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Crafting and the Cash Shop

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  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by atziluth
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    Game breaking is your words not mine.  The hyperbole is yours not mine.  The unreasonable emotion is yours not mine.  There is no hate in my OP.  Therefore the shoe must be on the other foot.  Pyschologoical projection is an amazing thing.

    You think things like this aren't important.  You think rare materials weren't THE MAIN ITEMS FOR HOLDING VALUE  in GW1?  Cuz if you do you are wrong.

    Please here is 35 gems.  Buy a clue.  There are number of post in this thread make good counter arguments.  But you just label with ad hominen and then attempt to trivialize something you clearly don't understand.  There is a reason I am not writing this response to fiontar, its because he makes good points.  This is drivel.

    Meh I will probably get temp banned for telling two people the truth but whatever, its happened before.

    Is GW2 crafting system anything like GW1? No.

    Will rare items hold value which will fluctuate in value depending on the market? Yes.

    Will that market be cross server making fluctuations rather minimal? Probably, but we won't be able to tell until months after release.

    Can the perfect kit be purchased through gems bought with in game currancy? Yes!

    Does that directly impact the availibility of said CS product to the masses? YES!

    Does that diminish the advantage of CS buyers? YES!

    Does time = CS expenditures even without the ability to purchase CS items with in game currency? YES!

    So while people blowing loads of money in the CS have a slight advantage in time investment, that is where the advantage ends period. Now add that items of equal quality can be gained directly through numerous other FREE avenues... and suddenly and measurable advantage dissappears. So my appologies for calling you a hater... You are however making an issue where there is none... For competative PvP these items will literally be worthless. So implying that it is a big deal (end of your OP) is overly dramatic and misleading. You can make excuses to the contrary, but that does not change the ham fisted way you tried to rile up the critics on this board. 

    Sometime the truth does that. Better to get it all out now, than later. The way this shop is and will be used should not be defended by down playing.  NCsoft/Anet need you to support it. You should be saying "hell yeah, I can't wait to by the rare kits!"

  • FonclFoncl UppsalaPosts: 197Member

    It's up to everyone to decide for themselves if they think it's ok or not, I don't think it's ok personally. If the game was F2P I would try it and see how I felt about the cash shop since the game seems to have potential, I'm not willing to pay for the box of a game with items beyond cosmetic items in the cash shop however.

  • ThrashbargThrashbarg lions arch, ORPosts: 125Member
    Originally posted by Foncl

    It's up to everyone to decide for themselves if they think it's ok or not, I don't think it's ok personally. If the game was F2P I would try it and see how I felt about the cash shop since the game seems to have potential, I'm not willing to pay for the box of a game with items beyond cosmetic items in the cash shop however.

    They basically do amount to cosmetic items, as gear with the same stats will be available by other means as well. The only differences between gear will be the way it looks. 

    There are more than just cosmetic items though. Some convinience items as well, more bag and bank space mostly. Nothing that gives an unfair advantage in PvP.

    image

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member

    I find it extremely amusing the amount of foaming and frothing about something that:

    A) Does not influence the game in any significant matter,

    B) Is not released in its final iteration yet,

    C) can be found in the game,

    D) can be purchased with regular gold.

    Frankly, folks, if that's the best (or worst) people can complain about GW2, I think we have a real winner in our hands.

    I can picture it... "Haha, I bought a Rare Salvage Kit. Now I will be.... invincibleeeeeeeee!"

    Let's try to be marginally rational, please.

  • DJJazzyDJJazzy louisville, COPosts: 2,053Member
    Originally posted by StrixMaxima

    Let's try to be marginally rational, please.

    That's asking quite a bit on an internet video game forum.

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member
    Originally posted by DJJazzy

    That's asking quite a bit on an internet video game forum.

    I am an optimistic naïve =)

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by DJJazzy
    Originally posted by StrixMaxima

    Let's try to be marginally rational, please.

    That's asking quite a bit on an internet video game forum.

    As long as it can be obtained in game, it's ok to be sold in the cash shop? That's the argument here, right?

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,503Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    Just so you know, they set the price for buying gems with gold and vice versa artificially in beta.

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    As long as it can be obtained in game, it's ok to be sold in the cash shop? That's the argument here, right?

    No. I listed some reasons right above the post you quoted. I am sure you didn't miss it, and quoted this by accident =)

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by StrixMaxima

    I find it extremely amusing the amount of foaming and frothing about something that:

    A) Does not influence the game in any significant matter,

    B) Is not released in its final iteration yet,

    C) can be found in the game,

    D) can be purchased with regular gold.

    Frankly, folks, if that's the best (or worst) people can complain about GW2, I think we have a real winner in our hands.

    I can picture it... "Haha, I bought a Rare Salvage Kit. Now I will be.... invincibleeeeeeeee!"

    Let's try to be marginally rational, please.

    So as long as it can be obtained in game, it's ok to be sold in the cash shop? That's the argument, right?

     

    There I quoted  your original post. That was the argument you were making right? You don't have to respond. I'm pretty sure that's what you were saying.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    Just so you know, they set the price for buying gems with gold and vice versa artificially in beta.

    Yeah, I know that. The point is, money flows quite easily, and 35 gems is chump change for something that's not a vital piece of the game in the first place. Considering you'd only need that Kit on very specific, very rare salvage (the normal kits will do for the bulk of your loot) a 5 pack will last you a very long time. The price in gems for that, is very generous, and in no way a big deal. 

    People seem to want the cash shop to be completely irrelevant. This is not an 8bit game, it takes money to build it and continue adding to it content-wise. There needs to be ~some~ incentive to use the cash shop, and so far Anet's been doing a fine job of walking that line between convenience and power. Something like this, a kit that allows you a higher (but still not 100%) chance of salvaging rare craft mats that you will already be swimming in, can be traded on auction house, and farmed by your own hand, should fall pretty low on the list of concerns.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    So as long as it can be obtained in game, it's ok to be sold in the cash shop? That's the argument, right?

     

    There I quoted  your original post. That was the argument you were making right? You don't have to respond. I'm pretty sure that's what you were saying.

    Why do you choose to avoid A and B (which come first, no less)? Are they kinda harder to rebuke?

    I'll just skip the next sarcastic repartee and will go straight to the answer:

    If it doesn't produce a negative effect in the game balance, if it can be bought in game, via game gold, yes, it is perfectly OK by me.

  • letsxhatletsxhat battle creek, MIPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by StrixMaxima
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    So as long as it can be obtained in game, it's ok to be sold in the cash shop? That's the argument, right?

     

    There I quoted  your original post. That was the argument you were making right? You don't have to respond. I'm pretty sure that's what you were saying.

    Why do you choose to avoid A and B (which come first, no less)? Are they kinda harder to rebuke?

    I'll just skip the next sarcastic repartee and will go straight to the answer:

    If it doesn't produce a negative effect in the game balance, if it can be bought in game, via game gold, yes, it is perfectly OK by me.

    Ok since it can be bought in game, it's ok to sell in the cash shop, because how could something that can be obtained in game "produce a negative effect" just because someone bought it from the cash shop. A,B,C,D. Gotcha.  

  • StrixMaximaStrixMaxima SPosts: 884Member
    Originally posted by letsxhat

    Ok since it can be bought in game, it's ok to sell in the cash shop, because how could something that can be obtained in game "produce a negative effect" just because someone bought it from the cash shop. A,B,C,D. Gotcha.  

    Well, since you are denser than osmium, I'll make it real easy on you:

    An Item Shop should not sell items that interfere in the game balance (numerical aspect, combat-wise). Extrapolating from this golden rule, we can also assume that, in the case discussed by the OP, the Rare Salvage thingy, it is also perfectly ok, because it satisfied the golden rule, and as a bonus, it can also be purchased via gems, a currency that can be obtained within the game.

    Thus, is does not alienate anyone from purchasing it, should they decide to do so. Some will prefer to spend real money purchasing it, helping to keep the servers running for the guys who think Item Shops are the spawn of Astaroth.

    Both keep playing, both are happy, the company profits, the servers are kept on, no one has an unfair advantage derived from an external source.

    Go on, cherry-pick this one, too.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon

    It's not really the cash shop or what it sells that ring any alarms for me, it's availablity being put in the hands of players. Letting the community decide these things doesn't always have a fair end result. It often can lead to it's own form of grind and rewarding only the hardcore ( example being certain SWG servers). Many had a disgusting level of have's and have nots based on in-game wealth (time played). I hope Anet keeps an eye on this early on.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • illeriller Aspen''s 4th hole, COPosts: 510Member
    Originally posted by gestalt11

     

    You just called me liar?  That is some sense of arrogance.  Your fanboyism has driven you barking mad.

    Uninformed?  That is the OFFICIAL frigging wiki.  OFFICIAL.

     

    I posted very little in the way of negative statments or pejorative.  I simply put out some freely available information.  And my posting history about GW2 has been informed and positive.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

     

    Yes indeed.  You are carelessly spreading misinformation.    I'm a Guildwars Wiki contributor and have been for half a decade.  I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the way we add information to the Wiki does not rely on digging into the  .DAT file to mine it, or collaborating directly with the Developers unless it's done in Q&A rounds on their Talk pages or came from an interview they were quoted in.  It's always public so it's always clean data. & At no point was it ever stated by anyone official that the only means to get Perfect Salvage kits was from the Cash Shop.  Other means of attaining them simply have not been uploaded because they are not "Official" until someone can screenshot them inside the client.  And there will be other ways besides personal story rewards as well.

    Or maybe you're just jumping the gun.   Either way, this thread was not based on patience and when it comes to the wiki, patience is a must.  Some unresolved Notes and information (especially with item-acquiring & bugs) can take months to come to a consensus on.

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    Just so you know, they set the price for buying gems with gold and vice versa artificially in beta.

    Yeah, I know that. The point is, money flows quite easily, and 35 gems is chump change for something that's not a vital piece of the game in the first place. Considering you'd only need that Kit on very specific, very rare salvage (the normal kits will do for the bulk of your loot) a 5 pack will last you a very long time. The price in gems for that, is very generous, and in no way a big deal. 

    People seem to want the cash shop to be completely irrelevant. This is not an 8bit game, it takes money to build it and continue adding to it content-wise. There needs to be ~some~ incentive to use the cash shop, and so far Anet's been doing a fine job of walking that line between convenience and power. Something like this, a kit that allows you a higher (but still not 100%) chance of salvaging rare craft mats that you will already be swimming in, can be traded on auction house, and farmed by your own hand, should fall pretty low on the list of concerns.

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    If it was a 100% F2P game most people wouldn't be saying a word about the cash shop as it would be expected.  If it was a sub game the vast majority of people would have a problem with the cash shop as it currently shows in this game.  But it's not either of those is it?  You buy the game for a upfront cost than pay nothing beyond what you spend on gems each month until a expansion is released at which point you buy that as well.

    It seems like Anet wants the best of both worlds.  Sell a game for a box fee, sell expansions at full price, and have a healthy cash shop in game.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by udon

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    So are expansions free in "pay to play" MMORPGs since money is coming from the subscriptions?

    Seems to me that all those "pay to  play" games want the best of both worlds - sell the initial box at a hefty price ($50 or more), get $15 from everybody each month AND make them pay for expansions too.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by udon

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    So are expansions free in "pay to play" MMORPGs since money is coming from the subscriptions?

    Seems to me that all those "pay to  play" games want the best of both worlds - sell the initial box at a hefty price ($50 or more), get $15 from everybody each month AND make them pay for expansions too.

    Pay to play games for the most part (the few left) have a fair amount of free content in between expansions.  I didn't play GW's for long but I never got the impression they released any content that wasn't in a pay expansion.  Also with the exception of WoW you only have to purchase the latest expansion to get all the past content in most P2P MMO's.  Finally GW's released expansions on a much faster schedule than P2P MMO's do because they don't release free content as filler between them.

    Now I know I'm assuming GW2 will follow the same content plan that GW's had but I don't know how anyone can assume otherwise unless the studio gives a clear indication that they are changing stratagies.

    Games like the MW series manage to keep the servers running on expansions alone and still make a decent profit why can't GW2?

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by udon

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    So are expansions free in "pay to play" MMORPGs since money is coming from the subscriptions?

    Seems to me that all those "pay to  play" games want the best of both worlds - sell the initial box at a hefty price ($50 or more), get $15 from everybody each month AND make them pay for expansions too.

    Pay to play games for the most part (the few left) have a fair amount of free content in between expansions.  I didn't play GW's for long but I never got the impression they released any content that wasn't in a pay expansion.  Also with the exception of WoW you only have to purchase the latest expansion to get all the past content in most P2P MMO's.  Finally GW's released expansions on a much faster schedule than P2P MMO's do because they don't release free content as filler between them.

    Now I know I'm assuming GW2 will follow the same content plan that GW's had but I don't know how anyone can assume otherwise unless the studio gives a clear indication that they are changing stratagies.

    Games like the MW series manage to keep the servers running on expansions alone and still make a decent profit why can't GW2?

    Pay to play games also have a "safe" income every month - no matter how you twist it, if you want to play, you HAVE to pay the monthly fee. This is definitely not true in GW2, anyone who has played the game can tell you that - you can keep on playing without paying a cent if you want to - that's a fact. You can even keep on playing without buying the latest expansion if you're really out of money. Games like GW2 rely 100% on "unsafe" income.

    Yes, developers need to live too, they also have families to feed. Some people seem to expect stuff to be handed to them for free, or almost - well, the world doesn't work that way, like most human beings with a job and a family know.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    Just so you know, they set the price for buying gems with gold and vice versa artificially in beta.

    Yeah, I know that. The point is, money flows quite easily, and 35 gems is chump change for something that's not a vital piece of the game in the first place. Considering you'd only need that Kit on very specific, very rare salvage (the normal kits will do for the bulk of your loot) a 5 pack will last you a very long time. The price in gems for that, is very generous, and in no way a big deal. 

    People seem to want the cash shop to be completely irrelevant. This is not an 8bit game, it takes money to build it and continue adding to it content-wise. There needs to be ~some~ incentive to use the cash shop, and so far Anet's been doing a fine job of walking that line between convenience and power. Something like this, a kit that allows you a higher (but still not 100%) chance of salvaging rare craft mats that you will already be swimming in, can be traded on auction house, and farmed by your own hand, should fall pretty low on the list of concerns.

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    If it was a 100% F2P game most people wouldn't be saying a word about the cash shop as it would be expected.  If it was a sub game the vast majority of people would have a problem with the cash shop as it currently shows in this game.  But it's not either of those is it?  You buy the game for a upfront cost than pay nothing beyond what you spend on gems each month until a expansion is released at which point you buy that as well.

    It seems like Anet wants the best of both worlds.  Sell a game for a box fee, sell expansions at full price, and have a healthy cash shop in game.

    Could you possibly be a larger hypocrit? It's almost not even worth pointing this out, it should be so blatantly obvious. GW2 is not F2P, nor is it P2P so really, your argument is invalid right from this point. But let's keep going anyway; it's B2P, and it's following the original model of GW1 which *gasp* you purchased the box and expansions for, but also had a cash shop of non-essential items. Worked just fine, played it for years and never had to spend a dime outside of purchasing the expansions. 

    And while we're on the topic, shall we list off the MMOs that have, for years, had both expansions you have to pay for as well as an item mall? World of Warcraft, DCUO, City of Heroes, EQ 1/2, LoTRO-actually, why don't we just save a bit of time and say oh, I dunno...most of them?

    Except that...wait for it...there's no sub fee! I am aware that several of the above mentioned games have switched to an optional-sub model, but that's been to roll with the times because it's what consumers want. So, yes, Anet is hoping to make money both off the expansions and the item mall in-game. As opposed to expansions + sub fee. It's a trade of one for the other, except that in the case of the former, people still get to play the game they bought without spending more money every month whether they want to or not. 

    These kinds of arguments are hilarious. How do people not realize that, if they really wanted to, they could throw $15 a month at this item mall as if it were a P2P game - seeing as that seems to be a standard people are comfortable with - and in its current state, completely buy it out in 2-3 months and still have gems left over to sell to someone else? If an expansion came out every 6 months (minimum, they've claimed), and charged "full box price" of $60 (which you can't claim they will, as it is outside the practiced norm, and they didn't charge box price for their first expansion, GWEN), you'd still be spending less than you would for a P2P game.

    P2P - box + 6 month sub = 60 + 13.99*6 (usually lowered if you purchase 6 months at once) = 143.94

    B2P - box + expansion = 60 + 60 (unlikely, but for the sake of argument, whatever) = 120

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by udon

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    So are expansions free in "pay to play" MMORPGs since money is coming from the subscriptions?

    Seems to me that all those "pay to  play" games want the best of both worlds - sell the initial box at a hefty price ($50 or more), get $15 from everybody each month AND make them pay for expansions too.

    Pay to play games for the most part (the few left) have a fair amount of free content in between expansions.  I didn't play GW's for long but I never got the impression they released any content that wasn't in a pay expansion.  Also with the exception of WoW you only have to purchase the latest expansion to get all the past content in most P2P MMO's.  Finally GW's released expansions on a much faster schedule than P2P MMO's do because they don't release free content as filler between them.

    Now I know I'm assuming GW2 will follow the same content plan that GW's had but I don't know how anyone can assume otherwise unless the studio gives a clear indication that they are changing stratagies.

    Games like the MW series manage to keep the servers running on expansions alone and still make a decent profit why can't GW2?

    They've been releasing free content for over a year now, and it's very in-depth content, in some places completely changing the world the player is in (Winds of Change), and the content for the next part in the line that explains the changes of Elona is in pre-production. As for GW2, they've already stated there were going to be both paid and free content updates.

     

    "GB: Subscription MMOs like World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic offer free content updates besides paid-for expansion packs. What are your plans for expanding and improving Guild Wars 2 long-term? Can customers expect any content additions for free, or will they only come in the form of expansion packs?

    O’Brien: We’ll have both. Players can expect the same level of ongoing support from Guild Wars 2 as they would expect from any top-tier MMO."

    http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/#s:guildwars2-16

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,768Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    Originally posted by udon
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    125 gems for a 5 pack of Perfect Salvage kits.

    By the end of the beta going from 1-30, on one character, I had 53 silver. That silver bought me over 400 gems.

     

    Things like this are precisely why people need to play the game before forming opinions on its mechanics.

     

    EDIT - by the way, that's 53 silver AFTER spending the money on craft mats I needed to get my crafts to 150 + deck myself out in Mastercraft level 30 everything +12 slot bags.

    Just so you know, they set the price for buying gems with gold and vice versa artificially in beta.

    Yeah, I know that. The point is, money flows quite easily, and 35 gems is chump change for something that's not a vital piece of the game in the first place. Considering you'd only need that Kit on very specific, very rare salvage (the normal kits will do for the bulk of your loot) a 5 pack will last you a very long time. The price in gems for that, is very generous, and in no way a big deal. 

    People seem to want the cash shop to be completely irrelevant. This is not an 8bit game, it takes money to build it and continue adding to it content-wise. There needs to be ~some~ incentive to use the cash shop, and so far Anet's been doing a fine job of walking that line between convenience and power. Something like this, a kit that allows you a higher (but still not 100%) chance of salvaging rare craft mats that you will already be swimming in, can be traded on auction house, and farmed by your own hand, should fall pretty low on the list of concerns.

    So are expansions going to be free since money is coming from a cash shop?

    If it was a 100% F2P game most people wouldn't be saying a word about the cash shop as it would be expected.  If it was a sub game the vast majority of people would have a problem with the cash shop as it currently shows in this game.  But it's not either of those is it?  You buy the game for a upfront cost than pay nothing beyond what you spend on gems each month until a expansion is released at which point you buy that as well.

    It seems like Anet wants the best of both worlds.  Sell a game for a box fee, sell expansions at full price, and have a healthy cash shop in game.

    Could you possibly be a larger hypocrit? It's almost not even worth pointing this out, it should be so blatantly obvious. GW2 is not F2P, nor is it P2P so really, your argument is invalid right from this point. But let's keep going anyway; it's B2P, and it's following the original model of GW1 which *gasp* you purchased the box and expansions for, but also had a cash shop of non-essential items. Worked just fine, played it for years and never had to spend a dime outside of purchasing the expansions. 

    And while we're on the topic, shall we list off the MMOs that have, for years, had both expansions you have to pay for as well as an item mall? World of Warcraft, DCUO, City of Heroes, EQ 1/2, LoTRO-actually, why don't we just save a bit of time and say oh, I dunno...most of them?

    Except that...wait for it...there's no sub fee! I am aware that several of the above mentioned games have switched to an optional-sub model, but that's been to roll with the times because it's what consumers want. So, yes, Anet is hoping to make money both off the expansions and the item mall in-game. As opposed to expansions + sub fee. It's a trade of one for the other, except that in the case of the former, people still get to play the game they bought without spending more money every month whether they want to or not. 

    These kinds of arguments are hilarious. How do people not realize that, if they really wanted to, they could throw $15 a month at this item mall as if it were a P2P game - seeing as that seems to be a standard people are comfortable with - and in its current state, completely buy it out in 2-3 months and still have gems left over to sell to someone else? If an expansion came out every 6 months (minimum, they've claimed), and charged "full box price" of $60 (which you can't claim they will, as it is outside the practiced norm, and they didn't charge box price for their first expansion, GWEN), you'd still be spending less than you would for a P2P game.

    P2P - box + 6 month sub = 60 + 13.99*6 (usually lowered if you purchase 6 months at once) = 143.94

    B2P - box + expansion = 60 + 60 (unlikely, but for the sake of argument, whatever) = 120

    I would 100% agree with you if it wasnt for a few items in the GW2 item mall.  I don't like the keys you can buy for gems that open chests that drop in game.  Noboby but Anet knows what the drop ratio of keys to chests in game will be but I would bet it's not 1 to 1 and even if it is for beta it's a very simple change to make.  The crafting stuff also bothers me a bit but again it depends on the ratio of in game to cash shop drop rates are set.  Finally a few of the potions bug me.

    I have seen what cash shops do to games.  Can you honestly sit there and say that the GW2 cash shop has not influanced design decisions in the game from zones layout, leveling speed, drop rates, to monster design?  And do you honestly believe those decisions where based on whats best for you or whats best for Anet's bottom line?

  • p_c_sousap_c_sousa cartaxoPosts: 620Member

    in bw+stress test i get 3boxes and 1 key. the boxes only give average item, most are useless why bother about keys? i probably go sell all keys and delete boxes

     

    for now dont exist anything that give advantage over other players on shop and because arenanet really listen players i believe will never exist

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