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Can SWTOR be saved?

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  • EletherylEletheryl morenoPosts: 152Member

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/  im not sure if that number include digital sales.

    Is just amazing how the people keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨, at this point is probably de most populated P2P MMO in the west, after WoW, and still we find people here talking about why swtor need to be saved.  Most of the server are dead, mostly because people is waiting for transfers, and not because swtor will lose another 400k subs in the next month, the new superservers will bring people back, because thats what the real swtor players want, and then the LFG tool and the Rated wz, everything is coming with the 1.3 update. BW still have at least 3 more content updates and a ¨space secret proyect¨ for this year, people will quit and come back like everysingle MMO in the past. But lets just keep talking about how the most successful MMO post wow need to be saved.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Eletheryl

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/  im not sure if that number include digital sales.

    Is just amazing how the people keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨, at this point is probably de most populated P2P MMO in the west, after WoW, and still we find people here talking...

     We know it sold around 2.4 million copies...and yet EA announced 1.3 million active subscriptions right after a 30 day free offer was given even to people who canceled as long as they had a Legacy level of what was it 13?

    So, almost 50% of the people that bought it was for SURE gone...and who knows how many only were active because of the 30 free days.

    That is not a sign of a good game...most MMOs lose around 30% of inital buyers...not 50%+.

    Time to start dealing with REALITY and wake Bioware up instead of pretending like all is well so it only gets WORSE. Sometimes I wonder who is against the game the most...the haters or the so called fanboys that are making damn well sure nothing gets fixed.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eletheryl

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/  im not sure if that number include digital sales.

    Is just amazing how the people keep talking about ¨the fail of swtor¨, at this point is probably de most populated P2P MMO in the west, after WoW, and still we find people here talking about why swtor need to be saved.  Most of the server are dead, mostly because people is waiting for transfers, and not because swtor will lose another 400k subs in the next month, the new superservers will bring people back, because thats what the real swtor players want, and then the LFG tool and the Rated wz, everything is coming with the 1.3 update. BW still have at least 3 more content updates and a ¨space secret proyect¨ for this year, people will quit and come back like everysingle MMO in the past. But lets just keep talking about how the most successful MMO post wow need to be saved.

    They might have sold that many copies but folks are not playing.  All one has to do is look here at this http://www.torstatus.net/

    They estimate about 70k folks online at one time with 214 servers nothing masive about that.

    Also look at this thread,

     
    Sorry to have to give you the truth but somebody should.   Not to mention the other threads like http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4485416#post4485416
    and
     
    Things are not going well for ea/bioware I would hate to wrok for them right now after they just fired 200 folks 1/3 of the staff.
     
  • ericlatrelleericlatrelle Sullivan BarracksPosts: 176Member

    I doubt the game will die in a year. But to answer the question, yes it can be saved. The real question is will they do the necessary things that is needed to save it? I doubt it.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    I don't think it can be saved now (it's not going to die anytime soon either).  They are too slow to make changes and content.  At this point the only things to get me back are a switch to F2P/B2P or massive, epic, multiplayer space sim combat missions/raids.  With the massive layoffs that won't happen either.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    And before someone brings up WoW, clearly there is some rampant mental illness among that fan base, because the same criticisms apply, and yet people keep paying.

     Guess the question for you would be how are WoW players different from any other MMO players? People played Everquest and Asherons call for some 5 YEARS before WoW came along.

    It isnt a question of being willing to pay for time, its a question of paying for quality. SWTOR has little real quality outside its storyline...most other MMOs at least try to provide a range of things to do to take up your time and right now, there is no sign at all that Bioware is going ot expand on that any time soon.

    It has very little to do with quality.  No matter how well done a given piece of content is, there is still a limited number of times you can repeat it and have it still be fun.  One can reasonably argue that the story content in TOR is well done enough that unless you just hate modern RPGs, all of it is fun and worth playing.  TOR takes a problem all MMOs face, the fact that if you play for more than a small number of months, all your playtime is dedicated to repetition which necessarily becomes less and less fun over time, and actually makes it *worse* by requiring that repetition in order to get to a substantial portion of the content you haven't seen yet.  In other MMOs, if you have one character in a faction, you get to see virtually everything that faction has to offer, and you don't have to ever repeat some content in order to see other content.

    But as far as your point that other MMOs provide a range of things to do, and your implicit belief that TOR does not, it's a crock.  Once you have experienced all of the content in pretty much any MMO, you are left with a relatively tiny amount of repeatable content which allows you to earn marginally better equipment until the next expansion comes out.  TOR has that, it just doesn't have the massive number of hamster wheel addicts that still populate WoW, so the fact that it is hard to find groups to do the content makes it feel like the content isn't there.  

    But even if there were tons of people repeating the content, it wouldn't address the fundamental problem, that they are expecting people to pay $15.00 a month in order to keep on doing the exact same thing over and over and over again, despite the fact that it becomes some degree less fun with every repetition.  This is not an approach to game management that is in any way customer friendly or demonstrative of creative vision or integrity.  

    If they want more money than what we shelled out for the box, they should have to give us more content in order to get it, and we should get to choose whether that content sounds good enough to pay for.  Essentially, when you look at the updates the game has had so far, and the amount of subscription revenue accrued, update 1.2 was a $60.00 expansion for people who have played the game from the start.  I like some of 1.2, but does anybody really think that it was worth sixty bucks?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • Grand_NagusGrand_Nagus Dublin, GAPosts: 329Member Uncommon

    Personally, I'm waiting on a space expansion to resubscribe. 

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by Terranah

    I think the problem is it's billed as something it's not.  Had it been sold as a single player experience with co op features it could have been very successful. But calling it an mmo is reaching.  

     

    To me, they should have went with box sales, no sub, dlc for expansions and specialty item/packs.  In a different genre with a different set of expectations I think the game would do alright.

     

    They also need to fix bugs.  Some of the bugs I experienced were fixed, but others like the inability to fix my light side points bug made me question their programming acumen.  My guild tab was bugged, and many times my groups ability to start a flashpoint together was bugged where one or more of us could would not be able to join in the quest dialogue to get social points.  There were wierd things like this that are really fundamental to the experience that were not corrected when I left.  It does not bode well for the game.

     

     

    Wouldn't make a difference for me - they couldn't pay ME to play SWTOR again. The only thing that will save SWTOR is if it's sold to another company that will actually do something with it....starting with an entirely new game engine.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    It has very little to do with quality.  No matter how well done a given piece of content is, there is still a limited number of times you can repeat it and have it still be fun.  

     I am sorry but that is completely obsurd...

    According to you all content is created equally because its just a matter of time before you become sick of it...if that is the case, all MMORPGs are the same no matter what and there is no longer a point for anyone to ever discuss anything about MMOs again.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member

    It can't be saved because there is something missing from the game, the MMO part of it. Ever since they started dumbing MMO down and removing the multiplayer from them, they took it too far.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by qombi

    It can't be saved because there is something missing from the game, the MMO part of it. Ever since they started dumbing MMO down and removing the multiplayer from them, they took it too far.

    This isn't a fair statement.  Go down a list of elements contained in major MMOs, and TOR either has (or will be getting in 1.3) every single one of them.  The main problem with TOR is that the subscription model is a load of crap.  WoW is a fluke.   A business model that charges people monthly while only giving them new content sporadically just isn't a good idea.  Seriously, how many conversations would there be about "saving" TOR if it was B2P?  We would have the total sales number, which is still impressive, without a lowered subscriber number to compare it to, and people wouldn't be as worried about the quality of possible update content, because if it looked like it sucked, they just wouldn't pay for it.

     

    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    It has very little to do with quality.  No matter how well done a given piece of content is, there is still a limited number of times you can repeat it and have it still be fun.  

     I am sorry but that is completely obsurd...

    According to you all content is created equally because its just a matter of time before you become sick of it...if that is the case, all MMORPGs are the same no matter what and there is no longer a point for anyone to ever discuss anything about MMOs again.

    That's not what I am saying at all.  The fact that some content takes more repetitions before it stops being fun doesn't change the reality that any particular piece of content, no matter how high the quality, will eventually stop being fun.  Which is why game companies should be charging for content, not charging for play time, because every additional hour spent repeating an hour's worth of content that you have already played is worth less than the hour before, and yet they keep charging us the same rate for it.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • EletherylEletheryl morenoPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by qombi

    It can't be saved because there is something missing from the game, the MMO part of it. Ever since they started dumbing MMO down and removing the multiplayer from them, they took it too far.

    This isn't a fair statement.  Go down a list of elements contained in major MMOs, and TOR either has (or will be getting in 1.3) every single one of them.  The main problem with TOR is that the subscription model is a load of crap.  WoW is a fluke.   A business model that charges people monthly while only giving them new content sporadically just isn't a good idea.  Seriously, how many conversations would there be about "saving" TOR if it was B2P?  We would have the total sales number, which is still impressive, without a lowered subscriber number to compare it to, and people wouldn't be as worried about the quality of possible update content, because if it looked like it sucked, they just wouldn't pay for it.

     

    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    It has very little to do with quality.  No matter how well done a given piece of content is, there is still a limited number of times you can repeat it and have it still be fun.  

     I am sorry but that is completely obsurd...

    According to you all content is created equally because its just a matter of time before you become sick of it...if that is the case, all MMORPGs are the same no matter what and there is no longer a point for anyone to ever discuss anything about MMOs again.

    That's not what I am saying at all.  The fact that some content takes more repetitions before it stops being fun doesn't change the reality that any particular piece of content, no matter how high the quality, will eventually stop being fun.  Which is why game companies should be charging for content, not charging for play time, because every additional hour spent repeating an hour's worth of content that you have already played is worth less than the hour before, and yet they keep charging us the same rate for it.

    You have no idea. 

  • SandboxSandbox SwedenPosts: 295Member
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by qombi

    It can't be saved because there is something missing from the game, the MMO part of it. Ever since they started dumbing MMO down and removing the multiplayer from them, they took it too far.

    This isn't a fair statement.  Go down a list of elements contained in major MMOs, and TOR either has (or will be getting in 1.3) every single one of them.  The main problem with TOR is that the subscription model is a load of crap.  WoW is a fluke.   A business model that charges people monthly while only giving them new content sporadically just isn't a good idea.  Seriously, how many conversations would there be about "saving" TOR if it was B2P?  We would have the total sales number, which is still impressive, without a lowered subscriber number to compare it to, and people wouldn't be as worried about the quality of possible update content, because if it looked like it sucked, they just wouldn't pay for it.

     

    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    It has very little to do with quality.  No matter how well done a given piece of content is, there is still a limited number of times you can repeat it and have it still be fun.  

     I am sorry but that is completely obsurd...

    According to you all content is created equally because its just a matter of time before you become sick of it...if that is the case, all MMORPGs are the same no matter what and there is no longer a point for anyone to ever discuss anything about MMOs again.

    That's not what I am saying at all.  The fact that some content takes more repetitions before it stops being fun doesn't change the reality that any particular piece of content, no matter how high the quality, will eventually stop being fun.  Which is why game companies should be charging for content, not charging for play time, because every additional hour spent repeating an hour's worth of content that you have already played is worth less than the hour before, and yet they keep charging us the same rate for it.

    I'm sorry; you don't seem to understand what drives a (good) mmo.

    Community is King.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Can it be saved? Sure.

    Is it commercially viable to be saved? Probably not.

    Dont count on any major reworking of the game, just more of the same content and F2P when subs drop below the target levels.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    This isn't a fair statement.  Go down a list of elements contained in major MMOs, and TOR either has (or will be getting in 1.3) every single one of them.  The main problem with TOR is that the subscription model is a load of crap.  WoW is a fluke.   A business model that charges people monthly while only giving them new content sporadically just isn't a good idea.  Seriously, how many conversations would there be about "saving" TOR if it was B2P?  We would have the total sales number, which is still impressive, without a lowered subscriber number to compare it to, and people wouldn't be as worried about the quality of possible update content, because if it looked like it sucked, they just wouldn't pay for it.

    It doesn't matter that they are going to add expected features in the future.  The fact is they made the mistake of shipping without them and permanently lost people because of it.  I wanted a group finder in January.  I couldn't care less about one now.

     

    I agree that the subscription model is their main mistake.  But there are plenty of others.

     

    Their stories are well and good for a single player game.  They really messed up by trying to make story the focus of a MMO.  This would have been forgiven if it didn't have a sub.

     

    It's a space MMO without multiplayer space combat.  They don't even have any such content announced.  That's a HUGE mistake.

     

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    And before someone brings up WoW, clearly there is some rampant mental illness among that fan base, because the same criticisms apply, and yet people keep paying.

     Guess the question for you would be how are WoW players different from any other MMO players? People played Everquest and Asherons call for some 5 YEARS before WoW came along.

    It isnt a question of being willing to pay for time, its a question of paying for quality. SWTOR has little real quality outside its storyline...most other MMOs at least try to provide a range of things to do to take up your time and right now, there is no sign at all that Bioware is going ot expand on that any time soon.

    WoW has aquired what i call "critical mass of players". Its exeption, not the rule (made stronger with every WoW clone released)

    Dont sweat so much about it, WoW aint some super quality game compared to other copies of it (LOTRO/Rift/SWTOR to be more precise), its old, everyone knows about it, its like ever-present.

    Its was a right game with right stuff at the right time. It blew EQs up. It brought to the masses what EQ failed to bring them (except for endgame which Blizz amitted wasnt their intention). If SWTOR released instead of WoW it would hover right there instead of it.

    SWTOR, otoh, is wrong game with wrong stuff at the wrong time (waaaay to late, WoW-like game ship has sailed long ago). It didnt right the wrongs of WoW, it didnt remove its flaws, it just copied WoW - and all its flaws along. They didnt even manage to copy crappy band-aids Blizz released for some of those flaws.

    Thats, imo, biggest offense and thats why people get bored of it - been there, done that, it still sucks the same way - dont want to pay 15/month for THAT. Again.

  • BlinkennBlinkenn TNPosts: 115Member Uncommon
    I think the only thing I would come back for would be if they put in x-wing/tie-fighter like space missions that I could fly with 3-4 of my friends and even make them have both pve & pvp type missions. Then upgrading my ship could play into that as well as it sorta does now. Even then though I'm not sure how long I'd stick around for the rest of the gear treadmill in regular play(as that is pretty much all u have at max level), as someone pointed out before, been there done that...
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Puyallup, WAPosts: 2,198Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    This isn't a fair statement.  Go down a list of elements contained in major MMOs, and TOR either has (or will be getting in 1.3) every single one of them.  The main problem with TOR is that the subscription model is a load of crap.  WoW is a fluke.   A business model that charges people monthly while only giving them new content sporadically just isn't a good idea.  Seriously, how many conversations would there be about "saving" TOR if it was B2P?  We would have the total sales number, which is still impressive, without a lowered subscriber number to compare it to, and people wouldn't be as worried about the quality of possible update content, because if it looked like it sucked, they just wouldn't pay for it.

    It doesn't matter that they are going to add expected features in the future.  The fact is they made the mistake of shipping without them and permanently lost people because of it.  I wanted a group finder in January.  I couldn't care less about one now.

     I agree that the subscription model is their main mistake.  But there are plenty of others.

     Their stories are well and good for a single player game.  They really messed up by trying to make story the focus of a MMO.  This would have been forgiven if it didn't have a sub.

     It's a space MMO without multiplayer space combat.  They don't even have any such content announced.  That's a HUGE mistake.

     

    I think it is overdramatic to say they have "permanently" lost players.  If they were to release an expansion, and everyone who played it was singing it's praises, most of them would at least try a free weekend to see how things had changed.  If when they tried it, it had all the things they felt were missing in the start, they would start playing.  As for the story focus, it wasn't a mistake; it was the only major thing they did right.  Without it, nobody would be talking about the game at all, because outside the story, even where the game isn't really bad, it isn't really good either.  It's like every other BioWare game, the best the non-narrative elements ever get is "good enough" to not distract from the story.  

    But your key statement here is correct; even from those who discount the importance of the story, it would have been forgiven if there was no sub.  Almost everything various groups find wrong with the game, even if it led to some of those groups not playing, would have been forgiven in the broader sense if it did not have a sub.  The standard people apply when it comes to subscription based games is astronomically higher than is applied to all other games.  I think this is for two primary reasons; the first being, like I said before, the game has never been made which, objectively speaking, actually deserves $15/month for what the game company is really providing to the gamer, and people are tired of years of paying for more than they are getting.  The second is that a bizarrely large number of people seem to think that the only way that a subscription game should ever be considered successful is if, on the day it launches, it has *at least* the same quality and quantity of content that WoW has seven years after it launched, which amounts to after 12 years of development and more available development dollars than most series of games have ever seen, let alone any other stand alone game.  Anything less than that, to them, is a failure.

    So I would argue that any game, no matter how good, is destined to be considered a failure by most of the MMO fanbase if it asks for a subscription, even when the exact same game would be considered a success by those same people if it did not have a sub.

     

    Originally posted by Sandbox
     

    I'm sorry; you don't seem to understand what drives a (good) mmo.

    Community is King.

    What drives a good game, any game, regardless of the genre, is providing fun to the player.  The average player has substantially more fun per dollar spent when paying for content than when paying for a limited access window.  And even if you are correct, and the most important contribution to fun in a MMO is community, which is more likely to destroy a community, over time?  The need to pay a monthly fee just to show up to the party, or letting anyone play who is willing to buy the box, with the only restriction being that you only get access to the newest content if you pay a fee specifically for that content?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Originally posted by Trol1
    Originally posted by AmbrosiaAmor
    There are some good ideas in this thread, but the thing is, will Arts of Electronica act fast enough to make some of those changes? Folks have been screaming for server merges for the past couple of months, but nothing has been done about this. Obviously announcing a server merge never looks good, but the problem is taking too long to make the move ends up being worse for the current players.
     
     
    This isn’t an issue just with SWTOR, but a recurring theme with most P2P MMO games, especially games post 2005. I’ve noticed that most companies wait almost 5-6 months between the time that (most) servers take a nose dive to actually taking action. Folks on the official forums and here as well have been asking since March for the merge to happen… with threads spiking up in the months of April and May.
     
     
    Ohlen recently said that the server merge was not an option and they wanted to do transfers first. The problem is that it may result in lopsided servers, and may end up making things worse in the long run. Considering that SWOTR is most likely the most expensive MMORPG out of the 600 or so listed here; I would not be surprised if they are trying everything else (in vain) due to the PR balancing act.
     
     
    They probably knew that folks would eventually be leaving the game (as it happens with every theme park MMO) but I am not sure if they expected it to be this fast. I mean the game is barely 6 months old and 90% of the servers labeled as light or normal feel like ghost towns (at least from the opinions of folks from various servers).
     
     
    From the article released here (which was posted in another thread):
     
     
    They have 214 servers with the "rough estimate" of having anywhere from 300-350 per, depending if it is PVE or PVP. This is much lower for servers labeled light or normal though. If they wanted to keep the servers at near full and have 3000 per, they would need to bring the servers down to 25 from 214. If they wanted to keep the servers around heavy or very heavy and have around 2000 per, they would need to bring the servers down to 37 from 214. That is if they were to do the server merge today. And this is from the ballpark figure of having around 75000 logins.
     
     
    I would not be surprised at all if E.A. waits till SWTOR reaches its 1st year anniversary to make the actual merge (or close to it). Meaning, they might make an announcement as early as October or November, with the actual merge taking place in December. The problem is, if they wait that long... things are going to get much worse. This isn't going away just simply by having transfers. I would be shocked if they would do it much sooner (like in the next month or two).

    You know I actually have a few issues with that report/Scorpienne's calculations:

    For one it's all averaged out. That bit about the callculations  "underestimates the peak population and overestimates the off-peak population." is actually underplaying things.

    You have to remember that all servers are regional (NA East, NA West, APAC, EU) and are further servicing potentially different timezones.

    Which becomes important for a very simple reason: you can't expect a server to run a strong population 24/7 if it's regional!

    Most servers will probably have something of only 6 hrs of peak time on a normal working day compared to 18 hrs of off-peak time (and even dead time: playing much at 4am?) which means that even if you had a huge population during peak, by averaging things out the sheer "mass" of "low-time" will leave you with a stunningly small number.

    So, the better number to calculate would be how many players there actually are during peak hours.

    Which is fairly complicated due to the different time zones: if you were to take an NA East server and set 6pm - midnight as peak, you may suddenly find yourself with a sudden boom at 7pm EDT due to now CDT getting in as well while 11pm CDT may see a sudden drop as EDT just hit midnight and hopped off.

    Another important point is the period these readings were taken in: it just happened to be the time when there were the GW2 BWE, the TSW BWE, maybe even the end of the D3 beta, definitely of course the release of D3.

    Some poster here tried to lay claim to how dead SWTOR is by pointing at the Xfire numbers for the last month.

    Which clearly show a number of extreme drops in hrs played over the period.

    Except funnily they can be matched with similar drops in other MMOs around the same dates.

    And even further: these dates can be confirmed to be event dates like GW2 BWE and TSW BWE.

    Scorpienne not only fails to point these factors out for her calculations, she actually doesn't specify how she is handling exceptions: server downtime will of course see a population of 0 but whether she asigns these hours a zero value i.e. ignores them or takes them into the averaging with a value of 0 population is unknown (obviously the first would be the more sensible choice but on the other hand potentially the less scientific correct one...)

    And once you've opened that can of worms the whole thing becomes more and more complex: weekends may obviously fall outside the 6/18 hrs structure as do public holidays, major non-MMO related events may cause shifts, etc.

    Now, what's even worse is that the data is just based on how many players are logged in.

    It doesn't give you details as to what these gamers are doing (PvE, PvP, AFK, etc) and which faction they belong to.

    Which rather obvious is also important if you actually want to paint a clear picture of what is going on on a server: It's a bit like saying Scotland has a large population by basing your calculations on the population of Glasgow.

    Having a peaktime server population of 3000 would help you little if for example 80% of these are playing PvP only while you on the other hand are looking for PvE grouping: it would still be a "ghost town".

    The same would be true if you as a Rep were looking for grouping for either PvE or PvP but 80% of the 3000 people on the server are Imps.

    So yeah, these numbers are potentially more dangerous as they may be scientifically correct but aren't presented in the right context...   

    TBH I would be surprised if the APAC servers arent practically deserted if not now, very soon. With the deliberate (dare I say completely stupid ?) late release in the southern hemisphere most people who were into SWTOR bought it online and rolled on NA servers. Yet another major mistake they made with SWTOR.

    I guess EA will be able to say "oh the same thing happened in APAC with WAR" the thing is WAR released same time here as everywhere else, TOR was delayed release.

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 319Member Uncommon

    There are some fundamental flaws with SWTOR.

    1) Its not a sandbox game

    2) PvP has no meaning, if you could control planets or zones for your faction to give them a buff then it would be more dynamic. Battle grounds get boring very quickly.

    3)Sith scorcer is over powered in pvp and everyman and his dog plays one in pvp, or did when I played.

    4) Space combat is not free form its placed on rails and set on a time scale. No pvp in space either.

    5) Instances for the quests and empty servers. I played on a RP server and it was dead after three weeks.

    6) Cant decorate your ship

    7) Crafting is horrible as you can buy all the crafted gear from merchants.

    The only good thing it has going for it is the fully voiced aspect and player story progression this was done very well, but over all the game was a fail before release. They basicaly took WoW and slapped SW over the game play mechanics and world.

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  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,143Member Uncommon

    I'm close to 50, played a lot of different games. Dropped many after few days of gameplay, some after months. I'm playing swtor since day 1 and really enjoying every single day I log into and playing all my alts, every single minute. Love SW lore and I feel like being in every day. Currently 4 lv. 50, 10 aproaching. Never played more polished, fun, complete, ... game. Never. Every single click and press on keyboard does just what I was expecting. Playing completely lagless. Only maybe wow has given me so much enjoyment. And Rift. Btw, only this 3 can be played on my not so bad computer on max settings very fluidly without lag. Also some other, like War and Aoc ... but lost interest later and to many bugs, lag, ..... But for now swtor is the king for me.

    Actually I realy do not understand why so much hathred and why hate comunitiy has build up so fast, faster then wow. I do not see any important bugs, team is reacting incredibly fast, 1.2 has brough in more then other games in years, they have fixed all that players were missing, .....

    But I agree is saddening to see all servers light loaded or being alone on Alderaan. :-(

    Saying this is true, I never pvp and I'm still far from end game. And space combat never got under my skin, tried 2 or 3 times then left permanently. So I can only guess maybe there is problem, not sure.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by daltanious

    I never pvp and I'm still far from end game.

    This part here is why you don't understand.

    The game is fine while you are leveling up and doing the story, its just like any other Bioware RPG. Its when you reach end game and PvP that the game starts to fall apart.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    Free 2 play... but the fact EA CEO pretty much said "yeah, screw the game it made us the money back at least" pretty much hints they might not even care enough to do that. Its possible it can be saved but in order for it to be really looked upon positively, a lot of changes would have to be made that are beyond simply touch ups on the finished product. There are a lot of deep seeded issues that require a rather large rework. As far as EA goes, they pretty much milked the consumer of the money they wanted, they will just run it dry as much as they can before likely ditching the whole game. Yes I know, very pessimistic, but considering how horrible a company EA is, its something I would expect.

  • TeknoBugTeknoBug Calgary, ABPosts: 2,156Member


    Originally posted by qombi
    It can't be saved because there is something missing from the game, the MMO part of it. Ever since they started dumbing MMO down and removing the multiplayer from them, they took it too far.
    ^ that's pretty much it, you can solo level in an MMO these days to max level, of course heroics and flashpoints are encouraged for faster levelling and gear pickups but all that can be done when you hit 50 and most true MMO'er will go from 1 to 50 in less than 2 weeks and then roll a new alt after. With the legacy addition in 1.2, it seems Bioware wants us to roll alts to take advantage of the legacy system which most of us are doing.


    There's almost no MMO left out there that had the group size that EQ and SWG had where you took 20 people to take on high end mobs, raid player bases or cities or just run events. The social aspect of SWTOR almost doesn't exist- besides the troll talk in /general chat on fleets.

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  • Half_Man_Half_ToonHalf_Man_Half_Toon NO, CAPosts: 156Member

    Reason why SWTOR Cost so much and it fail and is bleeding hard right now,    ok I did a little research first off is the engine, SWTOR is using HEROENGINE develop by bethesda, if I did my research right Bethesda and EA got together on licensing the engine to EA and EA gamble,  but EA is not dumb, when the SWTOR came out they charge allot of money to buy the collectors edition just incase SWTOR will be bad for a MMO to insure they wont lose to much money if the game fail becouse it was a big gamble, So now SWTOR is bleeding hard they currently have 1.3m subscribers currently,  Plans are already being put in place, EA us backing down and leaving, and Lucas Arts is a little mad becouse of the fail product and they will make a NEW STAR WARS Game, EA will try what it does best and go mainly on Gaming Consoles and give The Secret World as Shot at MMO greatness, while Lucas will Do New Star Wars and the Shocker will be that HEROENGINE and is a unsuselfull Engine Currently For MMO's wll be develop more for Future MMO's for Elder Scrolls, and Elder Scrolls wont Be Using HEROENGINE they will use something else and they have not announce it yet, The Biggest Problem with Elder Scrolls Online Right Now is that nobody knows what engine they will use or if they doing one for themselfs and they say they do what exciting new Feature Will Elder Scrolls Online will have Becouse most of the stuff Elder Scrolls Online wants to do Guild Wars 2 is already doing, but at the same Time Guild Wars 2 has let a door Open for Elder Scrolls Online can do but not Much, Guild Wars 2 is the Future of gaming and will be the king for a long time only other will be Bethesda and Elder Scrolls Online if they can compete and suprice the world becouse they will need a spectaculer Game Engine To Beat Guild Wars 2 a already establish MMO Game Engine and Game IP. 

     

    I also suggest to all gamers of all Genres to Look More into What Game Engine and Developer is making the game and see if the game will be good or not and to new Game Developers, it takes a awsome game to develop a real good engine Bethesda Elder Scrolls did it is call HEROENGINE they started from the buttom and now they playing with the big boys and I just hope they can play with the MMO big boys :) love them both.

This discussion has been closed.