blizzard.
Blizzard (with WoW) are outside of the park of "regular MMO's" a lot of the criteria that are necessary for smaller games (all of them) just don't apply to WoW, it's an outlier & is the only one of it's kind, any sensible critique acknowledges this & avoids constantly using it as an example because it is not a good example if it is the only one
You come off as a former WoW fanboi that's fed up of WoW & wants some competition but you don't offer up any suggestions of what it is you want, so I put it to you that you don't in actual fact know what you want, & you instead only focus on the things you don't want, which basicly boils down to everything.
Why are you playing MMO's?
I play SWTOR, enjoy it, stillplay WoW a bit & will eventually play both those less when GW2 & TSW release, I'm looking forward to what TESO will do as an MMO but I, unlike many detractors, am not looking for it to be Skyrim et al with massively multiplayer bolted on, I am looking for it to be an MMO set in the same "universe" as those games.
Maybe you should leave MMO's alone, I don't think you will find what you are looking for because you don't even know what that is.
Not sure how Elder Scrolls Online can even be called an MMO. They said in an article you won't run into people, not to mention it seems like nobody even cares about this game so why are they making it as if people been asking about it for 10 years? I don't think anyone cares about this game....and it's not an MMO.
Teams are creating tons of new games and in fact not one is something special. For f sake where is their imagination, how is that possible that not one single team of developers is not able to create some kind of mysterious world full of intrigues like it was with single player rpg Elder Scrolls. Now they give us that wanna be Oblivion Online mmo! What a crap is that??? First part of Elder looks 10 x better than this peace of s... . I think Blizzard don't need to be afraid for another 8 years with that stupid fast preorder of ''not finished mmo's''. Shame on all of this teams who tried to sell us that crap in advance, never ever i will preorder any mmo again. Problem is that they will destroy mmo market with this crappy games and not one smart company will invest any large amount of money in to mmo again. Well, excpt Blizzard
This is all from your perspective. I personally don't like the way a bunch of games are seemingly shaping up, but there are a few cool looking ones coming, in my opinion.
I am hyped for The Secret World and especially ArcheAge. I am also really interested in the Game of Thrones title, that looks like it might have some promise.
But like I said, it is all perspective.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Well it is not. Do you see maybe in near future some special title that gives you some fast heart beats??? Well i see some ''good average'' games but nothing super awesome and huge, something what was never before created
Well it is not. Do you see maybe in near future some special title that gives you some fast heart beats??? Well i see some ''good average'' games but nothing super awesome and huge, something what was never before created
Do you consider yourself special and therefore need a special game that is the end all be all of gaming? Extremely unrealistic.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
2012 is shaping up to be a good year for mmo releases, none of them seem "wow inspired"
- Guild Wars 2
- Neverwinter
- Secret World
- TERA
in contrast,
2011 gave us 3 mmos
2 games largely inspired by WOW (RIFT and SWTOR) and DCUO
will any of the 2012 mmos be a threat to blizzard? no
but it gives players more choices in what mmo to play
You never can be really sure about that. Ok, none of them will force Blizz to close down Wow but they might take a bite out of Wows already bleeding subs. I know more than one person who prebought GW2 and plan to close down the Wow account at launch.
I don't see how you can say that... WoW isn't what it used too, and we have a hand full of games that will cater to a bunch of different play styles. (don't confuse that statement with WoW killer)
GW2, PS2, AA, TSW, EoC. I think the problem with WoW is, is that those playing it and raiding, do NOT want to start over, they've developed multiple characters over years and put in literally months of playtime into them. While they may get bored with the system, there is still enough to do to keep them from starting over.
IMHO the only "WoW killer" is WoW and Blizzard itself. So get off your fanboi seat, and stop expecting every new game to cater to millions of players at once. But do expect all the new games coming out to cater to more players than WoW has. Not one at a time, but all together there is a huge market for these companies, and they will do perfectly fine with or without WoW numbers.
And i'm sorry but to think WoW will be top dog for another 8 years is laughable. Blizzard maybe. I see them offering WoW subbers a special bonus or discount for getting into their new MMO, but to say World of Warcraft will be #1 for almost another decade is fanboism at its finest.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Well it is not. Do you see maybe in near future some special title that gives you some fast heart beats??? Well i see some ''good average'' games but nothing super awesome and huge, something what was never before created
Do people really need some numeric validation of their choice of game? Play what you enjoy, don't give a damn about other games. CoD sells millions of copies each release, loads of people play facebook games and LoL has more subscribers than WoW... thing is, it means pretty much nothing to me, since I'm not interested in either of those.
^Truth. I wish everyone thought this way.
It bothers me to no end when MMO's release and within days people are spouting their opinions on the future of the game.
And all of a sudden, the games success reminds me of a stock in the stock market.
An mmo can do well or tank depending on peoples fears.
Well it is not. Do you see maybe in near future some special title that gives you some fast heart beats??? Well i see some ''good average'' games but nothing super awesome and huge, something what was never before created
I do. I see 3. GW2, TSW and ArcheAge. Having already had a chance to play 2 of those 3, my "fast heart beats???" are still pounding away while I wait for them to launch. You ARE cynical. Also, don't assume that because you don't like what's coming out, that others will be on your bandwagon with you. Matter of fact, you are a minority with your viewpoint at this current time.
I don't see how you can say that... WoW isn't what it used too, and we have a hand full of games that will cater to a bunch of different play styles. (don't confuse that statement with WoW killer)
GW2, PS2, AA, TSW, EoC. I think the problem with WoW is, is that those playing it and raiding, do NOT want to start over, they've developed multiple characters over years and put in literally months of playtime into them. While they may get bored with the system, there is still enough to do to keep them from starting over.
IMHO the only "WoW killer" is WoW and Blizzard itself. So get off your fanboi seat, and stop expecting every new game to cater to millions of players at once. But do expect all the new games coming out to cater to more players than WoW has. Not one at a time, but all together there is a huge market for these companies, and they will do perfectly fine with or without WoW numbers.
And i'm sorry but to think WoW will be top dog for another 8 years is laughable. Blizzard maybe. I see them offering WoW subbers a special bonus or discount for getting into their new MMO, but to say World of Warcraft will be #1 for almost another decade is fanboism at its finest.
I see what your saying with the MMO community fanning out over many games but I think the result of this will be a much smaller overall MMO user base. Wow will not be around in 8 years let alone on top, but I don't think any game or games will replace it. I really feel that while MMO's are not dying they are over their peak. I think lastly effect of SWTOR's failure to grab a large sub base will be felt for years in the MMO world with regards to companies just unwilling to put large sums of money into MMO development. Hopefully GW2 does good cause if it does not live up to the hype and say Elder Scrolls crashes that might really kill large development of MMO's. I do not think regardless that any game even Wow will ever reach what Wow had before.
I see the future moving more into the Diablo 3 system. Single player with online groups and PvP with probably lots of added content and probably f2p style item shops added in. Diablo 3's 6.7M units sold in a week I think kind of gives us a hint that in this current climate of gaming this style reaches out to more people then MMO's do at the moment. I think game makers will look at this and see a larger pool of people, games that cost less to make then MMO's and have a better looking profit to risk ratio for them.
So while MMO's are not dead the glory days of them being the king of at least PC gaming is over and IMO(and it justs a opinion people I don't have a crystal ball or am saying this is def going to happen) you will see a mix of the MMO and single player genres become the new king of gaming.
I'm actually putting some hope that World of Darkness will be the MMO that next suprises me some, but only because of my past good experience with CCP/EVE.
Meanwhile, I've learned to "find the fun" in almost any new title out there, regardless if it doesn't knock my socks off with innovation or what not.
May not keep me engrossed for more than a few months, but what the heck, that's better than single player games so no harm, no foul.
Kyleran how do you see a good experience in CCP/EVE with what GoonSquad has been doing and all the suicide ganking in high section space ?
Most probably he sees the same thing I do. CCP is no saint, but they generally own-up to their blunders, apologize for those blunders and then make a concerted effort to repair any damage caused.
I admire CCP, they're the only "garage indie company" to have achieved consistent success. And they did that by sticking closely to their vision for their game. They never tried to grab more subs by dumbing-down the game, or by making it "safer" (for the carebears) or removing safezone restrictions (to please the PVP-zealots).
EVE has it share of ups-and-downs, but it remains: EVE.
I wish more companies thought this way.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Well it is not. Do you see maybe in near future some special title that gives you some fast heart beats??? Well i see some ''good average'' games but nothing super awesome and huge, something what was never before created
Plenty, but whenever people bring up the different directions that companies go they are always met with "That's not a real MMO." It's a silly circle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think GW2 is going to have a huge dedicated following,but a large portion of the people in GW2 will still be playing WOW.The only mmo I see truly having a shot at knocking WOW to it's knees is Titan.I believe it will be another Blizzard game that dominates and takes WOW down a few notches.Then Titan will rule the next decade.
TESO in my opinion will go down just like TOR.I looked at some ss and it looked eerily like LOTRO in the pics I saw.
I'm actually putting some hope that World of Darkness will be the MMO that next suprises me some, but only because of my past good experience with CCP/EVE.
Meanwhile, I've learned to "find the fun" in almost any new title out there, regardless if it doesn't knock my socks off with innovation or what not.
May not keep me engrossed for more than a few months, but what the heck, that's better than single player games so no harm, no foul.
Kyleran how do you see a good experience in CCP/EVE with what GoonSquad has been doing and all the suicide ganking in high section space ?
OK, first of all, I'm not currently playing, so recent Goodswarm antics had no impact to me when I was. (in fact, my corporation was allied with the Goonswarm during my last go around)
Second, I don't mine, so the impact would be minimal on my activities, and if I did mine, I might feel differently.
But even so, EVE is an interesting world, and the actions such as Hulkageedon only serve to encourage (OK force) players to alter their tactics to accomodate the changing landscape. (like stop mining in the target ships, learn to fly a miner Osprey again)
Take the recent burn Jita event. I would have quickly shifted all my commerce to the Amarr homeworlds or one of the other major market hubs and it would have had almost no impact on me.
Also, were I a miner, I'd probably join up with a good 0.0 corp and start mining out in their space, since there would be greater (not perfect) protection if I learned to fly smart and of course, they could always provide cover fire if things got really intense.
What you need to understand is that actions such as the Goons take result in shaking players from their comfort zones, which is why CCP does very little to restrict their activites, because that's what EVE is supposed to be about, white knuckle excitement that challenges your paradyms and makes you come up with new ways to profit and thrive.
It does mean the player loses control of the situation, which I realize many players find undesireable, but in my case it's the randomness of it all that actually makes the game more fun, not less, at least to my gaming tastes.
Hear hear!! +1
It's amazing how many people don't seem to understand that there are those of us who LIKE these kinds of challenges, these kinds of logistical problems that we have to figure out how to get around. The feeling that you get when you figure out, on your own or perhaps with a couple of friends, a perfect work-around to those completely unexpected and often quite brilliant problems/risks that other players present, so that you can legitimately say "Ha ha, missed me, f*ck you you losers!"...that is very, VERY satisfying.
That's why I play Eve myself, and probably why a good chunk of the current player-base does too.
I don't see how you can say that... WoW isn't what it used too, and we have a hand full of games that will cater to a bunch of different play styles. (don't confuse that statement with WoW killer)
GW2, PS2, AA, TSW, EoC. I think the problem with WoW is, is that those playing it and raiding, do NOT want to start over, they've developed multiple characters over years and put in literally months of playtime into them. While they may get bored with the system, there is still enough to do to keep them from starting over.
IMHO the only "WoW killer" is WoW and Blizzard itself. So get off your fanboi seat, and stop expecting every new game to cater to millions of players at once. But do expect all the new games coming out to cater to more players than WoW has. Not one at a time, but all together there is a huge market for these companies, and they will do perfectly fine with or without WoW numbers.
And i'm sorry but to think WoW will be top dog for another 8 years is laughable. Blizzard maybe. I see them offering WoW subbers a special bonus or discount for getting into their new MMO, but to say World of Warcraft will be #1 for almost another decade is fanboism at its finest.
I see what your saying with the MMO community fanning out over many games but I think the result of this will be a much smaller overall MMO user base. Wow will not be around in 8 years let alone on top, but I don't think any game or games will replace it. I really feel that while MMO's are not dying they are over their peak. I think lastly effect of SWTOR's failure to grab a large sub base will be felt for years in the MMO world with regards to companies just unwilling to put large sums of money into MMO development. Hopefully GW2 does good cause if it does not live up to the hype and say Elder Scrolls crashes that might really kill large development of MMO's. I do not think regardless that any game even Wow will ever reach what Wow had before.
I see the future moving more into the Diablo 3 system. Single player with online groups and PvP with probably lots of added content and probably f2p style item shops added in. Diablo 3's 6.7M units sold in a week I think kind of gives us a hint that in this current climate of gaming this style reaches out to more people then MMO's do at the moment. I think game makers will look at this and see a larger pool of people, games that cost less to make then MMO's and have a better looking profit to risk ratio for them.
So while MMO's are not dead the glory days of them being the king of at least PC gaming is over and IMO(and it justs a opinion people I don't have a crystal ball or am saying this is def going to happen) you will see a mix of the MMO and single player genres become the new king of gaming.
I agree and disagree at the same time. Myself will never play a Diablo type game and consider it my "MMO". I don't want city hub type game. I think the MMO market actualy has more players now than it did 5 years ago, it's just spread out because of all the MMOs.
I mean the market is changing no doubt, with F2P, B2P still a sub base, it's changing for sure. But on the part with GW2 with ES:O i completely agree, if both those games don't get a good chunk, or make it seem worth it in the devs eyes, then yea i see some change like more Diablo based games coming out. But i also think Diablo caters to a different group, I see Diablo as an in between game, not something i would put a ton of time into but a between the games game haha, I see it kind of like my FPS i play, Ghost Recon, BF3, those sold a sheit ton of copies, way more than 6.7 mil But that caters to a different fan base, and i don't see Diablo type games filling that MMO feel for atleast a few million.
I agree with you on the glory days though, we won't see a WoW type sub base again unless we get 50 million MMO players across all games. The reason i say this is there is too much choice now. Back in 2004 there was what 3-5 big games? DAoC, UO, SWG(?), EQ and the like. Now we got..... well go to the game list and see for yourself There is probably 20 games that hold a solid player base, where back then there was only those 3-5 that held a "large" subscriber base.(there were plenty more games i know)
Honestly i'm putting my money more on PS2 now, and games like that. I LOVE FPS but i hate how small the matches are, i want a WAR not a bar fight, 12v12 isnt a freaking WAR, thats like 2 mercany groups slapping each other. Sadly i never heard of PlanetSide so i never tried it, but looking at games like PS2 i think it could draw a large crowd over from the BF3/CoD crowd (maybe not CoD cause thats like E-sport WoW style, Just 8v8 team battles is what they care about). This is a tough subject cause it's like we have so many good sounding games coming out, but thats how it's been for the last 2-3 years and nothing has followed through for us.
Another thing on D3 real quick, i think it's biggest selling point was Blizzard, topped off with Diablo name. I think the REAL test to see if games like such will take off will be TL2, if TL2 gets a big follower base, then yeah i see it taking off, but D3 IMO sold that many because of Blizz and the name, not much else.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Defiance (Interesting concept. If it's a hit you see more game (MMOs) being connected to TV series)
Planetside 2
Also note that compare to the games market, MMOs are way more innovating. How much innovation have you really seen? All the games I have listed above are innovating. True they build on concepts already known to us, but also add innovating things. When I look at the rest of the market and at the AAA games then you hardly see new concepts. Hell they even get worse, usually easier and shorter.
Innovation in MMORPGs? Since when? The last significant ANYTHING in MMORPGs since 2004 are 3 things.
1. WoW's unprecedented, still unreplicated success by anyone else in the MMORPG genre.
2. Many have tried to rise in dethroning WoW. Many have been found dead or dying along the side of that treacherous road of MMORPG Games.
3. The last real "innovation" in MMORPGs is F2P, which is really just a sneaky way of snaking money out of your wallet.
And that's it.
MMORPGs.
M - It's not as "Massive" with so many titles dividing up the game world and populace into smaller, and smaller subsections. I mean, you and a friend can be literally standing next to each other in the proper X, Y, and Z coordinates, but you won't see each other because you're in different instances of the same region. That's a serious downgrade in "Massive" from when MMORPGs were newer.
M - They may still be "Multiplayer" capable, but in general practice, groups have become the rarity as the years have progressed with MMORPGs. I recall some games even penalizing players in XPs while being in a group. Then there's the unstoppable trend for "Solo Friendliness," to the extreme point that you don't need to deal with *anybody* to reach level cap. No need to group. No need to purchase gear and services from other players, because following your questline like a good little rodent nets you just rewards. Rewards that are oftenly better than anything a player can ever provide you. MMORPGs in general have killed the "Multiplayer" aspect of the genre's name. Oh, SWTOR, how nice of you to show up...
O - Well, that's the only thing that MMORPGs still have. They require you to be online. Not so hard, is it?
Now, in terms of players playing and the money being generated, I think MMORPGs have skyrocketed past any dreams from 1998. But in terms of what exactly "MMORPG" means and the gameplay involved, I think the genre has regressed terribly, and is rotten in its core.
And I don't see it changing for a long time. I don't agree with WoW dominating for "another 8 years" as the OP says, but I think the eventual new king will be the same. Even the most recent, biggest named, expensively developed challenger to the throne, SWTOR, tried in its heart of hearts to immulate whatever it possibly could from WoW. This title, having the fabled "Star Wars" name, the deep pockets of EA / BioWare / Lucasarts, and having the attentions of one of the most famed game developers out there, BioWare... was literally afraid of trying anything different from WoW. Its own developers openly said that it was stupid to stray from WoW's model. With the reputation, influence, and money that BioWare had to make SWTOR, and still be completely derivative and regressing on what MMORPG traits are, should be very telling on the state of this genre.
Since 2004, every developer out there has tried, tried, and tried again in copying WoW's success. They see the bountiful fruits it has generated Blizzard, and their mouths are watering for a piece of that WoW Pie. Yet none of them have come even halfway close to being as successful.
And it still hasn't stopped developers from trying to replicate the exact steps, repeating the failures of others, yet they're still hoping for success.
There's a word for that.
It's called Insanity.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Defiance (Interesting concept. If it's a hit you see more game (MMOs) being connected to TV series)
Planetside 2
Also note that compare to the games market, MMOs are way more innovating. How much innovation have you really seen? All the games I have listed above are innovating. True they build on concepts already known to us, but also add innovating things. When I look at the rest of the market and at the AAA games then you hardly see new concepts. Hell they even get worse, usually easier and shorter.
Innovation in MMORPGs? Since when? The last significant ANYTHING in MMORPGs since 2004 are 3 things.
1. WoW's unprecedented, still unreplicated success by anyone else in the MMORPG genre.
2. Many have tried to rise in dethroning WoW. Many have been found dead or dying along the side of that treacherous road of MMORPG Games.
3. The last real "innovation" in MMORPGs is F2P, which is really just a sneaky way of snaking money out of your wallet.
And that's it.
Innovation is a tricky and often subjective thing. For example, let someone name the innovations in other gaming genres and you'll probably have a number of people that'll say that in one form or the other those so called innovations have been around for far longer than the one who mentioned them has thought.
So, let's put innovations and feature evolutions or normbreakers into one bunch to avoid bickering about it, and see what has risen among them since WoW. Oh, and this includes innovations/evolutions that people might dislike in MMO's, obviously.
automated public and dynamic quests: Warhammer and CO had it, it evolved into something more with Rift and GW2 with dynamic PvE changes in an area.
phasing: seen mostly and most actively in WoW, SWTOR uses it for class quest areas
cross server dungeons/PvP areas: seen in WoW and Rift
player made quests and PvE content: anyone ever seen how the Foundry works in STO? Is looking pretty special, not just merely a fetch/kill/bounty task list you give, but more elaborate into a whole designed mission area and questlines that come with it. The Storybricks MMO will take this tooling even way further.
action oriented combat: I haven't seen combat like Vindictus or TERA being used in MMO's pre-WoW, certainly not to that degree. Watch a couple of gameplay videos of Vindictus, the situational and environment impact and influences on combat is quite impressive.
interactive synergy in team skills: I don't know how to better describe it, but it's the situation where skills and attacks of different players start to bounce off eachother's effects to larger result. Like in GW2 how player A can create a poison or fire area while player B will create a poison or fire arrow by shooting it through the affected area. Or like in TSW where player A will put a creature into a burning state with an attack, that for player B will trigger his passive skill that'll cause an AoE explosion effect around that creature bc of its burning state.
multipath quests: quests that can have different outcomes or paths based on decisions players make. Seen in SWTOR quests and GW2's Personal Story
appearance tab: LotrO, EQ2
automated level scaling: your level adjusts to the area you travel in (genius feature, every MMO should have it!)
Let me think for some more, I think I can come up with some others too.
In any case, more than just F2P or such as only innovation introduced.
add: some others:
multiple version dungeons: haven't played them yet, but from what I understand in both GW2 and SWTOR the dungeon has some different states it can be in based on player decisions or random factor. Hellgate had completely random generated dungeons/areas
adventure game elements: things like puzzles that need to be solved to move forward, in much the same way as you find in adventure games. TSW will use the vast ocean of real world information that you have to pluck the answers from that you need.
RTS elements in PvP warfare: GW2's WvW will have it, with mines, mills, caravans that all contribute to the available resources that keeps will have and can use for fortification and building, in much the same way that's seen in RTS games like WC3 or SC
Smaller ones: The Repopulation, Embers of Caerus, Pathfinder Online, and Life is Feudal.
All these titles have ONE thing in common. They are different in many ways to WoW.
Can you name some games are actually good?
Excuse me? None of these games are out. How can you form an opinion that these games are good or bad w/o avtually playing them? Are you saying that these games look bad? Because if you think AA looks bad then you must be some insane themepark fanboy. And if you are going to troll, atleast use good grammar.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Meh, for giggles 4 days ago I resubbed to WoW, chose a heavy PvE server (area 52), and started a new toon. I needed something to do! Anyway it was a holiday here in the US and I thought I would check the BGs population. Six players in Alterac Valley, none in AB or in EoTS. I checked for the next couple of hours and it hadn't changed hardly at all. Well, me thinks to myself, it's a holiday I will look tomorrow. Same depressing situation...no one is playing WoW battlegrounds! I'm sure if I hopped around to different battlegroups I would find more, but my point is WoW isn't going to make it another 8 years as it has it's past. The servers and battlegroups will have to start being consolidated and we have seen that with 100s of other games.
OP, I think you are full of spite for GW2. Do not worry, it will be a very noble game to carry WoWs torch. No sub, and if you play it a year that comes out to about .16 cents US a day. Not to shabby!!!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Comments
Not sure how Elder Scrolls Online can even be called an MMO. They said in an article you won't run into people, not to mention it seems like nobody even cares about this game so why are they making it as if people been asking about it for 10 years? I don't think anyone cares about this game....and it's not an MMO.
This is all from your perspective. I personally don't like the way a bunch of games are seemingly shaping up, but there are a few cool looking ones coming, in my opinion.
I am hyped for The Secret World and especially ArcheAge. I am also really interested in the Game of Thrones title, that looks like it might have some promise.
But like I said, it is all perspective.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
So what?
Really what does it matter if WoW is the most sucessful mmo. Just play something you enjoy.
As you get older you find you that you don't care what other people think of you. Same thing here applies.
Planetside 2 will get your heart beating.
Do you consider yourself special and therefore need a special game that is the end all be all of gaming? Extremely unrealistic.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I see plenty of hope
2012 is shaping up to be a good year for mmo releases, none of them seem "wow inspired"
- Guild Wars 2
- Neverwinter
- Secret World
- TERA
in contrast,
2011 gave us 3 mmos
2 games largely inspired by WOW (RIFT and SWTOR) and DCUO
will any of the 2012 mmos be a threat to blizzard? no
but it gives players more choices in what mmo to play
EQ2 fan sites
You never can be really sure about that. Ok, none of them will force Blizz to close down Wow but they might take a bite out of Wows already bleeding subs. I know more than one person who prebought GW2 and plan to close down the Wow account at launch.
I don't see how you can say that... WoW isn't what it used too, and we have a hand full of games that will cater to a bunch of different play styles. (don't confuse that statement with WoW killer)
GW2, PS2, AA, TSW, EoC. I think the problem with WoW is, is that those playing it and raiding, do NOT want to start over, they've developed multiple characters over years and put in literally months of playtime into them. While they may get bored with the system, there is still enough to do to keep them from starting over.
IMHO the only "WoW killer" is WoW and Blizzard itself. So get off your fanboi seat, and stop expecting every new game to cater to millions of players at once. But do expect all the new games coming out to cater to more players than WoW has. Not one at a time, but all together there is a huge market for these companies, and they will do perfectly fine with or without WoW numbers.
And i'm sorry but to think WoW will be top dog for another 8 years is laughable. Blizzard maybe. I see them offering WoW subbers a special bonus or discount for getting into their new MMO, but to say World of Warcraft will be #1 for almost another decade is fanboism at its finest.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
^Truth. I wish everyone thought this way.
It bothers me to no end when MMO's release and within days people are spouting their opinions on the future of the game.
And all of a sudden, the games success reminds me of a stock in the stock market.
An mmo can do well or tank depending on peoples fears.
I do. I see 3. GW2, TSW and ArcheAge. Having already had a chance to play 2 of those 3, my "fast heart beats???" are still pounding away while I wait for them to launch. You ARE cynical. Also, don't assume that because you don't like what's coming out, that others will be on your bandwagon with you. Matter of fact, you are a minority with your viewpoint at this current time.
I see what your saying with the MMO community fanning out over many games but I think the result of this will be a much smaller overall MMO user base. Wow will not be around in 8 years let alone on top, but I don't think any game or games will replace it. I really feel that while MMO's are not dying they are over their peak. I think lastly effect of SWTOR's failure to grab a large sub base will be felt for years in the MMO world with regards to companies just unwilling to put large sums of money into MMO development. Hopefully GW2 does good cause if it does not live up to the hype and say Elder Scrolls crashes that might really kill large development of MMO's. I do not think regardless that any game even Wow will ever reach what Wow had before.
I see the future moving more into the Diablo 3 system. Single player with online groups and PvP with probably lots of added content and probably f2p style item shops added in. Diablo 3's 6.7M units sold in a week I think kind of gives us a hint that in this current climate of gaming this style reaches out to more people then MMO's do at the moment. I think game makers will look at this and see a larger pool of people, games that cost less to make then MMO's and have a better looking profit to risk ratio for them.
So while MMO's are not dead the glory days of them being the king of at least PC gaming is over and IMO(and it justs a opinion people I don't have a crystal ball or am saying this is def going to happen) you will see a mix of the MMO and single player genres become the new king of gaming.
I wish more companies thought this way.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Plenty, but whenever people bring up the different directions that companies go they are always met with "That's not a real MMO." It's a silly circle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think GW2 is going to have a huge dedicated following,but a large portion of the people in GW2 will still be playing WOW.The only mmo I see truly having a shot at knocking WOW to it's knees is Titan.I believe it will be another Blizzard game that dominates and takes WOW down a few notches.Then Titan will rule the next decade.
TESO in my opinion will go down just like TOR.I looked at some ss and it looked eerily like LOTRO in the pics I saw.
Hear hear!! +1
It's amazing how many people don't seem to understand that there are those of us who LIKE these kinds of challenges, these kinds of logistical problems that we have to figure out how to get around. The feeling that you get when you figure out, on your own or perhaps with a couple of friends, a perfect work-around to those completely unexpected and often quite brilliant problems/risks that other players present, so that you can legitimately say "Ha ha, missed me, f*ck you you losers!"...that is very, VERY satisfying.
That's why I play Eve myself, and probably why a good chunk of the current player-base does too.
Where's the any key?
Most of the people here will play ArcheAge in a year or two, and will laugh at the mention of someone still playing WoW.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
pretty much yeah.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I agree and disagree at the same time. Myself will never play a Diablo type game and consider it my "MMO". I don't want city hub type game. I think the MMO market actualy has more players now than it did 5 years ago, it's just spread out because of all the MMOs.
I mean the market is changing no doubt, with F2P, B2P still a sub base, it's changing for sure. But on the part with GW2 with ES:O i completely agree, if both those games don't get a good chunk, or make it seem worth it in the devs eyes, then yea i see some change like more Diablo based games coming out. But i also think Diablo caters to a different group, I see Diablo as an in between game, not something i would put a ton of time into but a between the games game haha, I see it kind of like my FPS i play, Ghost Recon, BF3, those sold a sheit ton of copies, way more than 6.7 mil
But that caters to a different fan base, and i don't see Diablo type games filling that MMO feel for atleast a few million.
I agree with you on the glory days though, we won't see a WoW type sub base again unless we get 50 million MMO players across all games. The reason i say this is there is too much choice now. Back in 2004 there was what 3-5 big games? DAoC, UO, SWG(?), EQ and the like. Now we got..... well go to the game list and see for yourself
There is probably 20 games that hold a solid player base, where back then there was only those 3-5 that held a "large" subscriber base.(there were plenty more games i know)
Honestly i'm putting my money more on PS2 now, and games like that. I LOVE FPS but i hate how small the matches are, i want a WAR not a bar fight, 12v12 isnt a freaking WAR, thats like 2 mercany groups slapping each other. Sadly i never heard of PlanetSide so i never tried it, but looking at games like PS2 i think it could draw a large crowd over from the BF3/CoD crowd (maybe not CoD cause thats like E-sport WoW style, Just 8v8 team battles is what they care about). This is a tough subject cause it's like we have so many good sounding games coming out, but thats how it's been for the last 2-3 years and nothing has followed through for us.
Another thing on D3 real quick, i think it's biggest selling point was Blizzard, topped off with Diablo name. I think the REAL test to see if games like such will take off will be TL2, if TL2 gets a big follower base, then yeah i see it taking off, but D3 IMO sold that many because of Blizz and the name, not much else.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Innovation in MMORPGs? Since when? The last significant ANYTHING in MMORPGs since 2004 are 3 things.
1. WoW's unprecedented, still unreplicated success by anyone else in the MMORPG genre.
2. Many have tried to rise in dethroning WoW. Many have been found dead or dying along the side of that treacherous road of MMORPG Games.
3. The last real "innovation" in MMORPGs is F2P, which is really just a sneaky way of snaking money out of your wallet.
And that's it.
MMORPGs.
M - It's not as "Massive" with so many titles dividing up the game world and populace into smaller, and smaller subsections. I mean, you and a friend can be literally standing next to each other in the proper X, Y, and Z coordinates, but you won't see each other because you're in different instances of the same region. That's a serious downgrade in "Massive" from when MMORPGs were newer.
M - They may still be "Multiplayer" capable, but in general practice, groups have become the rarity as the years have progressed with MMORPGs. I recall some games even penalizing players in XPs while being in a group. Then there's the unstoppable trend for "Solo Friendliness," to the extreme point that you don't need to deal with *anybody* to reach level cap. No need to group. No need to purchase gear and services from other players, because following your questline like a good little rodent nets you just rewards. Rewards that are oftenly better than anything a player can ever provide you. MMORPGs in general have killed the "Multiplayer" aspect of the genre's name. Oh, SWTOR, how nice of you to show up...
O - Well, that's the only thing that MMORPGs still have. They require you to be online. Not so hard, is it?
Now, in terms of players playing and the money being generated, I think MMORPGs have skyrocketed past any dreams from 1998. But in terms of what exactly "MMORPG" means and the gameplay involved, I think the genre has regressed terribly, and is rotten in its core.
And I don't see it changing for a long time. I don't agree with WoW dominating for "another 8 years" as the OP says, but I think the eventual new king will be the same. Even the most recent, biggest named, expensively developed challenger to the throne, SWTOR, tried in its heart of hearts to immulate whatever it possibly could from WoW. This title, having the fabled "Star Wars" name, the deep pockets of EA / BioWare / Lucasarts, and having the attentions of one of the most famed game developers out there, BioWare... was literally afraid of trying anything different from WoW. Its own developers openly said that it was stupid to stray from WoW's model. With the reputation, influence, and money that BioWare had to make SWTOR, and still be completely derivative and regressing on what MMORPG traits are, should be very telling on the state of this genre.
Since 2004, every developer out there has tried, tried, and tried again in copying WoW's success. They see the bountiful fruits it has generated Blizzard, and their mouths are watering for a piece of that WoW Pie. Yet none of them have come even halfway close to being as successful.
And it still hasn't stopped developers from trying to replicate the exact steps, repeating the failures of others, yet they're still hoping for success.
There's a word for that.
It's called Insanity.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Innovation is a tricky and often subjective thing. For example, let someone name the innovations in other gaming genres and you'll probably have a number of people that'll say that in one form or the other those so called innovations have been around for far longer than the one who mentioned them has thought.
So, let's put innovations and feature evolutions or normbreakers into one bunch to avoid bickering about it, and see what has risen among them since WoW. Oh, and this includes innovations/evolutions that people might dislike in MMO's, obviously.
automated public and dynamic quests: Warhammer and CO had it, it evolved into something more with Rift and GW2 with dynamic PvE changes in an area.
phasing: seen mostly and most actively in WoW, SWTOR uses it for class quest areas
cross server dungeons/PvP areas: seen in WoW and Rift
player made quests and PvE content: anyone ever seen how the Foundry works in STO? Is looking pretty special, not just merely a fetch/kill/bounty task list you give, but more elaborate into a whole designed mission area and questlines that come with it. The Storybricks MMO will take this tooling even way further.
action oriented combat: I haven't seen combat like Vindictus or TERA being used in MMO's pre-WoW, certainly not to that degree. Watch a couple of gameplay videos of Vindictus, the situational and environment impact and influences on combat is quite impressive.
interactive synergy in team skills: I don't know how to better describe it, but it's the situation where skills and attacks of different players start to bounce off eachother's effects to larger result. Like in GW2 how player A can create a poison or fire area while player B will create a poison or fire arrow by shooting it through the affected area. Or like in TSW where player A will put a creature into a burning state with an attack, that for player B will trigger his passive skill that'll cause an AoE explosion effect around that creature bc of its burning state.
multipath quests: quests that can have different outcomes or paths based on decisions players make. Seen in SWTOR quests and GW2's Personal Story
appearance tab: LotrO, EQ2
automated level scaling: your level adjusts to the area you travel in (genius feature, every MMO should have it!)
Let me think for some more, I think I can come up with some others too.
In any case, more than just F2P or such as only innovation introduced.
add: some others:
multiple version dungeons: haven't played them yet, but from what I understand in both GW2 and SWTOR the dungeon has some different states it can be in based on player decisions or random factor. Hellgate had completely random generated dungeons/areas
adventure game elements: things like puzzles that need to be solved to move forward, in much the same way as you find in adventure games. TSW will use the vast ocean of real world information that you have to pluck the answers from that you need.
RTS elements in PvP warfare: GW2's WvW will have it, with mines, mills, caravans that all contribute to the available resources that keeps will have and can use for fortification and building, in much the same way that's seen in RTS games like WC3 or SC
No light? Lemme name some games for you.
The BIG ONEs: Archeage and Guild Wars 2
Smaller ones: The Repopulation, Embers of Caerus, Pathfinder Online, and Life is Feudal.
All these titles have ONE thing in common. They are different in many ways to WoW.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Can you name some games are actually good?
Excuse me? None of these games are out. How can you form an opinion that these games are good or bad w/o avtually playing them? Are you saying that these games look bad? Because if you think AA looks bad then you must be some insane themepark fanboy. And if you are going to troll, atleast use good grammar.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Meh, for giggles 4 days ago I resubbed to WoW, chose a heavy PvE server (area 52), and started a new toon. I needed something to do! Anyway it was a holiday here in the US and I thought I would check the BGs population. Six players in Alterac Valley, none in AB or in EoTS. I checked for the next couple of hours and it hadn't changed hardly at all. Well, me thinks to myself, it's a holiday I will look tomorrow. Same depressing situation...no one is playing WoW battlegrounds! I'm sure if I hopped around to different battlegroups I would find more, but my point is WoW isn't going to make it another 8 years as it has it's past. The servers and battlegroups will have to start being consolidated and we have seen that with 100s of other games.
OP, I think you are full of spite for GW2. Do not worry, it will be a very noble game to carry WoWs torch. No sub, and if you play it a year that comes out to about .16 cents US a day. Not to shabby!!!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.