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Replace the responsibles Asap....500k+ lost subs and counting ? Bye Zoeller..

24

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  • MetentsoMetentso BarcelonaPosts: 1,436Member Common
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by MosesZD

     

    Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

     

    'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'  

    Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.

     

    This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:

     

    Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.

      

    Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.

     

    Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.

    lol what?

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Metentso
    Originally posted by Volkon Originally posted by MosesZD   Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...   'Decline in subs -- EA's soft sell of the their huge contraction:'   Prior-period ending subs - current period ending subs = delcine in subs.   1.7 million - 1.3 million = 400K.   This is what they want you to see.  Because it hides the truth of the churn.   What is actually going on:   Total quarterly loss in subscriptions:  Prior-period ending subs + new subs - current period ending subs = total quarterly loss in subs.    1.7 million + 500K new units - 1.3 million = 900K.   
    Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.   Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.
    lol what?


    It's 'wut', not 'what'. As in, "lol wut?" or "lolwut?". We're butchering math and the English language. Let's not stoop to butchering lol speak.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • mikahrmikahr ZagrebPosts: 1,066Member
    Originally posted by Volkon

    Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.

     

    Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.

    Yeah, you really showed him math and stuff.

    Do some more pls!

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon

    You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

    There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs.

    Also she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.

    Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.

     

     

  • rawfoxrawfox HamburgPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    ...

    1700K + 500K = 1750K

    mhm2 ..

     

     

     

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by erictlewis
    You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/usThere is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.  

    Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Cottondale, ALPosts: 3,026Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by erictlewis
    You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

     

    There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread.

    Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.

     

     

     



    Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.

     

    Go read the thread.  The are doing /who and have a spreadsheet set up on her guild forums and the have a lot of folks from different servers inputting info they are finding.   It is just not numbers pulled out of thin air.

  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member
    Originally posted by mindw0rk

    Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path.

    I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward

    me too

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mindw0rk
    Originally posted by Chrome1980
    Originally posted by mindw0rk

    Full loot pvp..lolz

    Lol or not but full loot was always big part of TES series. But nooo, they cant do it since its too risky and WoW doesnt have one. Better to play safe...

    TES is a single player games so how the hell full loot was only exclusively big part of TES? every single player game has full loot.

    /facepalm.

    In Skyrim from any humanoid you loot everything he wears, weapons that he actually used and other stuff that he could carry. 

    Remind me how many single player games have this kind of loot system

    It's not equivalent to full loot PvP because you can do it but can't have it done to you, at least unless they changed it so that when you die and reload the game you would lose every item, weapon and armor you were carrying. They could make an MMO where you can kill humanoid NPCs and loot everything without having PvP at all and would still be in line with the elder scrolls games (or at least with skyrim that's the only one I've played).

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • ZekiahZekiah Aurora, COPosts: 2,499Member

    The game design is faulty, can't change that.

    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Rekindle
    Originally posted by mindw0rk Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path. I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward
    me too


    You might see some experiments, but you wouldn't see big experiments. No AAA studios would touch the genre. Mortal Online, Darkfall, Dominus (closed), etc. is what you'd see.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • L0C0ManL0C0Man Puerto OrdazPosts: 1,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Portland

    Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team.

    The "money givers" should do that as fast as possible because with the current marketing, design and developement responsibles they have people that all go into the wrong direction and in addition dont even see that. These responsibles fail completly  to accept reality and that they have already lost more than 500k++ sub´s.

    This game needs fresh meat on the top of the leading positions, they current leading persons are already burned out and blind, not realizing the reality and that they better take part in the team some stairs lower.

    This game is good and can be turned into a cash cow, even an 18 year old student would know better what to do to safe this game..

     

    My guess is that the current loss isnt 400k anymore its more like 600k-800k+ considering that BW already fires some persons.

    In the company i work for , the consquences would be 100% clear... i would dare to say that our lead employees would take their hats and leave by themselfs....

    A quick question, purely out of curiosity. You say that even an 18 year old student would know what to do to save the game and turn it into a cash cow... but from what I've read most of the complains are based in inherent design choices that couldn't really be fixed without a more or less massive rewrite of the game.

    So in your opinion, what can be done to do exactly that, to bring back a big bulk of the people that left the game, and without alienating and losing the people that are still enjoying the game and paying to play it, and that doesn't involve a complete rewrite of the game that could take years and millions of dollars to do?.

    What can men do against such reckless hate?

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon

    [mod edit]

    It puzzles me even today that logic, best practises and consumer focus are still left cold at the table.   Ego, pride and mismanagement are the forefront of these boneheads.  The sad fact is the people pissing this management down the drain earn more money than circa 80% of the population in the world.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by erictlewis
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by erictlewis You guys want to see the math then you should look at this site,  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us   There is a thread in swtor forums the lady running it is a mathematician.  She thinks there is 700-800 k subs with only 76k players online at one time 10% of the total population.  I disagree somewhat.  I think the total population is about 500k with 30% online at one time.  Either way you look at it 76k spread out over 214 servers is not good, and they are still bleeding subs. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=449144&goto=newpostAlso she Paige made it to this article about subs  http://www.shacknews.com/article/73961/report-average-old-republic-server-has-less-than-350-players   same lady running the thread. Anyway it is bad news for swtor,  There is no way they have 1.3 million active subs based on all that math. Like I said I suspect 500k and dropping.      
    Being a mathematician doesn't give her any special insight into how many people are actually logged into each server. If she is going from the server's load to the number of people logged in, she is creating numbers out of the aether to do it.  
    Go read the thread.  The are doing /who and have a spreadsheet set up on her guild forums and the have a lot of folks from different servers inputting info they are finding.   It is just not numbers pulled out of thin air.


    Yes it is. Unless she has some sort of inside track into what's happening in the servers, she is getting anecdotal information, and then making up additional information to get subscriber numbers. Just because it's "Math" doesn't make it correct. If she really is a mathematician, as in that's her job, she knows this.

    This doesn't mean she's wrong, it just means the methods she's using involves making up information to get a number.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ZippyZippy NY, NYPosts: 1,412Member

    Tor is already dead.

     

    Tor does not have 1.3 million subs, it does not have 1 million subs, it does not even have 500k subs.  It is likely 200-300k subs left.

    Take a look at Tor status and look at the servers left.

    In NA ToR has

    1 medium pop server

    3 lightpop servers

    6 Very light servers

    1  Nearly dead servers

    113 Dead servers

     

    In Europe Tor has:

    2  Light servers

    1 Very light server

    3 almost dead servers

    39 Dead Servers

     

    Overall that is:

    1 Medium pop server

    5 light servers

    7 Very Light servers

    4 Almost Dead servers

    152 Dead Servers

    Tor has 11 NA servers left and 6 Euroo servers left 4 of which will be officially dead servers in the next week.  Essentially ToR is dead.  It may have more than 300k subs but it does not have 300k people playing thats pretty much for sure.  In another month at the current rate of decline ToR will be down to 3-4 viable servers.

  • ZagavaVonnZagavaVonn Akron, OHPosts: 249Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by MosesZD

     

    Sigh....   You guys are so not accountants...     And it's kind of cute...   But then it's the war of correcting perceptions...

     

    Last time I did "accountant" stuff, 1700K + 500K = 1750K, - 1300 K = 450K.

     

    Before you crap on other people's math knowledge you need to learn 2 math first.

     

    EA and BioWare are going to hre you in about 10 seconds if you can keep doing math like that image

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones


    Yes it is. Unless she has some sort of inside track into what's happening in the servers, she is getting anecdotal information, and then making up additional information to get subscriber numbers. Just because it's "Math" doesn't make it correct. If she really is a mathematician, as in that's her job, she knows this.

    This doesn't mean she's wrong, it just means the methods she's using involves making up information to get a number.

    They do have an inside track into what's happening in the servers. Any idiot can log in, and see how many players are in each zone for the server. Does it account for every last person? Of course not, but it gets you pretty damned close.

    Face it. She's using the numbers provided by the game itself, to generate a report on those same numbers for the game itself. Doesn't get more scientific than that. It's objective data, and math. Unless the majority of players are either always on their ship, or a warzone (which btw has slow Q times most of the time), their numbers are going to reflect the population fairly accurately. As with any averaged data, it's not perfect, but it gives a good ballpark.

    Do you honestly think an 'official' report on populations released by EA is going to be more accurate? The saying 'statistics don't lie, but you can lie w/ statistics' comes to mind..

  • TyvolusTyvolus Charlotte, NCPosts: 190Member


    Originally posted by mindw0rk
    Originally posted by Chrome1980 Originally posted by mindw0rk Honestly I dont feel sorry for ToR. Bioware had all the power and resources to make a huge splash in MMO genre. And what we've got? Another "same old shit" theme park? Now TES Online going same path. I want all those big companies who choose cloned template  for their big MMOs to fail miserably. Maybe then we'll see some good experiments and genre moving forward
    TES has more in common with GW2 and has no resemblance to SWTOR. I have no idea from where you got the idea that TES is goign the same path.
    From gameinformer article. Hotbars, target combat, ToRish cartoony graphics, lackluster crafting, no full loot in PvP, no sandbox elements.


    With the exception of original EQ I only play PvP servers in MMOs. Full loot PvP is NOT A GOOD IDEA for any game that hopes to be even semi-mainstream.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    Yeah the design team needs to be fired. They failed hard, and it will cost in money and customer opinion.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • musicmannmusicmann port allen, LAPosts: 1,107Member

    Before this turns into another bean counter thread, in my opinion, TOR was never meant to be this long term mmo game. It was never really built for that to be honest. This has been said countless times, but TOR is nothing more than a SPRPG with coop features. It was designed to make a splash from using the SW IP with pre-sales and just enough content for the first 3 months. PVP was a tacked on system and that reared it's ugly head from day one. The game itself was just a really bad attempt at making a online game from the get go and since it being a SW game, it will take a little bit more time to sink because of the over zealous SW fans that just crave any game that uses that IP. It's almost june, and you can already see what Diablo 3 has done to this game. Once TSW release's it wil have even more of a negative effect on this title. A bit further up the road when GW2 and WOW's MOP hit's it will be nothing more than a dead carcuss at the bottom of the gaming ocean.

     

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    I'm getting a kinda "deja vu" feeling here...

     

    The last time a Starwars game started losing subs at an alarming rate, it resulted in a "complete overhaul of the game mechanics".

     

    They called it the "New Game Experience", or NGE.

     

    The playerbase loved it. Or not.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    I'm getting a kinda "deja vu" feeling here... The last time a Starwars game started losing subs at an alarming rate, it resulted in a "complete overhaul of the game mechanics". They called it the "New Game Experience", or NGE. The playerbase loved it. Or not.

    Well, apparently they love it now that it's gone.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by lizardbones Yes it is. Unless she has some sort of inside track into what's happening in the servers, she is getting anecdotal information, and then making up additional information to get subscriber numbers. Just because it's "Math" doesn't make it correct. If she really is a mathematician, as in that's her job, she knows this. This doesn't mean she's wrong, it just means the methods she's using involves making up information to get a number.
    They do have an inside track into what's happening in the servers. Any idiot can log in, and see how many players are in each zone for the server. Does it account for every last person? Of course not, but it gets you pretty damned close.

    Face it. She's using the numbers provided by the game itself, to generate a report on those same numbers for the game itself. Doesn't get more scientific than that. It's objective data, and math. Unless the majority of players are either always on their ship, or a warzone (which btw has slow Q times most of the time), their numbers are going to reflect the population fairly accurately. As with any averaged data, it's not perfect, but it gives a good ballpark.

    Do you honestly think an 'official' report on populations released by EA is going to be more accurate? The saying 'statistics don't lie, but you can lie w/ statistics' comes to mind..




    That's not an inside track. She's making up numbers. She can call it "estimating" or "calculating", but she's making up numbers.

    It gets a lot more scientific than that, because "science" involves actually proving what you're talking about. She can't (and by extension, neither can you). So it's not science. It's really fancy guesswork.

    Again, if she's a mathematician, as in that's her job, she knows this.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • GoromhirGoromhir portland, ORPosts: 292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by L0C0Man
    Originally posted by Portland

    Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team.

    The "money givers" should do that as fast as possible because with the current marketing, design and developement responsibles they have people that all go into the wrong direction and in addition dont even see that. These responsibles fail completly  to accept reality and that they have already lost more than 500k++ sub´s.

    This game needs fresh meat on the top of the leading positions, they current leading persons are already burned out and blind, not realizing the reality and that they better take part in the team some stairs lower.

    This game is good and can be turned into a cash cow, even an 18 year old student would know better what to do to safe this game..

     

    My guess is that the current loss isnt 400k anymore its more like 600k-800k+ considering that BW already fires some persons.

    In the company i work for , the consquences would be 100% clear... i would dare to say that our lead employees would take their hats and leave by themselfs....

    A quick question, purely out of curiosity. You say that even an 18 year old student would know what to do to save the game and turn it into a cash cow... but from what I've read most of the complains are based in inherent design choices that couldn't really be fixed without a more or less massive rewrite of the game.

    So in your opinion, what can be done to do exactly that, to bring back a big bulk of the people that left the game, and without alienating and losing the people that are still enjoying the game and paying to play it, and that doesn't involve a complete rewrite of the game that could take years and millions of dollars to do?.

    1st sorry for my bad grammar, no native english here sorry. :)

    I dont have to list all my suggestions again, i did that on the SWTOR forum and my posting got locked then deleted weeks ago. I posted some of my suggestions and complaints here on mmorpg.com

    + The Nerfing after PvP babies whine has to stop, it affects PvE and thats not ok.

    + 2 builds for everyone like in city of heroes

    + Global friends like CoH has. people play so many alts that its impossible to remember them all.

    + Better quest rewards

    + a Mission terminal like Anarchy Online has with selectable rewards and random missions

    + more content on all planets, random NPC camp spawns with Boss´s like in RIFT

    + Better Tank classes with high resist rates instead of the squishy Tanks we have

    + Rework of most advanced classes (chained skills etc etc)

    + Faster travel, direct landing with my Ship on a planet instead of zoming 3 times before i can start to have fun

    + Better companions, more options like  ASSIST, Guard, Stay, Hunt

    + Improved companions, they are all squishy and dieing to fast after level 30

    + a better Galactic trade center with a Skill and Stat Filter

    + Remove this strange Star War part from the game, i never used this childish spaceship war.

    + Allow to skip NPC cutscenes to get the quests faster

    + Mark heroic quests on NPCs so that we dont have to watch the whole cutscene before we know its a heroic

    + remove unneeded skills from all classes and replace them with usefull stuff

    + bring back the old 6% crit and dmg increase from adv. skill. 3% is just a joke

    + all in all Un-Nerf the complete 1.2 skill trahs they did to our chars.

    + and and and and and and

     

    guys i could write until tommorow morning, i think all the suggestions are made from many players already.....

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • Trol1Trol1 Kissimmee, FLPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by Portland

    Yes, thats what i want, the main  $cash$ investors of SWTOR should replace the complete lead staff of SWTOR´s marketing and design team.

    ...

    And there was me thinking that somebody would come up with the brilliant idea of having BW/EA hire a few squads (well, I guess actually an army-sized taskforce) and hit every single person who has cancelled their subscription to SWTOR, corral them all, and ship them off to slave away in some 3rd world mines digging for coal and diamonds and amber and whatnot.

    Because: NEWSFLASH: the ones responsible are the ones who have cancelled their subscription!

    Unless I'm mistaken there is still something like free will - unless I signed that away by signing SWTOR's EULA but somehow I doubt it...

    So it is not BW/EA who are responsible for clicking the "cancel" button, it's the subscriber.

    Yeah yeah, of course: "but it is BW/EA with their shitty game, their horrible marketing, etc. etc. who have made the subscriber leave"

    Again, wrong: it is the subscriber who has made a judgment call based on how he perceives the situation to be.

    It's "I think the game is bad" not "the game is bad"... but of course as the the customer is always right, the "I think the game is bad" must mean "the game is bad".

    Jeez...

    Anyhow, Portland, I love how in one sentence you claim that an 18 year old student would know how to save the game while in the next sentence you are making calls based on information that gives you (and everybody else) very little details.

    Unless you are telling me that there is a universal "save everything" formula that you've been aware of since you were 18 (and student), or that you are only 17 (or 18 and not yet student) now, yeah, I don't know the logic is failing in your statement...

    But okay, here is a hint for you to chew on: BW has a number of locations across the world.

    Supposedly there are 2 that are dedicated to SWTOR: Austin and Galway.

    If BW really was that panicy about SWTOR and its numbers, and actually already button everything up to get ready for the sinking of the ship, why would you layoff 100 out of ? There was an estimate number of 800 given for the full workforce that had worked on SWTOR (including voice actors) on 4 different continents.

    Going with that number BW would just have laidoff 1/8th of the SWTOR crew... though with taking out the voice actors, internal rotation within BW/EA, and that Galway is home to 200 ppl supporting SWTOR, well, let's say at best there may have been 500 ppl at BioWare Austion - hey, people in this thread love throwing out funky numbers, don't mind if I do the same.

    So BioWare has just kicked 1/5th of their Austin stuff... and yet they have not touched anybody in Galway?

    Anybody else feels that this logic seems to be a bit off?

    I mean wouldn't you try to save as much money as possible and in turn try to cut the fat wherever possible? Including Galway?

    Could it be that your 18 year old student was just a bit too American and therefore failed to see past the border of the USA?

    Also, there has already been word that

    A spokesman released the following statement:

    “BioWare has restructured its studio in Austin today. Of the employees impacted, some will be able to join other projects within EA, others will leave the company. These are very difficult decisions, but it allows us to focus our staff to maintain and grow Star Wars: The Old Republic,”

    “BioWare Austin remains a large and important part of BioWare and EA, working with other studios around the world to continue to deliver a high-quality service and exciting new content for Star Wars: The Old Republic.”  ?http://ugrgaming.com/2012/05/24/bioware-austin-layoffs/ )( 

    http://ugrgaming.com/2012/05/24/bioware-austin-layoffs/ 

    The part I'd stress is working with other studios around the world to continue to deliver a high-quality service and exciting new content for Star Wars: The Old Republic

    Especially after seeing that BW Edmonton is actually offer positions for Character, Concept, Environment artists and programmers, especially for the SW franchise!

    I mean with the base material BW now has for SWTOR, it seems a bit like "Honey, do we still need to live right next to the hardware store now that you've bought that huge tool box? Isn't it enough to know there is a hardware store in town just in case you need something that's not in the tool box?"

    Anyhow, I would rather leave the running of SWTOR to the guys at BioWare than to some 18 year old student...

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